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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Mark Watts <mw...@stny.rr.com> on 2003/05/06 15:12:19 UTC
.svn Directory Question
I have some questions about the .svn subdirectory on windows. On Linux it
is a hidden directory while on windows platforms it is not.
1. Was this done intentionally because of some requirement of subversion on
windows
2. Will it do any harm if I flag those subdirectories as hidden. (NOTE: I
have tried it already on a test repository and working directory and it does
not seem to harm anything but I thought I should ask.)
The reason I want to do this is because these directories are picked up in
all sub-directory searches, touches, etc and they shouldn't be. This is
Subversion private data that I should not be messing with yet a simple
directory for a particular file mask that includes sub directories will find
data in .SVN directory
Thanks
-Mark
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Re: .svn Directory Question
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Edmund Horner <ed...@chrysophylax.cjb.net> writes:
> Hopefully, by "hidden" you mean has the hidden attribute set. AFAIK,
> in Windows this is only used for displaying the item in directory
> lists. There should be few applications (and Subversion should not be
> one of them) that use it for anything else.
>
> On Unix .svn is "hidden" because it begins with a dot. This is
> standard practice for things that users normally don't want cluttering
> up their listings. It doesn't affect the file in any other way.
>
> Perhaps for consistency (in appearance, if not in practice) Subversion
> should set the hidden attribute in Windows.
Yeah, I've since been convinced that this would be a good thing. I
originally opposed it (long ago) because the use of hidden file and
directories is so much less common on Windows than on Unix. Whereas
every Unix user learns on Day One that adding the '-a' to 'ls' will
show them everything, there aren't generally that many Windows users
who know that you can use 'DIR /A:H', or that you can set the Explorer
options to show hidden files.
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RE: .svn Directory Question
Posted by Mark Watts <mw...@stny.rr.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edmund Horner [mailto:edmund@chrysophylax.cjb.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:37
> Cc: dev@subversion.tigris.org
>
> > I have some questions about the .svn subdirectory on windows. On
> > Linux it is a hidden directory while on windows platforms it is not.
> >
> > 1. Was this done intentionally because of some requirement of
> > subversion on windows 2. Will it do any harm if I flag those
> > subdirectories as hidden. (NOTE: I have tried it already on a test
> > repository and working directory and it does not seem to
> harm anything
> > but I thought I should ask.)
> >
> > The reason I want to do this is because these directories
> are picked
> > up in all sub-directory searches, touches, etc and they
> shouldn't be.
> > This is Subversion private data that I should not be
> messing with yet
> > a simple directory for a particular file mask that includes sub
> > directories will find data in .SVN directory
>
> Hopefully, by "hidden" you mean has the hidden attribute set.
> AFAIK, in Windows this is only used for displaying the item
> in directory lists.
> There should be few applications (and Subversion should not be one of
> them) that use it for anything else.
Yes, that is what I mean. Setting hidden attribute flag for the directory.
> On Unix .svn is "hidden" because it begins with a dot. This
> is standard practice for things that users normally don't
> want cluttering up their listings. It doesn't affect the
> file in any other way.
Likewise in windows, it does not affect the directory or file in any other
way. The file or directory with the hidden attribute set will not appear in
Explorer or in DOS/CMD directory listings unless options are set to display
hidden files/directories. The file or directory is still accessable.
> Perhaps for consistency (in appearance, if not in practice)
> Subversion should set the hidden attribute in Windows.
I tend to agree.
> I would be very surprised if doing this manually would cause
> any problems. For your search problems, it sounds like you
> just need tools which can understand an option to ignore
> hidden items. Windows XP search has such an option, for starters.
All standars search tools in windows already ignore files and directories
with the hidden attribute set. What I am unsure of is if I set this
attribute will it negativly affect subversion in some way.
Thanks
-Mark
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Re: .svn Directory Question
Posted by Edmund Horner <ed...@chrysophylax.cjb.net>.
> I have some questions about the .svn subdirectory on windows. On Linux it
> is a hidden directory while on windows platforms it is not.
>
> 1. Was this done intentionally because of some requirement of subversion on
> windows
> 2. Will it do any harm if I flag those subdirectories as hidden. (NOTE: I
> have tried it already on a test repository and working directory and it does
> not seem to harm anything but I thought I should ask.)
>
> The reason I want to do this is because these directories are picked up in
> all sub-directory searches, touches, etc and they shouldn't be. This is
> Subversion private data that I should not be messing with yet a simple
> directory for a particular file mask that includes sub directories will find
> data in .SVN directory
Hopefully, by "hidden" you mean has the hidden attribute set. AFAIK, in
Windows this is only used for displaying the item in directory lists.
There should be few applications (and Subversion should not be one of
them) that use it for anything else.
On Unix .svn is "hidden" because it begins with a dot. This is standard
practice for things that users normally don't want cluttering up their
listings. It doesn't affect the file in any other way.
Perhaps for consistency (in appearance, if not in practice) Subversion
should set the hidden attribute in Windows.
I would be very surprised if doing this manually would cause any
problems. For your search problems, it sounds like you just need tools
which can understand an option to ignore hidden items. Windows XP
search has such an option, for starters.
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RE: .svn Directory Question
Posted by Jack Repenning <jr...@collab.net>.
> In the later one kfogel says they "concluded that 'hidden' was not
> appropriate for .svn". I haven't read the earlier thread so I don't
> know why.
Well, Karl's summary may not have been entirely thorough. As I read the
original discussion, the idea trickled away because Windows hidden
directories don't hide things quite as well as some people wanted them
to (didn't accomplish the requirements of the original suggester).
But it's all very odd, since I don't think Unix dot files accomplish
those goals, either. Windows hidden-file semantics are definitely
different from Unix dot-file semantics. It does no good to say simply
"it's 'hidden' on Unix, it should be 'hidden' on Windows." But heck,
man: Windows anything-you-care-to-name semantics are "definitely
different" from Unix closest-analogue semantics, that's no argument,
either.
What we should do is decide if there's some value to Windows hiding, and
if so prioritize the change based on that value. Windows hiding does
two things:
* Naïve users casually browsing around using Windows Explorer or "dir"
(those who don't set the Folder Option) don't see them.
* Naïve users searching with Windows Explorer (those who don't check the
search option) don't see them.
Those seem like good things to me, but they don't seem particularly
urgent or crucial things.
-===-
Jack Repenning
CollabNet, Inc.
o: 650.228.2562
c: 408.835.8090
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Re: .svn Directory Question
Posted by Edmund Horner <ed...@chrysophylax.cjb.net>.
> I have some questions about the .svn subdirectory on windows. On Linux it
> is a hidden directory while on windows platforms it is not.
>
> 1. Was this done intentionally because of some requirement of subversion on
> windows
> 2. Will it do any harm if I flag those subdirectories as hidden. (NOTE: I
> have tried it already on a test repository and working directory and it does
> not seem to harm anything but I thought I should ask.)
>
> The reason I want to do this is because these directories are picked up in
> all sub-directory searches, touches, etc and they shouldn't be. This is
> Subversion private data that I should not be messing with yet a simple
> directory for a particular file mask that includes sub directories will find
> data in .SVN directory
As for the idea of getting Subversion to set the hidden attribute, there
are some mailing list discussions on this:
2003-01-25 "hide .svn on win"
http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=30009
2002-09-06 "Why not hide .SVN dir on windows?"
http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=21394&list=dev
In the later one kfogel says they "concluded that 'hidden' was not
appropriate for .svn". I haven't read the earlier thread so I don't
know why.
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