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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de> on 2005/08/25 09:23:20 UTC
Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
"Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>I've been having the same issue using Velocity to autogenerate XML. There's
>a benefit to using an XML editor on the template (I'm using the XML buddy
>plugin) since it does autocompletions, etc. But most editors choke on the
>extra-XML syntax (such as #if's).
Well, one thing that we have to think about is, that Velocity is not
just a "XML-ish" tool. I use Velocity to build free-form documents,
transform CSV lists and do many more things, that are not at all
related to any markup language.
Would it really make sense to have markups for the language?
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
xmlns:velocity="something reasonable">
[...]
<body>
<velocity:if>some condition here</velocity:/if>
<velocity:set>a=0</velocity:set>
<velocity:else/>
<velocity:set>a=1</velocity:set>
<velocity:end/>
</body>
</html>
I think we should learn from the painful experiences with
Jelly. Writing a programming language in XML is not only not very
efficient; noone really likes to write programs by hand in XML and
trying to do multi-tag things like #if .. #elif #else #end in any sort
of markup leads to unspeakable horrors.
(There was a nice "letter to the editor" by Ralf Engelschall (ASF
member and author of mod_rewrite) in the 9/2005 issue of the german iX
magazine. It basically stated "XML is fine as long as there are
machines on both sides of a communication. As soon as a human is
involved, XML is not really the best solution". While I don't agree
totally with him, he does have a point.
The current Velocity syntax is quite readable even in larger
templates.
>Anyone have other experiences?
To be honest: Velocity is such a widely accepted standard, that I'm
happy that most editors are able to deal with Velocity #tags. I have a
plugin for Eclipse and emacs can deal with it. :-)
One of the strong things about Velocity is that we do not have
open-tag .. close-tag constructs like PHP or JSP (shameless plug: see
http://henning.schmiedehausen.org/velocity/Jakarta%20Velocity.pdf,
page 6). Let's keep it that way.
Regards
Henning
--
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hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
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Re: escaping velocity
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
There's a bug or two with the escaping. see
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=28528
Eventually we'll dig into this.
Try following Nathan's suggestion, but bear in mind you might be hitting
this item or a variant.
WILL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Bubna" <nb...@gmail.com>
To: "Velocity Developers List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>; "Llewellyn
Falco" <is...@setgame.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: escaping velocity
i'm not sure why $object.get${methods}() is giving you a syntax error.
if there is no "getGet", "getget", or get("get") method for your
$object, then you should still get $object.getMethod() in your output
(though that will trigger an invalid reference message in your logs).
anyway, if you have done ctx.put("methods", "Method") and do the
following in your template...
#set( $D = '$' )
${D}object.get${methods}()
then you should get...
$object.getMethod()
after your first pass (with no invalid reference messages).
if you are still getting a syntax error, then perhaps parser is
(wrongly) bothered by the parentheses. in that case, try
#set( $D = '$' )
#set( $PS = '()' )
${D}object.get${methods}${PS}
On 8/29/05, Llewellyn Falco <is...@setgame.com> wrote:
> interesting escaping rule...
>
> \$object.method()
>
> could parse to
> \$object.method()
> $object.method()
>
> depending on weather or not method is defined...
>
> which brings an interesting question.
> i want to generate a velocity template.
> final result looks like
> ---
> $object.getMethod()
> ---
> i have context
> put("methods", "Method")
>
>
> i could write
> \$object.get${methods}()
> but since $object.get is undefined, this would parse to
> \$object.getMethod()
> which be what i want.
>
> of course i could do
> $object.get${methods}()
>
> but that's a syntax error.
>
> so any suggestion?
>
>
>
> llewellyn.
>
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Re: escaping velocity
Posted by Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>.
i'm not sure why $object.get${methods}() is giving you a syntax error.
if there is no "getGet", "getget", or get("get") method for your
$object, then you should still get $object.getMethod() in your output
(though that will trigger an invalid reference message in your logs).
anyway, if you have done ctx.put("methods", "Method") and do the
following in your template...
#set( $D = '$' )
${D}object.get${methods}()
then you should get...
$object.getMethod()
after your first pass (with no invalid reference messages).
if you are still getting a syntax error, then perhaps parser is
(wrongly) bothered by the parentheses. in that case, try
#set( $D = '$' )
#set( $PS = '()' )
${D}object.get${methods}${PS}
On 8/29/05, Llewellyn Falco <is...@setgame.com> wrote:
> interesting escaping rule...
>
> \$object.method()
>
> could parse to
> \$object.method()
> $object.method()
>
> depending on weather or not method is defined...
>
> which brings an interesting question.
> i want to generate a velocity template.
> final result looks like
> ---
> $object.getMethod()
> ---
> i have context
> put("methods", "Method")
>
>
> i could write
> \$object.get${methods}()
> but since $object.get is undefined, this would parse to
> \$object.getMethod()
> which be what i want.
>
> of course i could do
> $object.get${methods}()
>
> but that's a syntax error.
>
> so any suggestion?
>
>
>
> llewellyn.
>
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> One of the strong things about Velocity is that we do not have
> open-tag .. close-tag constructs like PHP or JSP (shameless plug: see
> http://henning.schmiedehausen.org/velocity/Jakarta%20Velocity.pdf,
> page 6). Let's keep it that way.
Totally agree!
best,
-Rob
>
> Regards
> Henning
>
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escaping velocity
Posted by Llewellyn Falco <is...@setgame.com>.
interesting escaping rule...
\$object.method()
could parse to
\$object.method()
$object.method()
depending on weather or not method is defined...
which brings an interesting question.
i want to generate a velocity template.
final result looks like
---
$object.getMethod()
---
i have context
put("methods", "Method")
i could write
\$object.get${methods}()
but since $object.get is undefined, this would parse to
\$object.getMethod()
which be what i want.
of course i could do
$object.get${methods}()
but that's a syntax error.
so any suggestion?
llewellyn.
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>Yes. The correct list should be:
>'and', 'or', 'lt', 'gt', 'le', 'ge', 'eq', 'ne', 'not'
>(the last two were missing from the changelog)
xor? (SCNR :-) )
Regards
Henning
--
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hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
Yes. The correct list should be:
'and', 'or', 'lt', 'gt', 'le', 'ge', 'eq', 'ne', 'not'
(the last two were missing from the changelog)
WILL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>
Newsgroups: hometree.jakarta.velocity.dev
To: <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity Markup
> "Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>
>>Yes! This requires the (unreleased) Velocity 1.5. You'll need to
>>download
>>the nightly snapshot if you're not using it.
>
>>Here's the new operators:
>
>>'and', 'or', 'lt', 'gt', 'le', 'ge', 'eq'.
>
> 'ne' (not equal) ?
>
> Regards
> Henning
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
> hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
>
> RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
> Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Development
>
> 4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>.
"Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>Yes! This requires the (unreleased) Velocity 1.5. You'll need to download
>the nightly snapshot if you're not using it.
>Here's the new operators:
>'and', 'or', 'lt', 'gt', 'le', 'ge', 'eq'.
'ne' (not equal) ?
Regards
Henning
--
Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Development
4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
Yes! This requires the (unreleased) Velocity 1.5. You'll need to download
the nightly snapshot if you're not using it.
Here's the new operators:
'and', 'or', 'lt', 'gt', 'le', 'ge', 'eq'.
WILL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Koberg" <ro...@koberg.com>
To: "Velocity Developers List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity Markup
> Will Glass-Husain wrote:
>> Incidentally, my XML editor complains about this as well (invalid <
>> character). I checked the Velocity source and found out that there are
>> alternate operands such as "lt". Nice!
>
>
> Ufff... Now I have some content to go and edit :) Is there something for
> '&&'? -- greater-than '>' is OK for for XML.
>
>
> I have been using templates in XSL to handle it (I know, uuggghh). I have
> used the template/@match when it is in the source (#if ($foo <d:and/>
> $bar)...) and template/@name when it is in the XSL (#if ($foo
> <xsl:call-template name="dynamic_and"/> $bar)...):
>
> <!-- this is a hack!!! -->
> <xsl:template name="d:and">
> <xsl:call-template name="dynamic_and"/>
> </xsl:template>
> <xsl:template name="dynamic_and">
> <xsl:text disable-output-escaping="yes">&&</xsl:text>
> </xsl:template>
> <!--
> -->
> <xsl:template match="d:less-than">
> <xsl:call-template name="dynamic_less-than"/>
> </xsl:template>
> <xsl:template name="dynamic_less-than">
> <xsl:text disable-output-escaping="yes"><</xsl:text>
> </xsl:template>
> <!--
> -->
>
> best,
> -Rob
>
>
>>
>> <Worksheet ss:Name="Data" ss:Protected="1">
>>
>> #if($cols < $mincols)
>> #set($cols = $mincols)
>> #end
>>
>> <Table ss:ExpandedColumnCount="$cols" ss:ExpandedRowCount="$rowcount">
>> etc.
>>
>> WILL
>
>
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Re: Velocity Markup
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Will Glass-Husain wrote:
> Incidentally, my XML editor complains about this as well (invalid <
> character). I checked the Velocity source and found out that there are
> alternate operands such as "lt". Nice!
Ufff... Now I have some content to go and edit :) Is there something for
'&&'? -- greater-than '>' is OK for for XML.
I have been using templates in XSL to handle it (I know, uuggghh). I
have used the template/@match when it is in the source (#if ($foo
<d:and/> $bar)...) and template/@name when it is in the XSL (#if ($foo
<xsl:call-template name="dynamic_and"/> $bar)...):
<!-- this is a hack!!! -->
<xsl:template name="d:and">
<xsl:call-template name="dynamic_and"/>
</xsl:template>
<xsl:template name="dynamic_and">
<xsl:text disable-output-escaping="yes">&&</xsl:text>
</xsl:template>
<!--
-->
<xsl:template match="d:less-than">
<xsl:call-template name="dynamic_less-than"/>
</xsl:template>
<xsl:template name="dynamic_less-than">
<xsl:text disable-output-escaping="yes"><</xsl:text>
</xsl:template>
<!--
-->
best,
-Rob
>
> <Worksheet ss:Name="Data" ss:Protected="1">
>
> #if($cols < $mincols)
> #set($cols = $mincols)
> #end
>
> <Table ss:ExpandedColumnCount="$cols" ss:ExpandedRowCount="$rowcount">
> etc.
>
> WILL
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Re: Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
Incidentally, my XML editor complains about this as well (invalid <
character). I checked the Velocity source and found out that there are
alternate operands such as "lt". Nice!
<Worksheet ss:Name="Data" ss:Protected="1">
#if($cols < $mincols)
#set($cols = $mincols)
#end
<Table ss:ExpandedColumnCount="$cols" ss:ExpandedRowCount="$rowcount">
etc.
WILL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com>
To: "Velocity Developers List" <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>;
<hp...@intermeta.de>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
> Interesting thoughts from both Robert and Henning - thanks.
>
> Robert, thanks for explaining how your XSL content management works. Very
> interesting. I see why you want to do the XML processing before the
> Velocity processing.
>
> Henning, I don't think we need to implement a XML format for Velocity.
> Just trying to see what's the most practical way to help users do XML
> templates with Velocity. The Eclipse VeloEdit editor does a nice job of
> supporting HTML and Velocity tags - there's no reason why an editor
> couldn't support XML and Velocity as well. Ah, well - I don't do this
> often enough to make a concerted effort to make a custom editor plugin.
> (most of my Velocity work is HTML with only occasional forays into XML).
>
> As a side note - in my latest project I've been using Velocity to generate
> Excel spreadsheets with the Excel 2003 XML format. It's really
> interesting to see how applicable this technology is now that more and
> more of the world is moving to text formats.
>
> Best,
>
> WILL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>
> Newsgroups: hometree.jakarta.velocity.dev
> To: <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:23 AM
> Subject: Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
>
>
>> "Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>>
>>>I've been having the same issue using Velocity to autogenerate XML.
>>>There's
>>>a benefit to using an XML editor on the template (I'm using the XML buddy
>>>plugin) since it does autocompletions, etc. But most editors choke on
>>>the
>>>extra-XML syntax (such as #if's).
>>
>> Well, one thing that we have to think about is, that Velocity is not
>> just a "XML-ish" tool. I use Velocity to build free-form documents,
>> transform CSV lists and do many more things, that are not at all
>> related to any markup language.
>>
>> Would it really make sense to have markups for the language?
>>
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>> xmlns:velocity="something reasonable">
>> [...]
>> <body>
>> <velocity:if>some condition here</velocity:/if>
>> <velocity:set>a=0</velocity:set>
>> <velocity:else/>
>> <velocity:set>a=1</velocity:set>
>> <velocity:end/>
>> </body>
>>
>> </html>
>>
>> I think we should learn from the painful experiences with
>> Jelly. Writing a programming language in XML is not only not very
>> efficient; noone really likes to write programs by hand in XML and
>> trying to do multi-tag things like #if .. #elif #else #end in any sort
>> of markup leads to unspeakable horrors.
>>
>> (There was a nice "letter to the editor" by Ralf Engelschall (ASF
>> member and author of mod_rewrite) in the 9/2005 issue of the german iX
>> magazine. It basically stated "XML is fine as long as there are
>> machines on both sides of a communication. As soon as a human is
>> involved, XML is not really the best solution". While I don't agree
>> totally with him, he does have a point.
>>
>> The current Velocity syntax is quite readable even in larger
>> templates.
>>
>>>Anyone have other experiences?
>>
>> To be honest: Velocity is such a widely accepted standard, that I'm
>> happy that most editors are able to deal with Velocity #tags. I have a
>> plugin for Eclipse and emacs can deal with it. :-)
>>
>> One of the strong things about Velocity is that we do not have
>> open-tag .. close-tag constructs like PHP or JSP (shameless plug: see
>> http://henning.schmiedehausen.org/velocity/Jakarta%20Velocity.pdf,
>> page 6). Let's keep it that way.
>>
>> Regards
>> Henning
>>
>> --
>> Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
>> hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
>>
>> RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for
>> hire
>> Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Development
>>
>> 4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: velocity-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
Posted by Will Glass-Husain <wg...@forio.com>.
Interesting thoughts from both Robert and Henning - thanks.
Robert, thanks for explaining how your XSL content management works. Very
interesting. I see why you want to do the XML processing before the
Velocity processing.
Henning, I don't think we need to implement a XML format for Velocity. Just
trying to see what's the most practical way to help users do XML templates
with Velocity. The Eclipse VeloEdit editor does a nice job of supporting
HTML and Velocity tags - there's no reason why an editor couldn't support
XML and Velocity as well. Ah, well - I don't do this often enough to make a
concerted effort to make a custom editor plugin. (most of my Velocity work
is HTML with only occasional forays into XML).
As a side note - in my latest project I've been using Velocity to generate
Excel spreadsheets with the Excel 2003 XML format. It's really interesting
to see how applicable this technology is now that more and more of the world
is moving to text formats.
Best,
WILL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" <hp...@intermeta.de>
Newsgroups: hometree.jakarta.velocity.dev
To: <ve...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Velocity Markup (was: Re: XML in templates)
> "Will Glass-Husain" <wg...@forio.com> writes:
>
>>I've been having the same issue using Velocity to autogenerate XML.
>>There's
>>a benefit to using an XML editor on the template (I'm using the XML buddy
>>plugin) since it does autocompletions, etc. But most editors choke on the
>>extra-XML syntax (such as #if's).
>
> Well, one thing that we have to think about is, that Velocity is not
> just a "XML-ish" tool. I use Velocity to build free-form documents,
> transform CSV lists and do many more things, that are not at all
> related to any markup language.
>
> Would it really make sense to have markups for the language?
>
> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
> xmlns:velocity="something reasonable">
> [...]
> <body>
> <velocity:if>some condition here</velocity:/if>
> <velocity:set>a=0</velocity:set>
> <velocity:else/>
> <velocity:set>a=1</velocity:set>
> <velocity:end/>
> </body>
>
> </html>
>
> I think we should learn from the painful experiences with
> Jelly. Writing a programming language in XML is not only not very
> efficient; noone really likes to write programs by hand in XML and
> trying to do multi-tag things like #if .. #elif #else #end in any sort
> of markup leads to unspeakable horrors.
>
> (There was a nice "letter to the editor" by Ralf Engelschall (ASF
> member and author of mod_rewrite) in the 9/2005 issue of the german iX
> magazine. It basically stated "XML is fine as long as there are
> machines on both sides of a communication. As soon as a human is
> involved, XML is not really the best solution". While I don't agree
> totally with him, he does have a point.
>
> The current Velocity syntax is quite readable even in larger
> templates.
>
>>Anyone have other experiences?
>
> To be honest: Velocity is such a widely accepted standard, that I'm
> happy that most editors are able to deal with Velocity #tags. I have a
> plugin for Eclipse and emacs can deal with it. :-)
>
> One of the strong things about Velocity is that we do not have
> open-tag .. close-tag constructs like PHP or JSP (shameless plug: see
> http://henning.schmiedehausen.org/velocity/Jakarta%20Velocity.pdf,
> page 6). Let's keep it that way.
>
> Regards
> Henning
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH
> hps@intermeta.de +49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/
>
> RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
> Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Development
>
> 4 - 8 - 15 - 16 - 23 - 42
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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