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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> on 2005/12/22 06:10:40 UTC

Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Hi,

We have some uncommitted code related to Apache Sandesha project that uses
Hibernate. We can commit them to the the Sandesha2 SVN if this has been
solved.

Has the license issue been resolved now ?

Thank you,
Chamikara


On 10/28/05, Cliff Schmidt <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> At this point, the answer is "no".  There has been discussion of
> having a policy to allow using and/or distributing LGPL, but that
> discussion has not been resolved yet.  I will do everything I can to
> have the issue resolved by ApacheCon (Dec 10-14); but I can't tell you
> how it will be resolved just yet.
>
> Cliff
>
> On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake <ja...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We are implementing Apache Sandesha2 these days and wanted to know the
> > possibility of using Hibernate in this project.
> > Hibernate comes with LGPL and think that it is restrictive than our
> license.
> >
> > Please advice.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jaliya Ekanayake
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <da...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Jaliya Ekanayake" <ja...@opensource.lk>
> > Cc: "Sanka Samaranayake" <ss...@gmail.com>; <sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org
> >;
> > "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@opensource.lk>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of storage
> beans
> >
> >
> > Please ask on legal-discuss@apache.org mailing list.
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake <ja...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > Hi Sanka,
> > >
> > > The idea is good but the problem is Hibernate has  LGPL whcih is a
> > > restrictive licence than ASF Licence.
> > > Need some expert advice on this.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jaliya
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Sanka Samaranayake" <ss...@gmail.com>
> > > To: <sa...@ws.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 PM
> > > Subject: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of storage beans
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys,
> > > >
> > > > Since Sandesha architecture is based upon storage beans, its clear
> that
> > > > we
> > > > need to have a persistence layer that maps these beans to the
> database.
> > > > We thought of developing our own layer (and partly did it :) ). But
> when
> > > > it came to think transactions and stale object management we thought
> it
> > > > is
> > > > great if we use a proven framework like Hibernate instead of
> developing
> > > > our own persistence layer.
> > > >
> > > > Can we use Hibernate for Sandesha (with derby as the database) and
> is
> > > > there any *license issues*?
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > --Sanka
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 09:44 +0000, Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Cliff
> 
> What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
> function available to non-hibernate users?
> 
> (However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we
> may not bother with the Hibernate option) 

Exactly. My preference would be to say that if we can't release the
hibernate plugin from Apache we move that bit of code elsewhere and
release that separately. Its not a huge big deal .. but of course it'll
be much nicer to be able to give all the code from ASF and let users
download their own hibernate jar.

Sanjiva.



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Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 09:44 +0000, Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Cliff
> 
> What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
> function available to non-hibernate users?
> 
> (However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we
> may not bother with the Hibernate option) 

Exactly. My preference would be to say that if we can't release the
hibernate plugin from Apache we move that bit of code elsewhere and
release that separately. Its not a huge big deal .. but of course it'll
be much nicer to be able to give all the code from ASF and let users
download their own hibernate jar.

Sanjiva.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org

Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 09:44 +0000, Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Cliff
> 
> What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
> function available to non-hibernate users?
> 
> (However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we
> may not bother with the Hibernate option) 

Exactly. My preference would be to say that if we can't release the
hibernate plugin from Apache we move that bit of code elsewhere and
release that separately. Its not a huge big deal .. but of course it'll
be much nicer to be able to give all the code from ASF and let users
download their own hibernate jar.

Sanjiva.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org

Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.

Cliff

What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
function available to non-hibernate users?

(However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we may
not bother with the Hibernate option)

Paul

On 12/22/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Cliff,
>
> Thanx for the advices :)
>
> Actually the part that uses Hibernate comes as a plugin to the Sandesha2
> framework. To be precise Sandesha2 is an WS-RM implementation for Axis2.
> Even without this part users can perfectly use Sandesha2 as an in-memory
> WS-RM implementation.  This plugin will only be needed by users who want to
> get permanent storage based reliability. So the Sandesha2 project will not
> have a strict dependency on Hibernate.
>
> When it comes to building the source code, I believe we can put a maven
> dependency that will download the Hibernate jar to the client machines when
> the source get builded, without having it in the Apache repository.
>
> Thank you,
> Chamikara
>
>
>
> On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Cliff,
> > >
> > >  Actually what we want to commit is some code written by us which will
> > go
> > > under Apache License (Not LGPL). Only thing is this code will refer to
> > some
> > > Hibernate classes. It is great if we can give the hibernate jar with
> > our
> > > distribution, but even if not we can still ask the users to download
> > it
> > > seperately.
> > >
> > >  So what we actually have are following two problems.
> > >
> >
> > First of all, let me again emphasize that my answers are based on a
> > *proposed* policy, not on anything official just yet.  However, there
> > is no existing policy that allows distribution or hard dependencies on
> > LGPL.
> >
> > (answering in reverse order, because question #2 is easier...)
> >
> > >  2. Can we include Hibernate jar in the Apache Sandesa2 distributions.
> >
> >
> > No.  That would mean including LGPL-licensed software within an ASF
> > product.
> >
> > >  1. Can we commit source code that goes under Apache licence but will
> > refer
> > > to some classes of the Hibernate framework (which goes under LGPL).
> >
> > Only if the Sandesha project (and, transitively, any Apache project
> > that depends on Sandesha) is "rechartered" to be targeted exclusively
> > at users who have Hibernate on their classpath.  Anything required for
> > the product to operate is either part of the Apache product or part of
> > the user's environment (OS, VM, containers, standard libraries, etc.).
> > LGPL-licensed software can't be in the product; therefore, the only
> > role an LGPL component can play is as part of the user's environment.
> > IMO, it is up to the WS PMC to decide whether it is appropriate that
> > the Sandesha product is only targeted to Hibernate users.
> >
> > Note that I don't believe there is any problem with ASF products
> > referencing classes in a user's environment, regardless of how those
> > classes are licensed.  The question is whether a product should be
> > restricted to that environment.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > > On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt < cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm just about to propose a licensing policy, based on the input
> > I've
> > > > gotten from various mailing lists, the PMCs, and lots of folks at
> > > > ApacheCon.  I can't tell you how the proposal will be received, but
> > I
> > > > can tell you that it would not allow the distribution of LGPL code
> > > > within an Apache product.
> > > >
> > > > Stay tuned on this list for details within the next few days.
> > > >
> > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >  We have some uncommitted code related to Apache Sandesha project
> > that
> > > uses
> > > > > Hibernate. We can commit them to the the Sandesha2 SVN if this has
> > been
> > > > > solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Has the license issue been resolved now ?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Thank you,
> > > > >  Chamikara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/28/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > At this point, the answer is "no".  There has been discussion of
> > > > > > having a policy to allow using and/or distributing LGPL, but
> > that
> > > > > > discussion has not been resolved yet.  I will do everything I
> > can to
> > > > > > have the issue resolved by ApacheCon (Dec 10-14); but I can't
> > tell you
> > > > > > how it will be resolved just yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cliff
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake <ja...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are implementing Apache Sandesha2 these days and wanted to
> > know
> > > the
> > > > > > > possibility of using Hibernate in this project.
> > > > > > > Hibernate comes with LGPL and think that it is restrictive
> > than our
> > > > > license.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jaliya Ekanayake
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <da...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: "Jaliya Ekanayake" < jaliya@opensource.lk >
> > > > > > > Cc: "Sanka Samaranayake" <ss...@gmail.com>;
> > > > > < sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org>;
> > > > > > > "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@opensource.lk>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:50 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of
> > storage
> > > > > beans
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please ask on legal-discuss@apache.org mailing list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > > dims
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake < jaliya@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Sanka,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The idea is good but the problem is Hibernate has  LGPL
> > whcih is a
> > > > > > > > restrictive licence than ASF Licence.
> > > > > > > > Need some expert advice on this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jaliya
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Sanka Samaranayake" < ssanka@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <sa...@ws.apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of
> > storage
> > > beans
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since Sandesha architecture is based upon storage beans,
> > its
> > > clear
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > need to have a persistence layer that maps these beans to
> > the
> > > > > database.
> > > > > > > > > We thought of developing our own layer (and partly did it
> > :) ).
> > > But
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > it came to think transactions and stale object management
> > we
> > > thought
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > great if we use a proven framework like Hibernate instead
> > of
> > > > > developing
> > > > > > > > > our own persistence layer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we use Hibernate for Sandesha (with derby as the
> > database)
> > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > there any *license issues*?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > > --Sanka
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and
> > > educational
> > > > > > > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project

Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.

Cliff

What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
function available to non-hibernate users?

(However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we may
not bother with the Hibernate option)

Paul

On 12/22/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Cliff,
>
> Thanx for the advices :)
>
> Actually the part that uses Hibernate comes as a plugin to the Sandesha2
> framework. To be precise Sandesha2 is an WS-RM implementation for Axis2.
> Even without this part users can perfectly use Sandesha2 as an in-memory
> WS-RM implementation.  This plugin will only be needed by users who want to
> get permanent storage based reliability. So the Sandesha2 project will not
> have a strict dependency on Hibernate.
>
> When it comes to building the source code, I believe we can put a maven
> dependency that will download the Hibernate jar to the client machines when
> the source get builded, without having it in the Apache repository.
>
> Thank you,
> Chamikara
>
>
>
> On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Cliff,
> > >
> > >  Actually what we want to commit is some code written by us which will
> > go
> > > under Apache License (Not LGPL). Only thing is this code will refer to
> > some
> > > Hibernate classes. It is great if we can give the hibernate jar with
> > our
> > > distribution, but even if not we can still ask the users to download
> > it
> > > seperately.
> > >
> > >  So what we actually have are following two problems.
> > >
> >
> > First of all, let me again emphasize that my answers are based on a
> > *proposed* policy, not on anything official just yet.  However, there
> > is no existing policy that allows distribution or hard dependencies on
> > LGPL.
> >
> > (answering in reverse order, because question #2 is easier...)
> >
> > >  2. Can we include Hibernate jar in the Apache Sandesa2 distributions.
> >
> >
> > No.  That would mean including LGPL-licensed software within an ASF
> > product.
> >
> > >  1. Can we commit source code that goes under Apache licence but will
> > refer
> > > to some classes of the Hibernate framework (which goes under LGPL).
> >
> > Only if the Sandesha project (and, transitively, any Apache project
> > that depends on Sandesha) is "rechartered" to be targeted exclusively
> > at users who have Hibernate on their classpath.  Anything required for
> > the product to operate is either part of the Apache product or part of
> > the user's environment (OS, VM, containers, standard libraries, etc.).
> > LGPL-licensed software can't be in the product; therefore, the only
> > role an LGPL component can play is as part of the user's environment.
> > IMO, it is up to the WS PMC to decide whether it is appropriate that
> > the Sandesha product is only targeted to Hibernate users.
> >
> > Note that I don't believe there is any problem with ASF products
> > referencing classes in a user's environment, regardless of how those
> > classes are licensed.  The question is whether a product should be
> > restricted to that environment.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > > On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt < cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm just about to propose a licensing policy, based on the input
> > I've
> > > > gotten from various mailing lists, the PMCs, and lots of folks at
> > > > ApacheCon.  I can't tell you how the proposal will be received, but
> > I
> > > > can tell you that it would not allow the distribution of LGPL code
> > > > within an Apache product.
> > > >
> > > > Stay tuned on this list for details within the next few days.
> > > >
> > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >  We have some uncommitted code related to Apache Sandesha project
> > that
> > > uses
> > > > > Hibernate. We can commit them to the the Sandesha2 SVN if this has
> > been
> > > > > solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Has the license issue been resolved now ?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Thank you,
> > > > >  Chamikara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/28/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > At this point, the answer is "no".  There has been discussion of
> > > > > > having a policy to allow using and/or distributing LGPL, but
> > that
> > > > > > discussion has not been resolved yet.  I will do everything I
> > can to
> > > > > > have the issue resolved by ApacheCon (Dec 10-14); but I can't
> > tell you
> > > > > > how it will be resolved just yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cliff
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake <ja...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are implementing Apache Sandesha2 these days and wanted to
> > know
> > > the
> > > > > > > possibility of using Hibernate in this project.
> > > > > > > Hibernate comes with LGPL and think that it is restrictive
> > than our
> > > > > license.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jaliya Ekanayake
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <da...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: "Jaliya Ekanayake" < jaliya@opensource.lk >
> > > > > > > Cc: "Sanka Samaranayake" <ss...@gmail.com>;
> > > > > < sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org>;
> > > > > > > "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@opensource.lk>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:50 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of
> > storage
> > > > > beans
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please ask on legal-discuss@apache.org mailing list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > > dims
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake < jaliya@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Sanka,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The idea is good but the problem is Hibernate has  LGPL
> > whcih is a
> > > > > > > > restrictive licence than ASF Licence.
> > > > > > > > Need some expert advice on this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jaliya
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Sanka Samaranayake" < ssanka@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <sa...@ws.apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer of
> > storage
> > > beans
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since Sandesha architecture is based upon storage beans,
> > its
> > > clear
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > need to have a persistence layer that maps these beans to
> > the
> > > > > database.
> > > > > > > > > We thought of developing our own layer (and partly did it
> > :) ).
> > > But
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > it came to think transactions and stale object management
> > we
> > > thought
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > great if we use a proven framework like Hibernate instead
> > of
> > > > > developing
> > > > > > > > > our own persistence layer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we use Hibernate for Sandesha (with derby as the
> > database)
> > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > there any *license issues*?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > > --Sanka
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and
> > > educational
> > > > > > > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com