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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as> on 2012/08/02 01:03:34 UTC
[ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
All,
Some of you may have seen tweets and emails concerning a Apache Flex
Steering Survey which currently has more than 375 respondents since July
26th.
With the successful release of Apache Flex 4.8.0-incubating (previously
announced below) it is timely to have a discussion/consensus around the
priorities going forward. Below is a link to a survey that will help
guide discussions on objectives, priorities, features and functions
(roadmap) that can guide effort over the next 6-12 months. This survey
is 8 questions and should take less than 5 minutes to complete. Your
input is extremely important to the project - thank you for your time.
The survey will be open until Aug 21st.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TWTJ2VS
More background:
The Apache Flex Steering Survey is being organized and executed by
members of the 'Open Spoon Foundation' (www.spoon.as) and affiliates in
support of the Apache Flex Project. The Foundation (not-for-profit
foundation) setup by the Adobe community in 2011 to capture the
collective experience of those individuals implementing solutions on the
Flex framework and to apply that knowledge in a constructive manner
through defect patching, feature contribution and addressing aspects of
the framework that limit extensibility. Spoon's has a membership of
several hundred and growing (a number of who are Apache Flex committers
and PMC members). The survey is part of an effort to bring the community
together, plan and organize ourselves to move forward from the recent
4.8.0-incubating release. The next 6 months will be an important stage
for Apache Flex during which Adobe's code/effort donations will be
finalized and the first true 'new' release will be undertaken. It is
also a critical time in the market to begin rebuilding interest and
commitment in the technology. The chances of success at this environment
will be greatly improved by a coordinated community effort towards the
right objectives, which is what the steering survey is going to
contribute towards. The survey is live right now & will remain open
until August 21st, the data is meant to be used by Spoon and the Apache
Flex project. No commercial or personal information will be shared
publically, only aggregated results for the purpose of defining
objectives, features and functions as part of the roadmap
planning/organizing discussion.
On 7/25/2012 12:25 PM, Keith Sutton wrote:
> With the successful release of 4.8.0-incubating it would be timely to
> have a discussion/consensus around the priorities going forward.
>
> A couple of fundamental factors should be considered in this discussion:
>
> 1) Adobe resources are not indefinite and from statements made
> early in the year it is possible they may no longer be available
> within 6+/- months (plan for the worst case). Once these resources
> are gone it will be significantly harder to access/transition code
> assets;
>
> 2) Successful open source projects/communities are commercially
> viable, as much as open source is about cool technologies and code
> it is also about having the resources to do what they want for as
> long as they want;
>
> 3) Within the Fortune 1000 companies which has the greater
> installed base and therefore need for support/transition - Flex 3;
>
> 4) This is not a typical open source project that grows over time,
> this is a commercially viable product with a significant customer
> base and ecosystem, Apache Flex does not have the luxury of time
> as organizations wrestle with the decisions in the 6-12 months
> over Flex versus HTML5/JS/CSS (hope is not a roadmap).
>
> After gleaning through emails and blog posts the following is a list
> of potential things-to-do-next (please identify anything needing
> addition/deletion). When considering what is a priority, ask yourself
> 'is this essential to Apache Flex success beyond the next 6-12 months':
>
> 1) 4.6 ViewStack
> 2) 4.6 Accordion
> 3) 4.6 DateField
> 4) 4.6 DataChooser
> 5) 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid
> 6) 4.6 missing automation libraries
> 7) 4.6 missing fabridge
> 8) 4.6 missing flash-integration
> 9) 4.6 missing samples
> 10) 4.6 missing embedded font support
> 11) 3.x Flex SDK
> 12) Flex compiler source code
> 13) BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
> 14) TLF
> 15) Gravity
> 16) FXG
> 17) Squiggles
> 18) OSMF
>
> Notes:
> Falcon and Falcon JS are not on the list until Q4 2012 and beyond
> Adobe "Not be contributing the AIR for Linux SDK, LCDS, or LCCS to Apache"
> Adobe "will ensure that the Adobe Flex SDK 4.6 and prior will be
> supported in future versions of Flash Player and AIR
> Adobe "plans to maintain support for Flex projects in updates to Flash
> Builder 4.x"
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by John Fletcher <fl...@gmail.com>.
Agree with the idea of not using the term "roadmap". Since actually,
what we are talking about is not a roadmap at all in the conventional
sense, and is much better described with the title you mention below
Keith. In this sense it might be apropriate for the actual Flex site -
but then you would do well to watch and see if the things actually do
get implemented in the coming releases; if so continue/expand the
practice, if not, ditch it.
John
2012/8/3 Keith Sutton
> The survey/roadmap are definitely in line with your guidance and will likely
> be called "Community Objectives and Priorities for Apache Flex" and would be
> posted on the Spoon website
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
The survey/roadmap are definitely in line with your guidance and will
likely be called "Community Objectives and Priorities for Apache Flex"
and would be posted on the Spoon website. Although it cannot be binding
it does act as:
1) An expression of the community and their collective input to what
should be a objective/priority in the next 6 months (4.9/5.0 ?)
2) Feedback on the priorities of effort from Adobe (there was mention of
a 'delivery schedule', it would be good to expose that) as some elements
like Gravity may be of no interest and therefore not worth expending
limited resourses);
3) a vehicle to engage people in the project.
- in the short term people who want to work on things can use it
On 8/3/2012 5:01 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> ...There nothing saying we can't have roadmaps (AFAIK) and several other Apache projects do have them.
>> For example http://subversion.apache.org/roadmap.html...
> Agreed - it''s just that such roadmaps can easily fail, if they're too
> ambitions, and people are disappointed.
>
>> ...We just need to be a little careful and make it clear that it's not a roadmap in the traditional sense ie a list of
>> features that are planned to be done by a certain date....
> Yes, it's more a list of goals and priorities IMO - as the amount of
> effort that people put into an Apache project is unpredictable, and as
> reaching consensus sometimes takes longer than expected, I wouldn't
> put any dates on such a list.
>
> If the roadmap is driven by an external entity, please use a distinct
> name. If Spoon is driving a roadmap/wishlist, calling it "Spoon
> Roadmap" as John suggests is perfectly fine, calling it "Apache Flex
> roadmap" is not ok.
>
> -Bertrand
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> ...There nothing saying we can't have roadmaps (AFAIK) and several other Apache projects do have them.
> For example http://subversion.apache.org/roadmap.html...
Agreed - it''s just that such roadmaps can easily fail, if they're too
ambitions, and people are disappointed.
> ...We just need to be a little careful and make it clear that it's not a roadmap in the traditional sense ie a list of
> features that are planned to be done by a certain date....
Yes, it's more a list of goals and priorities IMO - as the amount of
effort that people put into an Apache project is unpredictable, and as
reaching consensus sometimes takes longer than expected, I wouldn't
put any dates on such a list.
If the roadmap is driven by an external entity, please use a distinct
name. If Spoon is driving a roadmap/wishlist, calling it "Spoon
Roadmap" as John suggests is perfectly fine, calling it "Apache Flex
roadmap" is not ok.
-Bertrand
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Squiggly and Gravity
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, it's Monocle. OK I just saw the your post on Gravity further down. I
could use something like this on a project I'm working on now.
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> Good on Squiggly Jude, Gravity below, can't find anything on Telemetry -
> did this become Monocle?
>
> On 8/5/2012 1:27 AM, jude wrote:
>
>> Squiggly is an Action Script spell checking library for developers who
>> work
>> in Adobe® Flash® Professional, Adobe Flex® Builder™, or other IDEs that
>> support ActionScript. The Squiggly package contains six .swc files – three
>> of which integration convenience classes called SpellUI, one for Flex 3,
>> another for Flex 4, and a third one for TLF. [0]
>>
>> I don't know what Gravity is either. Is it Telemetry? BTW What happened to
>> Telemetry?
>>
> Gravity
>
> "The ADEP Client Component Framework (codename Gravity) is an ActionScript
> library that takes the concepts of OSGi and applies them to ActionScript.
> It provides a module and/or plugin architecture in which individual pieces
> can be added and removed seamlessly. The Gravity SDK comes with the es-sdk
> package for Experience Services. The parts become much more independent of
> each other allowing easier integration of content from different teams or
> repurposing of existing content. It makes it easier to have a library of
> parts that are put together as needed for applications."
> http://blogs.adobe.com/**dekesmith/2011/10/17/**deconstructing-experience-
> **services-client-component-**framework-gravity/<http://blogs.adobe.com/dekesmith/2011/10/17/deconstructing-experience-services-client-component-framework-gravity/>
>
> HelloGravity Sample Application: http://blogs.adobe.com/**
> gravity/2011/09/09/**hellogravity-sample-**application/<http://blogs.adobe.com/gravity/2011/09/09/hellogravity-sample-application/>
>
> Video tutorials:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=NxLnnPm-84g&list=UU3x6nH-**
> 4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=7&**feature=plcp<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxLnnPm-84g&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=7&feature=plcp>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=Dn7R7W8QaIU&list=UU3x6nH-**
> 4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=6&**feature=plcp<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7R7W8QaIU&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=6&feature=plcp>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=PTEVNudQLWk&list=UU3x6nH-**
> 4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=5&**feature=plcp<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEVNudQLWk&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=5&feature=plcp>
>
> A similar framework is Potomac: http://www.potomacframework.**org/<http://www.potomacframework.org/>
> The Potomac Framework for Flex is:
>
> A modularity framework inspired by OSGi
> A UI composition framework that pulls user interface ‘parts’ together
> to form applications
> A general purpose business application framework (providing reusable
> features for business applications)
> A dependency injection framework
> An extensible metadata processor with reflection support
>
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Squiggly and Gravity
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
Good on Squiggly Jude, Gravity below, can't find anything on Telemetry -
did this become Monocle?
On 8/5/2012 1:27 AM, jude wrote:
> Squiggly is an Action Script spell checking library for developers who work
> in Adobe® Flash® Professional, Adobe Flex® Builder™, or other IDEs that
> support ActionScript. The Squiggly package contains six .swc files – three
> of which integration convenience classes called SpellUI, one for Flex 3,
> another for Flex 4, and a third one for TLF. [0]
>
> I don't know what Gravity is either. Is it Telemetry? BTW What happened to
> Telemetry?
Gravity
"The ADEP Client Component Framework (codename Gravity) is an
ActionScript library that takes the concepts of OSGi and applies them to
ActionScript. It provides a module and/or plugin architecture in which
individual pieces can be added and removed seamlessly. The Gravity SDK
comes with the es-sdk package for Experience Services. The parts become
much more independent of each other allowing easier integration of
content from different teams or repurposing of existing content. It
makes it easier to have a library of parts that are put together as
needed for applications."
http://blogs.adobe.com/dekesmith/2011/10/17/deconstructing-experience-services-client-component-framework-gravity/
HelloGravity Sample Application:
http://blogs.adobe.com/gravity/2011/09/09/hellogravity-sample-application/
Video tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxLnnPm-84g&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=7&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7R7W8QaIU&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=6&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEVNudQLWk&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=5&feature=plcp
A similar framework is Potomac: http://www.potomacframework.org/
The Potomac Framework for Flex is:
A modularity framework inspired by OSGi
A UI composition framework that pulls user interface ‘parts’
together to form applications
A general purpose business application framework (providing
reusable features for business applications)
A dependency injection framework
An extensible metadata processor with reflection support
RE: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by "Guthmann, Scott" <sg...@on3solutions.com>.
> Although the survey attempts to get to the bottom of feature priorities, I can't help feeling that we should be including parties other than this mailing list to take part in the survey. Although many of this list's participants including myself have an exposure > to a subset of the corporate users requirements, does anyone have any ideas how we could ( and if we should ) be trying to include the high paying end customers in our surveys ? i.e. the big corporations that were (and in some cases are) spending
> money on Flex development ? Is this information Spoon can get access to through their network?
Daniel - the survey is not part of the Apache Flex project. The survey is currently live and will be open until Aug 21st, 2012 and the survey link is here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TWTJ2VS. The survey is meant to generate interest, recruit help & engagement, and isn't limited to those participating in the project or restricted in some other way. If you wish to distribute the survey, you may. If you wish to take the survey, please do. The Apache Way allows those who wish to participate to do so without anybody's permission or guidance. Each person can scratch their own itch. My itch was facilitating a conversation around development priorities & preferences of Flex community members.
> Obviously I appreciate that some of these large spending corporations will have members monitoring this list, but some may not as they probably relied on Adobe (and partners) sales & marketing effort to keep them posted.
IMO, a very good way to access the sales and marketing resources available for Apache Flex is to join the Spoon mailing list today http://www.spoon.as/contact-spoon/. Flex ecosystem partners, Flex user groups, Flex service provider directories, Flex conference speakers, Flex evangelism resources, Spoon monthly newsletter archives, and other authoritative information is posted for all to consume, enjoy, and distribute. Please encourage those who need help to ask for what they need! Spoon will get your colleagues the help they need.
> As much as I appreciate the effort which has been put into the survey, I can't help feeling it is a little bit leaning towards some kind of 'progress report' on Adobe donations rather than a focus on whats next.
You're welcome! The power of the Apache Way is that participation is not limited or directed by the Spoon survey. The results are a Flex community conversation starter, do not have any official weight with commenters, contributors, committers, or users of the Flex SDK. We also look forward to imagining the possibilities, too. There will probably be new powerful features that haven't been conceived yet, spontaneous discussions of future project direction, and a completely unknowable future for Flex as part of the ASF. It is an exciting time!
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
below
On 8/7/2012 8:52 AM, Daniel Harfleet wrote:
> Mike's statement "I am sure there are customers using it" has reminded me a thought I had about the 'survey' which I wanted to share...
>
> Many members on this list have probably felt an impact on their livelihood as a result of the changes relating to Adobe's actions around Flex. My primary motivation in committing to work in my spare time on Apache Flex would be to help ensure the longevity of Flex and hence my livelihood (although I recognize and respect for some it may be more oriented towards hobby/interest/other).
>
> Although the survey attempts to get to the bottom of feature priorities, I can't help feeling that we should be including parties other than this mailing list to take part in the survey. Although many of this list's participants including myself have an exposure to a subset of the corporate users requirements, does anyone have any ideas how we could ( and if we should ) be trying to include the high paying end customers in our surveys ? i.e. the big corporations that were (and in some cases are) spending money on Flex development ? Is this information Spoon can get access to through their network?
>> I couldn't agree more with this but, I think Apache Flex has to get
to a point where it has something to offer those corporate users over
and above 4.6. With the release of 4.8.-incubating we are definitely
closer to that point and will likely get there in the next release. At
that point (and working up to it) we should be able to go out to those
corporate users with not just a message but a product. Fundamentally, Q1
in the survey is about digging out what is "essential to commercial /
economic success for Apache Flex within the next 6-12 months".
>> I believe there are lines of communication to 'corporate users' from
within the network of Spoon, 3rd party product vendors, service
providers and people on this list which we can follow but this needs to
be done in an organized fashion. Typically with successful open source
initiatives this is undertaken by a commercial entity associated with
the project that builds offerings on top of the project (ex hadoop >>
cloudera, spring >> springsource). This is something Spoon is thinking
about how to get started.
>
> For example only, I personally can see a big benefit to putting effort into FalconJS, but it may be that 9 out 10 large spenders in Flex development may actually not care about HTML/JS and are more concerned about performance increases/additional components/bug fixes, etc ?
>> Agree, no technology is good at everything, with FalconJS we could
offer a path from Flex for those things that HTML5/JS does better. I
can't think of a better bunch of people to define/adopt a JS framework
than the people on this list.
>
> Obviously I appreciate that some of these large spending corporations will have members monitoring this list, but some may not as they probably relied on Adobe (and partners) sales & marketing effort to keep them posted.
>> Agree, AF is in a unique situation, it has an established
user-based, we just need to get organized to access and inform it.
>
> I am not saying I like the idea of a 'roadmap', but I do like the idea of a 'picklist' of features that paying organizations have stated an interest in.
>
> As much as I appreciate the effort which has been put into the survey, I can't help feeling it is a little bit leaning towards some kind of 'progress report' on Adobe donations rather than a focus on whats next.
>> Agreed, but it is a good place to start/clarify. One of the things
coming out of the survey is the 'other' things people think are
important and that is going to be a good basis for discussion on what is
next for non-Adobe people to work on.
>
>
> dan
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Daniel Harfleet <dh...@yahoo.com>.
Mike's statement "I am sure there are customers using it" has reminded me a thought I had about the 'survey' which I wanted to share...
Many members on this list have probably felt an impact on their livelihood as a result of the changes relating to Adobe's actions around Flex. My primary motivation in committing to work in my spare time on Apache Flex would be to help ensure the longevity of Flex and hence my livelihood (although I recognize and respect for some it may be more oriented towards hobby/interest/other).
Although the survey attempts to get to the bottom of feature priorities, I can't help feeling that we should be including parties other than this mailing list to take part in the survey. Although many of this list's participants including myself have an exposure to a subset of the corporate users requirements, does anyone have any ideas how we could ( and if we should ) be trying to include the high paying end customers in our surveys ? i.e. the big corporations that were (and in some cases are) spending money on Flex development ? Is this information Spoon can get access to through their network?
For example only, I personally can see a big benefit to putting effort into FalconJS, but it may be that 9 out 10 large spenders in Flex development may actually not care about HTML/JS and are more concerned about performance increases/additional components/bug fixes, etc ?
Obviously I appreciate that some of these large spending corporations will have members monitoring this list, but some may not as they probably relied on Adobe (and partners) sales & marketing effort to keep them posted.
I am not saying I like the idea of a 'roadmap', but I do like the idea of a 'picklist' of features that paying organizations have stated an interest in.
As much as I appreciate the effort which has been put into the survey, I can't help feeling it is a little bit leaning towards some kind of 'progress report' on Adobe donations rather than a focus on whats next.
dan
RE: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>I don't know what Gravity is either. Is it Telemetry? BTW What happened to Telemetry?
Gravity is a framework which, in theory, solves the problems associated with multiple domain applications using the Marshall plan by providing a structure to work within. While my opinion may be somewhat controversial on this, I see Gravity as a work around to the problems created through a work around.
I am sure there are customers using it, and if it helps them we should pursue it... however, I would put it somewhere around the 101st priority of our top 100 in my mind.
Mike
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Squiggly is an Action Script spell checking library for developers who work
in Adobe® Flash® Professional, Adobe Flex® Builder™, or other IDEs that
support ActionScript. The Squiggly package contains six .swc files – three
of which integration convenience classes called SpellUI, one for Flex 3,
another for Flex 4, and a third one for TLF. [0]
I don't know what Gravity is either. Is it Telemetry? BTW What happened to
Telemetry?
[0] http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/squiggly/releasenotes.html
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Carol Frampton <cf...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 8/3/12 11 :51AM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
>
> >Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
> >(PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
> >
> >Available in 4.8
> > 4.6 automation libraries
> > 4.6 fabridge
> > 4.6 flash-integration
> > 4.6 samples
> > Flex MXML compiler source code
> >
> >Yet to be donated
> > ? 4.6 missing embedded font support
> 4.8.0 has embedded font support if you're willing to use
> the Adobe jars
> with the Adobe license which isn't compatible with the Apache license
> source won't be donated - it is Adobe proprietary
> Apache Flex would have to implement the support
>
> 4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> nothing to donate - work wasn't started
>
>
> > 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> > 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
> > 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype
> > 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>
> both ViewStack and Accordion are just about done and some
> testing has
> been done
> several DG features were completed and tested inc locked
> rows and
> columns
> DataChooser is more than prototype but has a fair amount
> of remaining
> work
>
>
> I'll check it all into whiteboard/cframpton/adobe.next as
> soon as we get
> the VP signature - paperwork on his desk
>
> > BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
> > 3.x Flex SDK
> Peter will start this process as soon as mustella gets in
> - will have to
> spend a fair amount of time cleaning before donation as we did for 4.6
>
> > TLF
> donation in the works - already thru Adobe legal and some
> signatures
> have already been gotten
>
> Falcon (2012 Q4)
>
> Alex and Gordon working on this now
>
> > Gravity
> > FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
> > Squiggly
> > OSMF
> don't know but never heard of Gravity or Squiggly before
> this list
> >
>
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/7/12 8:24 AM, "dharfleet@yahoo.com" <dh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> with respect to Gravity, when you say "won't happen unless .... " is the
> reasoning behind this related to the amount of effort involved in
> 're-packaging' for Apache and legal compliance ?
>
>
> dan
Yes. I think Adobe's resources should be elsewhere, including changes to
the framework that would make Gravity much less needed.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Daniel Harfleet <dh...@yahoo.com>.
Alex,
with respect to Gravity, when you say "won't happen unless .... " is the reasoning behind this related to the amount of effort involved in 're-packaging' for Apache and legal compliance ?
dan
________________________________
From: Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>
To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <fl...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 17:09
Subject: Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
On 8/3/12 8:51 AM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
> (PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
>
> Available in 4.8
> 4.6 automation libraries
> 4.6 fabridge
> 4.6 flash-integration
> 4.6 samples
> Flex MXML compiler source code
>
> Yet to be donated
> ? 4.6 missing embedded font support
Probably won't be donated, but in theory the one part we need (CFF
Embedding) is not too hard for us to re-write in Apache.
> 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
> 4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
These just got signed off yesterday.
> BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
> 3.x Flex SDK
> TLF
All are in progress, TLF will probably be next.
> Squiggly
> OSMF
> Gravity
Won't happen unless we hear lots of people want it.
> FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
Support is in the compiler, but there is no guarantee that Adobe apps will
continue to export it.
> Falcon (2012 Q4)
In legal audit now.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
[DISCUSS] Navigators (was [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status)
Posted by Tink <fl...@tink.ws>.
Hey Alex
Have the navigators been committed to a whiteboard anywhere?
I like to open up some discussion about navigators, but thought I'd wait for these to be committed first.
cheers
Tink
On 3 Aug 2012, at 17:09, Alex Harui wrote:
>> 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
>> 4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> These just got signed off yesterday.
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by superabe superabe <su...@gmail.com>.
Ok thanks for the info
It's a relief to know at least somebody is maintaining and advancing it :)
It's a rather crucial piece for most video related apps.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labriola@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> >About OSMF. What is the status of OSMF? Is it being actively maintained
> and developed by Adobe?
>
> OSMF is still being actively maintained and expanded by Adobe, that is
> probably part of the reason we won't see it soon/ever without some work on
> our part.
>
>
>
RE: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>About OSMF. What is the status of OSMF? Is it being actively maintained and developed by Adobe?
OSMF is still being actively maintained and expanded by Adobe, that is probably part of the reason we won't see it soon/ever without some work on our part.
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by superabe superabe <su...@gmail.com>.
>
>
>>> All are in progress, TLF will probably be next.
>>
>> Squiggly
>>> * OSMF*
>>> Gravity
>>>
>> Won't happen unless we hear lots of people want it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
About OSMF. What is the status of OSMF? Is it being actively maintained and
developed by Adobe?
By "Won't happen..." do you mean OSMF won't get donated to Apache or that
it won't be maintained at all even by Adobe.
Thx,
-superabe
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
Alex/Carol,
Awesome, thanks
We will role that back into the survey
On 8/3/2012 9:09 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>
> On 8/3/12 8:51 AM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
>
>> Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
>> (PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
>>
>> Available in 4.8
>> 4.6 automation libraries
>> 4.6 fabridge
>> 4.6 flash-integration
>> 4.6 samples
>> Flex MXML compiler source code
>>
>> Yet to be donated
>> ? 4.6 missing embedded font support
> Probably won't be donated, but in theory the one part we need (CFF
> Embedding) is not too hard for us to re-write in Apache.
>> 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
>> 4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
>> 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> These just got signed off yesterday.
>
>> BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
>> 3.x Flex SDK
>> TLF
> All are in progress, TLF will probably be next.
>
>> Squiggly
>> OSMF
>> Gravity
> Won't happen unless we hear lots of people want it.
>
>> FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
> Support is in the compiler, but there is no guarantee that Adobe apps will
> continue to export it.
>
>> Falcon (2012 Q4)
> In legal audit now.
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/3/12 8:51 AM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
> (PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
>
> Available in 4.8
> 4.6 automation libraries
> 4.6 fabridge
> 4.6 flash-integration
> 4.6 samples
> Flex MXML compiler source code
>
> Yet to be donated
> ? 4.6 missing embedded font support
Probably won't be donated, but in theory the one part we need (CFF
Embedding) is not too hard for us to re-write in Apache.
> 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
> 4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
These just got signed off yesterday.
> BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
> 3.x Flex SDK
> TLF
All are in progress, TLF will probably be next.
> Squiggly
> OSMF
> Gravity
Won't happen unless we hear lots of people want it.
> FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
Support is in the compiler, but there is no guarantee that Adobe apps will
continue to export it.
> Falcon (2012 Q4)
In legal audit now.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Carol Frampton <cf...@adobe.com>.
On 8/3/12 11 :51AM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
>Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
>(PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
>
>Available in 4.8
> 4.6 automation libraries
> 4.6 fabridge
> 4.6 flash-integration
> 4.6 samples
> Flex MXML compiler source code
>
>Yet to be donated
> ? 4.6 missing embedded font support
4.8.0 has embedded font support if you're willing to use the Adobe jars
with the Adobe license which isn't compatible with the Apache license
source won't be donated - it is Adobe proprietary
Apache Flex would have to implement the support
4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
nothing to donate - work wasn't started
> 4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
> 4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
> 4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype
> 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
both ViewStack and Accordion are just about done and some testing has
been done
several DG features were completed and tested inc locked rows and
columns
DataChooser is more than prototype but has a fair amount of remaining
work
I'll check it all into whiteboard/cframpton/adobe.next as soon as we get
the VP signature - paperwork on his desk
> BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
> 3.x Flex SDK
Peter will start this process as soon as mustella gets in - will have to
spend a fair amount of time cleaning before donation as we did for 4.6
> TLF
donation in the works - already thru Adobe legal and some signatures
have already been gotten
Falcon (2012 Q4)
Alex and Gordon working on this now
> Gravity
> FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
> Squiggly
> OSMF
don't know but never heard of Gravity or Squiggly before this list
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Revised component status
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
Based on Alex's email this is a revise component list to go into survey
(PLEASE identify anything missing or in wrong place):
Available in 4.8
4.6 automation libraries
4.6 fabridge
4.6 flash-integration
4.6 samples
Flex MXML compiler source code
Yet to be donated
? 4.6 missing embedded font support
4.6 ViewStack (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
4.6 Accordion (listed in Flex White Paper but does not exist)
4.6 DateField (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
4.6 DataChooser (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
4.6 Enhanced DataGrid (listed in Flex White Paper - protoype)
BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
3.x Flex SDK
TLF
Gravity
FXG - will this continue to be supported beyond CS6?
Squiggly
OSMF
Falcon (2012 Q4)
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.
A roadmap is fine so long as we don't use it to tell someone else what they should be working on. OTOH if the vast majority of users are interested in a particular set of features those will get implemented without a roadmap. :)
Sent from my mobile device.
On Aug 3, 2012, at 6:56 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There nothing saying we can't have roadmaps (AFAIK) and several other Apache projects do have them. For example http://subversion.apache.org/roadmap.html
>
> I think knowing what features SDK users see as important is useful and could help shape direction and help get committers and contrubitors to pitch in.
>
> We just need to be a little careful and make it clear that it's not a roadmap in the traditional sense ie a list of features that are planned to be done by a certain date.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Gravity
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
Right! I was thinking that it refers to the granite piece.
El lunes, 6 de agosto de 2012, John Fletcher escribió:
> Why did they give it two names? Why not just call it CCF? This isn't a
> new OS release.
>
> The "Gravity" name is a bit unfortunate as Granite DS message push
> framework is also called Gravity (and has been for years). So now we
> have two Gravities in Flex.
>
> John
>
>
> 2012/8/3 Keith Sutton <keith@spoon.as <javascript:;>>:
> > There have been a number of question about Gravity (also referred to as
> > Client Component Framework).
> >
> > "The ADEP Client Component Framework (codename Gravity) is an
> ActionScript
> > library
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Gravity
Posted by John Fletcher <fl...@gmail.com>.
Why did they give it two names? Why not just call it CCF? This isn't a
new OS release.
The "Gravity" name is a bit unfortunate as Granite DS message push
framework is also called Gravity (and has been for years). So now we
have two Gravities in Flex.
John
2012/8/3 Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>:
> There have been a number of question about Gravity (also referred to as
> Client Component Framework).
>
> "The ADEP Client Component Framework (codename Gravity) is an ActionScript
> library
[ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey - Gravity
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
There have been a number of question about Gravity (also referred to as
Client Component Framework).
"The ADEP Client Component Framework (codename Gravity) is an
ActionScript library that takes the concepts of OSGi and applies them to
ActionScript. It provides a module and/or plugin architecture in which
individual pieces can be added and removed seamlessly. The Gravity SDK
comes with the es-sdk package for Experience Services. The parts become
much more independent of each other allowing easier integration of
content from different teams or repurposing of existing content. It
makes it easier to have a library of parts that are put together as
needed for applications."
http://blogs.adobe.com/dekesmith/2011/10/17/deconstructing-experience-services-client-component-framework-gravity/
HelloGravity Sample Application:
http://blogs.adobe.com/gravity/2011/09/09/hellogravity-sample-application/
Video tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxLnnPm-84g&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=7&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7R7W8QaIU&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=6&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEVNudQLWk&list=UU3x6nH-4vot_ipxZ7CBJutw&index=5&feature=plcp
A similar framework is Potomac: http://www.potomacframework.org/
The Potomac Framework for Flex is:
* A modularity framework inspired by OSGi
* A UI composition framework that pulls user interface 'parts'
together to form applications
* A general purpose business application framework (providing reusable
features for business applications)
* A dependency injection framework
* An extensible metadata processor with reflection support
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
There nothing saying we can't have roadmaps (AFAIK) and several other Apache projects do have them. For example http://subversion.apache.org/roadmap.html
I think knowing what features SDK users see as important is useful and could help shape direction and help get committers and contrubitors to pitch in.
We just need to be a little careful and make it clear that it's not a roadmap in the traditional sense ie a list of features that are planned to be done by a certain date.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by John Fletcher <fl...@gmail.com>.
If Spoon have organisation and/or heirarchy, and Apache accepts
contribution from anyone, then it might be simple: the Spoon
Foundation creates a Spoon Roadmap - what they hope to deliver to Flex
and when. They can post it on their Spoon.as website. Those that want
to be part of an organised/guided/led effort can join Spoon,
contribute to their roadmap, and help to turn that roadmap into
reality by contributing the code to Flex. Since Spoon exerts no
authority or control over Apache Flex everyone remains happy and the
"Apache way" has not been violated.
Those that want to stick to the standard Apache scratch your own itch
philosophy can ignore Spoon and continue scratching.
John
2012/8/2 Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>
>
>
> On 8/2/12 12:26 AM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>
>>>> Some direction (agreed upon
>>>> by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
>>>> ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
>>>> pace...
>>> But there are no project leads. Just a bunch of committers and lots of
>>> other folks on the mailing list.
>>
>> I'm not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand the Apache way:
>> aren't the PPMC (Podling Project Management Committee) not the
>> 'project leads'?
>>
> I don't see the PMC as project leads. They have more of an administrative
> responsibility than a technical one. See [1].
>
> There is no hierarchy in the engineering. Nobody gets to tell anyone else
> what to do. Committers can veto your work, but for technical reasons, not
> because it wasn't on the roadmap or a high enough priority.
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
Exactly - Strangely enough I was just asking for hepl and directions for
building the SDK in Linux for FDT5
~a~
www.ayobinitie.com
http://mrbinitie.blogspot.com
On 2 August 2012 14:13, João Fernandes
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Ayo,
>
> what do you refer to? Like building the SDK in a linux environment?
>
>
> --
>
> João Fernandes
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by João Fernandes <jo...@gmail.com>.
Ayo,
what do you refer to? Like building the SDK in a linux environment?
--
João Fernandes
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
As far as roadmaps go - I'd like to know what the support plans for Linux
are
~a~
www.ayobinitie.com
http://mrbinitie.blogspot.com
On 2 August 2012 11:34, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> > There is no hierarchy in the engineering. Nobody gets to tell anyone
> else
> > what to do. Committers can veto your work, but for technical reasons,
> not
> > because it wasn't on the roadmap or a high enough priority.
>
> Maybe they should have referred to it not as "Roadmap" but as
> "Contribution Suggestion List" ;-)
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
> personal record for days lived.
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> There is no hierarchy in the engineering. Nobody gets to tell anyone else
> what to do. Committers can veto your work, but for technical reasons, not
> because it wasn't on the roadmap or a high enough priority.
Maybe they should have referred to it not as "Roadmap" but as
"Contribution Suggestion List" ;-)
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/2/12 12:26 AM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>>> Some direction (agreed upon
>>> by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
>>> ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
>>> pace...
>> But there are no project leads. Just a bunch of committers and lots of
>> other folks on the mailing list.
>
> I'm not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand the Apache way:
> aren't the PPMC (Podling Project Management Committee) not the
> 'project leads'?
>
I don't see the PMC as project leads. They have more of an administrative
responsibility than a technical one. See [1].
There is no hierarchy in the engineering. Nobody gets to tell anyone else
what to do. Committers can veto your work, but for technical reasons, not
because it wasn't on the roadmap or a high enough priority.
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
>> Some direction (agreed upon
>> by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
>> ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
>> pace...
> But there are no project leads. Just a bunch of committers and lots of
> other folks on the mailing list.
I'm not being difficult, I'm just trying to understand the Apache way:
aren't the PPMC (Podling Project Management Committee) not the
'project leads'?
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/1/12 11:23 PM, "ranboleelan" <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> not all mx components have their spark equivalent ones, so i guess more spark
> components in future version would be nice.
>
The prototypes we have are waiting VP signature then they will be checked
in.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by ranboleelan <ra...@gmail.com>.
not all mx components have their spark equivalent ones, so i guess more spark components in future version would be nice.
ranboleelan
From: Alex Harui
Date: 2012-08-02 14:14
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
On 8/1/12 10:25 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on. Folks are
>> free to do what they want.
>
> Free to create a roadmap and try to give some direction to people
> looking to contribute, but not sure where to begin, or which
> features/bug fixes would benefit the end users the most, like myself.
Yes, they are free to do so, as long as it is clear that the project is not
required to deliver on it. In theory, votes on bugs in JIRA and
discussions on the mailing list provide a guide for folks looking for things
to do. But really, the term "scratch your own itch" is used often.
>
> As long as they understand (which I'm sure they do) that this roadmap
> is nothing more than their contribution to the project and that
> everyone is free to ignore it and do their own thing.
>
> One last thing: I'm not sure that advocating complete anarchy is the
> best thing for the project at this point.
I'm not advocating anarchy, I am advocating the Apache Way, which we have to
"get" in order to graduate.
> Some direction (agreed upon
> by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
> ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
> pace...
But there are no project leads. Just a bunch of committers and lots of
other folks on the mailing list.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/1/12 10:25 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on. Folks are
>> free to do what they want.
>
> Free to create a roadmap and try to give some direction to people
> looking to contribute, but not sure where to begin, or which
> features/bug fixes would benefit the end users the most, like myself.
Yes, they are free to do so, as long as it is clear that the project is not
required to deliver on it. In theory, votes on bugs in JIRA and
discussions on the mailing list provide a guide for folks looking for things
to do. But really, the term "scratch your own itch" is used often.
>
> As long as they understand (which I'm sure they do) that this roadmap
> is nothing more than their contribution to the project and that
> everyone is free to ignore it and do their own thing.
>
> One last thing: I'm not sure that advocating complete anarchy is the
> best thing for the project at this point.
I'm not advocating anarchy, I am advocating the Apache Way, which we have to
"get" in order to graduate.
> Some direction (agreed upon
> by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
> ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
> pace...
But there are no project leads. Just a bunch of committers and lots of
other folks on the mailing list.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on. Folks are
> free to do what they want.
Free to create a roadmap and try to give some direction to people
looking to contribute, but not sure where to begin, or which
features/bug fixes would benefit the end users the most, like myself.
As long as they understand (which I'm sure they do) that this roadmap
is nothing more than their contribution to the project and that
everyone is free to ignore it and do their own thing.
One last thing: I'm not sure that advocating complete anarchy is the
best thing for the project at this point. Some direction (agreed upon
by all the project leads, to be sure) will help get things off the
ground, or at least move along at something more than a glacial
pace...
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
P.S. I would like everybody to know that as of this morning I broke my
personal record for days lived.
RE: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by "Guthmann, Scott" <sg...@on3solutions.com>.
> I've been on this list long enough to know people will work on whatever the heck they want but that idea is and was hard to accept and plan for.
This is the Apache Way. The survey has no official purpose and carries no official weight in the project. Each person who participates in this open source effort does whatever they want according to nobody's plan except their own creative drive.
The August Spoon Newsletter has been published with the survey results under this header: Community Objectives and Priorities for Apache Flex at this address:
http://www.spoon.as/2012/apache-flex-community-revue-aug-2012/ The survey has been generating many thoughtful conversations which is what we were interested to facilitate. Agree or disagree - but, people are talking!
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:30 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I'd love to see a live or frequently updated status sheet / page / app that
> shows what's being worked on (general topics or Jira issues) , progress,
> participation count and so on if some how we can gather and show this
> information...
I'm sure jira queries can do that if people take care of backing their
work with sufficiently granular jira issues.
-Bertrand
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Anyone on this list will tell you I like more organization than less but I
have a couple of concerns with the survey. I don't remember if there was an
"Other" category in the list of items but I think, because of surveys in
past experiences*, that it gives the impression that if it isn't on the
list it isn't going to get worked on or any attention. I've been on this
list long enough to know people will work on whatever the heck they want
but that idea is and was hard to accept and plan for. It's like a
non-answer. I'd feel a lot better if the survey added a "other" box,
mentioned some of the other parts of the project people are working on and
clearly stated that the purpose of the survey as a starting point target to
aim for, correct me if I'm wrong.
I would also mention that there might be developers who are just going into
Jira and going down the list and working on those items.
* Past experiences being the $100 feature purchase survey.
** I think you'll have to ask on the list to see what people are working
on, what they are interested in working on or even features they're
interested in.
For example, I'm interested in working on or helping with a Design View for
Flex. Goals would be to create skins, load in and change skins dynamically,
visually create designs that can be exported to FXG markup and so on.
I'm interested in Spark parity with mx components plus new components,
performance optimizations and a few others. Some of these I can help on
some I can't. So there's a difference if someones tallying up the score.
I'd love to see a live or frequently updated status sheet / page / app that
shows what's being worked on (general topics or Jira issues) , progress,
participation count and so on if some how we can gather and show this
information. I'd be glad to help on this tool if there's interest.
Jude
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> All,
>
> Some of you may have seen tweets and emails concerning a Apache Flex
> Steering Survey which currently has more than 375 respondents since July
> 26th.
>
> With the successful release of Apache Flex 4.8.0-incubating (previously
> announced below) it is timely to have a discussion/consensus around the
> priorities going forward. Below is a link to a survey that will help guide
> discussions on objectives, priorities, features and functions (roadmap)
> that can guide effort over the next 6-12 months. This survey is 8 questions
> and should take less than 5 minutes to complete. Your input is extremely
> important to the project - thank you for your time. The survey will be open
> until Aug 21st.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/**TWTJ2VS<http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TWTJ2VS>
>
> More background:
>
> The Apache Flex Steering Survey is being organized and executed by members
> of the 'Open Spoon Foundation' (www.spoon.as) and affiliates in support
> of the Apache Flex Project. The Foundation (not-for-profit foundation)
> setup by the Adobe community in 2011 to capture the collective experience
> of those individuals implementing solutions on the Flex framework and to
> apply that knowledge in a constructive manner through defect patching,
> feature contribution and addressing aspects of the framework that limit
> extensibility. Spoon's has a membership of several hundred and growing (a
> number of who are Apache Flex committers and PMC members). The survey is
> part of an effort to bring the community together, plan and organize
> ourselves to move forward from the recent 4.8.0-incubating release. The
> next 6 months will be an important stage for Apache Flex during which
> Adobe's code/effort donations will be finalized and the first true 'new'
> release will be undertaken. It is also a critical time in the market to
> begin rebuilding interest and commitment in the technology. The chances of
> success at this environment will be greatly improved by a coordinated
> community effort towards the right objectives, which is what the steering
> survey is going to contribute towards. The survey is live right now & will
> remain open until August 21st, the data is meant to be used by Spoon and
> the Apache Flex project. No commercial or personal information will be
> shared publically, only aggregated results for the purpose of defining
> objectives, features and functions as part of the roadmap
> planning/organizing discussion.
>
> On 7/25/2012 12:25 PM, Keith Sutton wrote:
>
>> With the successful release of 4.8.0-incubating it would be timely to
>> have a discussion/consensus around the priorities going forward.
>>
>> A couple of fundamental factors should be considered in this discussion:
>>
>> 1) Adobe resources are not indefinite and from statements made
>> early in the year it is possible they may no longer be available
>> within 6+/- months (plan for the worst case). Once these resources
>> are gone it will be significantly harder to access/transition code
>> assets;
>>
>> 2) Successful open source projects/communities are commercially
>> viable, as much as open source is about cool technologies and code
>> it is also about having the resources to do what they want for as
>> long as they want;
>>
>> 3) Within the Fortune 1000 companies which has the greater
>> installed base and therefore need for support/transition - Flex 3;
>>
>> 4) This is not a typical open source project that grows over time,
>> this is a commercially viable product with a significant customer
>> base and ecosystem, Apache Flex does not have the luxury of time
>> as organizations wrestle with the decisions in the 6-12 months
>> over Flex versus HTML5/JS/CSS (hope is not a roadmap).
>>
>> After gleaning through emails and blog posts the following is a list of
>> potential things-to-do-next (please identify anything needing
>> addition/deletion). When considering what is a priority, ask yourself 'is
>> this essential to Apache Flex success beyond the next 6-12 months':
>>
>> 1) 4.6 ViewStack
>> 2) 4.6 Accordion
>> 3) 4.6 DateField
>> 4) 4.6 DataChooser
>> 5) 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid
>> 6) 4.6 missing automation libraries
>> 7) 4.6 missing fabridge
>> 8) 4.6 missing flash-integration
>> 9) 4.6 missing samples
>> 10) 4.6 missing embedded font support
>> 11) 3.x Flex SDK
>> 12) Flex compiler source code
>> 13) BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
>> 14) TLF
>> 15) Gravity
>> 16) FXG
>> 17) Squiggles
>> 18) OSMF
>>
>> Notes:
>> Falcon and Falcon JS are not on the list until Q4 2012 and beyond
>> Adobe "Not be contributing the AIR for Linux SDK, LCDS, or LCCS to Apache"
>> Adobe "will ensure that the Adobe Flex SDK 4.6 and prior will be
>> supported in future versions of Flash Player and AIR
>> Adobe "plans to maintain support for Flex projects in updates to Flash
>> Builder 4.x"
>>
>
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
Keith,
I'm sorry I did not respond to your first roadmap email. Honestly, I
stopped reading after your first bullet point raising FUD about whether
Adobe would live up to its commitments without any quoting of the statements
behind your logic. I almost responded, but when nobody else did, I just
hoped it would die. Yes, I could end up being very surprised in November
2012, but Adobe has put a stake in the ground in their roadmap document and
I expect to see us live up to it.
I know lots of folks have an instinctive desire to organize Apache Flex, but
to me, the key to success is that the Apache Way does not require this level
of organization and decision making and we will save time and make more
progress by not trying to get that organized. It isn't total anarchy
either, it is a proven way of managing a group of volunteers spread across
the world.
I certainly wish more committers were committing more stuff, and surveys are
great, but surveys have the limitation of limiting the discussion to the
content of the survey. Yes, you can have your open questions, but you've
already led the witness. For example, Maven support was the #1 vote getter
at Adobe and I have trouble believing it isn't important anymore, but it
wasn't a choice on the survey.
The Apache Way as I understand it, is that folks who have a need can file a
JIRA issue and/or ask on the mailing lists about it. Then there is no
cut-off for answering a survey, and folks can talk about what is bugging
them when it is bugging them.
On 8/1/12 10:26 PM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> The component list was developed reviewing the emails on the mailing
> list as we as the Flex White Paper. The component list was provided
> earlier with the request for corrections but none were forthcoming.
> Given that Adobe's resource commitment is not indefinite it would be
> most appropriate to dedicate the remaining time (it would be nice to
> have some idea what that is) on things that are considered a priority
> (do we want effort to be spent on Gravity?). The same can be said for
> non-Adobe contributors, many of whom have are fighting to retain the
> businesses they have built over the past 4-5 years. At the vary least
> the survey will provide a concrete frame of reference based on community
> opinion that can guide day-to-day passions/swings. Apache Flex isn't
> your average open source project with no customer base that can afford
> to spend the next few years defining and developing the technology.
>
>
> On 8/1/2012 7:25 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
>> On 8/1/2012 8:22 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>> Keith,
>>>
>>> I appreciate the effort, and more data is welcome, but I don't think
>>> Apache
>>> projects have roadmaps or make commitments on what is going to be
>>> delivered
>>> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on.
>>> Folks are
>>> free to do what they want.
>> Thanks for saying that. :-) I think a lot of folks are having
>> trouble getting their head around the "no roadmap / do what you want"
>> approach of Apache.
>>
>> I can see, however, that this could be a good (or at least different)
>> way to collect information than the Jira bug base. If a lot of people
>> are asking for "X" or "Y" it may motivate some people to work on "X"
>> or "Y".
>>
>>> I also don't understand the items on the survey. Automation, Samples
>>> Themes, FABridge and Flash Integration were all donated and are the 4.8
>>> release. The MXMLC compiler code is as well.
>> And in my own experience, FXG works just as well with Apache Flex 4.8
>> as it did with Adobe Flex 4.6 .
>> I have no idea what "Gravity" is from that list. I assume the code
>> name to some Adobe pre-release that I never heard of.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Keith Sutton <ke...@spoon.as>.
The component list was developed reviewing the emails on the mailing
list as we as the Flex White Paper. The component list was provided
earlier with the request for corrections but none were forthcoming.
Given that Adobe's resource commitment is not indefinite it would be
most appropriate to dedicate the remaining time (it would be nice to
have some idea what that is) on things that are considered a priority
(do we want effort to be spent on Gravity?). The same can be said for
non-Adobe contributors, many of whom have are fighting to retain the
businesses they have built over the past 4-5 years. At the vary least
the survey will provide a concrete frame of reference based on community
opinion that can guide day-to-day passions/swings. Apache Flex isn't
your average open source project with no customer base that can afford
to spend the next few years defining and developing the technology.
On 8/1/2012 7:25 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:
> On 8/1/2012 8:22 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>> Keith,
>>
>> I appreciate the effort, and more data is welcome, but I don't think
>> Apache
>> projects have roadmaps or make commitments on what is going to be
>> delivered
>> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on.
>> Folks are
>> free to do what they want.
> Thanks for saying that. :-) I think a lot of folks are having
> trouble getting their head around the "no roadmap / do what you want"
> approach of Apache.
>
> I can see, however, that this could be a good (or at least different)
> way to collect information than the Jira bug base. If a lot of people
> are asking for "X" or "Y" it may motivate some people to work on "X"
> or "Y".
>
>> I also don't understand the items on the survey. Automation, Samples
>> Themes, FABridge and Flash Integration were all donated and are the 4.8
>> release. The MXMLC compiler code is as well.
> And in my own experience, FXG works just as well with Apache Flex 4.8
> as it did with Adobe Flex 4.6 .
> I have no idea what "Gravity" is from that list. I assume the code
> name to some Adobe pre-release that I never heard of.
>
>
>
>
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 8/1/2012 8:22 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> Keith,
>
> I appreciate the effort, and more data is welcome, but I don't think Apache
> projects have roadmaps or make commitments on what is going to be delivered
> next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on. Folks are
> free to do what they want.
Thanks for saying that. :-) I think a lot of folks are having trouble
getting their head around the "no roadmap / do what you want" approach
of Apache.
I can see, however, that this could be a good (or at least different)
way to collect information than the Jira bug base. If a lot of people
are asking for "X" or "Y" it may motivate some people to work on "X" or
"Y".
> I also don't understand the items on the survey. Automation, Samples
> Themes, FABridge and Flash Integration were all donated and are the 4.8
> release. The MXMLC compiler code is as well.
And in my own experience, FXG works just as well with Apache Flex 4.8
as it did with Adobe Flex 4.6 .
I have no idea what "Gravity" is from that list. I assume the code
name to some Adobe pre-release that I never heard of.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: [ROADMAP] Apache Flex Steering Survey
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
Keith,
I appreciate the effort, and more data is welcome, but I don't think Apache
projects have roadmaps or make commitments on what is going to be delivered
next. No consensus has to be reached on what will be worked on. Folks are
free to do what they want.
I also don't understand the items on the survey. Automation, Samples
Themes, FABridge and Flash Integration were all donated and are the 4.8
release. The MXMLC compiler code is as well.
Falcon, TLF, Blaze and 3.x have been promised by Adobe. These results
aren't really going to change whether or when they get donated.
I also don't understand what 4.6 Accordion and other components like that
mean. There is no 4.6 Spark Accordion and the MX Accordion is donated.
There are prototypes of these Spark components that have been promised by
Adobe and again, the survey results aren't going to affect the donation
schedule.
-Alex
On 8/1/12 4:03 PM, "Keith Sutton" <ke...@spoon.as> wrote:
> All,
>
> Some of you may have seen tweets and emails concerning a Apache Flex
> Steering Survey which currently has more than 375 respondents since July
> 26th.
>
> With the successful release of Apache Flex 4.8.0-incubating (previously
> announced below) it is timely to have a discussion/consensus around the
> priorities going forward. Below is a link to a survey that will help
> guide discussions on objectives, priorities, features and functions
> (roadmap) that can guide effort over the next 6-12 months. This survey
> is 8 questions and should take less than 5 minutes to complete. Your
> input is extremely important to the project - thank you for your time.
> The survey will be open until Aug 21st.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TWTJ2VS
>
> More background:
>
> The Apache Flex Steering Survey is being organized and executed by
> members of the 'Open Spoon Foundation' (www.spoon.as) and affiliates in
> support of the Apache Flex Project. The Foundation (not-for-profit
> foundation) setup by the Adobe community in 2011 to capture the
> collective experience of those individuals implementing solutions on the
> Flex framework and to apply that knowledge in a constructive manner
> through defect patching, feature contribution and addressing aspects of
> the framework that limit extensibility. Spoon's has a membership of
> several hundred and growing (a number of who are Apache Flex committers
> and PMC members). The survey is part of an effort to bring the community
> together, plan and organize ourselves to move forward from the recent
> 4.8.0-incubating release. The next 6 months will be an important stage
> for Apache Flex during which Adobe's code/effort donations will be
> finalized and the first true 'new' release will be undertaken. It is
> also a critical time in the market to begin rebuilding interest and
> commitment in the technology. The chances of success at this environment
> will be greatly improved by a coordinated community effort towards the
> right objectives, which is what the steering survey is going to
> contribute towards. The survey is live right now & will remain open
> until August 21st, the data is meant to be used by Spoon and the Apache
> Flex project. No commercial or personal information will be shared
> publically, only aggregated results for the purpose of defining
> objectives, features and functions as part of the roadmap
> planning/organizing discussion.
>
> On 7/25/2012 12:25 PM, Keith Sutton wrote:
>> With the successful release of 4.8.0-incubating it would be timely to
>> have a discussion/consensus around the priorities going forward.
>>
>> A couple of fundamental factors should be considered in this discussion:
>>
>> 1) Adobe resources are not indefinite and from statements made
>> early in the year it is possible they may no longer be available
>> within 6+/- months (plan for the worst case). Once these resources
>> are gone it will be significantly harder to access/transition code
>> assets;
>>
>> 2) Successful open source projects/communities are commercially
>> viable, as much as open source is about cool technologies and code
>> it is also about having the resources to do what they want for as
>> long as they want;
>>
>> 3) Within the Fortune 1000 companies which has the greater
>> installed base and therefore need for support/transition - Flex 3;
>>
>> 4) This is not a typical open source project that grows over time,
>> this is a commercially viable product with a significant customer
>> base and ecosystem, Apache Flex does not have the luxury of time
>> as organizations wrestle with the decisions in the 6-12 months
>> over Flex versus HTML5/JS/CSS (hope is not a roadmap).
>>
>> After gleaning through emails and blog posts the following is a list
>> of potential things-to-do-next (please identify anything needing
>> addition/deletion). When considering what is a priority, ask yourself
>> 'is this essential to Apache Flex success beyond the next 6-12 months':
>>
>> 1) 4.6 ViewStack
>> 2) 4.6 Accordion
>> 3) 4.6 DateField
>> 4) 4.6 DataChooser
>> 5) 4.6 Enhanced DataGrid
>> 6) 4.6 missing automation libraries
>> 7) 4.6 missing fabridge
>> 8) 4.6 missing flash-integration
>> 9) 4.6 missing samples
>> 10) 4.6 missing embedded font support
>> 11) 3.x Flex SDK
>> 12) Flex compiler source code
>> 13) BlazeDS/BlazeDS.NET
>> 14) TLF
>> 15) Gravity
>> 16) FXG
>> 17) Squiggles
>> 18) OSMF
>>
>> Notes:
>> Falcon and Falcon JS are not on the list until Q4 2012 and beyond
>> Adobe "Not be contributing the AIR for Linux SDK, LCDS, or LCCS to Apache"
>> Adobe "will ensure that the Adobe Flex SDK 4.6 and prior will be
>> supported in future versions of Flash Player and AIR
>> Adobe "plans to maintain support for Flex projects in updates to Flash
>> Builder 4.x"
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui