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Posted to dev@harmony.apache.org by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> on 2008/03/02 22:04:34 UTC
I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Guys, I think you need to make an explicit note on the installer site...
CANNOT BE COMPILED ON WINDOWS
The problem is the MS tools have moved on... 2003 cannot be found.
There seems to be a massive change on 2005 and up compilers.
Just about everything is deprecated, the headers seemed to have changed alot from linux compilers.
Or more simply... VS is now windows only.
I've being trying from the ant builds and also from VS 2005 directly...
You literally have to rewrite the code...
I see the Sun JVM does also not support development on the MS platform, whether that is strategic or
a technical issue as well, I'm not sure, I think its the former.
I'm not up on all the compilers but from googling, there does not seem to be a compiler that one
can readily use on MS.
If you want to attract developers in this market... you have to show them how to do it, or find an
old MS compiler and stick it on a FTP server or something.
We going to setup a linux dev environment for this, but that immediately reduces my local skills to a
grand total of one ;)
Possibly Cygwin is the way to go... I know that can tie up with netbeans, but I'm not sure about
eclipse.
Its a massive project... if the user cannot get it to their familiar dev environment... it becomes a
1 month excercise to just get going...
The divergence in tools is throwing away a huge developer market... very unfortunate.
Sorry... I just cant figure out a way to get it going... and if we do port it to MS tools, it will
never be compatible again with the CVS.
... snookered ;)
Re: [build][windows] Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ellison" <t....@gmail.com>
To: <de...@harmony.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:41 AM
Subject: [build][windows] Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer
Pages
> Also worth looking at the environment that Dims used to compile on
> Windows, using the no-cost MS compiler and tools,
>
> - Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2
> - Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition
> - Microsoft Macro Assembler 8.0 (MASM) Package (x86)
>
> See [1]. Not sure if he wrote a wiki page / whatever with the final
> outcome.
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/o4dwghamsbjq46ey
Sheeeeeeessss ... are these guys good, or what.... eXcellent... damn!
ATL in Harmony... wonder what they doing there?
Thanks Tim... I'll try put the words of the gods into practice ;)
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> Mark Hindess wrote:
>> On 3 March 2008 at 2:18, "Johnny Kewl" <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>>> I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
>>> windows and can interface with
>>> an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
>>> Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
>>> going to be much easier than
>>> trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
Yes I did end up looking at MinGw, and I got it going with Eclipse... that
still wants
Cygwin as well btw, even though it does nothing... its a mission to setup
but it works.
The problem though is that "this project is wild", where these tools seem to
fall down
is when MS gets crazy with COM... more than just a DLL... or I just have no
idea
how to go there in this environment. This project I think has to go up the
MS tool chain.
And probably does already...
Problem also is I been out of C programming for about 5 years... so damn I'm
rusty.
>> You might want to take a look at www.mingw.org - this is a compiler (and
>> complete toolchain) based on gcc that compiles against native windows
>> apis (rather than against cygwin dlls).
>>
>> -Mark.
>>
>>
>>
>
[build][windows] Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Also worth looking at the environment that Dims used to compile on
Windows, using the no-cost MS compiler and tools,
- Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2
- Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition
- Microsoft Macro Assembler 8.0 (MASM) Package (x86)
See [1]. Not sure if he wrote a wiki page / whatever with the final
outcome.
[1] http://markmail.org/message/o4dwghamsbjq46ey
Regards,
Tim
Mark Hindess wrote:
> On 3 March 2008 at 2:18, "Johnny Kewl" <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>> I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
>> windows and can interface with
>> an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
>> Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
>> going to be much easier than
>> trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
>
> You might want to take a look at www.mingw.org - this is a compiler (and
> complete toolchain) based on gcc that compiles against native windows
> apis (rather than against cygwin dlls).
>
> -Mark.
>
>
>
Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Mark Hindess <ma...@googlemail.com>.
On 3 March 2008 at 2:18, "Johnny Kewl" <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>
> I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
> windows and can interface with
> an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
> Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
> going to be much easier than
> trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
You might want to take a look at www.mingw.org - this is a compiler (and
complete toolchain) based on gcc that compiles against native windows
apis (rather than against cygwin dlls).
-Mark.
Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Beyer" <nb...@gmail.com>
To: <de...@harmony.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
> If you can get everything massaged to compile on VS2008 or VS2005,
> we'd certainly take a serious look at it. The current state of affairs
> isn't a statement of any sort, it's just what we've come to so far.
> The community drives development, so it's just a matter of getting the
> community interested and motivated.
Ha ha... how many years has it taken already...
I'm thinking here... versions are been released right... they target windows
32 and 64 bit right.
Why dont we just ask the guy/gal that is compiling the windows stuff up, how
they do it?
They must be using a recent compiler... and for 64 bit its probably a
current windows release.
I'm thinking there are two versions of this project? .... we just got to
find the other one ;)
I'm thinking maybe there a cold war going on ;) I can act as a go between,
we from Africa and have
one foot in Russia, one foot in the USA and the rest dangling in the
atlantic ;)
The more I think about it, the more I'm sure its been done already... makes
one wonder hey ;)
> -Nathan
>
> On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nathan Beyer" <nb...@gmail.com>
>> To: <de...@harmony.apache.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
>>
>>
>> > There are plenty of places that still sell VS.NET 2003 -
>> >
>> http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&hs=XOH&resnum=0&q=visual+studio+2003&um=1&ie=UTF-
>>
>> What do you know... and its not even listed on the MS site anymore ;)
>> I still think this is a problem waiting to happen anyway... also hard to
>> convince a company that
>> just licensed 2008 to go back and license 2003.... no there has to be a
>> better way.
>> Somehow find a way to bring MS developers in line with the Linux guys...
>> so
>> they can work in
>> Harmony ... ha ha
>>
>> I've just had a good look at Cygwin... no, because it creates
>> dependencies
>> on its dlls, and java
>> still lives outside on the MS systems so /linux to c:\ path conversions
>> would drive people mad...
>> So cygwin is out I think....
>>
>> I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
>> windows and can interface with
>> an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
>> Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
>> going to be much easier than
>> trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
>>
>> Dont worry I'm not blaming you... I can see the MS has forked off at a
>> tangent (again!) ha ha
>> ... but there is a problem...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > -Nathan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>
>> wrote:
>> >> Guys, I think you need to make an explicit note on the installer
>> site...
>> >> CANNOT BE COMPILED ON WINDOWS
>> >>
>> >> The problem is the MS tools have moved on... 2003 cannot be found.
>> >> There seems to be a massive change on 2005 and up compilers.
>> >> Just about everything is deprecated, the headers seemed to have
>> changed
>> >> alot from linux compilers.
>> >> Or more simply... VS is now windows only.
>> >>
>> >> I've being trying from the ant builds and also from VS 2005
>> directly...
>> >> You literally have to rewrite the code...
>> >>
>> >> I see the Sun JVM does also not support development on the MS
>> platform,
>> >> whether that is strategic or
>> >> a technical issue as well, I'm not sure, I think its the former.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not up on all the compilers but from googling, there does not
>> seem
>> >> to be a compiler that one
>> >> can readily use on MS.
>> >>
>> >> If you want to attract developers in this market... you have to show
>> >> them how to do it, or find an
>> >> old MS compiler and stick it on a FTP server or something.
>> >>
>> >> We going to setup a linux dev environment for this, but that
>> immediately
>> >> reduces my local skills to a
>> >> grand total of one ;)
>> >> Possibly Cygwin is the way to go... I know that can tie up with
>> >> netbeans, but I'm not sure about
>> >> eclipse.
>> >>
>> >> Its a massive project... if the user cannot get it to their familiar
>> dev
>> >> environment... it becomes a
>> >> 1 month excercise to just get going...
>> >> The divergence in tools is throwing away a huge developer market...
>> very
>> >> unfortunate.
>> >> Sorry... I just cant figure out a way to get it going... and if we
>> do
>> >> port it to MS tools, it will
>> >> never be compatible again with the CVS.
>> >> ... snookered ;)
>> >
>>
>>
>
Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>.
If you can get everything massaged to compile on VS2008 or VS2005,
we'd certainly take a serious look at it. The current state of affairs
isn't a statement of any sort, it's just what we've come to so far.
The community drives development, so it's just a matter of getting the
community interested and motivated.
-Nathan
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan Beyer" <nb...@gmail.com>
> To: <de...@harmony.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
>
>
> > There are plenty of places that still sell VS.NET 2003 -
> > http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&hs=XOH&resnum=0&q=visual+studio+2003&um=1&ie=UTF-
>
> What do you know... and its not even listed on the MS site anymore ;)
> I still think this is a problem waiting to happen anyway... also hard to
> convince a company that
> just licensed 2008 to go back and license 2003.... no there has to be a
> better way.
> Somehow find a way to bring MS developers in line with the Linux guys... so
> they can work in
> Harmony ... ha ha
>
> I've just had a good look at Cygwin... no, because it creates dependencies
> on its dlls, and java
> still lives outside on the MS systems so /linux to c:\ path conversions
> would drive people mad...
> So cygwin is out I think....
>
> I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
> windows and can interface with
> an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
> Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
> going to be much easier than
> trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
>
> Dont worry I'm not blaming you... I can see the MS has forked off at a
> tangent (again!) ha ha
> ... but there is a problem...
>
>
>
>
> > -Nathan
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> >> Guys, I think you need to make an explicit note on the installer site...
> >> CANNOT BE COMPILED ON WINDOWS
> >>
> >> The problem is the MS tools have moved on... 2003 cannot be found.
> >> There seems to be a massive change on 2005 and up compilers.
> >> Just about everything is deprecated, the headers seemed to have changed
> >> alot from linux compilers.
> >> Or more simply... VS is now windows only.
> >>
> >> I've being trying from the ant builds and also from VS 2005 directly...
> >> You literally have to rewrite the code...
> >>
> >> I see the Sun JVM does also not support development on the MS platform,
> >> whether that is strategic or
> >> a technical issue as well, I'm not sure, I think its the former.
> >>
> >> I'm not up on all the compilers but from googling, there does not seem
> >> to be a compiler that one
> >> can readily use on MS.
> >>
> >> If you want to attract developers in this market... you have to show
> >> them how to do it, or find an
> >> old MS compiler and stick it on a FTP server or something.
> >>
> >> We going to setup a linux dev environment for this, but that immediately
> >> reduces my local skills to a
> >> grand total of one ;)
> >> Possibly Cygwin is the way to go... I know that can tie up with
> >> netbeans, but I'm not sure about
> >> eclipse.
> >>
> >> Its a massive project... if the user cannot get it to their familiar dev
> >> environment... it becomes a
> >> 1 month excercise to just get going...
> >> The divergence in tools is throwing away a huge developer market... very
> >> unfortunate.
> >> Sorry... I just cant figure out a way to get it going... and if we do
> >> port it to MS tools, it will
> >> never be compatible again with the CVS.
> >> ... snookered ;)
> >
>
>
Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Beyer" <nb...@gmail.com>
To: <de...@harmony.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
> There are plenty of places that still sell VS.NET 2003 -
> http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&hs=XOH&resnum=0&q=visual+studio+2003&um=1&ie=UTF-
What do you know... and its not even listed on the MS site anymore ;)
I still think this is a problem waiting to happen anyway... also hard to
convince a company that
just licensed 2008 to go back and license 2003.... no there has to be a
better way.
Somehow find a way to bring MS developers in line with the Linux guys... so
they can work in
Harmony ... ha ha
I've just had a good look at Cygwin... no, because it creates dependencies
on its dlls, and java
still lives outside on the MS systems so /linux to c:\ path conversions
would drive people mad...
So cygwin is out I think....
I think it all really comes down to finding a GCC compiler that likes
windows and can interface with
an decent IDE... the MS dudes will be happy.
Havnt quite given up yet... for me getting the code to the developer is
going to be much easier than
trying to get the devloper onto linux.... so I'm trying.
Dont worry I'm not blaming you... I can see the MS has forked off at a
tangent (again!) ha ha
... but there is a problem...
> -Nathan
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>> Guys, I think you need to make an explicit note on the installer site...
>> CANNOT BE COMPILED ON WINDOWS
>>
>> The problem is the MS tools have moved on... 2003 cannot be found.
>> There seems to be a massive change on 2005 and up compilers.
>> Just about everything is deprecated, the headers seemed to have changed
>> alot from linux compilers.
>> Or more simply... VS is now windows only.
>>
>> I've being trying from the ant builds and also from VS 2005 directly...
>> You literally have to rewrite the code...
>>
>> I see the Sun JVM does also not support development on the MS platform,
>> whether that is strategic or
>> a technical issue as well, I'm not sure, I think its the former.
>>
>> I'm not up on all the compilers but from googling, there does not seem
>> to be a compiler that one
>> can readily use on MS.
>>
>> If you want to attract developers in this market... you have to show
>> them how to do it, or find an
>> old MS compiler and stick it on a FTP server or something.
>>
>> We going to setup a linux dev environment for this, but that immediately
>> reduces my local skills to a
>> grand total of one ;)
>> Possibly Cygwin is the way to go... I know that can tie up with
>> netbeans, but I'm not sure about
>> eclipse.
>>
>> Its a massive project... if the user cannot get it to their familiar dev
>> environment... it becomes a
>> 1 month excercise to just get going...
>> The divergence in tools is throwing away a huge developer market... very
>> unfortunate.
>> Sorry... I just cant figure out a way to get it going... and if we do
>> port it to MS tools, it will
>> never be compatible again with the CVS.
>> ... snookered ;)
>
Re: I think - Remove Microsoft from Installer Pages
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>.
There are plenty of places that still sell VS.NET 2003 -
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&hs=XOH&resnum=0&q=visual+studio+2003&um=1&ie=UTF-8
-Nathan
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> Guys, I think you need to make an explicit note on the installer site...
> CANNOT BE COMPILED ON WINDOWS
>
> The problem is the MS tools have moved on... 2003 cannot be found.
> There seems to be a massive change on 2005 and up compilers.
> Just about everything is deprecated, the headers seemed to have changed alot from linux compilers.
> Or more simply... VS is now windows only.
>
> I've being trying from the ant builds and also from VS 2005 directly...
> You literally have to rewrite the code...
>
> I see the Sun JVM does also not support development on the MS platform, whether that is strategic or
> a technical issue as well, I'm not sure, I think its the former.
>
> I'm not up on all the compilers but from googling, there does not seem to be a compiler that one
> can readily use on MS.
>
> If you want to attract developers in this market... you have to show them how to do it, or find an
> old MS compiler and stick it on a FTP server or something.
>
> We going to setup a linux dev environment for this, but that immediately reduces my local skills to a
> grand total of one ;)
> Possibly Cygwin is the way to go... I know that can tie up with netbeans, but I'm not sure about
> eclipse.
>
> Its a massive project... if the user cannot get it to their familiar dev environment... it becomes a
> 1 month excercise to just get going...
> The divergence in tools is throwing away a huge developer market... very unfortunate.
> Sorry... I just cant figure out a way to get it going... and if we do port it to MS tools, it will
> never be compatible again with the CVS.
> ... snookered ;)