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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> on 2011/09/12 18:44:38 UTC
Targeted Donations?
I'm seeing some members say on the ooo-users list that targeted
donations are not permitted at Apache. But a cursory investigation
calls this statement into question.
For example, the contribution website at Apache [1] says, "If you have
a specific target or project that you wish to directly support, please
contact us and we will do our best to satisfy your wishes."
And I see an old ASF Board resolution explicitly enabling the
acceptance of targeted donations [2].
What is the situation? Is this just what is true of any US-based
non-profit, that we can only officially accept official contributions
at the foundation-level, but that the Board does a best-effort attempt
to use the funds in a way that respects the donor's wishes?
I don't think the project should solicit donations to the project
alone. Our project creates non-trivial load on infrastructure staff,
hardware and bandwidth, and that is best remediated by general,
unencumbered donations to ASF. But if someone came along and wanted
to donate specifically for the benefit of the project, would we really
be required to turn them away?
-Rob
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Financial
[2] http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/1999/board_minutes_1999_09_22.txt
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 12 September 2011 18:18, Danese Cooper <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> I think the problem is that ASF doesn't have a policy of "paying" for
> development. Additionally, monies that do come in through the Sponsorships
> is *not* earmarked for a specific project. There are currently no
> mechanisms to deal with this. At ConCom we've
> seen the Meetup communities raise money for specific events
Those donations have not been to the foundation. They have been
sought, secured and accounted by external organisations that have been
a part of the event.
More below..
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm seeing some members say on the ooo-users list that targeted
>> donations are not permitted at Apache. But a cursory investigation
>> calls this statement into question.
The ASF does not generally accept targeted donations, at least I have
never heard of it doing so whilst I have heard many people that says
it cannot do so. The reasons for this are many, Danese listed a few.
The ASF does not pay for development and is unlikely to ever do so as
it is a core part of what makes the Apache Way successful. The ASF
already provides whatever reasonable infrastructure resources a
project asks for (where reasonable means that we can actual support
them in the long term). Therefore the idea of asking for money for a
specific project is difficult, all ASF resources are centrally
controlled.
>> For example, the contribution website at Apache [1] says, "If you have
>> a specific target or project that you wish to directly support, please
>> contact us and we will do our best to satisfy your wishes."
>>
>> And I see an old ASF Board resolution explicitly enabling the
>> acceptance of targeted donations [2].
The resolution says "RESOLVED, that the acceptance of a targeted
donation does not
constitute a commitment by the Foundation to any more than a
best effort in good faith to apply the donation as requested;
and be it further"
>> What is the situation? Is this just what is true of any US-based
>> non-profit, that we can only officially accept official contributions
>> at the foundation-level, but that the Board does a best-effort attempt
>> to use the funds in a way that respects the donor's wishes?
Essentially, yes. Where "best effort" means that the foundation
discourages project specific contributions and requests they be made
to the foundation as a whole.
>> I don't think the project should solicit donations to the project
>> alone. Our project creates non-trivial load on infrastructure staff,
>> hardware and bandwidth, and that is best remediated by general,
>> unencumbered donations to ASF.
+1
>> But if someone came along and wanted
>> to donate specifically for the benefit of the project, would we really
>> be required to turn them away?
We would be expected to explain that it is not possible to accept
targeted donations but to reassure the donor that the foundation
provides all necessary infrastructure resources and the donation will
go into that pot and thus benefit the project as expected. Should this
prove to be a blocker, for example, if a donor would like to fund
something that is not normally provided by the ASF then they should be
point towards fundraising@a.o along with our recommendation/request.
We should not, under any circumstances, assume that the ASF can change
it's existing policy on this for the OOo project. On the other hand,
as with most things in the ASF, unless the law prevents us from doing
something there is always possibility of policies being modified if
it makes the foundation as a whole a better place.
Ross
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 13 September 2011 08:23, Fernand Vanrie <so...@pmgroup.be> wrote:
> Is there a policy for "paid" bug repair ?
Yes. The ASF does not pay for code development. There is nothing
stopping someone doing something outside the ASF as long as it
conforms to the trademark rules and contributions are handled just
like any other.
Ross
>
> Greetz
>
> Fernand
>>
>> On 12 September 2011 19:56, FR web forum<oo...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>> If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would
>>>> have
>>>> to agree to it).
>>>
>>> My query is just to have a formally answer to give at our users on the
>>> french forum.
>>>
>>> We have sometime this question: "I want to donate, how can I do this?"
>>>
>>> What should I say to them?
>>
>> It depends on what they means by a "donation". If it is a significant
>> donation then they should look at the sponsorship programme, see
>> http://apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>>
>> If it is a small donation from an individual user we do not currently
>> have a means for accepting such. Every now and then someone decides
>> they are going to put a process in place to accept small donations.
>> Each time it progresses a little further but at the time of writing it
>> is not (as far as I'm aware) complete. Of course, if someone from OOo
>> would like to help make this happen then we need to talk to
>> fundraising@ to see what can be done.
>>
>> In the meantime perhaps the community could put together a list of
>> external charities relating to the OO.o project and list these on the
>> OO.o site?
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> Ross
>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Fernand Vanrie <so...@pmgroup.be>.
Ross ,
Is there a policy for "paid" bug repair ?
Greetz
Fernand
> On 12 September 2011 19:56, FR web forum<oo...@free.fr> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>> If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have
>>> to agree to it).
>> My query is just to have a formally answer to give at our users on the french forum.
>>
>> We have sometime this question: "I want to donate, how can I do this?"
>>
>> What should I say to them?
> It depends on what they means by a "donation". If it is a significant
> donation then they should look at the sponsorship programme, see
> http://apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
>
> If it is a small donation from an individual user we do not currently
> have a means for accepting such. Every now and then someone decides
> they are going to put a process in place to accept small donations.
> Each time it progresses a little further but at the time of writing it
> is not (as far as I'm aware) complete. Of course, if someone from OOo
> would like to help make this happen then we need to talk to
> fundraising@ to see what can be done.
>
> In the meantime perhaps the community could put together a list of
> external charities relating to the OO.o project and list these on the
> OO.o site?
>
> Ross
>
> Ross
RE: Targeted Donations?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I tried it. I clicked "Pay" before my eye caught the tiny "Note to Seller" click to Add link, so I didn't get to tell ASF anything I wanted them to know.
The donation process works easily.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 15:09
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
Subject: Re: Targeted Donations?
On 12 September 2011 22:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> There are ways to make small (or larger, within-credit-limit) personal donations to the ASF. PayPal is accepted [;<).
So it is. Seems I missed that one being completed. See
http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Paypal
Thanks Dennis.
Ross
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 12 September 2011 22:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> There are ways to make small (or larger, within-credit-limit) personal donations to the ASF. PayPal is accepted [;<).
So it is. Seems I missed that one being completed. See
http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Paypal
Thanks Dennis.
Ross
RE: Targeted Donations?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
There are ways to make small (or larger, within-credit-limit) personal donations to the ASF. PayPal is accepted [;<).
I haven't tried it to see if one can even make a comment to indicate that the donation is in honor of ASF accepting the OOo incubator.
That is not the same as making or accepting a targeted donation, of course.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 13:35
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; oooforum@free.fr
Subject: Re: Targeted Donations?
On 12 September 2011 19:56, FR web forum <oo...@free.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have
>> to agree to it).
> My query is just to have a formally answer to give at our users on the french forum.
>
> We have sometime this question: "I want to donate, how can I do this?"
>
> What should I say to them?
It depends on what they means by a "donation". If it is a significant
donation then they should look at the sponsorship programme, see
http://apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
If it is a small donation from an individual user we do not currently
have a means for accepting such. Every now and then someone decides
they are going to put a process in place to accept small donations.
Each time it progresses a little further but at the time of writing it
is not (as far as I'm aware) complete. Of course, if someone from OOo
would like to help make this happen then we need to talk to
fundraising@ to see what can be done.
In the meantime perhaps the community could put together a list of
external charities relating to the OO.o project and list these on the
OO.o site?
Ross
Ross
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 12 September 2011 19:56, FR web forum <oo...@free.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have
>> to agree to it).
> My query is just to have a formally answer to give at our users on the french forum.
>
> We have sometime this question: "I want to donate, how can I do this?"
>
> What should I say to them?
It depends on what they means by a "donation". If it is a significant
donation then they should look at the sponsorship programme, see
http://apache.org/foundation/sponsorship.html
If it is a small donation from an individual user we do not currently
have a means for accepting such. Every now and then someone decides
they are going to put a process in place to accept small donations.
Each time it progresses a little further but at the time of writing it
is not (as far as I'm aware) complete. Of course, if someone from OOo
would like to help make this happen then we need to talk to
fundraising@ to see what can be done.
In the meantime perhaps the community could put together a list of
external charities relating to the OO.o project and list these on the
OO.o site?
Ross
Ross
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>.
Hello,
> If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have
> to agree to it).
My query is just to have a formally answer to give at our users on the french forum.
We have sometime this question: "I want to donate, how can I do this?"
What should I say to them?
Thanks
Re: Targeted Donations?
Posted by Danese Cooper <da...@gmail.com>.
Hi Rob,
I think the problem is that ASF doesn't have a policy of "paying" for
development. Additionally, monies that do come in through the Sponsorships
is *not* earmarked for a specific project. There are currently no
mechanisms to deal with this. At ConCom we've
seen the Meetup communities raise money for specific events and ConCom is
working to figure out best to support self-organizing targeted funding for
events...but again this isn't the same as accepting donations for coding.
If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have
to agree to it).
There is the added dimension that the larger OOo/LO communities have long
been accepting donation monies earmarked for specific things (such as
SoftwareAG taking money to sponsor travel to OOo-related events). These
have always completely separate from the "code copyright owner" and might be
useful to divert donation inquiries towards. Good news is there are
alternative well-established pots of money that donors can be directed to.
Of course SoftwareAG is only tax-exempt in Germany, as the ASF is only
tax-exempt in the USA...
My $.02
Danese
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm seeing some members say on the ooo-users list that targeted
> donations are not permitted at Apache. But a cursory investigation
> calls this statement into question.
>
> For example, the contribution website at Apache [1] says, "If you have
> a specific target or project that you wish to directly support, please
> contact us and we will do our best to satisfy your wishes."
>
> And I see an old ASF Board resolution explicitly enabling the
> acceptance of targeted donations [2].
>
> What is the situation? Is this just what is true of any US-based
> non-profit, that we can only officially accept official contributions
> at the foundation-level, but that the Board does a best-effort attempt
> to use the funds in a way that respects the donor's wishes?
>
> I don't think the project should solicit donations to the project
> alone. Our project creates non-trivial load on infrastructure staff,
> hardware and bandwidth, and that is best remediated by general,
> unencumbered donations to ASF. But if someone came along and wanted
> to donate specifically for the benefit of the project, would we really
> be required to turn them away?
>
> -Rob
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Financial
>
> [2]
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/1999/board_minutes_1999_09_22.txt
>