Apache Geode incubation

[Dor Ben Dov <do...@amdocs.com>]

Hi, 
General speaking, what is the status of geode incubation in apache at the moment, when will it be switched to Apache TLP  ? 

Dor

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Re: Apache Geode incubation

[William Markito <wm...@pivotal.io>]

Thanks a lot Niall and Roman for your thoughtful comments!  It's really
great to read all this and see where we are as a project!!



On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Greg Chase <gc...@pivotal.io> wrote:
> >
> >> The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the
> >> Incubator program.
> >>
> >> However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release
> of
> >> Geode 1.0 GA.
> >>
> >
> > Getting the mechanics of releases right and showing the IPMC that the
> > project understand how to do that is important. What I particularly liked
> > about this projects 2nd (M2) release was not just the +1 votes, but the
> > qualifications that accompanied those votes ("I checked the sigs", "I
> built
> > & ran the tests" etc) - I see that and it gives me confidence that this
> is
> > not a rubber stamping exercise, but the project members are exercising
> > their responsibilities with care & attention. In terms of meeting the
> > graduation criteria, geode will almost certainly have ticked that box in
> > terms of graduation with another release. Obviously users place great
> > importance and judge releases on labels such as "milestone", "beta" or
> "GA"
> > etc - but from an ASF perspective these are not relevant as "quality of
> > release" is judged on different criteria (licensing, process etc) and by
> > those criteria theres no difference between an M1 or a GA release. From
> > that perspective, my opinion is that geode is doing a great job and will
> > probably have nailed it with the upcoming M3 release.
> >
> > From what I see, geode has got all its legal ducks in a row (code grants,
> > source headers, license compatibility) and so the last and main
> graduation
> > criteria it needs to meet relate to community[1]. IMO this is the most
> > difficult (and important) of all the criteria, its also more subjective
> to
> > judge and from a project that entered from a single company the hardest
> to
> > satisfy. From what I see on the mailing list, this is a great community
> and
> > meets the "openness" criteria - its a welcoming place, people
> > discuss/disagree and come to a consensus in the way that the ASF expects.
> > The one question I have is "are all the discussions/decisions being
> brought
> > to this mailing list?" - as an observer, it looks to me like that is
> > happening - but only the project members can confirm that. If the answer
> is
> > yes, then thats another tick in the box. New committers have been voted
> in
> > and (AIUI) this is not just from Pivotal, but other "legally independent"
> > people, so growing the community is also met. Lastly is the "diversity"
> > question and this is probably the hardest to give a definitive answer.
> The
> > IPMC seems to have moved from the prescriptive criteria laid out in the
> > link below to a more judgement based approach and it would be a good idea
> > to discuss this with your mentors and/or sound out the wider IPMC on how
> > geode can meet this criteria. Obviously the more new independent people
> you
> > recruit, the better for this - but would be good to know how near or far
> > you are from meeting that. The one thing I would say is that alot of
> people
> > were put on the initial incubator proposal (70+ I believe) and I would
> > recommend reviewing that when you decide to go for graduation and
> removing
> > anyone who has not been active (easy enough to vote them back in later if
> > they start contributing) as I'm sure that will help with the balance as
> > well as reflecting reality.
>
> Niall, thanks a million for your extremely thoughtful reply. With my
> mentor hat on,
> I wholeheartedly agree with all the points you made. I really do think
> the community
> is on a trajectory to graduate relatively soon.
>
> Given that, now would be a perfect time to start bringing up concerns
> and suggestions
> along the lines of what you've mentioned in your last sentence.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>



-- 

~/William

Re: Apache Geode incubation

[Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Niall Pemberton
> <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Greg Chase <gc...@pivotal.io> wrote:
> >
> >> The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the
> >> Incubator program.
> >>
> >> However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release
> of
> >> Geode 1.0 GA.
> >>
> >
> > Getting the mechanics of releases right and showing the IPMC that the
> > project understand how to do that is important. What I particularly liked
> > about this projects 2nd (M2) release was not just the +1 votes, but the
> > qualifications that accompanied those votes ("I checked the sigs", "I
> built
> > & ran the tests" etc) - I see that and it gives me confidence that this
> is
> > not a rubber stamping exercise, but the project members are exercising
> > their responsibilities with care & attention. In terms of meeting the
> > graduation criteria, geode will almost certainly have ticked that box in
> > terms of graduation with another release. Obviously users place great
> > importance and judge releases on labels such as "milestone", "beta" or
> "GA"
> > etc - but from an ASF perspective these are not relevant as "quality of
> > release" is judged on different criteria (licensing, process etc) and by
> > those criteria theres no difference between an M1 or a GA release. From
> > that perspective, my opinion is that geode is doing a great job and will
> > probably have nailed it with the upcoming M3 release.
> >
> > From what I see, geode has got all its legal ducks in a row (code grants,
> > source headers, license compatibility) and so the last and main
> graduation
> > criteria it needs to meet relate to community[1]. IMO this is the most
> > difficult (and important) of all the criteria, its also more subjective
> to
> > judge and from a project that entered from a single company the hardest
> to
> > satisfy. From what I see on the mailing list, this is a great community
> and
> > meets the "openness" criteria - its a welcoming place, people
> > discuss/disagree and come to a consensus in the way that the ASF expects.
> > The one question I have is "are all the discussions/decisions being
> brought
> > to this mailing list?" - as an observer, it looks to me like that is
> > happening - but only the project members can confirm that. If the answer
> is
> > yes, then thats another tick in the box. New committers have been voted
> in
> > and (AIUI) this is not just from Pivotal, but other "legally independent"
> > people, so growing the community is also met. Lastly is the "diversity"
> > question and this is probably the hardest to give a definitive answer.
> The
> > IPMC seems to have moved from the prescriptive criteria laid out in the
> > link below to a more judgement based approach and it would be a good idea
> > to discuss this with your mentors and/or sound out the wider IPMC on how
> > geode can meet this criteria. Obviously the more new independent people
> you
> > recruit, the better for this - but would be good to know how near or far
> > you are from meeting that. The one thing I would say is that alot of
> people
> > were put on the initial incubator proposal (70+ I believe) and I would
> > recommend reviewing that when you decide to go for graduation and
> removing
> > anyone who has not been active (easy enough to vote them back in later if
> > they start contributing) as I'm sure that will help with the balance as
> > well as reflecting reality.
>
> Niall, thanks a million for your extremely thoughtful reply. With my
> mentor hat on,
> I wholeheartedly agree with all the points you made. I really do think
> the community
> is on a trajectory to graduate relatively soon.
>

Yes we need to get this lot kicked out of the incubator and self-governing
as a TLP :)

Given that, now would be a perfect time to start bringing up concerns
> and suggestions
> along the lines of what you've mentioned in your last sentence.
>

Reflecting on this, I think the last sentence I wrote "...removing
anyone..." could come across a bit harsh and be misleading. On a TLP there
are both "committer" and "PMC member" roles[1]. Giving commit is solely
within the remit of the PMC and there is no need to take that away from
anyone. The board and the resolution to create a new TLP is only concerned
with PMC members and so I would suggest putting forward active people on
the proposed PMC when it comes to putting together a resolution to
graduate. Probably the best way to do this is (when the time comes) to ask
people who wants to be on the PMC and let that group self select - which I
would guess would pretty much be the active people.

Niall

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles


>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>

Re: Apache Geode incubation

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Niall Pemberton
<ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Greg Chase <gc...@pivotal.io> wrote:
>
>> The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the
>> Incubator program.
>>
>> However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release of
>> Geode 1.0 GA.
>>
>
> Getting the mechanics of releases right and showing the IPMC that the
> project understand how to do that is important. What I particularly liked
> about this projects 2nd (M2) release was not just the +1 votes, but the
> qualifications that accompanied those votes ("I checked the sigs", "I built
> & ran the tests" etc) - I see that and it gives me confidence that this is
> not a rubber stamping exercise, but the project members are exercising
> their responsibilities with care & attention. In terms of meeting the
> graduation criteria, geode will almost certainly have ticked that box in
> terms of graduation with another release. Obviously users place great
> importance and judge releases on labels such as "milestone", "beta" or "GA"
> etc - but from an ASF perspective these are not relevant as "quality of
> release" is judged on different criteria (licensing, process etc) and by
> those criteria theres no difference between an M1 or a GA release. From
> that perspective, my opinion is that geode is doing a great job and will
> probably have nailed it with the upcoming M3 release.
>
> From what I see, geode has got all its legal ducks in a row (code grants,
> source headers, license compatibility) and so the last and main graduation
> criteria it needs to meet relate to community[1]. IMO this is the most
> difficult (and important) of all the criteria, its also more subjective to
> judge and from a project that entered from a single company the hardest to
> satisfy. From what I see on the mailing list, this is a great community and
> meets the "openness" criteria - its a welcoming place, people
> discuss/disagree and come to a consensus in the way that the ASF expects.
> The one question I have is "are all the discussions/decisions being brought
> to this mailing list?" - as an observer, it looks to me like that is
> happening - but only the project members can confirm that. If the answer is
> yes, then thats another tick in the box. New committers have been voted in
> and (AIUI) this is not just from Pivotal, but other "legally independent"
> people, so growing the community is also met. Lastly is the "diversity"
> question and this is probably the hardest to give a definitive answer. The
> IPMC seems to have moved from the prescriptive criteria laid out in the
> link below to a more judgement based approach and it would be a good idea
> to discuss this with your mentors and/or sound out the wider IPMC on how
> geode can meet this criteria. Obviously the more new independent people you
> recruit, the better for this - but would be good to know how near or far
> you are from meeting that. The one thing I would say is that alot of people
> were put on the initial incubator proposal (70+ I believe) and I would
> recommend reviewing that when you decide to go for graduation and removing
> anyone who has not been active (easy enough to vote them back in later if
> they start contributing) as I'm sure that will help with the balance as
> well as reflecting reality.

Niall, thanks a million for your extremely thoughtful reply. With my
mentor hat on,
I wholeheartedly agree with all the points you made. I really do think
the community
is on a trajectory to graduate relatively soon.

Given that, now would be a perfect time to start bringing up concerns
and suggestions
along the lines of what you've mentioned in your last sentence.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: Apache Geode incubation

[Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Greg Chase <gc...@pivotal.io> wrote:

> The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the
> Incubator program.
>
> However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release of
> Geode 1.0 GA.
>

Getting the mechanics of releases right and showing the IPMC that the
project understand how to do that is important. What I particularly liked
about this projects 2nd (M2) release was not just the +1 votes, but the
qualifications that accompanied those votes ("I checked the sigs", "I built
& ran the tests" etc) - I see that and it gives me confidence that this is
not a rubber stamping exercise, but the project members are exercising
their responsibilities with care & attention. In terms of meeting the
graduation criteria, geode will almost certainly have ticked that box in
terms of graduation with another release. Obviously users place great
importance and judge releases on labels such as "milestone", "beta" or "GA"
etc - but from an ASF perspective these are not relevant as "quality of
release" is judged on different criteria (licensing, process etc) and by
those criteria theres no difference between an M1 or a GA release. From
that perspective, my opinion is that geode is doing a great job and will
probably have nailed it with the upcoming M3 release.

From what I see, geode has got all its legal ducks in a row (code grants,
source headers, license compatibility) and so the last and main graduation
criteria it needs to meet relate to community[1]. IMO this is the most
difficult (and important) of all the criteria, its also more subjective to
judge and from a project that entered from a single company the hardest to
satisfy. From what I see on the mailing list, this is a great community and
meets the "openness" criteria - its a welcoming place, people
discuss/disagree and come to a consensus in the way that the ASF expects.
The one question I have is "are all the discussions/decisions being brought
to this mailing list?" - as an observer, it looks to me like that is
happening - but only the project members can confirm that. If the answer is
yes, then thats another tick in the box. New committers have been voted in
and (AIUI) this is not just from Pivotal, but other "legally independent"
people, so growing the community is also met. Lastly is the "diversity"
question and this is probably the hardest to give a definitive answer. The
IPMC seems to have moved from the prescriptive criteria laid out in the
link below to a more judgement based approach and it would be a good idea
to discuss this with your mentors and/or sound out the wider IPMC on how
geode can meet this criteria. Obviously the more new independent people you
recruit, the better for this - but would be good to know how near or far
you are from meeting that. The one thing I would say is that alot of people
were put on the initial incubator proposal (70+ I believe) and I would
recommend reviewing that when you decide to go for graduation and removing
anyone who has not been active (easy enough to vote them back in later if
they start contributing) as I'm sure that will help with the balance as
well as reflecting reality.

Niall

[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community



> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Dor Ben Dov <do...@amdocs.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > General speaking, what is the status of geode incubation in apache at
> the moment, when will it be switched to Apache TLP  ?
> >
> > Dor
> >
> > This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and
> confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
> > you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
>

RE: Apache Geode incubation

[Dor Ben Dov <do...@amdocs.com>]

Thanks Greg.
Dor

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Chase [mailto:gchase@pivotal.io] 
Sent: יום ג 21 יוני 2016 17:13
To: dev@geode.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Geode incubation

The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the Incubator program.

However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release of Geode 1.0 GA.

This email encrypted by tiny buttons & fat thumbs, beta voice recognition, and autocorrect on my iPhone.

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Dor Ben Dov <do...@amdocs.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> General speaking, what is the status of geode incubation in apache at the moment, when will it be switched to Apache TLP  ? 
> 
> Dor
> 
> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and 
> confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement, you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp

This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp

Re: Apache Geode incubation

[Greg Chase <gc...@pivotal.io>]

The community is of course thinking about it. That is the point of the Incubator program.

However, I imagine we will be asking about graduation after the release of Geode 1.0 GA.

This email encrypted by tiny buttons & fat thumbs, beta voice recognition, and autocorrect on my iPhone.

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Dor Ben Dov <do...@amdocs.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> General speaking, what is the status of geode incubation in apache at the moment, when will it be switched to Apache TLP  ? 
> 
> Dor
> 
> This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement,
> you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp