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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com> on 2008/02/26 17:23:01 UTC
Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
Would anyone be willing to share their experiences dealing with the html/CSS and Java development life-cycles? I am looking for folks willing to share their experiences with the design/html side of application development with Wicket. I am investigating how to create a toolbox of UI elements (maybe in something like Dreamweaver or Netbeans) that would allow a designer to put together a prototype for customers that could then be exactly recreated with Wicket. (This means having code in the prototype exactly like the code created by a Wicket component, e.g. code created by a table or list view component.) We would like to write CSS that creates a consistent look and feel across all our internal applications. We would also like to be able to produce prototypes that look like the end product. Is this concept a good idea? Is there a better way to get consistency between a prototype and the production app?
This list may not be the best place for this conversation so I am willing to take it off-line if necessary. Any assistance or direction to documentation, etc would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Elizabeth Hill
Senior Application Developer / IA
Management Information Systems
SAS Institute Inc.
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RE: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
Posted by Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>.
Martin,
Thanks for your help!
Elizabeth
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.makundi@koodaripalvelut.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:55 PM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
For what it is worth, our middle road is just stripping plain-old
mock-up HTML/JS/CSS into wicket templates as soon as possible. After
you have laid out the foundation, throw away the static mock-ups. It
is pretty fast to iterate designs implemented in wicket as soon as you
have fixed most of the layout and page flow.
**
Martin
2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> Martin,
>
> Thanks for the response and for helping me clarify my thinking a bit. Our shop has just decided to move to Wicket for our internal web application development. Previously, we have developed semi-working prototypes for our customers using HTML/JS/CSS. When the customer was satisfied with the prototype we would turn over pages to Java developers to be written using Struts, etc. Often the application that was created looked and sometimes acted different from the prototype. We would like to reduce this 'morphing' if possible. I am curious how other folks prototype their applications. Do folks prototype at all? If they do prototype, how do they move from prototype to Java development? How do they handle modification of the web pages during and after Java implementation?
>
> Part of the reason that I was looking for experiences, is that I came to the same conclusion that you did... this could be a HUGE project. Really what I want is a way to create HTML -only components that mimic Wicket created code so that I can make sure the CSS is created correctly to assure consistent look and feel. These could that the form of code snippets stored in a library, etc. I don't believe my management would be up for letting me create a full-fledged IDE. I would love to find a middle of the road alternative.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.makundi@koodaripalvelut.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:41 AM
> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
>
> You mean you will be
> 1. developing the applications with Wicket but
> 2. prototyping them using something else?
>
> I would say that it is a whole another application development to
> create such a prototyping toolbox. Why? Because it is a lot of work.
> The wicket HTML templates are far from mock-up applications. You would
> need to somehow strip the mock-up applications' functionality to get
> the wicket templates.
>
> If you are doing a lot of this, it might be useful to develop a tool.
> However, it is pretty easy to strip a mock-up html application into
> wicket templates by hand.. It would be pretty nifty, though, to have
> such a Wicket IDE where you could define data sources for tables etc.
> and replace these with dummy data to generate static mock-up pages.
>
> But I would still say it is a huge project :)
>
> **
> Martin
>
> 2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> > Would anyone be willing to share their experiences dealing with the html/CSS and Java development life-cycles? I am looking for folks willing to share their experiences with the design/html side of application development with Wicket. I am investigating how to create a toolbox of UI elements (maybe in something like Dreamweaver or Netbeans) that would allow a designer to put together a prototype for customers that could then be exactly recreated with Wicket. (This means having code in the prototype exactly like the code created by a Wicket component, e.g. code created by a table or list view component.) We would like to write CSS that creates a consistent look and feel across all our internal applications. We would also like to be able to produce prototypes that look like the end product. Is this concept a good idea? Is there a better way to get consistency between a prototype and the production app?
> >
> > This list may not be the best place for this conversation so I am willing to take it off-line if necessary. Any assistance or direction to documentation, etc would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Elizabeth Hill
> > Senior Application Developer / IA
> > Management Information Systems
> > SAS Institute Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
Posted by Martin Makundi <ma...@koodaripalvelut.com>.
For what it is worth, our middle road is just stripping plain-old
mock-up HTML/JS/CSS into wicket templates as soon as possible. After
you have laid out the foundation, throw away the static mock-ups. It
is pretty fast to iterate designs implemented in wicket as soon as you
have fixed most of the layout and page flow.
**
Martin
2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> Martin,
>
> Thanks for the response and for helping me clarify my thinking a bit. Our shop has just decided to move to Wicket for our internal web application development. Previously, we have developed semi-working prototypes for our customers using HTML/JS/CSS. When the customer was satisfied with the prototype we would turn over pages to Java developers to be written using Struts, etc. Often the application that was created looked and sometimes acted different from the prototype. We would like to reduce this 'morphing' if possible. I am curious how other folks prototype their applications. Do folks prototype at all? If they do prototype, how do they move from prototype to Java development? How do they handle modification of the web pages during and after Java implementation?
>
> Part of the reason that I was looking for experiences, is that I came to the same conclusion that you did... this could be a HUGE project. Really what I want is a way to create HTML -only components that mimic Wicket created code so that I can make sure the CSS is created correctly to assure consistent look and feel. These could that the form of code snippets stored in a library, etc. I don't believe my management would be up for letting me create a full-fledged IDE. I would love to find a middle of the road alternative.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.makundi@koodaripalvelut.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:41 AM
> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
>
> You mean you will be
> 1. developing the applications with Wicket but
> 2. prototyping them using something else?
>
> I would say that it is a whole another application development to
> create such a prototyping toolbox. Why? Because it is a lot of work.
> The wicket HTML templates are far from mock-up applications. You would
> need to somehow strip the mock-up applications' functionality to get
> the wicket templates.
>
> If you are doing a lot of this, it might be useful to develop a tool.
> However, it is pretty easy to strip a mock-up html application into
> wicket templates by hand.. It would be pretty nifty, though, to have
> such a Wicket IDE where you could define data sources for tables etc.
> and replace these with dummy data to generate static mock-up pages.
>
> But I would still say it is a huge project :)
>
> **
> Martin
>
> 2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> > Would anyone be willing to share their experiences dealing with the html/CSS and Java development life-cycles? I am looking for folks willing to share their experiences with the design/html side of application development with Wicket. I am investigating how to create a toolbox of UI elements (maybe in something like Dreamweaver or Netbeans) that would allow a designer to put together a prototype for customers that could then be exactly recreated with Wicket. (This means having code in the prototype exactly like the code created by a Wicket component, e.g. code created by a table or list view component.) We would like to write CSS that creates a consistent look and feel across all our internal applications. We would also like to be able to produce prototypes that look like the end product. Is this concept a good idea? Is there a better way to get consistency between a prototype and the production app?
> >
> > This list may not be the best place for this conversation so I am willing to take it off-line if necessary. Any assistance or direction to documentation, etc would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Elizabeth Hill
> > Senior Application Developer / IA
> > Management Information Systems
> > SAS Institute Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
RE: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
Posted by Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>.
Martin,
Thanks for the response and for helping me clarify my thinking a bit. Our shop has just decided to move to Wicket for our internal web application development. Previously, we have developed semi-working prototypes for our customers using HTML/JS/CSS. When the customer was satisfied with the prototype we would turn over pages to Java developers to be written using Struts, etc. Often the application that was created looked and sometimes acted different from the prototype. We would like to reduce this 'morphing' if possible. I am curious how other folks prototype their applications. Do folks prototype at all? If they do prototype, how do they move from prototype to Java development? How do they handle modification of the web pages during and after Java implementation?
Part of the reason that I was looking for experiences, is that I came to the same conclusion that you did... this could be a HUGE project. Really what I want is a way to create HTML -only components that mimic Wicket created code so that I can make sure the CSS is created correctly to assure consistent look and feel. These could that the form of code snippets stored in a library, etc. I don't believe my management would be up for letting me create a full-fledged IDE. I would love to find a middle of the road alternative.
Thanks for your help!
Elizabeth
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.makundi@koodaripalvelut.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:41 AM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
You mean you will be
1. developing the applications with Wicket but
2. prototyping them using something else?
I would say that it is a whole another application development to
create such a prototyping toolbox. Why? Because it is a lot of work.
The wicket HTML templates are far from mock-up applications. You would
need to somehow strip the mock-up applications' functionality to get
the wicket templates.
If you are doing a lot of this, it might be useful to develop a tool.
However, it is pretty easy to strip a mock-up html application into
wicket templates by hand.. It would be pretty nifty, though, to have
such a Wicket IDE where you could define data sources for tables etc.
and replace these with dummy data to generate static mock-up pages.
But I would still say it is a huge project :)
**
Martin
2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> Would anyone be willing to share their experiences dealing with the html/CSS and Java development life-cycles? I am looking for folks willing to share their experiences with the design/html side of application development with Wicket. I am investigating how to create a toolbox of UI elements (maybe in something like Dreamweaver or Netbeans) that would allow a designer to put together a prototype for customers that could then be exactly recreated with Wicket. (This means having code in the prototype exactly like the code created by a Wicket component, e.g. code created by a table or list view component.) We would like to write CSS that creates a consistent look and feel across all our internal applications. We would also like to be able to produce prototypes that look like the end product. Is this concept a good idea? Is there a better way to get consistency between a prototype and the production app?
>
> This list may not be the best place for this conversation so I am willing to take it off-line if necessary. Any assistance or direction to documentation, etc would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Elizabeth Hill
> Senior Application Developer / IA
> Management Information Systems
> SAS Institute Inc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
Re: Newbie HTML/CSS and Java development questions
Posted by Martin Makundi <ma...@koodaripalvelut.com>.
You mean you will be
1. developing the applications with Wicket but
2. prototyping them using something else?
I would say that it is a whole another application development to
create such a prototyping toolbox. Why? Because it is a lot of work.
The wicket HTML templates are far from mock-up applications. You would
need to somehow strip the mock-up applications' functionality to get
the wicket templates.
If you are doing a lot of this, it might be useful to develop a tool.
However, it is pretty easy to strip a mock-up html application into
wicket templates by hand.. It would be pretty nifty, though, to have
such a Wicket IDE where you could define data sources for tables etc.
and replace these with dummy data to generate static mock-up pages.
But I would still say it is a huge project :)
**
Martin
2008/2/26, Elizabeth Hill <El...@sas.com>:
> Would anyone be willing to share their experiences dealing with the html/CSS and Java development life-cycles? I am looking for folks willing to share their experiences with the design/html side of application development with Wicket. I am investigating how to create a toolbox of UI elements (maybe in something like Dreamweaver or Netbeans) that would allow a designer to put together a prototype for customers that could then be exactly recreated with Wicket. (This means having code in the prototype exactly like the code created by a Wicket component, e.g. code created by a table or list view component.) We would like to write CSS that creates a consistent look and feel across all our internal applications. We would also like to be able to produce prototypes that look like the end product. Is this concept a good idea? Is there a better way to get consistency between a prototype and the production app?
>
> This list may not be the best place for this conversation so I am willing to take it off-line if necessary. Any assistance or direction to documentation, etc would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Elizabeth Hill
> Senior Application Developer / IA
> Management Information Systems
> SAS Institute Inc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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