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[GitHub] [spark] maropu opened a new pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
maropu opened a new pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368
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### What changes were proposed in this pull request?
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This PR targets at updating the k8s document in the primary branch/branch-3.0;
BEFORE:
```
The Kubernetes scheduler is currently experimental. In future versions, there may be behavioral changes around
configuration, container images and entrypoints.
```
AFTER:
```
The Kubernetes scheduler is currently experimental. The most basic parts are getting stable, but Dynamic
Resource Allocation and External Shuffle Service need to be available before we officially announce GA for it.
```
This update comes from a thread in the spark-dev mailing list: http://apache-spark-developers-list.1001551.n3.nabble.com/spark-on-k8s-is-still-experimental-td29942.html
### Why are the changes needed?
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To make users understood more correctly about the current development status of the k8s scheduler.
### Does this PR introduce _any_ user-facing change?
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<img width="899" alt="Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 11 06 18" src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/692303/89482476-f6179280-d7d4-11ea-8135-8099f9c7a3f5.png">
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[GitHub] [spark] maropu commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
maropu commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670255634
> SPARK-27963 Allow dynamic allocation without a shuffle service.
Thanks for the info, @dongjoon-hyun . I see and I referred to [the other ticket](https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-24432) and [the document statement](https://github.com/apache/spark/blame/master/docs/running-on-kubernetes.md#L491-L495). But, as you said, the current statement doesn't match it. I will checki it again and update it.
> I'd wonder, what actionable difference would this make, to declare it still partly experimental?...
Thanks for the comment, @srowen. Yea, this statement update doesn't gurantee anything about behaivour/configuration stability... But, I think it is a bit weird that the docment 2.3.x and 3.0.x have the same description about the development status. So, I thought it is worth updating it according to the current situation (I need to consider more about how to write it though...).
> Hi, I am not absolutely sure where and when it was decided, that we need to wait for External shuffle service, for Spark on k8s to be GA, can anyone help me with the discussion link? So far, It has been stated as if already a fact.
Any link to the discussion described in the mailing list, @holdenk ?
Probably, she refered to the discussion @dongjoon-hyun [described above](https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r9db328c667a2e4ac6c874dbdc41d3b20f33e0c71cb8992c9bc407789%40%3Cdev.spark.apache.org%3E)? I'm still not sure that we have a general consensus about k8s GA though, do you know something about it, @ScrapCodes ? (I roughly looked around the mailing list logs and jira/PR, but I couldn't find it though...)
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[GitHub] [spark] SparkQA commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669700347
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669649763
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669718763
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669647396
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[GitHub] [spark] ScrapCodes commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ScrapCodes commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669736037
Hi, I am not absolutely sure where and when it was decided, that we need to wait for External shuffle service, for Spark on k8s to be GA, can anyone help me with the discussion link? So far, It has been stated as if already a fact.
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[GitHub] [spark] maropu commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
maropu commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669649873
cc: @holdenk @srowen
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[GitHub] [spark] SparkQA commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Remove the words "experimental" in the k8s document
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-671320499
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[GitHub] [spark] srowen commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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srowen commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670594791
let me ask this: what is the problem with marking it not-experimental? compared to perhaps people questioning using it in its current state? I don't know that its state is going to change much soon anyway. I'd just unmark it, I think.
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[GitHub] [spark] holdenk commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
holdenk commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669659227
Personally I'd drop the "getting" and I'd drop "External Shuffle Service" (I think non-expiremental dynamic resource allocation with or without external shuffle is good enough). These are just my own opinions though.
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[GitHub] [spark] maropu commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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maropu commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-671314004
Thanks for the comments, all. Looks like all the (current) discussion participants agree that we will announce GA with as-is status in the next feature release (3.1.0). So, I think its okay to we can simply drop the statement now in the doc from the primary branch.
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[GitHub] [spark] dongjoon-hyun commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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dongjoon-hyun commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670966586
I also have the same opinion with @srowen . We can declare K8s GA in Apache Spark 3.1.0 with AS-IS status and add new features more. I don't think any new feature blocks K8s GA.
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[GitHub] [spark] dongjoon-hyun commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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dongjoon-hyun commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670234261
cc @felixcheung because this was discussed at dev mailing list "Apache Spark 3.1 Feature Expectation (Dec. 2020)" and he wanted some for K8s GA.
- https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r9db328c667a2e4ac6c874dbdc41d3b20f33e0c71cb8992c9bc407789%40%3Cdev.spark.apache.org%3E
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URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670256106
We don't have a consensus indeed. That's the problem here. :) @maropu
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[GitHub] [spark] maropu commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Remove the words "experimental" in the k8s document
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maropu commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-671651791
Thanks, @dongjoon-hyun and all!
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[GitHub] [spark] srowen commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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srowen commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670003118
I don't know either. I'd wonder, what actionable difference would this make, to declare it still partly experimental? is there any work coming in the foreseeable future on it? is it dangerous to use in production? will an API possibly change? If we're basically not warning people away from using it as is with the usual understanding that stuff can have minor bugs, then, maybe no value in making this ill-defined statement at all, and avoid confusion.
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[GitHub] [spark] dongjoon-hyun edited a comment on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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dongjoon-hyun edited a comment on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670234261
cc @felixcheung because this was discussed at dev mailing list "Apache Spark 3.1 Feature Expectation (Dec. 2020)" and he wanted some for K8s GA.
- https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r9db328c667a2e4ac6c874dbdc41d3b20f33e0c71cb8992c9bc407789%40%3Cdev.spark.apache.org%3E
Technically, what he asked is "shuffle service refactoring to support pluggable storage engines".
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I am in favour of marking spark on K8s GA too. The feature does not block it's GA status.
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[GitHub] [spark] holdenk commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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holdenk commented on pull request #29368:
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Sounds good to me 👍
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ScrapCodes commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-670346087
I had say, it should be discussed, we would like to hear from the users. Do we have enough confidence, for example if it is already in use at some company X at a production scale. Would that give us enough confidence.
It is possible, that after external shuffle service is developed, the API may need to change. But, since we do not expose anything in K8s as API, it should not be a problem. Even if we do, we can keep the APIs as experimental, instead of declaring that "Spark on K8s is experimental and not ready for production, until ..."
Today, I see "so many" people (AFAIK) still using standalone mode on K8s for deploying spark on k8s. It is true, we may be missing a feature or two. But, all of this should be discussed and we should have consensus about when to GA.
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[GitHub] [spark] maropu commented on pull request #29368: [SPARK-32554][K8S][DOCS] Update the k8s document according to the current development status
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maropu commented on pull request #29368:
URL: https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/29368#issuecomment-669695780
> Personally I'd drop the "getting" and I'd drop "External Shuffle Service" (I think non-expiremental dynamic resource allocation with or without external shuffle is good enough). These are just my own opinions though.
Thanks for the comment and the suggestion sounds resonable to me, so I updated it.
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Looks good !
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I am in favour of marking it GA too. The feature does not block it's GA status.
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