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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by kalle hauser <bu...@yahoo.de> on 2013/07/19 13:49:12 UTC
AOO-Members dont forget voting
for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on
http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html
;-)
My question to this:
it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC?
Like SuperKK on the AOO blog says: "You need to work on your PR. Why were there no public beta announcements? The LibreOffice propaganda machine has already convinced many people that OO is dead. Release early, release often."
After finishing work on the major-release AOO4, i hope you bring out bugfix-releases more often than all 6 - 8 month. i my opinion bugfixreleases all 3-4 month would be a good intervall...
btw: i switched to LO 3.5/3.6, after the OOo-develpoment was on-ice/ incubating, but a comparisen of LO4.0 and AOO3.4.1 shows 1 important thing: You Apache-Guys need longer to bring an new release and implement new features, but the quality of your product seems to be higher....
e.g LO announces improvments on Load/Save-speed over and over angain, but in the end, AOO 3.4.1 starts faster than LO 3.6. The improvments on the docx/xlsx/pptx-filters in LO are also not as good as yours.
keep up the good work!
regards
K. Hauser
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>.
Am 19.07.2013 13:49, schrieb kalle hauser:
> for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on
>
> http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html
>
> ;-)
>
> My question to this:
>
> it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC?
+1
RCs should announced on announce@openoffice.apache.org.
Regards
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org> wrote:
> I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update
> available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this list
> ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the version.
>
Yes, but that is because OpenOffice 4.0 as not been released yet.
That will happen next week. After that you should get a notification
of an update when you open AOO 3.4.1. It could take up to one week
for that notification to occur, since it only checks once per week by
default.
-Rob
> Dale Erwin
> Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03
> Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU
> http://leather.casaerwin.org
>
>
> On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via
>> the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by
>> default) and notifies the user if there is an update available.
>
>
>
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Mike Hancock <mi...@gmail.com>.
Me too! I checked it manually (3.4.1) and result was "Open Office up to
date".
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org> wrote:
> I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update
> available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this list
> ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the version.
>
> Dale Erwin
> Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03
> Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU
> http://leather.casaerwin.org
>
> On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via
>> the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by
>> default) and notifies the user if there is an update available.
>>
>
>
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>
>
--
Mike Hancock :<)
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
I am using 3.4.1 and have never seen a notice that there was an update
available. The only time I've heard of 4.0 is seeing someone on this
list ask questions about it. I thought they were mistaken about the
version.
Dale Erwin
Jr. 28 de Julio 657, Depto. 03
Magdalena del Mar, Lima 17 PERU
http://leather.casaerwin.org
On 7/20/2013 5:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via
> the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by
> default) and notifies the user if there is an update available.
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Scooter <sc...@scootersdesk.com> wrote:
> Good Afternoon Rob & Group,
>
> I whole heartily agree with your summation.
> I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that
> worked, then the fastpace "maybe it will work" and see if the users find the
> problems the developers missed.
> I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that there
> seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary is now
> working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the user doesn't
> have to figure out whether they have the latest or not. Possibly some way to
> notify of upcoming updates?
In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via
the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by
default) and notifies the user if there is an update available.
-Rob
> I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it isn't
> 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread sheet
> department. I need converted "xls" to work with my AutoCad software, which
> currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of AutoDesk, who doesn't keep
> up with new world of office software. I am not one to hang on to expensive
> Office software because of one program that requires its usage.
> I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of
> excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in "Incubation",
> that word gave me the shivers.
>
> Take Care.
> Scooter
> College Park, MD USA
>
> Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington <cu...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media,
>>>> and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press
>>>> release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some
>>>> other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major
>>>> announcements.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
>>>> I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to
>>>> compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement
>>>> here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new
>>> versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the
>>> latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It
>>> can
>>> be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you
>>> had
>>> thought was fixed.
>>>
>>> But...
>>>
>>> The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1
>>> is
>>> a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version
>>> to
>>> properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for
>>> years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when
>>> hyphenation
>>> is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in
>>> Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new
>>> version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim
>>> release
>>> fixing known and critical bugs could be made.
>>>
>>> Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and
>>> AOO's seemingly non-existent pace.
>>>
>> I think the compromise then is with quality.
>>
>> Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The
>> main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs
>> to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and
>> architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the
>> product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we
>> try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed
>> chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs,
>> of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and
>> fixing old bugs.
>>
>> Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would
>> mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing.
>> That, I think, would be very inefficient.
>>
>> We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship
>> based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would
>> allow us to release more frequently as well.
>>
>> I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want.
>>
>> IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way
>> to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2
>> months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done,
>> hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers.
>>
>> Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for
>> formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature
>> testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Virgil
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Scooter <sc...@scootersdesk.com>.
Good Afternoon Rob & Group,
I whole heartily agree with your summation.
I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that
worked, then the fastpace "maybe it will work" and see if the users find
the problems the developers missed.
I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that
there seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary
is now working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the
user doesn't have to figure out whether they have the latest or not.
Possibly some way to notify of upcoming updates?
I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it
isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread
sheet department. I need converted "xls" to work with my AutoCad
software, which currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of
AutoDesk, who doesn't keep up with new world of office software. I am
not one to hang on to expensive Office software because of one program
that requires its usage.
I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of
excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in
"Incubation", that word gave me the shivers.
Take Care.
Scooter
College Park, MD USA
Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM:
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington <cu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media,
>>> and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press
>>> release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some
>>> other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major
>>> announcements.
>>
>>> I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
>>> I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to
>>> compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement
>>> here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
>>
>> I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new
>> versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the
>> latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can
>> be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had
>> thought was fixed.
>>
>> But...
>>
>> The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is
>> a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to
>> properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for
>> years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation
>> is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in
>> Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new
>> version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release
>> fixing known and critical bugs could be made.
>>
>> Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and
>> AOO's seemingly non-existent pace.
>>
> I think the compromise then is with quality.
>
> Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The
> main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs
> to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and
> architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the
> product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we
> try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed
> chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs,
> of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and
> fixing old bugs.
>
> Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would
> mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing.
> That, I think, would be very inefficient.
>
> We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship
> based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would
> allow us to release more frequently as well.
>
> I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want.
>
> IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way
> to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2
> months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done,
> hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers.
>
> Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for
> formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature
> testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>> Virgil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington <cu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media,
>> and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press
>> release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some
>> other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major
>> announcements.
>
>
>> I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
>> I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to
>> compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement
>> here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
>
>
> I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new
> versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the
> latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can
> be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had
> thought was fixed.
>
> But...
>
> The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is
> a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to
> properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for
> years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation
> is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in
> Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new
> version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release
> fixing known and critical bugs could be made.
>
> Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and
> AOO's seemingly non-existent pace.
>
I think the compromise then is with quality.
Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The
main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs
to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and
architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the
product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we
try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed
chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs,
of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and
fixing old bugs.
Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would
mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing.
That, I think, would be very inefficient.
We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship
based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would
allow us to release more frequently as well.
I don't think either kind of "compromise" is what our users really want.
IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way
to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2
months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done,
hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers.
Also, a public beta or "bug finding contests" is not a substitute for
formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature
testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback.
Regards,
-Rob
> Virgil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Virgil Arrington <cu...@hotmail.com>.
On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote:
>We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media,
>and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press
>release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some
>other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major
>announcements.
>I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
>I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to
>compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement
>here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new
versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the
latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can
be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had
thought was fixed.
But...
The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is
a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to
properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for
years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation
is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in
Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new
version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release
fixing known and critical bugs could be made.
Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and
AOO's seemingly non-existent pace.
Virgil
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RE: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Maurice Howe <ma...@stny.rr.com>.
I'm repeating myself, but...
The AOO crew continues to serve us well -- not only with a quality product
but with well-phrased responses to inquiries and problems. I was part of
engineering & software development, publications, etc, at Big Blue for many
years, so I have a soft spot in my heart for you; the volunteers who "keep
the wheels on" with this first-rate offering. Thanks, Guy & Gals!
Maurice Howe
[just a user, but a happy one!]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:14 PM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:49 AM, kalle hauser <bu...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on
>
> http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html
>
> ;-)
>
> My question to this:
>
> it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO
4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public
testing of the RC?
>
> Like SuperKK on the AOO blog says: "You need to work on your PR. Why were
there no public beta announcements? The LibreOffice propaganda machine has
already convinced many people that OO is dead. Release early, release
often."
>
We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and
this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release
every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other
projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements.
For example, the AOO 4.0 press release already went out. You might not have
seen it, but that's the point. Press releases are for the press, so they
can write their stories. They want "the scoop". We're doing press
interviews for AOO 4.0 as well. Remember, if it is on our
website then it is not news anymore. So we should not confuse noise
with impact.
There is an open source echo-chamber, and saying the same tired FUD within
that small circle of authors will not convince or convert a single user to
move toward or away from OpenOffice. Or at least it will have very little
impact compared to the effort. We need to find a way to reach out, beyond
the "usual suspects" and get the news to a new audience. Remember, the
growth for AOO is not from those within the open source community. The
growth is from those who have never heard of open source.
> After finishing work on the major-release AOO4, i hope you bring out
bugfix-releases more often than all 6 - 8 month. i my opinion bugfixreleases
all 3-4 month would be a good intervall...
>
>
> btw: i switched to LO 3.5/3.6, after the OOo-develpoment was on-ice/
incubating, but a comparisen of LO4.0 and AOO3.4.1 shows 1 important thing:
You Apache-Guys need longer to bring an new release and implement new
features, but the quality of your product seems to be higher....
>
I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on
quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are
discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
Regards,
-Rob
> e.g LO announces improvments on Load/Save-speed over and over angain, but
in the end, AOO 3.4.1 starts faster than LO 3.6. The improvments on the
docx/xlsx/pptx-filters in LO are also not as good as yours.
>
>
> keep up the good work!
>
> regards
>
> K. Hauser
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Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:49 AM, kalle hauser <bu...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on
>
> http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html
>
> ;-)
>
> My question to this:
>
> it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC?
>
> Like SuperKK on the AOO blog says: "You need to work on your PR. Why were there no public beta announcements? The LibreOffice propaganda machine has already convinced many people that OO is dead. Release early, release often."
>
We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media,
and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press
release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some
other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major
announcements.
For example, the AOO 4.0 press release already went out. You might
not have seen it, but that's the point. Press releases are for the
press, so they can write their stories. They want "the scoop". We're
doing press interviews for AOO 4.0 as well. Remember, if it is on our
website then it is not news anymore. So we should not confuse noise
with impact.
There is an open source echo-chamber, and saying the same tired FUD
within that small circle of authors will not convince or convert a
single user to move toward or away from OpenOffice. Or at least it
will have very little impact compared to the effort. We need to find
a way to reach out, beyond the "usual suspects" and get the news to a
new audience. Remember, the growth for AOO is not from those within
the open source community. The growth is from those who have never
heard of open source.
> After finishing work on the major-release AOO4, i hope you bring out bugfix-releases more often than all 6 - 8 month. i my opinion bugfixreleases all 3-4 month would be a good intervall...
>
>
> btw: i switched to LO 3.5/3.6, after the OOo-develpoment was on-ice/ incubating, but a comparisen of LO4.0 and AOO3.4.1 shows 1 important thing: You Apache-Guys need longer to bring an new release and implement new features, but the quality of your product seems to be higher....
>
I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality.
I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to
compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement
here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1.
Regards,
-Rob
> e.g LO announces improvments on Load/Save-speed over and over angain, but in the end, AOO 3.4.1 starts faster than LO 3.6. The improvments on the docx/xlsx/pptx-filters in LO are also not as good as yours.
>
>
> keep up the good work!
>
> regards
>
> K. Hauser
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