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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com> on 2003/07/15 23:33:52 UTC
Woody and user help....
Hi:
Is there some tag for woody that allow us to include some help for the user?
In JXForm exist <xf:help>, I think we can take advantage of oveLib to show
some help:
http://www.bosrup.com/web/overlib/
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
RE: [Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Luca Morandini <lu...@tin.it>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Portier [mailto:mpo@outerthought.org]
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:58 PM
> To: dev@cocoon.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Woody] New tag <wd:hotkey> -> Re: Woody and user help....
>
> thx, I (obvisouly) didn't know :-$
>
> looking at it from this angle it kind of fits nicely in the same
> corner as label and help --> definition rather then template
>
Being on vacation, I missed a few developments in Woody... anyway, at the risk of making a fool of myself:
Shouldn't the help attribute fit in the template domain ?
I mean, I'd like to re-use the same form definition with different templates, such as in the context of an internazionalied app, and
the help text should be chosen according to user's language.
Regards,
------------------------------------------
Luca Morandini
GIS Consultant
lmorandini@ieee.org
http://space.virgilio.it/kumora/index.html
------------------------------------------
Re: [Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Marc Portier <mp...@outerthought.org>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Marc Portier dijo:
>
>>without much thought the hotkey seems to be more of a Template
>>thing, no?
>>
>>although it probably relates to the label... have to think some more
>>
>>in any case (my client side js-knowledge is limited) can you
>>actively do something with this access-key knowledge in HTML forms?
>
>
> Hi:
>
> This is not about js. This is very easy to implement, since HTML 4.01
> there is a attribute:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.9.1
>
> as long as I know XHTML 1.0 has the same attribute.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
>
>
thx, I (obvisouly) didn't know :-$
looking at it from this angle it kind of fits nicely in the same
corner as label and help --> definition rather then template
regards,
-marc=
--
Marc Portier http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0116284/
mpo@outerthought.org mpo@apache.org
Re: [Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Bruno Dumon <br...@outerthought.org>.
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 12:08, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Marc Portier dijo:
> > without much thought the hotkey seems to be more of a Template
> > thing, no?
> >
> > although it probably relates to the label... have to think some more
> >
> > in any case (my client side js-knowledge is limited) can you
> > actively do something with this access-key knowledge in HTML forms?
>
> Hi:
>
> This is not about js. This is very easy to implement, since HTML 4.01
> there is a attribute:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.9.1
>
> as long as I know XHTML 1.0 has the same attribute.
I just tried this out, and it works nicely indeed (at least in mozilla
and IE).
I'm currently thinking to make it something like this:
<wd:label accesskey="x">....</wd:label>
<wd:help href="...">...</wd:help>
Everything (including the accesskey) would be i18n-able using standard
i18n-transformer techniques.
The purpose of the href in the wd:help is if you'd rather (or
additionally) have help opened in a different window.
If you want to use different labels in a certain view (template) you can
of course simply ignore the labels specified in the form definition.
--
Bruno Dumon http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
bruno@outerthought.org bruno@apache.org
Re: [Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Marc Portier dijo:
> without much thought the hotkey seems to be more of a Template
> thing, no?
>
> although it probably relates to the label... have to think some more
>
> in any case (my client side js-knowledge is limited) can you
> actively do something with this access-key knowledge in HTML forms?
Hi:
This is not about js. This is very easy to implement, since HTML 4.01
there is a attribute:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.9.1
as long as I know XHTML 1.0 has the same attribute.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Re: [Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Marc Portier <mp...@outerthought.org>.
without much thought the hotkey seems to be more of a Template
thing, no?
although it probably relates to the label... have to think some more
in any case (my client side js-knowledge is limited) can you
actively do something with this access-key knowledge in HTML forms?
regards,
-marc=
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Bruno Dumon dijo:
>
>>On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 00:09, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>
>>>Hi:
>>>
>>>Will be included the <wd:help> tag into Woody?
>>
>>Oops, sorry for ignoring your previous mail about the topic... actually
>>I have been pondering a while about whether the wd:label tag in the form
>>definition makes any sense at all (and if it shouldn't simply be
>>something that is part of the view template or xsl), and that's what got
>>me distracted. But now I think it does make sense, and thus so does
>>wd:help.
>>
>>I'll try to implement it when I have some time.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> By the way, I think the <wd:label> tag is important too. But it must be
> optional. Sometimes we dont like to show any label for a widget.
>
> <wd:help> must be also a optional tag.
>
> There is missing another tag the <wd:hot-key> or <wd:access-key> tag.
> Maybe this can be an attribute of the <wd:label> tag.
>
> The implementation of this tag also can be a problem with the i18n. For
> example: In a text box:
>
> Language label Hotkey
> english surname "s"
> spanish apellidos "a".
>
> Of course other languages vary. This is a problem that also must be
> solved. Also note that not always the first char is the hotkey. The hot
> key must be unique for every widget in the form. Example:
>
> If we have on the same form text boxes labeled "surname", "source" the hot
> key can be "s" for "surname" and "o" for "source".
>
> I know this things are basics, but not for that we can forget it :)
>
> I just tried to scratchpad this little problem. To show some enhancements
> we can do in the great form machinery called woody.
>
> Of course is up to the implementator is he will implement in the view
> <wd:help>, <wd:label> and <wd:hotkey>.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
>
>
>
--
Marc Portier http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0116284/
mpo@outerthought.org mpo@apache.org
[Woody] New tag -> Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Bruno Dumon dijo:
> On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 00:09, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>> Hi:
>>
>> Will be included the <wd:help> tag into Woody?
>
> Oops, sorry for ignoring your previous mail about the topic... actually
> I have been pondering a while about whether the wd:label tag in the form
> definition makes any sense at all (and if it shouldn't simply be
> something that is part of the view template or xsl), and that's what got
> me distracted. But now I think it does make sense, and thus so does
> wd:help.
>
> I'll try to implement it when I have some time.
Thanks.
By the way, I think the <wd:label> tag is important too. But it must be
optional. Sometimes we dont like to show any label for a widget.
<wd:help> must be also a optional tag.
There is missing another tag the <wd:hot-key> or <wd:access-key> tag.
Maybe this can be an attribute of the <wd:label> tag.
The implementation of this tag also can be a problem with the i18n. For
example: In a text box:
Language label Hotkey
english surname "s"
spanish apellidos "a".
Of course other languages vary. This is a problem that also must be
solved. Also note that not always the first char is the hotkey. The hot
key must be unique for every widget in the form. Example:
If we have on the same form text boxes labeled "surname", "source" the hot
key can be "s" for "surname" and "o" for "source".
I know this things are basics, but not for that we can forget it :)
I just tried to scratchpad this little problem. To show some enhancements
we can do in the great form machinery called woody.
Of course is up to the implementator is he will implement in the view
<wd:help>, <wd:label> and <wd:hotkey>.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Bruno Dumon <br...@outerthought.org>.
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 00:09, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Will be included the <wd:help> tag into Woody?
Oops, sorry for ignoring your previous mail about the topic... actually
I have been pondering a while about whether the wd:label tag in the form
definition makes any sense at all (and if it shouldn't simply be
something that is part of the view template or xsl), and that's what got
me distracted. But now I think it does make sense, and thus so does
wd:help.
I'll try to implement it when I have some time.
--
Bruno Dumon http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
bruno@outerthought.org bruno@apache.org
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Hi:
Will be included the <wd:help> tag into Woody?
Need it a votation?
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> Tony Collen dijo:
>> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>> Tony Collen dijo:
>>>
>>>>Well, call me a luddite but I'm not a huge fan of the DHTML... what's
>>>> wrong with slapping help info in an alt tag?
>>>
>>>
>>> It depends, DHTML with Javascript helps to make some validations for
>>> users before send the page back to the server. DHTML allow to add
>>> some nice features like interactives drop down menus and popup
>>> contextual help. This kind of interaction is what a user has in a
>>> traditional fat client.
>>>
>>> I think there is no way back. Of course if we dont want, we can not
>>> use DHTML at all. But this is up to us. Blocking a feature is not the
>>> answer. In that case a <wd:help> tag must exist for every field and
>>> maybe at form level.
>>>
>>> Contextual help in a web application is a MUST. This is why I think
>>> woody must have a optional tag help. If you want to use it or not ot
>>> depedends of the user. The form how we will render it in HTML or WML
>>> depends of us.
>>>
>>> I would suggest to add <wd:help>. Also JXForms already has it.
>>
>>
>> erp, what I meant to say was misunderstood.
>
> No, I already uderstand you. :)
> What I tried to explain is what you resumed below.
>
>>
>> I'm all for a "help" tag, I'm just not for hardcoding how it ends up
>> appearing (DHTML).
>
> The last transformation woody2html depend of us. This can be easily
> modificable.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo.
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Tony Collen dijo:
> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>> Tony Collen dijo:
>>
>>>Well, call me a luddite but I'm not a huge fan of the DHTML... what's
>>> wrong with slapping help info in an alt tag?
>>
>>
>> It depends, DHTML with Javascript helps to make some validations for
>> users before send the page back to the server. DHTML allow to add some
>> nice features like interactives drop down menus and popup contextual
>> help. This kind of interaction is what a user has in a traditional fat
>> client.
>>
>> I think there is no way back. Of course if we dont want, we can not
>> use DHTML at all. But this is up to us. Blocking a feature is not the
>> answer. In that case a <wd:help> tag must exist for every field and
>> maybe at form level.
>>
>> Contextual help in a web application is a MUST. This is why I think
>> woody must have a optional tag help. If you want to use it or not ot
>> depedends of the user. The form how we will render it in HTML or WML
>> depends of us.
>>
>> I would suggest to add <wd:help>. Also JXForms already has it.
>
>
> erp, what I meant to say was misunderstood.
No, I already uderstand you. :)
What I tried to explain is what you resumed below.
>
> I'm all for a "help" tag, I'm just not for hardcoding how it ends up
> appearing (DHTML).
The last transformation woody2html depend of us. This can be easily
modificable.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Tony Collen dijo:
>
>>Well, call me a luddite but I'm not a huge fan of the DHTML... what's
>>wrong with slapping help info in an alt tag?
>
>
> It depends, DHTML with Javascript helps to make some validations for users
> before send the page back to the server. DHTML allow to add some nice
> features like interactives drop down menus and popup contextual help. This
> kind of interaction is what a user has in a traditional fat client.
>
> I think there is no way back. Of course if we dont want, we can not use
> DHTML at all. But this is up to us. Blocking a feature is not the answer.
> In that case a <wd:help> tag must exist for every field and maybe at form
> level.
>
> Contextual help in a web application is a MUST. This is why I think woody
> must have a optional tag help. If you want to use it or not ot depedends
> of the user. The form how we will render it in HTML or WML depends of us.
>
> I would suggest to add <wd:help>. Also JXForms already has it.
erp, what I meant to say was misunderstood.
I'm all for a "help" tag, I'm just not for hardcoding how it ends up
appearing (DHTML).
Tony
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Tony Collen dijo:
> Well, call me a luddite but I'm not a huge fan of the DHTML... what's
> wrong with slapping help info in an alt tag?
It depends, DHTML with Javascript helps to make some validations for users
before send the page back to the server. DHTML allow to add some nice
features like interactives drop down menus and popup contextual help. This
kind of interaction is what a user has in a traditional fat client.
I think there is no way back. Of course if we dont want, we can not use
DHTML at all. But this is up to us. Blocking a feature is not the answer.
In that case a <wd:help> tag must exist for every field and maybe at form
level.
Contextual help in a web application is a MUST. This is why I think woody
must have a optional tag help. If you want to use it or not ot depedends
of the user. The form how we will render it in HTML or WML depends of us.
I would suggest to add <wd:help>. Also JXForms already has it.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: Woody and user help....
Posted by Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Is there some tag for woody that allow us to include some help for the user?
>
> In JXForm exist <xf:help>, I think we can take advantage of oveLib to show
> some help:
>
> http://www.bosrup.com/web/overlib/
Well, call me a luddite but I'm not a huge fan of the DHTML... what's
wrong with slapping help info in an alt tag?
Tony