Where are we going?

[Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>]

Hi all

nowadays Gump has become a tool that really only gets used by Tomcat. As
long as it is useful for Tomcat this is probably fine. But is this the
future of this project? Honestly, I haven't got any other vision to
share.

I wonder whether this in any way affects Gump's position of an Apache
TLP. We've always been a special kind of project, more like an
infrastructure service than a project that creates releases.

Cheers

        Stefan

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Re: Where are we going?

[Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>]

On 2020-03-07, Mark Thomas wrote:

> On 07/03/2020 15:35, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>> Hi all

>> nowadays Gump has become a tool that really only gets used by Tomcat. As
>> long as it is useful for Tomcat this is probably fine. But is this the
>> future of this project? Honestly, I haven't got any other vision to
>> share.

> It is definitely useful for Tomcat and indirectly for its dependencies.
> We caught a regression in OpenSSL master that would otherwise have gone
> unnoticed.

This is great.

>> I wonder whether this in any way affects Gump's position of an Apache
>> TLP. We've always been a special kind of project, more like an
>> infrastructure service than a project that creates releases.

> Interesting question.

> As I see it the options are:

> a) continue as is
> b) hand over to infra to maintain
> c) hand over to the Tomcat PMC to maintain

> I think b) is the least likely. I don't think infra would accept it. I
> might be wrong. I'll ask.

I had similar thoughts myself but dismissed your option b immediately.

> If the board is happy with a) and we have 3 PMC members then the status
> quo is probably the least work.

Where the 3 PMC member rule really only is there so the PMC can cut a
release - which we've never done and probably will never do.

> c) probably means retiring the Gump project but with the slight twist
> that ongoing maintenance of the Gump svn repo is handed over to the
> Tomcat PMC rather than it being made read-only. I don't know what the
> Tomcat community would say to that. I'll ask.

Thank you.

> I don't think we need to be in any great rush to decide what to do. I
> think we have the 3 PMC members (we can always do a roll-call on
> private@ to confirm that if we want) so the status quo is OK.

Yes, this is true.

Cheers

        Stefan

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Re: Where are we going?

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

On 07/03/2020 15:35, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> nowadays Gump has become a tool that really only gets used by Tomcat. As
> long as it is useful for Tomcat this is probably fine. But is this the
> future of this project? Honestly, I haven't got any other vision to
> share.

It is definitely useful for Tomcat and indirectly for its dependencies.
We caught a regression in OpenSSL master that would otherwise have gone
unnoticed.

The nature of the VM Gump runs on also seems to be good at catching
various concurrency issues.

To me, at least, it is clear that keeping vmgump running is in the best
interest of the Tomcat project.

I don't have a vision that would expand Gump and/or breath new life into
the project. Maybe something will emerge with Jakarta EE and a need to
check interoperability between various projects? I don't know. Seems
like a bit of a stretch if I am honest.

> I wonder whether this in any way affects Gump's position of an Apache
> TLP. We've always been a special kind of project, more like an
> infrastructure service than a project that creates releases.

Interesting question.

As I see it the options are:

a) continue as is
b) hand over to infra to maintain
c) hand over to the Tomcat PMC to maintain

I think b) is the least likely. I don't think infra would accept it. I
might be wrong. I'll ask.

If the board is happy with a) and we have 3 PMC members then the status
quo is probably the least work.

c) probably means retiring the Gump project but with the slight twist
that ongoing maintenance of the Gump svn repo is handed over to the
Tomcat PMC rather than it being made read-only. I don't know what the
Tomcat community would say to that. I'll ask.

I don't think we need to be in any great rush to decide what to do. I
think we have the 3 PMC members (we can always do a roll-call on
private@ to confirm that if we want) so the status quo is OK.

Cheers,

Mark

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Re: Where are we going?

[Konstantin Kolinko <kn...@gmail.com>]

сб, 7 мар. 2020 г. в 18:35, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi all
>
> nowadays Gump has become a tool that really only gets used by Tomcat. As
> long as it is useful for Tomcat this is probably fine. But is this the
> future of this project? Honestly, I haven't got any other vision to
> share.
>
> I wonder whether this in any way affects Gump's position of an Apache
> TLP. We've always been a special kind of project, more like an
> infrastructure service than a project that creates releases.


I asked some people at conferences whether they know about Apache Gump
and they don't. It is a bit frustrating.

The task of building the latest version of your project against the
latest versions of other projects does exist, and people are using
some tools, but not this one. (I was talking about some project built
by Maven, so the built was probably managed via Jenkins.)

It may help to actually make a release of Gump.

As of now, I am not really sure how to install the tool, what are its
requirements. How to start with some small configuration that does not
require 9 hours for a build. I can find that from the source code,
with my experience, but it is not easy. A lot of documentation is
outdated.

Best regards,
Konstantin Kolinko

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