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Posted to dev@trafodion.apache.org by Amanda Moran <am...@esgyn.com> on 2015/10/20 19:56:41 UTC
Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Hi there All-
Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or
Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our
hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer asked
the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative feedback
on that.
Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart, stay as
is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by hand?
Thank you!
--
Thanks,
Amanda Moran
RE: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Posted by Steve Varnau <st...@esgyn.com>.
Hi,
I have an automation bias, but I prefer current behavior.
If this is changed to prompt, an option is needed to do it automatically as
it currently does. Maybe an option that does not restart would be better,
and let current behavior be default?
--Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 10:57 AM
To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Hi there All-
Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or
Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our
hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer asked
the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative feedback
on that.
Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart, stay as
is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by hand?
Thank you!
--
Thanks,
Amanda Moran
RE: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Posted by "D. Markt" <dm...@gmail.com>.
Yes, then given Cloudera/HDP must be restarted then an option to opt out is appropriate and given your nice new video describing how to automate the installation an option to not do the Cloudera/HDP restart or the Trafodion start makes sense. That is, an operator might be tasked with doing the install and would prefer to use the automated method and then later someone else would both restart Cloudera/Hortonworks and start Trafodion. Certainly I like what we already have but if adding this option isn't too much effort and doesn't change the flow too much, then it might have a use case. We just need to make sure the user doesn't circumvent the restart and then have to ponder why Trafodion won't start up given the restart is a known requirement.
Thanks,
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 2:01 PM
To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Hi there Dennis-
Yes, Cloudera/Hortonworks MUST be restarted for Trafodion to start.
Cloudera/HDP has no way of knowing the hbase-trx*.jar file has been added without a restart... without that no connection between Cloudera/Hortonworks and Trafodion can be established.
I like Steve's idea of making the restart automatic but allowing for a by-pass option of some sort, if you really don't want a restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks and will start everything including Trafodion at another time. (Does seem like a pretty special case.. if you ask me :)) I will need to think on how the best way to do that is, but I like that idea.
Upgrade question: User does not need to worry about an upgrade. The installer determines that and proceeds down the correct path.
Thanks all!
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:43 AM, D. Markt <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Amanda,
>
> I think we've all been annoyed when installing Windows updates and
> we're ask to restart the system when we don't really understand why a
> restart is required given what was updated. Conversely, if an
> installer is installing a package that will not work without a reboot
> or an application restart, not doing the restart will just waste more
> time when the application fails to run successfully. Are there times
> when Trafodion can be installed and run successfully without
> restarting Cloudera/Hortonworks? If not, then we should do the restart.
>
> That said, my recollection is it does seem a (very little) bit
> inconsistent that we prompt the user if we want Trafodion to be
> started but don't prompt if the user wants us to restart
> Cloudera/Hortonworks. Given the installer does need sudo access one
> could envision one person doing the installation for another person
> that then would restart Cloudera/Hortonworks before trying to start Trafodion at a later time.
> Likewise, I recall one time realizing that I would prefer not to
> restart Cloudera/Hortonworks at the time because I was going to need
> to restart it shortly anyway but given the current prompts all I could
> do was exit the installer or allow the install to continue and have to
> restart the cluster twice.
>
> So I would probably vote for prompting if Cloudera/Hortonworks
> should be restarted. Then if not doing the restart is very likely to
> cause Trafodion to not start up, then I would make the start Trafodion
> prompt default be "No" and if "Yes" is entered warn that without the
> Cloudera/Hortonworks restart the Trafodion start is likely to fail.
> If the Cloudera/Hortonworks restart isn't required or it was done then
> keep the start Trafodion prompt default as "Yes".
>
> Now a question for you, when should a user indicate the Trafodion
> installation is an "upgrade"? Is that only appropriate for a new
> release of Trafodion that requires the metadata to be upgraded? Or can "upgrade"
> be used to update the software in its current location?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:57 PM
> To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
>
> Hi there All-
>
> Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or
> Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our
> hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
>
> Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer
> asked the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative
> feedback on that.
>
> Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart,
> stay as is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by hand?
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Amanda Moran
>
>
--
Thanks,
Amanda Moran
Re: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Posted by Hans Zeller <ha...@esgyn.com>.
Hi,
Steve makes a good point about automation, it is important that we have an
option to make the restart automatic - and also suppress all the other
questions the installer asks. However, as long as we humans still call the
shots, the machine should have to give that option and not the human.
Machines are less likely to forget...
Thanks,
Hans
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Amanda Moran <am...@esgyn.com>
wrote:
> Hi there Dennis-
>
> Yes, Cloudera/Hortonworks MUST be restarted for Trafodion to start.
> Cloudera/HDP has no way of knowing the hbase-trx*.jar file has been added
> without a restart... without that no connection between
> Cloudera/Hortonworks and Trafodion can be established.
>
> I like Steve's idea of making the restart automatic but allowing for a
> by-pass option of some sort, if you really don't want a restart of
> Cloudera/Hortonworks and will start everything including Trafodion at
> another time. (Does seem like a pretty special case.. if you ask me :)) I
> will need to think on how the best way to do that is, but I like that idea.
>
> Upgrade question: User does not need to worry about an upgrade. The
> installer determines that and proceeds down the correct path.
>
> Thanks all!
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:43 AM, D. Markt <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Amanda,
> >
> > I think we've all been annoyed when installing Windows updates and
> we're
> > ask to restart the system when we don't really understand why a restart
> is
> > required given what was updated. Conversely, if an installer is
> installing
> > a package that will not work without a reboot or an application restart,
> > not doing the restart will just waste more time when the application
> fails
> > to run successfully. Are there times when Trafodion can be installed and
> > run successfully without restarting Cloudera/Hortonworks? If not, then
> we
> > should do the restart.
> >
> > That said, my recollection is it does seem a (very little) bit
> > inconsistent that we prompt the user if we want Trafodion to be started
> but
> > don't prompt if the user wants us to restart Cloudera/Hortonworks. Given
> > the installer does need sudo access one could envision one person doing
> the
> > installation for another person that then would restart
> > Cloudera/Hortonworks before trying to start Trafodion at a later time.
> > Likewise, I recall one time realizing that I would prefer not to restart
> > Cloudera/Hortonworks at the time because I was going to need to restart
> it
> > shortly anyway but given the current prompts all I could do was exit the
> > installer or allow the install to continue and have to restart the
> cluster
> > twice.
> >
> > So I would probably vote for prompting if Cloudera/Hortonworks should
> be
> > restarted. Then if not doing the restart is very likely to cause
> Trafodion
> > to not start up, then I would make the start Trafodion prompt default be
> > "No" and if "Yes" is entered warn that without the Cloudera/Hortonworks
> > restart the Trafodion start is likely to fail. If the
> Cloudera/Hortonworks
> > restart isn't required or it was done then keep the start Trafodion
> prompt
> > default as "Yes".
> >
> > Now a question for you, when should a user indicate the Trafodion
> > installation is an "upgrade"? Is that only appropriate for a new release
> > of Trafodion that requires the metadata to be upgraded? Or can "upgrade"
> > be used to update the software in its current location?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:57 PM
> > To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
> > Subject: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
> >
> > Hi there All-
> >
> > Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or
> > Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our
> > hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
> >
> > Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer asked
> > the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative feedback
> > on that.
> >
> > Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart, stay
> > as is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by
> hand?
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Amanda Moran
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Amanda Moran
>
Re: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Posted by Amanda Moran <am...@esgyn.com>.
Hi there Dennis-
Yes, Cloudera/Hortonworks MUST be restarted for Trafodion to start.
Cloudera/HDP has no way of knowing the hbase-trx*.jar file has been added
without a restart... without that no connection between
Cloudera/Hortonworks and Trafodion can be established.
I like Steve's idea of making the restart automatic but allowing for a
by-pass option of some sort, if you really don't want a restart of
Cloudera/Hortonworks and will start everything including Trafodion at
another time. (Does seem like a pretty special case.. if you ask me :)) I
will need to think on how the best way to do that is, but I like that idea.
Upgrade question: User does not need to worry about an upgrade. The
installer determines that and proceeds down the correct path.
Thanks all!
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:43 AM, D. Markt <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Amanda,
>
> I think we've all been annoyed when installing Windows updates and we're
> ask to restart the system when we don't really understand why a restart is
> required given what was updated. Conversely, if an installer is installing
> a package that will not work without a reboot or an application restart,
> not doing the restart will just waste more time when the application fails
> to run successfully. Are there times when Trafodion can be installed and
> run successfully without restarting Cloudera/Hortonworks? If not, then we
> should do the restart.
>
> That said, my recollection is it does seem a (very little) bit
> inconsistent that we prompt the user if we want Trafodion to be started but
> don't prompt if the user wants us to restart Cloudera/Hortonworks. Given
> the installer does need sudo access one could envision one person doing the
> installation for another person that then would restart
> Cloudera/Hortonworks before trying to start Trafodion at a later time.
> Likewise, I recall one time realizing that I would prefer not to restart
> Cloudera/Hortonworks at the time because I was going to need to restart it
> shortly anyway but given the current prompts all I could do was exit the
> installer or allow the install to continue and have to restart the cluster
> twice.
>
> So I would probably vote for prompting if Cloudera/Hortonworks should be
> restarted. Then if not doing the restart is very likely to cause Trafodion
> to not start up, then I would make the start Trafodion prompt default be
> "No" and if "Yes" is entered warn that without the Cloudera/Hortonworks
> restart the Trafodion start is likely to fail. If the Cloudera/Hortonworks
> restart isn't required or it was done then keep the start Trafodion prompt
> default as "Yes".
>
> Now a question for you, when should a user indicate the Trafodion
> installation is an "upgrade"? Is that only appropriate for a new release
> of Trafodion that requires the metadata to be upgraded? Or can "upgrade"
> be used to update the software in its current location?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:57 PM
> To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
>
> Hi there All-
>
> Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or
> Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our
> hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
>
> Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer asked
> the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative feedback
> on that.
>
> Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart, stay
> as is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by hand?
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Amanda Moran
>
>
--
Thanks,
Amanda Moran
RE: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Posted by "D. Markt" <dm...@gmail.com>.
Hi Amanda,
I think we've all been annoyed when installing Windows updates and we're ask to restart the system when we don't really understand why a restart is required given what was updated. Conversely, if an installer is installing a package that will not work without a reboot or an application restart, not doing the restart will just waste more time when the application fails to run successfully. Are there times when Trafodion can be installed and run successfully without restarting Cloudera/Hortonworks? If not, then we should do the restart.
That said, my recollection is it does seem a (very little) bit inconsistent that we prompt the user if we want Trafodion to be started but don't prompt if the user wants us to restart Cloudera/Hortonworks. Given the installer does need sudo access one could envision one person doing the installation for another person that then would restart Cloudera/Hortonworks before trying to start Trafodion at a later time. Likewise, I recall one time realizing that I would prefer not to restart Cloudera/Hortonworks at the time because I was going to need to restart it shortly anyway but given the current prompts all I could do was exit the installer or allow the install to continue and have to restart the cluster twice.
So I would probably vote for prompting if Cloudera/Hortonworks should be restarted. Then if not doing the restart is very likely to cause Trafodion to not start up, then I would make the start Trafodion prompt default be "No" and if "Yes" is entered warn that without the Cloudera/Hortonworks restart the Trafodion start is likely to fail. If the Cloudera/Hortonworks restart isn't required or it was done then keep the start Trafodion prompt default as "Yes".
Now a question for you, when should a user indicate the Trafodion installation is an "upgrade"? Is that only appropriate for a new release of Trafodion that requires the metadata to be upgraded? Or can "upgrade" be used to update the software in its current location?
Thanks,
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Moran [mailto:amanda.moran@esgyn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:57 PM
To: dev <de...@trafodion.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Automatic restart of Cloudera/Hortonworks in Installer
Hi there All-
Currently, in the installer we automatically restart Cloudera or Hortonworks after new HBase/HDFS/Zookeeper configs are added and our hbase-trx*.jar file is copied into the HBase directory.
Should this still be done automatically? In the past, the installer asked the user to go restart by hand... and received a lot of negative feedback on that.
Should the installer prompt the user if they would like to restart, stay as is, or not even attempt to restart and wait for the user to do by hand?
Thank you!
--
Thanks,
Amanda Moran