RE: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>]

Hi moon,

I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems. However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs to be a separation between what the users want and backend implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.

There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing stuff, if I did:

1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA

2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which is a guess, at best, right now).

The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, so there is some inherent protection against trolls.

---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---

I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.

Those are my thoughts,
Marko

From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Hi Marko Galesic,

Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking involvement.

About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.

In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?

Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.

However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure out.

What do you think?

Thanks,
moon

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.

I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.

I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and Playstation): https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap

There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.

This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.

Thank you,
Marko Galesic

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Jongyoul Lee <jo...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

If you think the problem is too much information to end-users, How about
using label and filter in JIRA? If you're willing to manage some issues
from JIRA to Trello manually, I think it's easy for you to managing labels
and filters for end-users. And then, if you or someone shares that fileter
via mailing list, It's very good contribution for community, and end-users
vote some features for ease because JIRA already has a vote system and
registering a watchers and so on. they don't need to know a specific issue
number and check it manaually.

Regards,
JL

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Marko Galesic <
MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:

> DuyHai,
>
> That all makes sense. I’ve cc’d a co-worker that’s willing to help out so
> that I’m not a single point of failure on this effort. His name is Aleks.
>
> As for the second, I’m completely open to doing this through the community.
>
> Moon,
>
> What you've linked is fine. It uses JIRA, and, in some ways, is simpler
> than JIRA, but there is still too much information there for the end user.
>
> Here is my argument. End-users don't care about ticket numbers nor about
> categories like "Major", "Minor",  or "Bug". What they want is a high-mid
> level summary of what's there, the direction of the project, and the
> ability to be able to affect change. I doubt most customers of Windows want
> to know ticket numbers, or what category the feature they use falls into.
>
> Marko
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shaposhnik@gmail.com [mailto:shaposhnik@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
> Roman Shaposhnik
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:22 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
> Huge +1 to leveraging JIRA functionality here. Conveging contributors to
> the ASF projects web presence is usually very helpful.
>
> If you guys need any help with JIRA -- please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:19 PM, moon soo Lee <mo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think.
> > Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes
> > are transferred from Trello to JIRA.
> >
> > I agree on make end-user participation more easy.
> > However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to
> > be error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should
> > consider simpler solution first before we go complicated one.
> > Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns.
> >
> > I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board.
> > One example is
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510
> .
> > With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i
> > believe it helps end-user participation without introducing much
> complexity.
> >
> > Best,
> > moon
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <do...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for
> >> some reasons
> >>
> >> 1 Single Point Of Failure.
> >>
> >>  As you said yourself:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only
> >> take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within
> >> Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello."
> >>
> >> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello
> >> synchronization process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm
> >> not hoping for this of
> >> course) and are unavailable for a long time ?
> >>
> >> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache
> >> projects is to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a
> >> Single Point Of Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and
> >> JIRA can be automatized then it will be fine.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility
> >>
> >> I quote:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my
> >> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes,
> >> I would manually add those cards to Trello."
> >>
> >> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for
> >> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space,
> >> based on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are
> >> important, not by a single person. At least that is how I understood
> >> about community-led projects philosophy.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Duy Hai DOAN
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic
> >> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi moon,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
> >>> non-developers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go
> >>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote
> >>> on a card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding
> JIRA ticket.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only
> >>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g.
> >>> ZEPPELIN-35 is the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”),
> >>> the votes from that card would get linked to the votes in the
> >>> appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this would be a manual process,
> >>> but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be automated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will
> someone
> >>> manually add to Trello?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are
> >>> mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would
> >>> manually add those cards to Trello.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
> >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an
> >>> easier way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache
> account.
> >>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up
> >>> with Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who
> >>> specifically voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used
> >>> in part of the process of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other
> tool
> >>> that is easier than Trello for end-users?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would
> >>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the
> >>> history of ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use
> >>> JIRA for issue tracking and that it may have been an organic process
> >>> to get JIRA as a the de facto issue tracker for ASF.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make
> >>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also
> >>> solve the same problem.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however
> >>> that’s pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Good questions J.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Marko
> >>>
> >>> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
> >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in
> >>> Apache Zeppelin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to
> >>> use two separate issue tracker.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In my understanding, problem is,
> >>>
> >>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
> >>>
> >>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
> >>> non-developers.
> >>>
> >>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To me, It's not clear that
> >>>
> >>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
> >>>
> >>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone
> >>> manually add to Trello?
> >>>
> >>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
> >>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
> >>>
> >>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that
> >>> is easier than Trello for end-users?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My opinion is,
> >>>
> >>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy
> >>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve
> >>> the same problem.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> moon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic
> >>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Alexander,
> >>>
> >>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF
> >>> hosted JIRA, but together with it
> >>>
> >>> Yes
> >>>
> >>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's
> >>> feedback
> >>>
> >>> Yes
> >>>
> >>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to
> >>> the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> >>> developers to use it?
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the
> >>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello
> >>> to JIRA
> >>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development
> >>> + prioritization, then
> >>> the next step would be to open a thread on
> >>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create
> >>> the thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.
> >>>
> >>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member
> >>> of Trello will be able to vote.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also
> >>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA
> tickets.
> >>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA,
> >>> but developers may get information from end-users that way.
> >>>
> >>> Those are my thoughts,
> >>> Marko
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
> >>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in
> >>> Apache Zeppelin
> >>>
> >>> Guys,
> >>>
> >>> thank you for great suggestions!
> >>>
> >>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
> >>> JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a
> >>> tool for prioritizing user's feedback?
> >>>
> >>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to
> >>> the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> >>> developers to use it?
> >>>
> >>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can
> >>> not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler
> >>> and more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
> >>>
> >>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth
> >>> supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor
> >>> of making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody
> >>> volunteers to manage second one.
> >>>
> >>> What do you think?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic
> >>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >>> > Hello A B!
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the
> >>> > board’s voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello
> >>> > member in order to vote.
> >>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
> >>> > through Trello.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> >>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trel
> >>> > lo-b
> >>> > oard/
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Marko
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in
> >>> > Apache Zeppelin
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi guys!
> >>> >
> >>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would
> >>> > support it.
> >>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process
> >>> > to prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
> >>> > various JIRA
> >>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it
> >>> > before
> >>> > :)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
> >>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi moon,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two
> systems.
> >>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve
> >>> > what I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA
> >>> > and seem to be end users; however, I speculate that these are
> >>> > advanced users – edging on developers rather than purely data
> >>> > scientists. There needs to be a separation between what the users
> >>> > want and backend implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily
> >>> > tell the rendering engineer how to program a photo-realistic
> >>> > renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and be able
> >>> > to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at
> >>> > least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others.
> >>> > I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
> >>> > stuff, if I did:
> >>> >
> >>> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
> >>> >
> >>> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of
> the
> >>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant,
> >>> > which is a guess, at best, right now).
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would
> >>> > use the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
> >>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards
> >>> > are curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric
> >>> > project, so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board
> >>> > to JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become
> >>> > the de facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Those are my thoughts,
> >>> >
> >>> > Marko
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> >>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> >>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> >>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in
> >>> > Apache Zeppelin
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi Marko Galesic,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> >>> > involvement.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did
> >>> > nice job.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello
> >>> > board to get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and
> feedbacks. right?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely
> >>> > people who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
> >>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
> >>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with
> >>> > Apache community.
> >>> >
> >>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
> >>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be
> >>> > anything, we'll figure out.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > What do you think?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks,
> >>> >
> >>> > moon
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
> >>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi all,
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be
> >>> > willing to maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d
> >>> > be willing to maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in
> >>> > the community would market it to those who would use it (users).
> >>> > I’ll be sending this to my company’s data scientists. The
> >>> > administration of the board should be handled by somebody other than
> the users, however.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I’ve started one here:
> >>> > https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
> >>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and
> >>> > put them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass.
> >>> > I’m open to feedback + adding administrators since this is really
> >>> > a high level reflection of what already exists in the Apache
> Zeppelin JIRA.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
> >>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
> >>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently
> >>> > developed mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles
> >>> > that ship on Xbox and Playstation):
> >>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> >>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
> >>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would
> >>> > be implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board
> >>> > I’ve set up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account
> >>> > can vote). I’ve also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays
> >>> > inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only card tag right
> now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it
> >>> > also does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that
> >>> > need a ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” –
> >>> > there are very few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games
> >>> > has their own, internal ticket tracking system that is much more
> granular.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you,
> >>> >
> >>> > Marko Galesic
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>> Alexander.
> >>
> >>
> >
>



-- 
이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈
http://madeng.net

RE: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>]

DuyHai,

That all makes sense. I’ve cc’d a co-worker that’s willing to help out so that I’m not a single point of failure on this effort. His name is Aleks.

As for the second, I’m completely open to doing this through the community.

Moon,

What you've linked is fine. It uses JIRA, and, in some ways, is simpler than JIRA, but there is still too much information there for the end user. 

Here is my argument. End-users don't care about ticket numbers nor about categories like "Major", "Minor",  or "Bug". What they want is a high-mid level summary of what's there, the direction of the project, and the ability to be able to affect change. I doubt most customers of Windows want to know ticket numbers, or what category the feature they use falls into.

Marko

-----Original Message-----
From: shaposhnik@gmail.com [mailto:shaposhnik@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman Shaposhnik
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:22 PM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Huge +1 to leveraging JIRA functionality here. Conveging contributors to the ASF projects web presence is usually very helpful.

If you guys need any help with JIRA -- please let me know.

Thanks,
Roman.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:19 PM, moon soo Lee <mo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think.
> Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes 
> are transferred from Trello to JIRA.
>
> I agree on make end-user participation more easy.
> However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to 
> be error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should 
> consider simpler solution first before we go complicated one.
> Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns.
>
> I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board.
> One example is
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510.
> With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i 
> believe it helps end-user participation without introducing much complexity.
>
> Best,
> moon
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <do...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for 
>> some reasons
>>
>> 1 Single Point Of Failure.
>>
>>  As you said yourself:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only 
>> take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within 
>> Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello."
>>
>> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello 
>> synchronization process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm 
>> not hoping for this of
>> course) and are unavailable for a long time ?
>>
>> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache 
>> projects is to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a 
>> Single Point Of Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and 
>> JIRA can be automatized then it will be fine.
>>
>>
>> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility
>>
>> I quote:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my 
>> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, 
>> I would manually add those cards to Trello."
>>
>> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for 
>> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, 
>> based on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are 
>> important, not by a single person. At least that is how I understood 
>> about community-led projects philosophy.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Duy Hai DOAN
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic 
>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi moon,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
>>> non-developers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go 
>>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote 
>>> on a card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only 
>>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. 
>>> ZEPPELIN-35 is the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), 
>>> the votes from that card would get linked to the votes in the 
>>> appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this would be a manual process, 
>>> but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be automated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone
>>> manually add to Trello?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are 
>>> mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would 
>>> manually add those cards to Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
>>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an 
>>> easier way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account.
>>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up 
>>> with Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who 
>>> specifically voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used 
>>> in part of the process of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool
>>> that is easier than Trello for end-users?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would 
>>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the 
>>> history of ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use 
>>> JIRA for issue tracking and that it may have been an organic process 
>>> to get JIRA as a the de facto issue tracker for ASF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make
>>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also 
>>> solve the same problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however 
>>> that’s pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good questions J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marko
>>>
>>> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
>>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in 
>>> Apache Zeppelin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to 
>>> use two separate issue tracker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my understanding, problem is,
>>>
>>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
>>>
>>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for 
>>> non-developers.
>>>
>>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To me, It's not clear that
>>>
>>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>>
>>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone 
>>> manually add to Trello?
>>>
>>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not 
>>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>>
>>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that 
>>> is easier than Trello for end-users?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My opinion is,
>>>
>>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy 
>>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve 
>>> the same problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> moon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic 
>>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alexander,
>>>
>>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF 
>>> hosted JIRA, but together with it
>>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's 
>>> feedback
>>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to 
>>> the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project 
>>> developers to use it?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the 
>>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello 
>>> to JIRA
>>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development 
>>> + prioritization, then
>>> the next step would be to open a thread on 
>>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create 
>>> the thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.
>>>
>>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member 
>>> of Trello will be able to vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also 
>>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
>>>
>>>
>>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets.
>>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, 
>>> but developers may get information from end-users that way.
>>>
>>> Those are my thoughts,
>>> Marko
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
>>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in 
>>> Apache Zeppelin
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> thank you for great suggestions!
>>>
>>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted 
>>> JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a 
>>> tool for prioritizing user's feedback?
>>>
>>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to 
>>> the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project 
>>> developers to use it?
>>>
>>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can 
>>> not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler 
>>> and more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
>>>
>>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth 
>>> supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor 
>>> of making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody 
>>> volunteers to manage second one.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic 
>>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> > Hello A B!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the 
>>> > board’s voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello 
>>> > member in order to vote.
>>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account 
>>> > through Trello.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
>>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trel
>>> > lo-b
>>> > oard/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marko
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
>>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in 
>>> > Apache Zeppelin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi guys!
>>> >
>>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would 
>>> > support it.
>>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process 
>>> > to prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with 
>>> > various JIRA
>>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it 
>>> > before
>>> > :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic 
>>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi moon,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
>>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve 
>>> > what I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA 
>>> > and seem to be end users; however, I speculate that these are 
>>> > advanced users – edging on developers rather than purely data 
>>> > scientists. There needs to be a separation between what the users 
>>> > want and backend implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily 
>>> > tell the rendering engineer how to program a photo-realistic 
>>> > renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and be able 
>>> > to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at 
>>> > least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. 
>>> > I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing 
>>> > stuff, if I did:
>>> >
>>> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>>> >
>>> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
>>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, 
>>> > which is a guess, at best, right now).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would 
>>> > use the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an 
>>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards 
>>> > are curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric 
>>> > project, so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board 
>>> > to JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become 
>>> > the de facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Those are my thoughts,
>>> >
>>> > Marko
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
>>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
>>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in 
>>> > Apache Zeppelin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi Marko Galesic,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking 
>>> > involvement.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did 
>>> > nice job.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello 
>>> > board to get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely 
>>> > people who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for 
>>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin 
>>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with 
>>> > Apache community.
>>> >
>>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be 
>>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be 
>>> > anything, we'll figure out.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > What do you think?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > moon
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic 
>>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be 
>>> > willing to maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d 
>>> > be willing to maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in 
>>> > the community would market it to those who would use it (users). 
>>> > I’ll be sending this to my company’s data scientists. The 
>>> > administration of the board should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’ve started one here: 
>>> > https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
>>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and 
>>> > put them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. 
>>> > I’m open to feedback + adding administrators since this is really 
>>> > a high level reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their 
>>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content 
>>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently 
>>> > developed mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles 
>>> > that ship on Xbox and Playstation):
>>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, 
>>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card 
>>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would 
>>> > be implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board 
>>> > I’ve set up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account 
>>> > can vote). I’ve also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays 
>>> > inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it 
>>> > also does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that 
>>> > need a ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – 
>>> > there are very few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games 
>>> > has their own, internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> >
>>> > Marko Galesic
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Alexander.
>>
>>
>

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

Huge +1 to leveraging JIRA functionality here. Conveging
contributors to the ASF projects web presence is usually
very helpful.

If you guys need any help with JIRA -- please let me know.

Thanks,
Roman.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:19 PM, moon soo Lee <mo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think.
> Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes are
> transferred from Trello to JIRA.
>
> I agree on make end-user participation more easy.
> However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to be
> error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should consider
> simpler solution first before we go complicated one.
> Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns.
>
> I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board.
> One example is
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510.
> With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i believe
> it helps end-user participation without introducing much complexity.
>
> Best,
> moon
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <do...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some
>> reasons
>>
>> 1 Single Point Of Failure.
>>
>>  As you said yourself:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take
>> what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then,
>> yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello."
>>
>> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization
>> process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of
>> course) and are unavailable for a long time ?
>>
>> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is
>> to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of
>> Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized
>> then it will be fine.
>>
>>
>> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility
>>
>> I quote:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my
>> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I
>> would manually add those cards to Trello."
>>
>> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for
>> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based
>> on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important,
>> not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about
>> community-led projects philosophy.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Duy Hai DOAN
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic
>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi moon,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
>>> non-developers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go
>>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a
>>> card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only
>>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is the
>>> “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that card
>>> would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this
>>> would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be
>>> automated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone
>>> manually add to Trello?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid
>>> to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add
>>> those cards to Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
>>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier
>>> way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account.
>>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with
>>> Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically
>>> voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the process
>>> of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool
>>> that is easier than Trello for end-users?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would
>>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of
>>> ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue
>>> tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the
>>> de facto issue tracker for ASF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make
>>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the
>>> same problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s
>>> pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good questions J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marko
>>>
>>> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
>>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>>> Zeppelin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use
>>> two separate issue tracker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my understanding, problem is,
>>>
>>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
>>>
>>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
>>> non-developers.
>>>
>>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To me, It's not clear that
>>>
>>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>>
>>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually
>>> add to Trello?
>>>
>>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
>>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>>
>>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is
>>> easier than Trello for end-users?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My opinion is,
>>>
>>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy
>>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same
>>> problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> moon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic
>>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alexander,
>>>
>>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
>>> JIRA, but together with it
>>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's
>>> feedback
>>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
>>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers
>>> to use it?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the
>>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA
>>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then
>>> the next step would be to open a thread on
>>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create the
>>> thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.
>>>
>>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of
>>> Trello will be able to vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also
>>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
>>>
>>>
>>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets.
>>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but
>>> developers may get information from end-users that way.
>>>
>>> Those are my thoughts,
>>> Marko
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
>>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>>> Zeppelin
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> thank you for great suggestions!
>>>
>>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA,
>>> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for
>>> prioritizing user's feedback?
>>>
>>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
>>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers
>>> to use it?
>>>
>>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not
>>> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more
>>> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
>>>
>>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting
>>> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an
>>> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage second
>>> one.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic
>>> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> > Hello A B!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s
>>> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order
>>> > to vote.
>>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
>>> > through Trello.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
>>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
>>> > oard/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marko
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
>>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>>> > Zeppelin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi guys!
>>> >
>>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support
>>> > it.
>>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
>>> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
>>> > various JIRA
>>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
>>> > :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
>>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi moon,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
>>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what
>>> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem
>>> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users –
>>> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs
>>> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend
>>> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering
>>> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I
>>> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll
>>> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware
>>> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they
>>> > like the idea.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
>>> > stuff, if I did:
>>> >
>>> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>>> >
>>> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
>>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which
>>> > is a guess, at best, right now).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use
>>> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
>>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are
>>> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project,
>>> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to
>>> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
>>> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Those are my thoughts,
>>> >
>>> > Marko
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
>>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
>>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>>> > Zeppelin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi Marko Galesic,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
>>> > involvement.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice
>>> > job.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to
>>> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people
>>> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
>>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
>>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache
>>> > community.
>>> >
>>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
>>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be
>>> > anything, we'll figure out.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > What do you think?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > moon
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
>>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
>>> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
>>> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community
>>> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending
>>> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board
>>> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
>>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put
>>> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open
>>> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level
>>> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
>>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
>>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed
>>> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on
>>> > Xbox and Playstation):
>>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
>>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
>>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be
>>> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set
>>> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve
>>> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to
>>> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also
>>> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a
>>> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very
>>> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own,
>>> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> >
>>> > Marko Galesic
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Alexander.
>>
>>
>

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[moon soo Lee <mo...@apache.org>]

Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think.
Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes are
transferred from Trello to JIRA.

I agree on make end-user participation more easy.
However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to be
error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should consider
simpler solution first before we go complicated one.
Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns.

I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board.
One example is
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510.
With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i believe
it helps end-user participation without introducing much complexity.

Best,
moon

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <do...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some
> reasons
>
> 1 Single Point Of Failure.
>
>  As you said yourself:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take
> what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then,
> yes, *I would manually add those cards to Trello*."
>
> This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization
> process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of
> course) and are unavailable for a long time ?
>
> I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is
> to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of
> Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized
> then it will be fine.
>
>
> 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility
>
> I quote:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and *only take what in my
> opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin* and then, yes, I
> would manually add those cards to Trello."
>
> Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for
> Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based
> on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important,
> not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about
> community-led projects philosophy.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Duy Hai DOAN
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic <
> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi moon,
>>
>>
>>
>> -          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
>> non-developers.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go
>> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>
>>
>>
>> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a
>> card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>
>>
>>
>> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only
>> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is
>> the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that
>> card would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now,
>> this would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be
>> automated.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will
>> someone manually add to Trello?
>>
>>
>>
>> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid
>> to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add
>> those cards to Trello.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>
>>
>>
>> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier
>> way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account.
>> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with
>> Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically
>> voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the
>> process of feature prioritization - **not** replacing it.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool
>> that is easier than Trello for end-users?
>>
>>
>>
>> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would
>> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of
>> ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue
>> tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the
>> de facto issue tracker for ASF.
>>
>>
>>
>> -          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make
>> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the
>> same problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s
>> pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?
>>
>>
>>
>> Good questions J.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marko
>>
>> *From:* moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
>> *To:* users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>> Zeppelin
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use
>> two separate issue tracker.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my understanding, problem is,
>>
>> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
>>
>> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
>> non-developers.
>>
>> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>>
>>
>>
>> To me, It's not clear that
>>
>> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>>
>> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually
>> add to Trello?
>>
>> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
>> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>>
>> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is
>> easier than Trello for end-users?
>>
>>
>>
>> My opinion is,
>>
>> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy
>> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same
>> problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> moon
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic <
>> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
>>
>> Alexander,
>>
>> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
>> JIRA, but together with it
>>
>> Yes
>>
>> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's
>> feedback
>>
>> Yes
>>
>> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
>> developers to use it?
>>
>> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the
>> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA
>> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization,
>> then the next step would be to open a thread on
>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create the
>> thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.
>>
>> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of
>> Trello will be able to vote.
>>
>>
>> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also
>> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
>>
>>
>> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets.
>> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but
>> developers may get information from end-users that way.
>>
>> Those are my thoughts,
>> Marko
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
>> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>> Zeppelin
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> thank you for great suggestions!
>>
>> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA,
>> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for
>> prioritizing user's feedback?
>>
>> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
>> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
>> developers to use it?
>>
>> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not
>> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more
>> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
>>
>> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting
>> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an
>> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage
>> second one.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic <
>> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
>> > Hello A B!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s
>> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order
>> to vote.
>> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
>> > through Trello.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
>> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
>> > oard/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Marko
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>> > Zeppelin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi guys!
>> >
>> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support
>> it.
>> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
>> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
>> > various JIRA
>> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
>> > :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi moon,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
>> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what
>> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem
>> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users –
>> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs
>> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend
>> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering
>> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I
>> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll
>> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware
>> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they
>> like the idea.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
>> > stuff, if I did:
>> >
>> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>> >
>> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
>> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which
>> > is a guess, at best, right now).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use
>> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
>> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are
>> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project,
>> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to
>> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
>> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Those are my thoughts,
>> >
>> > Marko
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
>> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
>> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
>> > Zeppelin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Marko Galesic,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
>> > involvement.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice
>> job.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to
>> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people
>> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
>> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
>> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache
>> community.
>> >
>> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
>> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be
>> anything, we'll figure out.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > moon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
>> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
>> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
>> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community
>> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending
>> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board
>> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
>> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put
>> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open
>> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level
>> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
>> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
>> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed
>> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on
>> Xbox and Playstation):
>> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
>> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
>> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be
>> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set
>> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve
>> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to
>> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also
>> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a
>> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very
>> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own,
>> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Marko Galesic
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Kind regards,
>> Alexander.
>>
>
>

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[DuyHai Doan <do...@gmail.com>]

I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some
reasons

1 Single Point Of Failure.

 As you said yourself:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what
in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, *I
would manually add those cards to Trello*."

This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization
process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of
course) and are unavailable for a long time ?

I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is
to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of
Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized
then it will be fine.


2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility

I quote:  "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and *only take what in my
opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin* and then, yes, I
would manually add those cards to Trello."

Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for
Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based
on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important,
not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about
community-led projects philosophy.


Regards

Duy Hai DOAN

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic <
MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:

>  Hi moon,
>
>
>
> -          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
> non-developers.
>
>
>
> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go
> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.
>
>
>
> -          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>
>
>
> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a
> card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket.
>
>
>
> -          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>
>
>
> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only
> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is
> the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that
> card would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now,
> this would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be
> automated.
>
>
>
> -          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone
> manually add to Trello?
>
>
>
> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid
> to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add
> those cards to Trello.
>
>
>
> -          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not
> synchronized between trello and JIRA)
>
>
>
> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier
> way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account.
> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with
> Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically
> voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the
> process of feature prioritization - **not** replacing it.
>
>
>
> -          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool
> that is easier than Trello for end-users?
>
>
>
> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would
> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of
> ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue
> tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the
> de facto issue tracker for ASF.
>
>
>
> -          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make
> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the
> same problem.
>
>
>
> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s
> pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?
>
>
>
> Good questions J.
>
>
>
> Marko
>
> *From:* moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
> *To:* users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use two
> separate issue tracker.
>
>
>
> In my understanding, problem is,
>
> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.
>
>
>
> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
>
> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for
> non-developers.
>
> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.
>
>
>
> To me, It's not clear that
>
> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
>
> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually
> add to Trello?
>
> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not synchronized
> between trello and JIRA)
>
> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is
> easier than Trello for end-users?
>
>
>
> My opinion is,
>
> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy
> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same
> problem.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> moon
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic <
> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
>
> Alexander,
>
> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
> JIRA, but together with it
>
> Yes
>
> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's
> feedback
>
> Yes
>
> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> developers to use it?
>
> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the Trello
> board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA + to
> use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then the
> next step would be to open a thread on dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org.
> Alexander, do you want to create the thread or should I? I am willing to
> explain the idea to devs.
>
> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of
> Trello will be able to vote.
>
>
> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also happy
> to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
>
>
> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets.
> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but
> developers may get information from end-users that way.
>
> Those are my thoughts,
> Marko
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
> Guys,
>
> thank you for great suggestions!
>
> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA,
> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for
> prioritizing user's feedback?
>
> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> developers to use it?
>
> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not
> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more
> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
>
> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting
> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an
> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage
> second one.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic <
> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
> > Hello A B!
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s
> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order
> to vote.
> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
> > through Trello.
> >
> >
> >
> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
> > oard/
> >
> >
> >
> > Marko
> >
> >
> >
> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> > Zeppelin
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi guys!
> >
> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support
> it.
> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
> > various JIRA
> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi moon,
> >
> >
> >
> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what
> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem
> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users –
> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs
> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend
> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering
> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I
> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll
> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware
> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they
> like the idea.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
> > stuff, if I did:
> >
> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
> >
> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which
> > is a guess, at best, right now).
> >
> >
> >
> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use
> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are
> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project,
> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to
> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
> >
> >
> >
> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Those are my thoughts,
> >
> > Marko
> >
> >
> >
> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> > Zeppelin
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Marko Galesic,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> > involvement.
> >
> >
> >
> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice
> job.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to
> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people
> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache
> community.
> >
> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything,
> we'll figure out.
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > moon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community
> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending
> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board
> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put
> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open
> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level
> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed
> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox
> and Playstation):
> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
> >
> >
> >
> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be
> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set
> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve
> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to
> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
> >
> >
> >
> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also
> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a
> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very
> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own,
> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Marko Galesic
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Kind regards,
> Alexander.
>

RE: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>]

Hi moon,


-          Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for non-developers.

No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created.


-          And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.



No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket.



-          When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello



No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that card would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, this would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be automated.


-          How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually add to Trello?



My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add those cards to Trello.


-          Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not synchronized between trello and JIRA)

This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account. However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the process of feature prioritization - *not* replacing it.


-          What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is easier than Trello for end-users?



Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the de facto issue tracker for ASF.


-          Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same problem.

Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest?

Good questions ☺.

Marko
From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Hi,

I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use two separate issue tracker.

In my understanding, problem is,
* JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.

Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
* Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for non-developers.
* And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.

To me, It's not clear that
- When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
- How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually add to Trello?
- Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not synchronized between trello and JIRA)
- What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is easier than Trello for end-users?

My opinion is,
Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same problem.

Thanks,
moon

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
Alexander,

-- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, but together with it

Yes

-- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's feedback

Yes

-- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org> as, I assume, you want project developers to use it?

I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then the next step would be to open a thread on dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org>. Alexander, do you want to create the thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.

The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of Trello will be able to vote.


I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.


The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets. Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but developers may get information from end-users that way.

Those are my thoughts,
Marko

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com<ma...@nflabs.com>]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Guys,

thank you for great suggestions!

Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's feedback?

Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org> as, I assume, you want project developers to use it?

Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.

Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage second one.

What do you think?



On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
> Hello A B!
>
>
>
> I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s
> voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order to vote.
> You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
> through Trello.
>
>
>
> I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
> oard/
>
>
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi guys!
>
> I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support it.
> So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>
>
>
> I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
> prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
> various JIRA
> workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
> :)
>
>
>
> Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
> <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi moon,
>
>
>
> I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what
> I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem
> to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users –
> edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs
> to be a separation between what the users want and backend
> implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering
> engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I
> want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll
> keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware
> of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.
>
>
>
> There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
> stuff, if I did:
>
> 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>
> 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which
> is a guess, at best, right now).
>
>
>
> The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use
> the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
> indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are
> curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project,
> so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
>
>
>
> ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to
> JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>
>
>
> I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
> facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>
>
>
> Those are my thoughts,
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org<ma...@apache.org>]
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org>
> Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi Marko Galesic,
>
>
>
> Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> involvement.
>
>
>
> About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.
>
>
>
> In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to
> get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>
>
>
> Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people
> who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>
>
>
> However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
> different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
> directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
>
> It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
> discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure out.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> moon
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
> <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
> maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
> maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community
> would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending
> this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board
> should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>
>
>
> I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
> I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put
> them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open
> to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level
> reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>
>
>
> I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
> Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
> creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed
> mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and Playstation):
> https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>
>
>
> There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
> tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be
> implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set
> up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve
> also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to
> become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>
>
>
> This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also
> does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a
> ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very
> few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own,
> internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marko Galesic
>
>
>
>



--
--
Kind regards,
Alexander.

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[moon soo Lee <mo...@apache.org>]

Hi,

I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use two
separate issue tracker.

In my understanding, problem is,
* JIRA is not friendly to non-developers.

Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is,
* Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for non-developers.
* And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello.

To me, It's not clear that
- When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello
- How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually
add to Trello?
- Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not synchronized
between trello and JIRA)
- What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is
easier than Trello for end-users?

My opinion is,
Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy instruction
for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same problem.

Thanks,
moon

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic <
MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:

> Alexander,
>
> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
> JIRA, but together with it
>
> Yes
>
> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's
> feedback
>
> Yes
>
> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> developers to use it?
>
> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the Trello
> board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA + to
> use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then the
> next step would be to open a thread on dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org.
> Alexander, do you want to create the thread or should I? I am willing to
> explain the idea to devs.
>
> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of
> Trello will be able to vote.
>
>
> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also happy
> to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.
>
>
> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets.
> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but
> developers may get information from end-users that way.
>
> Those are my thoughts,
> Marko
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
> Guys,
>
> thank you for great suggestions!
>
> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA,
> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for
> prioritizing user's feedback?
>
> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
> dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
> developers to use it?
>
> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not
> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more
> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.
>
> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting
> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an
> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage
> second one.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic <
> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
> > Hello A B!
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s
> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order
> to vote.
> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account
> > through Trello.
> >
> >
> >
> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
> > oard/
> >
> >
> >
> > Marko
> >
> >
> >
> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> > Zeppelin
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi guys!
> >
> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support
> it.
> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with
> > various JIRA
> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi moon,
> >
> >
> >
> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what
> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem
> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users –
> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs
> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend
> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering
> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I
> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll
> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware
> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they
> like the idea.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing
> > stuff, if I did:
> >
> > 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
> >
> > 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which
> > is a guess, at best, right now).
> >
> >
> >
> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use
> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an
> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are
> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project,
> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to
> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
> >
> >
> >
> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Those are my thoughts,
> >
> > Marko
> >
> >
> >
> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> > Zeppelin
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Marko Galesic,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> > involvement.
> >
> >
> >
> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice
> job.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to
> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people
> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin
> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache
> community.
> >
> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be
> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything,
> we'll figure out.
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > moon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
> > <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community
> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending
> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board
> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin
> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put
> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open
> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level
> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their
> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content
> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed
> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox
> and Playstation):
> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
> >
> >
> >
> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card
> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be
> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set
> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve
> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to
> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
> >
> >
> >
> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also
> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a
> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very
> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own,
> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Marko Galesic
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Kind regards,
> Alexander.
>

RE: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>]

Alexander,

-- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, but together with it

Yes

-- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's feedback

Yes

-- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers to use it?

I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, then the next step would be to open a thread on dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create the thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs.

The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of Trello will be able to vote.


I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have.


The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets. Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but developers may get information from end-users that way.

Those are my thoughts,
Marko

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzubov@nflabs.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Guys,

thank you for great suggestions!

Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's feedback?

Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project developers to use it?

Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.

Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage second one.

What do you think?



On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> Hello A B!
>
>
>
> I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s 
> voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order to vote.
> You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account 
> through Trello.
>
>
>
> I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b
> oard/
>
>
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache 
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi guys!
>
> I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support it.
> So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>
>
>
> I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to 
> prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with 
> various JIRA
> workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before 
> :)
>
>
>
> Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic 
> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>
> Hi moon,
>
>
>
> I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what 
> I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem 
> to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – 
> edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs 
> to be a separation between what the users want and backend 
> implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering 
> engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I 
> want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll 
> keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware 
> of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.
>
>
>
> There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing 
> stuff, if I did:
>
> 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>
> 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which 
> is a guess, at best, right now).
>
>
>
> The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use 
> the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an 
> indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are 
> curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, 
> so there is some inherent protection against trolls.
>
>
>
> ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to 
> JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>
>
>
> I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de 
> facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>
>
>
> Those are my thoughts,
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache 
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi Marko Galesic,
>
>
>
> Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking 
> involvement.
>
>
>
> About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.
>
>
>
> In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to 
> get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>
>
>
> Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people 
> who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>
>
>
> However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for 
> different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin 
> directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
>
> It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be 
> discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure out.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> moon
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic 
> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to 
> maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to 
> maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community 
> would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending 
> this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board 
> should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>
>
>
> I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin 
> I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put 
> them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open 
> to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level 
> reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>
>
>
> I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their 
> Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content 
> creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed 
> mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and Playstation):
> https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>
>
>
> There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, 
> Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card 
> tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be 
> implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set 
> up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve 
> also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to 
> become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>
>
>
> This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also 
> does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a 
> ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very 
> few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, 
> internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marko Galesic
>
>
>
>



--
--
Kind regards,
Alexander.

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Alexander Bezzubov <ab...@nflabs.com>]

Guys,

thank you for great suggestions!

Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted
JIRA, but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a
tool for prioritizing user's feedback?

Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the
dev@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project
developers to use it?

Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can
not do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and
more user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback.

Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth
supporting two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of
making an experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers
to manage second one.

What do you think?



On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic
<MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
> Hello A B!
>
>
>
> I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s voting
> is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order to vote.
> You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account through
> Trello.
>
>
>
> I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool:
> http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-board/
>
>
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
>
>
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi guys!
>
> I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support it.
> So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.
>
>
>
> I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
> prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with various JIRA
> workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before :)
>
>
>
> Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic
> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>
> Hi moon,
>
>
>
> I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what I’m
> thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem to be end
> users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – edging on
> developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs to be a
> separation between what the users want and backend implementation. An artist
> doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering engineer how to program a
> photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and
> be able to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at
> least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked
> with co-workers, and they like the idea.
>
>
>
> There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing stuff, if
> I did:
>
> 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>
> 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which is a
> guess, at best, right now).
>
>
>
> The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use the
> votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an indication of what
> people are excited about); however, those cards are curated by me : /. I’m
> biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, so there is some inherent
> protection against trolls.
>
>
>
> ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to JIRA;
> it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>
>
>
> I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de facto
> tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>
>
>
> Those are my thoughts,
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi Marko Galesic,
>
>
>
> Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> involvement.
>
>
>
> About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.
>
>
>
> In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to get
> users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>
>
>
> Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people who
> feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>
>
>
> However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for different
> target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin directly to solve the
> problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
>
> It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be discussion of
> way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure out.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> moon
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic
> <MA...@progressive.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
> maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
> maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community would
> market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending this to my
> company’s data scientists. The administration of the board should be handled
> by somebody other than the users, however.
>
>
>
> I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin I’ve
> taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put them into
> “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open to feedback +
> adding administrators since this is really a high level reflection of what
> already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>
>
>
> I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their Trello
> board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content creation platform
> for games ranging from small independently developed mobile apps to
> multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and Playstation):
> https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>
>
>
> There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card tagging
> (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be implemented –
> specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set up is a public
> board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve also enabled card
> “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only
> card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>
>
>
> This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also does not
> include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a ticket, they seem
> to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very few of those, though,
> and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, internal ticket tracking system
> that is much more granular.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marko Galesic
>
>
>
>



-- 
--
Kind regards,
Alexander.

RE: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>]

Hello A B!

I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order to vote. You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account through Trello.

I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool: http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-board/

Marko

From: A B [mailto:netzbewohner@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Hi guys!
I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support it. So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.

I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with various JIRA workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before :)

Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
Hi moon,

I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems. However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs to be a separation between what the users want and backend implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they like the idea.

There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing stuff, if I did:

1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA

2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which is a guess, at best, right now).

The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, so there is some inherent protection against trolls.

---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---

I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.

Those are my thoughts,
Marko

From: moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org<ma...@apache.org>]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org<ma...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org>
Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

Hi Marko Galesic,

Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking involvement.

About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.

In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?

Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people who feels less comfortable of using JIRA.

However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure out.

What do you think?

Thanks,
moon

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic <MA...@progressive.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board should be handled by somebody other than the users, however.

I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.

I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and Playstation): https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap

There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.

This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular.

Thank you,
Marko Galesic

Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache Zeppelin

[A B <ne...@gmail.com>]

Hi guys!
I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support it.
So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this.

I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to
prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with various
JIRA workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before
:)

Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic <
MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:

>  Hi moon,
>
>
>
> I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems.
> However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what I’m
> thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem to be end
> users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – edging on
> developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs to be a
> separation between what the users want and backend implementation. An
> artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering engineer how to program a
> photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I want it to be easier to do X and
> be able to better control Y”. I’ll keep maintaining the board. You are at
> least one person that is aware of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked
> with co-workers, and they like the idea.
>
>
>
> There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing stuff,
> if I did:
>
> 1.       I don’t have access to edit JIRA
>
> 2.       Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the
> issues (I edit the titles and prune to what *I* think is relevant, which
> is a guess, at best, right now).
>
>
>
> The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use the
> votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an indication of
> what people are excited about); however, those cards are curated by me : /.
> I’m biased. This *is* a relatively esoteric project, so there is some
> inherent protection against trolls.
>
>
>
> ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to JIRA;
> it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway ---
>
>
>
> I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de
> facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem.
>
>
>
> Those are my thoughts,
>
> Marko
>
>
>
> *From:* moon soo Lee [mailto:moon@apache.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM
> *To:* users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org
> *Cc:* Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger
> *Subject:* Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache
> Zeppelin
>
>
>
> Hi Marko Galesic,
>
>
>
> Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking
> involvement.
>
>
>
> About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice job.
>
>
>
> In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to get
> users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right?
>
>
>
> Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people who
> feels less comfortable of using JIRA.
>
>
>
> However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for
> different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin directly
> to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache community.
>
> It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be discussion
> of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be anything, we'll figure
> out.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> moon
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic <
> MARKO_GALESIC@progressive.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to
> maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to
> maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community would
> market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending this to my
> company’s data scientists. The administration of the board should be
> handled by somebody other than the users, however.
>
>
>
> I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin I’ve
> taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put them into
> “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open to feedback +
> adding administrators since this is really a high level reflection of what
> already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA.
>
>
>
> I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their Trello
> board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content creation
> platform for games ranging from small independently developed mobile apps
> to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on Xbox and
> Playstation): https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap
>
>
>
> There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI,
> Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card tagging
> (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be implemented –
> specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set up is a public
> board, so *anybody* *with a Trello account* can vote). I’ve also enabled
> card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to become transparent.
> The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”.
>
>
>
> This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also does
> not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a ticket, they
> seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very few of those,
> though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, internal ticket tracking
> system that is much more granular.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marko Galesic
>
>
>
>