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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> on 2018/08/08 09:42:04 UTC
Installers
I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
needed.
Re: Installers
Posted by Ryan Cuprak <rc...@gmail.com>.
Just out of curiosity, what about distributing NetBeans via the Apple App Store? That of course is an issue post-installer creation. Most apps I install I get from the App Store - prefer the app store for a variety of reasons.
To do this, we would need an Apple Developer account owned by Apache. You have to provide some documentation to Apple to prove that you are a legitimate entity - something only someone at Apache could do.
With the Mac installer, is the plan to include OpenJDK so that the IDE runs without any additional setup work?
-Ryan
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 9:21 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Tim. I have been looking at the MacOS pkgbuild to do the build.
> I have not looking into making it portable yet but if that can work, it's
> certainly the way to go.
>
> The first (non-pkg) version I did ran OK but I believe there is a
> permission (ownership) issue with the current version.
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:59 PM Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:27 PM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is
>>> to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the
>>> advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases
>>> Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting
>> in
>>> your Downloads folder.
>>
>>
>> That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of
>> telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users".
>>
>> Back in 2004-5, I wrote the first Ant-based stuff to generate a PKG for
>> NetBeans - it wasn't too hard. At the time I dug a little bit into making
>> that build truly cross platform. Think I wrote a blog about it on java.net
>> at the time. You needed to have pax to build the archive - it's actually
>> part of the posix standard and generates tar-compatible archives (after
>> much digging I figured out that tar would not generate a valid PKG and the
>> only difference in the archives was the inclusion of an entry for./ -
>> strange but true). The missing link was apple's hdiutil utility for
>> creating disk images - I remember digging around in OpenDarwin a bit but I
>> don't remember if I didn't find it or just wasn't ambitious enough to build
>> it for Linux. At any rate, that problem may have been solved by now. So it
>> would be worth looking into.
>>
>> I don't think PKG files are particularly fancy or difficult to build - the
>> plist format is well documented, and after that its just laying out the
>> files and bundling them up - fussy, but once it works it works.
>>
>> So I think with a little work we might be able to do portable PKG builds.
>>
>> It sounds like someone has been working a bit on PKG generation? If so I
>> could take a look and see what I remember from days of yore.
>>
>> -Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go
>> with
>>>> .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot
>> of
>>>> "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
>>>>
>>>> The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running
>> it
>>>> directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's
>> not
>>>> that unusual.
>>>>
>>>> Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
>>>> compression used for .dmg images.
>>>>
>>>> I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
>>>>
>>>> -Tim
>>>>
>>>> Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with
>> the
>>>>> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require
>>> admin
>>>>> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be
>>> able
>>>>> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows
>> as
>>>>> well
>>>>>> but that's a policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something
>> similar
>>>>>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
>>>>> order
>>>>>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem
>>> is
>>>>>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
>>>>> need
>>>>>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <willhartung@gmail.com
>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
>>>>> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows
>>> platform
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
>>>>> explain,
>>>>>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>>>>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to
>>> install.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Carl J. Mosca
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> http://timboudreau.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> http://timboudreau.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Thank you Tim. I have been looking at the MacOS pkgbuild to do the build.
I have not looking into making it portable yet but if that can work, it's
certainly the way to go.
The first (non-pkg) version I did ran OK but I believe there is a
permission (ownership) issue with the current version.
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:59 PM Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:27 PM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is
> > to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the
> > advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases
> > Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting
> in
> > your Downloads folder.
>
>
> That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of
> telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users".
>
> Back in 2004-5, I wrote the first Ant-based stuff to generate a PKG for
> NetBeans - it wasn't too hard. At the time I dug a little bit into making
> that build truly cross platform. Think I wrote a blog about it on java.net
> at the time. You needed to have pax to build the archive - it's actually
> part of the posix standard and generates tar-compatible archives (after
> much digging I figured out that tar would not generate a valid PKG and the
> only difference in the archives was the inclusion of an entry for./ -
> strange but true). The missing link was apple's hdiutil utility for
> creating disk images - I remember digging around in OpenDarwin a bit but I
> don't remember if I didn't find it or just wasn't ambitious enough to build
> it for Linux. At any rate, that problem may have been solved by now. So it
> would be worth looking into.
>
> I don't think PKG files are particularly fancy or difficult to build - the
> plist format is well documented, and after that its just laying out the
> files and bundling them up - fussy, but once it works it works.
>
> So I think with a little work we might be able to do portable PKG builds.
>
> It sounds like someone has been working a bit on PKG generation? If so I
> could take a look and see what I remember from days of yore.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > > On Aug 12, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go
> with
> > > .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot
> of
> > > "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
> > >
> > > The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running
> it
> > > directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's
> not
> > > that unusual.
> > >
> > > Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
> > > compression used for .dmg images.
> > >
> > > I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
> > >
> > > -Tim
> > >
> > > Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with
> the
> > >> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require
> > admin
> > >> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be
> > able
> > >> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
> > >>
> > >> Scott
> > >>
> > >>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows
> as
> > >> well
> > >>> but that's a policy.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
> > >>>
> > >>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something
> similar
> > >>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
> > >> order
> > >>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem
> > is
> > >>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
> > >>>
> > >>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
> > >> need
> > >>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
> > >>>
> > >>> Carl
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <willhartung@gmail.com
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> > >> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows
> > platform
> > >> is
> > >>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
> > >> explain,
> > >>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> > >>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to
> > install.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Carl J. Mosca
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > > http://timboudreau.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> http://timboudreau.com
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 22:11, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:42, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes,
>>> but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as
>>> unfriendly for macOS users?
>>
>> Power users aside, it’s unfriendly for users of any OS. My test team team are a good example of people that want a one click setup, my devs just want to develop without needing to fiddle with a tool chain.
>
> Are we talking about the same thing here!? Double-click netbeans.zip
> to extract, double-click netbeans.app to run.
Actually, I did overlook this. I think that’s fine.
The thing I’m questioning though is I still think we need an installer when we do JEE, as it needs to install tomcat/glassfish (user ticks), then configures the IDE and container with user provided port settings.
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Raul Cosio <rc...@gmail.com>.
Hi everyone, first of all, thank you guys for this effort to continue
improving Netbeans. I've been following this mail list for a while, because
I wish I could contribute to the project, but it's not been easy and I'm
still learning, maybe someday... :)
I just wanted to express my point of view about the recent question of why
its so difficult for users to extract an app file from a zip after the idea
of putting Netbeans for Mac on the App store (which I thing is a great
idea). Well, I can tell that I didn't know that. I have programmed with
Java since version 0.9, and I still feel like a newbie because today there
are so many components and utilities, that sometimes I feel I'm spending my
time learning how to use a tool instead of working on my projects. I just
compiled Netbeans from the sources, and still I wish I had an installer,
because even when I have the app, I'm not sure that I'm using the "official
version" if there is one, and I don't look myself spending 40 minutes
compiling each time a new version is released. I have also watched the
videos from Geertjan Wielenga which I think are great, but I still don't
like the idea of running Netbeans from a Download folder and having all the
time a terminal window showing log messages.
The first computer I used was a Macintosh 512KB, I used to like Macs, they
were impressive, with its graphical user interface, mouse, windows, menus,
it was very easy to learn to use a computer, everything was intuitive,
there was not a command screen, it was not needed. And now?, well maybe I
hate them, because its all the opposite of what they were.
I think power users have walked the road many times that its transparent
for them, but for a user like me? well, it's a .zip file, a black box, I
don't know what's inside, until I unpack the file, which maybe is going to
create hundreds of files, which one is the correct?, so maybe I'll find the
readme where it describes an installation procedure or maybe not, and if it
does, I'm going to read about which version of Java is supported and system
requirements. What is my Java version?, so next I need to open a terminal
and type "java" to find out, by the way, do I need a JAVA_HOME environment
variable just like Windows? Is my PATH environment variable pointing to the
Java installation?, If I have multiple versions of Java installed, which
one will be used by Netbeans?, and let's say that I end opening the correct
application, I don't feel confortable with that, its like working with a
prototype. To move app to the Applications folder, will I need to copy all
the folders tree? I don't want to look it like a garbage of folders, maybe
installing a just a link?, how do I make a link?. Maybe I copy the app into
the applications folder but, what will it happen then? will everything be
saved in the applications folder? It will look ugly.
Of course each of these questions has an answer, but I need to investigate
one by one until I start to know Netbeans, however, will that be the road
I'll have to walk each time a new version is released? If I overwrite the
Netbeans folder, will I transparently upgrade to the new version?, in the
long term, will I end with hundreds of files/folders that are not used
anymore?, and what about the plugins I have currently installed and
working?. By the way, how many directories does Netbeans use?.
At the end, I like Netbeans but I really don't care about details, I just
want to spend 2 hours working on my own projects, not learning how to use
the IDE, I wish I had an installer, where I just click on it, upgrade my
version and continue with my stuff... what about Netbeans on the App Store?
just install, and let the app store upgrade it, period. There is a point
where I prefer an installer make the decisions for me instead of me having
to control everything when I'm not an expert, its like buying a new car in
a big box with all its parts, and an easy manual that shows me how to build
that car before using it.
The reason I've been using Netbeans over other IDEs is: Easy to install,
easy to upgrade and easy to use... +1 to following that direction :)
Regards,
On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 7:11 AM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:42, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes,
> > > but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as
> > > unfriendly for macOS users?
> >
> > Power users aside, it’s unfriendly for users of any OS. My test team
> team are a good example of people that want a one click setup, my devs just
> want to develop without needing to fiddle with a tool chain.
>
> Are we talking about the same thing here!? Double-click netbeans.zip
> to extract, double-click netbeans.app to run.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 14 Aug 2018, at 20:14, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> wrote:
>
> I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the
> ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gdC7BBtbs
>
> Each takes less than 5 minutes, comments welcome.
Nice Gj, this is great for power users, but NetBeans IDE has always targeted non-power users, testing teams love it, DBA’s love it, web devs love it, as we say; we’re not just targeting java devs.
In my workplace the competition is IntelliJ, mostly because scala is widely used in BigData, and unfortunately we’re lacking in that space. If you take a look at the IntelliJ installer it’s actually pretty slick, you install from DMG, then you launch and it asks you what type of development you’re going to do (java, scala, ...). Interesting to note is the same thing for python (pyCharm) is a seperate product.
I’m not an advocate of IntelliJ, while it installs and looks slick it is IMHO horrible.
I think we need to look at our competition.
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 22:03, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac
>>> Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the
>>> Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big
>>> arrow, essentially telling you to drag the App in to the Applications
>>> folder.
>>>
>>> That's a "mac install". That's a "friendly" mac install. Digging stuff
>> out
>>> of zip files is not as "mac friendly".
>>>
>>> Tim's point of moving to an Installer to essentially "force" folks to
>>> actually drag the app off of the DMG is interesting, and, honestly, not
>>> surprising.
>>
>> I'm glad you put "friendly" in quotation marks there! ;-) I
>> understand technically what's going on. I'm trying to work out why
>> anyone thinks that's user-friendly. By the time I read the need for
>> Tim's workaround there my palm is getting seriously close to my face.
>> Did you read the article I linked to earlier? I found that when
>> deciding which approach to use for my own app bundle. And, while it
>> might be less common, shipping app bundles in a zip is not completely
>> unknown and you'll find quite a few people advocating for it. Still,
>> the UI studies quoted from Firefox aside, they ship it in a DMG!
>>
>> i asked mainly because a zipped app bundle seems to be the easiest
>> option to create here, without the can-be-run-from-dmg downside. I'm
>> definitely happy sticking with zip for my own usage right now!
>> However, not going to say any more on this as it's not my main
>> platform. I would, mind you, love to ditch the installers on every
>> platform!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I have gotten pushback on occasion when I ask Java developers who invented
Java as an early on interview question. One does not have to know this to
be a good developer but I do like to consider the source when I read an
opinion. 😊
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 15 Aug 2018, at 09:21, James Gosling <ja...@norquay.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ---- That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at
> work from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them.
> >
> > I get the same reaction at work…. From people who use Vi and Emacs. I
> have a hard time believing how entrenched the “REAL engineers use Vi” cult
> is. There’s something about editors from the 70s that really pumps up the
> testosterone.
>
> Don’t dis vi, I am a vi guy. It’s still the easiest tool for mass changes,
> and the various visual modes in vim (CTRL+V) are awesome.
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
On 15 Aug 2018, at 09:21, James Gosling <ja...@norquay.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ---- That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at work from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them.
>
> I get the same reaction at work…. From people who use Vi and Emacs. I have a hard time believing how entrenched the “REAL engineers use Vi” cult is. There’s something about editors from the 70s that really pumps up the testosterone.
Don’t dis vi, I am a vi guy. It’s still the easiest tool for mass changes, and the various visual modes in vim (CTRL+V) are awesome.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by James Gosling <ja...@norquay.com>.
> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ---- That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at work from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them.
I get the same reaction at work…. From people who use Vi and Emacs. I have a hard time believing how entrenched the “REAL engineers use Vi” cult is. There’s something about editors from the 70s that really pumps up the testosterone.
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Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 15 Aug 2018, at 06:04, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
>> can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
>>
> 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
> list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
> experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends "don't
> use NetBeans".
Because other software provides better installers? That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at work from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them.
> -Tim
>
> --
> http://timboudreau.com
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Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:23 PM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
> > > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
> > >
> > 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
> > list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
> > experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends
> "don't
> > use NetBeans".
>
>
> I was just thinking about this, and, while there may be others, Apache
> isn't that well known for it's "desktop" software.
>
> However, there's Apache DS Studio.
>
> Here's a link to their download page.
>
> https://directory.apache.org/studio/download/download-macosx.html
>
> I mentioned this simply to show that others are doing it within the Apache
> eco-system, so we should be able to also.
>
>
And here's how you can subscribe to their dev mailing list to ask how they
did it and how you can do it too to create the solution you're missing in
Apache NetBeans: dev-subscribe@directory.apache.org
As soon as you've done it and have a working solution, I'll be very happy
to make a nice YouTube clip to explain how to use it.
It will be a great addition to the Apache NetBeans project and I really
encourage you (or anyone else missing a DMG solution) to pursue this path.
Thanks,
Gj
> I don't know if this is enough to mitigate the performance problems of not
> using an installer.
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
I'm missing something here - there is nothing even difficult about building
a.pkg - the format is well documented and all doable with command line
tools that can be automated with any build tool. It's not rocket science.
Why the assumption that we can't possibly do an installer?
Apache having a bad rep for desktop software isn't an excuse - it's not
like we have to make things crappier to fit in.
-Tim
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 4:23 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
> > > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
> > >
> > 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
> > list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
> > experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends
> "don't
> > use NetBeans".
>
>
> I was just thinking about this, and, while there may be others, Apache
> isn't that well known for it's "desktop" software.
>
> However, there's Apache DS Studio.
>
> Here's a link to their download page.
>
> https://directory.apache.org/studio/download/download-macosx.html
>
> I mentioned this simply to show that others are doing it within the Apache
> eco-system, so we should be able to also.
>
> I don't know if this is enough to mitigate the performance problems of not
> using an installer.
>
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Installers
Posted by Gail Anderson <ga...@asgteach.com>.
+1 for having a user-friendly installer for Mac users.
Really, one of NB’s strongest points was how easy it is to install/configure/use.
> On Aug 14, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
>>> can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
>>>
>> 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
>> list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
>> experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends "don't
>> use NetBeans".
>
>
> I was just thinking about this, and, while there may be others, Apache
> isn't that well known for it's "desktop" software.
>
> However, there's Apache DS Studio.
>
> Here's a link to their download page.
>
> https://directory.apache.org/studio/download/download-macosx.html
>
> I mentioned this simply to show that others are doing it within the Apache
> eco-system, so we should be able to also.
>
> I don't know if this is enough to mitigate the performance problems of not
> using an installer.
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Re: Installers
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
> > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
> >
> 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
> list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
> experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends "don't
> use NetBeans".
I was just thinking about this, and, while there may be others, Apache
isn't that well known for it's "desktop" software.
However, there's Apache DS Studio.
Here's a link to their download page.
https://directory.apache.org/studio/download/download-macosx.html
I mentioned this simply to show that others are doing it within the Apache
eco-system, so we should be able to also.
I don't know if this is enough to mitigate the performance problems of not
using an installer.
Re: Installers
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
> can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
>
99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing
list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the
experience, or writing something on social media, or telling friends "don't
use NetBeans".
-Tim
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> > Excellent. So, where is your DMG solution, please?
> >
> > Can you stop sending e-mails for the moment and create the solution that
> > you're missing? Yes, maybe you don't know how to do that, though maybe
> you
> > can invest the time that you would have spent in replying to this in
> > learning how to do what it is that you believe should be done?
> >
>
> Apparently you're only allowed to contribute to this list if you have a
> pull request pending.
>
Well, that would be the very least to expect when you dismiss the existing
solutions as "these techniques are both, simply, terrible". :-)
Gj
>
> That's fine.
>
> But, before I go, it's was not even clear there was consensus on what to
> do, what was desired, and was positing potential alternatives. For all I
> know, folks would rather have a MacPorts or Homebrew solution and tell the
> MacOs users "Let them eat bash scripts!".
>
> That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly evidence
> of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base
> puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The actual
> build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
> Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the nb.org
> page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans hudson
> support, not the build.
>
> Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac Mini.
> If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper permissions
> acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can be
> ported to the new infrastructure.
>
> Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the wheel if
> it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> supported.
>
> But, I don't know.
>
> Regards.
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
While a .dmg is common, I actually think a .zip is simpler because:
- it can easily be made on any platform
- Safari will automatically unzip it leaving a simple application bundle in the user’s download folder
Scott
> On Feb 2, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Michal Konrad Owsiak <mi...@owsiak.org> wrote:
>
> In my, personal view, DMG are much simpler for users.
>
> http://www.owsiak.org/netbeans-make-macos-installer-beautiful-again/
>
> All you have to do is to drag and drop app.
>
> And you can drop it into your $HOME/Applications if you are not a super user.
>
> Michal
>
> On 2018/08/20 10:02:04, Carl Mosca <c....@gmail.com> wrote: > Excellent, thank you, will take a look.> > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 1:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > > Here's info about the installer-related code that is being audited for> > > donation:> > >> > > http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI> > >> > > Gj> > >> > >> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:> > >> > > > Got it, thank you.> > > >> > > > Carl> > > >> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > >> > > > > Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.> > > > >> > > > > What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the> > > > code> > > > > to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and> > > > truly> > > > > does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In> > > > this> > > > > particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not be> > > > > releasing the code that is used to build the installers, i.e., these> > > are> > > > > build/compile-time relevant only, so the question of distribution of> > > > these> > > > > files is irrelevant.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > Gj> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > OK thank you.> > > > > >> > > > > > My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the> > > > original> > > > > > authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write> > > > the> > > > > > new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney.> > > :)> > > > > >> > > > > > Carl> > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga> > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems> > > > with> > > > > > > parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this> > > thread> > > > > > > updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as> > > > > > possible> > > > > > > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those> > > > > > > knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this> > > thread)> > > > > > would> > > > > > > look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on> > > > do> > > > > > the> > > > > > > job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up> > > expertise> > > > in> > > > > > > this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to> > > > support> > > > > > and> > > > > > > answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge> > > the> > > > > > > better.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Gj> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code> > > was> > > > > not> > > > > > > > available due to IP and/or license issues.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thank you Gj.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga> > > > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <> > > > > willhartung@gmail.com> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most> > > > > certainly> > > > > > > > > evidence> > > > > > > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind> > > of> > > > my> > > > > > > base> > > > > > > > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build> > > it?> > > > > The> > > > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost> > > > with> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at> > > the> > > > > > > nb.org> > > > > > > > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to> > > > NetBeans> > > > > > > > hudson> > > > > > > > > > support, not the build.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > That's a good point.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including> > > > DMG> > > > > > > > > installers.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related> > > > scripts> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > so> > > > > > > > > on are found:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since> > > > we> > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'> > > > > > cluster,> > > > > > > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg> > > > repo> > > > > > > into> > > > > > > > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd> > > > > donation.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've> > > had> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the> > > > > donation.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above> > > > > folder> > > > > > --> > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows,> > > > Linux,> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > Mac.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Gj> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running> > > on a> > > > > Mac> > > > > > > > Mini.> > > > > > > > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper> > > > > > > permissions> > > > > > > > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous> > > > build> > > > > > can> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > ported to the new infrastructure.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention> > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > > > wheel> > > > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted> > > to> > > > > have> > > > > > > > > > supported.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > But, I don't know.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --> > > > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > --> > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > >> > >> >
>
> --
> www.owsiak.org
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 16:13 Michal Konrad Owsiak <michal@owsiak.org wrote:
> In my, personal view, DMG are much simpler for users.
>
So, you don't agree with that link I posted earlier then? :-)
Two questions if we use DMG. Firstly, how much of an issue is what Tim
mentioned about users running from the DMG, or are there mitigating things
that can be done? Secondly, and more importantly, how could we implement an
optional JRE/JDK downloader with this approach?
Best wishes,
Neil
Re: Installers
Posted by Michal Konrad Owsiak <mi...@owsiak.org>.
In my, personal view, DMG are much simpler for users.
http://www.owsiak.org/netbeans-make-macos-installer-beautiful-again/
All you have to do is to drag and drop app.
And you can drop it into your $HOME/Applications if you are not a super
user.
Michal
On 2018/08/20 10:02:04, Carl Mosca <c....@gmail.com> wrote: > Excellent,
thank you, will take a look.> > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 1:46 AM Geertjan
Wielenga> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > > Here's info
about the installer-related code that is being audited for> > >
donation:> > >> > > http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI> >
>> > > Gj> > >> > >> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca
<ca...@gmail.com> wrote:> > >> > > > Got it, thank you.> > > >> > > >
Carl> > > >> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga> >
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > >> > > > > Note,
everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.> > > > >> >
> > > What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to
donate the> > > > code> > > > > to Apache, which means Oracle needs to
make sure the code really and> > > > truly> > > > > does belong to
Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In> > > > this> > >
> > particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not
be> > > > > releasing the code that is used to build the installers,
i.e., these> > > are> > > > > build/compile-time relevant only, so the
question of distribution of> > > > these> > > > > files is irrelevant.>
> > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > Gj> > > > >> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca
<ca...@gmail.com>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > OK thank you.> > > >
> >> > > > > > My understanding is that in general if there are IP
issues, the> > > > original> > > > > > authors cannot write the
new/replacement code and those who may write> > > > the> > > > > > new
code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney.> > >
:)> > > > > >> > > > > > Carl> > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018
at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga> > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>
wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > Yes, it slipped through the cracks.
Possibly there'll be problems> > > > with> > > > > > > parts of the code
because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this> > > thread> > > > > > >
updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as> > > >
> > possible> > > > > > > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would
really help if those> > > > > > > knowledgeable in this area (there
appear to be a lot, in this> > > thread)> > > > > > would> > > > > > >
look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on> > >
> do> > > > > > the> > > > > > > job and are what's needed, we're going
to need to build up> > > expertise> > > > in> > > > > > > this area
together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to> > > > support> >
> > > > and> > > > > > > answer questions and so on, but the more we
spread the knowledge> > > the> > > > > > > better.> > > > > > >> > > > >
> > Gj> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl
Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> > > >> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this
code> > > was> > > > > not> > > > > > > > available due to IP and/or
license issues.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thank you Gj.> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga> >
> > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <> > > > >
willhartung@gmail.com> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > That said, looking at the git
zip download, there's most> > > > > certainly> > > > > > > > > evidence>
> > > > > > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which
was kind> > > of> > > > my> > > > > > > base> > > > > > > > > > puzzle.
These existed before, where's the scripts to build> > > it?> > > > >
The> > > > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > > > build scripts I can't find,
I don't know if they are on/lost> > > > with> > > > > > the> > > > > > >
> > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at> > >
the> > > > > > > nb.org> > > > > > > > > > page). All of the hudson.*
directories seem to relate to> > > > NetBeans> > > > > > > > hudson> > >
> > > > > > > support, not the build.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > That's a good point.> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans
releases, including> > > > DMG> > > > > > > > > installers.> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where
the related> > > > scripts> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > so> > > > > > >
> > on are found:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process,
since> > > > we> > > > > > have> > > > > > > > > been focusing on
clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'> > > > > > cluster,> > > >
> > > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So, we will work on including the
installer folder from the hg> > > > repo> > > > > > > into> > > > > > >
> > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd> > > >
> donation.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Apologies for not
thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've> > > had> > > > > the> > > >
> > > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the> >
> > > donation.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Can those
knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above> > > > > folder> > >
> > > --> > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > includes everything needed
AFAIK for installers for Windows,> > > > Linux,> > > > > > and> > > > >
> > > > Mac.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Gj> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Finally, the
Apache infrastructure has a build bot running> > > on a> > > > > Mac> >
> > > > > > Mini.> > > > > > > > > > If the original build scripts can
be found, and the proper> > > > > > > permissions> > > > > > > > > >
acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous> > > > build>
> > > > > can> > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > ported to the new
infrastructure.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Ideally, this
shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention> > > of> > > > > the> > >
> > > > > wheel> > > > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > > it were deigned
to be something that the group still wanted> > > to> > > > > have> > > >
> > > > > > supported.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > But, I
don't know.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -->
> > > > > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > > > --> > > > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > > > >> > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > --> > > > Carl J. Mosca> > > >> > >> >
--
www.owsiak.org
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Excellent, thank you, will take a look.
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 1:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Here's info about the installer-related code that is being audited for
> donation:
>
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Got it, thank you.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.
> > >
> > > What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the
> > code
> > > to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and
> > truly
> > > does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In
> > this
> > > particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not be
> > > releasing the code that is used to build the installers, i.e., these
> are
> > > build/compile-time relevant only, so the question of distribution of
> > these
> > > files is irrelevant.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > OK thank you.
> > > >
> > > > My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the
> > original
> > > > authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write
> > the
> > > > new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney.
> :)
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems
> > with
> > > > > parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this
> thread
> > > > > updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as
> > > > possible
> > > > > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
> > > > > knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this
> thread)
> > > > would
> > > > > look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on
> > do
> > > > the
> > > > > job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up
> expertise
> > in
> > > > > this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to
> > support
> > > > and
> > > > > answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge
> the
> > > > > better.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <carljmosca@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code
> was
> > > not
> > > > > > available due to IP and/or license issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you Gj.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <
> > > willhartung@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most
> > > certainly
> > > > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind
> of
> > my
> > > > > base
> > > > > > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build
> it?
> > > The
> > > > > > actual
> > > > > > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at
> the
> > > > > nb.org
> > > > > > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to
> > NetBeans
> > > > > > hudson
> > > > > > > > support, not the build.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's a good point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including
> > DMG
> > > > > > > installers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related
> > scripts
> > > > and
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > on are found:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since
> > we
> > > > have
> > > > > > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'
> > > > cluster,
> > > > > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg
> > repo
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd
> > > donation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've
> had
> > > the
> > > > > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the
> > > donation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above
> > > folder
> > > > --
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows,
> > Linux,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > Mac.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gj
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running
> on a
> > > Mac
> > > > > > Mini.
> > > > > > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper
> > > > > permissions
> > > > > > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous
> > build
> > > > can
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > wheel
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted
> to
> > > have
> > > > > > > > supported.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But, I don't know.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Here's info about the installer-related code that is being audited for
donation:
http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI
Gj
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Got it, thank you.
>
> Carl
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.
> >
> > What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the
> code
> > to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and
> truly
> > does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In
> this
> > particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not be
> > releasing the code that is used to build the installers, i.e., these are
> > build/compile-time relevant only, so the question of distribution of
> these
> > files is irrelevant.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > OK thank you.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the
> original
> > > authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write
> the
> > > new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney. :)
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems
> with
> > > > parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread
> > > > updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as
> > > possible
> > > > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
> > > > knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this thread)
> > > would
> > > > look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on
> do
> > > the
> > > > job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up expertise
> in
> > > > this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to
> support
> > > and
> > > > answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge the
> > > > better.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was
> > not
> > > > > available due to IP and/or license issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you Gj.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <
> > willhartung@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most
> > certainly
> > > > > > evidence
> > > > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of
> my
> > > > base
> > > > > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it?
> > The
> > > > > actual
> > > > > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the
> > > > nb.org
> > > > > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to
> NetBeans
> > > > > hudson
> > > > > > > support, not the build.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's a good point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including
> DMG
> > > > > > installers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related
> scripts
> > > and
> > > > > so
> > > > > > on are found:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since
> we
> > > have
> > > > > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'
> > > cluster,
> > > > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg
> repo
> > > > into
> > > > > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd
> > donation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had
> > the
> > > > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the
> > donation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above
> > folder
> > > --
> > > > > it
> > > > > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows,
> Linux,
> > > and
> > > > > > Mac.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gj
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a
> > Mac
> > > > > Mini.
> > > > > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper
> > > > permissions
> > > > > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous
> build
> > > can
> > > > be
> > > > > > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of
> > the
> > > > > wheel
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to
> > have
> > > > > > > supported.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But, I don't know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl J. Mosca
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Got it, thank you.
Carl
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.
>
> What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the code
> to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and truly
> does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In this
> particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not be
> releasing the code that is used to build the installers, i.e., these are
> build/compile-time relevant only, so the question of distribution of these
> files is irrelevant.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > OK thank you.
> >
> > My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the original
> > authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write the
> > new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney. :)
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems with
> > > parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread
> > > updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as
> > possible
> > > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
> > > knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this thread)
> > would
> > > look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on do
> > the
> > > job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up expertise in
> > > this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to support
> > and
> > > answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge the
> > > better.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was
> not
> > > > available due to IP and/or license issues.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you Gj.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <
> willhartung@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most
> certainly
> > > > > evidence
> > > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my
> > > base
> > > > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it?
> The
> > > > actual
> > > > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with
> > the
> > > > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the
> > > nb.org
> > > > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans
> > > > hudson
> > > > > > support, not the build.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's a good point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
> > > > > installers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts
> > and
> > > > so
> > > > > on are found:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> > > > >
> > > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we
> > have
> > > > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'
> > cluster,
> > > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo
> > > into
> > > > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd
> donation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had
> the
> > > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the
> donation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above
> folder
> > --
> > > > it
> > > > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux,
> > and
> > > > > Mac.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a
> Mac
> > > > Mini.
> > > > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper
> > > permissions
> > > > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build
> > can
> > > be
> > > > > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of
> the
> > > > wheel
> > > > > if
> > > > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to
> have
> > > > > > supported.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, I don't know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source.
What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the code
to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and truly
does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In this
particular case, the 2nd part of not applicable -- Apache will not be
releasing the code that is used to build the installers, i.e., these are
build/compile-time relevant only, so the question of distribution of these
files is irrelevant.
Thanks,
Gj
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK thank you.
>
> My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the original
> authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write the
> new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney. :)
>
> Carl
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems with
> > parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread
> > updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as
> possible
> > of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
> > knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this thread)
> would
> > look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on do
> the
> > job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up expertise in
> > this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to support
> and
> > answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge the
> > better.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was not
> > > available due to IP and/or license issues.
> > >
> > > Thank you Gj.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <willhartung@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly
> > > > evidence
> > > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my
> > base
> > > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The
> > > actual
> > > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with
> the
> > > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the
> > nb.org
> > > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans
> > > hudson
> > > > > support, not the build.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's a good point.
> > > >
> > > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
> > > > installers.
> > > >
> > > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts
> and
> > > so
> > > > on are found:
> > > >
> > > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> > > >
> > > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we
> have
> > > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php'
> cluster,
> > > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> > > >
> > > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo
> > into
> > > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd donation.
> > > >
> > > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had the
> > > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the donation.
> > > >
> > > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above folder
> --
> > > it
> > > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux,
> and
> > > > Mac.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac
> > > Mini.
> > > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper
> > permissions
> > > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build
> can
> > be
> > > > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the
> > > wheel
> > > > if
> > > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> > > > > supported.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, I don't know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl J. Mosca
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
OK thank you.
My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the original
authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write the
new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney. :)
Carl
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems with
> parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread
> updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as possible
> of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
> knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this thread) would
> look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on do the
> job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up expertise in
> this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to support and
> answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge the
> better.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was not
> > available due to IP and/or license issues.
> >
> > Thank you Gj.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly
> > > evidence
> > > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my
> base
> > > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The
> > actual
> > > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
> > > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the
> nb.org
> > > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans
> > hudson
> > > > support, not the build.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That's a good point.
> > >
> > > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
> > > installers.
> > >
> > > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts and
> > so
> > > on are found:
> > >
> > > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> > >
> > > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we have
> > > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php' cluster,
> > > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> > >
> > > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo
> into
> > > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd donation.
> > >
> > > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had the
> > > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the donation.
> > >
> > > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above folder --
> > it
> > > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux, and
> > > Mac.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac
> > Mini.
> > > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper
> permissions
> > > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can
> be
> > > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > > >
> > > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the
> > wheel
> > > if
> > > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> > > > supported.
> > > >
> > > > But, I don't know.
> > > >
> > > > Regards.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems with
parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread
updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as possible
of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those
knowledgeable in this area (there appear to be a lot, in this thread) would
look at that repo and see whether those scripts and files and so on do the
job and are what's needed, we're going to need to build up expertise in
this area together, sure, Oracle engineers will be available to support and
answer questions and so on, but the more we spread the knowledge the better.
Gj
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was not
> available due to IP and/or license issues.
>
> Thank you Gj.
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly
> > evidence
> > > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base
> > > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The
> actual
> > > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
> > > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the nb.org
> > > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans
> hudson
> > > support, not the build.
> > >
> >
> >
> > That's a good point.
> >
> > Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
> > installers.
> >
> > Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts and
> so
> > on are found:
> >
> > http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
> >
> > These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we have
> > been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php' cluster,
> > etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
> >
> > So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo into
> > the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd donation.
> >
> > Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had the
> > solution all along and simply not yet included them in the donation.
> >
> > Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above folder --
> it
> > includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux, and
> > Mac.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac
> Mini.
> > > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper permissions
> > > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can be
> > > ported to the new infrastructure.
> > >
> > > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the
> wheel
> > if
> > > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> > > supported.
> > >
> > > But, I don't know.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was not
available due to IP and/or license issues.
Thank you Gj.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly
> evidence
> > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base
> > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The actual
> > build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
> > Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the nb.org
> > page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans hudson
> > support, not the build.
> >
>
>
> That's a good point.
>
> Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
> installers.
>
> Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts and so
> on are found:
>
> http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
>
> These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we have
> been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php' cluster,
> etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
>
> So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo into
> the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd donation.
>
> Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had the
> solution all along and simply not yet included them in the donation.
>
> Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above folder -- it
> includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux, and
> Mac.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac Mini.
> > If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper permissions
> > acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can be
> > ported to the new infrastructure.
> >
> > Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the wheel
> if
> > it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> > supported.
> >
> > But, I don't know.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly evidence
> of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base
> puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The actual
> build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
> Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the nb.org
> page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans hudson
> support, not the build.
>
That's a good point.
Installers were always created for NetBeans releases, including DMG
installers.
Looking in the hg repo at Oracle, this is where the related scripts and so
on are found:
http://hg.netbeans.org/releases/file/tip/installer
These have not yet been included in the donation process, since we have
been focusing on clusters (e.g., the 'java' cluster, the 'php' cluster,
etc) and this 'installer' folder falls outside the clusters.
So, we will work on including the installer folder from the hg repo into
the donation that we're currently working on, i.e., the 3rd donation.
Apologies for not thinking about this earlier -- i.e., we've had the
solution all along and simply not yet included them in the donation.
Can those knowledgeable in this area take a look at the above folder -- it
includes everything needed AFAIK for installers for Windows, Linux, and Mac.
Thanks,
Gj
>
> Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac Mini.
> If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper permissions
> acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can be
> ported to the new infrastructure.
>
> Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the wheel if
> it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
> supported.
>
> But, I don't know.
>
> Regards.
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Excellent. So, where is your DMG solution, please?
>
> Can you stop sending e-mails for the moment and create the solution that
> you're missing? Yes, maybe you don't know how to do that, though maybe you
> can invest the time that you would have spent in replying to this in
> learning how to do what it is that you believe should be done?
>
Apparently you're only allowed to contribute to this list if you have a
pull request pending.
That's fine.
But, before I go, it's was not even clear there was consensus on what to
do, what was desired, and was positing potential alternatives. For all I
know, folks would rather have a MacPorts or Homebrew solution and tell the
MacOs users "Let them eat bash scripts!".
That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly evidence
of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base
puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The actual
build scripts I can't find, I don't know if they are on/lost with the
Hudson server (I can't seem to connect to the one linked at the nb.org
page). All of the hudson.* directories seem to relate to NetBeans hudson
support, not the build.
Finally, the Apache infrastructure has a build bot running on a Mac Mini.
If the original build scripts can be found, and the proper permissions
acquired on the Mac Build bot, then, ideally, the previous build can be
ported to the new infrastructure.
Ideally, this shouldn't have to be a clean room reinvention of the wheel if
it were deigned to be something that the group still wanted to have
supported.
But, I don't know.
Regards.
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I have modified the creation of the pkg file in the fork I created here:
https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans
Checkout the package-macos branch, run "ant package-macos"
The "NetBeans 9.pkg" file should be in the nbbuild/MacOS directory if the
build succeeds.
Previously, I was using the dmg format (without putting a pkg in the dmg as
I believe was done in the 8.2 release).
I thank Tim for his feedback, along with all the other opinions.
I don't think this is close to being "done" (I like Tim's idea of making a
pkg less platform specific) and I think the generation of the package needs
to attention (variables, generation of files, locations come to mind).
But I would appreciate feedback as time and interest permits.
This has been, at least for me, a positive conversation and a nice way to
get a bit more familiar with what goes into making NetBeans my favorite
Java IDE (for some years).
Carl
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:13 PM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the spirit of sharing various macOS install methods, I give you my
> “GetNetBeans” script:
>
> https://gist.github.com/swpalmer/1390e7bdb9054f327bdc7d8fb8692c51 <
> https://gist.github.com/swpalmer/1390e7bdb9054f327bdc7d8fb8692c51>
>
>
> Run it on macOS and magically you will have a NetBeans 9.0 application
> bundle.
>
> It should download from the recommended mirror, create the application
> bundle, put the original .zip in the trash and open a Finder window so you
> can drag the app bundle where you wish.
>
> Only tested on my system, and it has no error checking whatsoever.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
> > On Aug 14, 2018, at 9:20 PM, David Green <dg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 14 Aug 2018, at 17:40, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >
> >> where is your DMG solution?
> >
> > Hi. As another one watching from the sidelines, I offer a piece of the
> puzzle (or a bandaid)...
> >
> > https://github.com/dgreen/nb9dmg
> >
> > which will make a DMG if you already have a
> /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app install (like is done by Carlos
> Mosca's netbeans-mac-os tool on github).
> >
> > Note that the DMG will provide Drag & Drop into /Applications/NetBeans
> 9.app not /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app
> >
> > There is also a dependency (via dmgbuild of the MacOS program hdiutil).
> >
> > It works for me but that is very limited testing.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave Green
>
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
In the spirit of sharing various macOS install methods, I give you my “GetNetBeans” script:
https://gist.github.com/swpalmer/1390e7bdb9054f327bdc7d8fb8692c51 <https://gist.github.com/swpalmer/1390e7bdb9054f327bdc7d8fb8692c51>
Run it on macOS and magically you will have a NetBeans 9.0 application bundle.
It should download from the recommended mirror, create the application bundle, put the original .zip in the trash and open a Finder window so you can drag the app bundle where you wish.
Only tested on my system, and it has no error checking whatsoever.
Regards,
Scott
> On Aug 14, 2018, at 9:20 PM, David Green <dg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 14 Aug 2018, at 17:40, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>> where is your DMG solution?
>
> Hi. As another one watching from the sidelines, I offer a piece of the puzzle (or a bandaid)...
>
> https://github.com/dgreen/nb9dmg
>
> which will make a DMG if you already have a /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app install (like is done by Carlos Mosca's netbeans-mac-os tool on github).
>
> Note that the DMG will provide Drag & Drop into /Applications/NetBeans 9.app not /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app
>
> There is also a dependency (via dmgbuild of the MacOS program hdiutil).
>
> It works for me but that is very limited testing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Green
Re: Installers
Posted by David Green <dg...@gmail.com>.
On 14 Aug 2018, at 17:40, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> where is your DMG solution?
Hi. As another one watching from the sidelines, I offer a piece of the
puzzle (or a bandaid)...
https://github.com/dgreen/nb9dmg
which will make a DMG if you already have a
/Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app install (like is done by Carlos
Mosca's netbeans-mac-os tool on github).
Note that the DMG will provide Drag & Drop into /Applications/NetBeans
9.app not /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans 9.app
There is also a dependency (via dmgbuild of the MacOS program hdiutil).
It works for me but that is very limited testing.
Regards,
Dave Green
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Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the
> > ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache
> NetBeans:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gdC7BBtbs
> >
>
> Thanks for these.
>
> As a Mac user, and, especially compared to using a DMG or a DMG with an
> installer, these techniques are both, simply, terrible.
>
> Functional, they "get it done", but terrible.
>
>
Excellent. So, where is your DMG solution, please?
Can you stop sending e-mails for the moment and create the solution that
you're missing? Yes, maybe you don't know how to do that, though maybe you
can invest the time that you would have spent in replying to this in
learning how to do what it is that you believe should be done?
Thanks,
Gj
> The second example with the Mac OS bundle is a nice "how to", but that
> shouldn't be a "sanctioned" mechanism for random Mac users to download and
> install NetBeans.
>
> Having a shell based launcher that leaves a terminal window sitting around
> with logs spamming, isn't really an ideal solution.
>
> This would be much less of a big deal if NetBeans didn't offer a Mac
> install experience before, with the DMG and the Installer.
>
> A DMG with a Drag and Drop bundle would be a fine halfway step which should
> be doable on a non-mac system (i.e. a linux system).
>
> If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
> can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the
> ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gdC7BBtbs
>
Thanks for these.
As a Mac user, and, especially compared to using a DMG or a DMG with an
installer, these techniques are both, simply, terrible.
Functional, they "get it done", but terrible.
The second example with the Mac OS bundle is a nice "how to", but that
shouldn't be a "sanctioned" mechanism for random Mac users to download and
install NetBeans.
Having a shell based launcher that leaves a terminal window sitting around
with logs spamming, isn't really an ideal solution.
This would be much less of a big deal if NetBeans didn't offer a Mac
install experience before, with the DMG and the Installer.
A DMG with a Drag and Drop bundle would be a fine halfway step which should
be doable on a non-mac system (i.e. a linux system).
If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we
can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over.
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the
ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gdC7BBtbs
Each takes less than 5 minutes, comments welcome.
Gj
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 22:03, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac
> > Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the
> > Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big
> > arrow, essentially telling you to drag the App in to the Applications
> > folder.
> >
> > That's a "mac install". That's a "friendly" mac install. Digging stuff
> out
> > of zip files is not as "mac friendly".
> >
> > Tim's point of moving to an Installer to essentially "force" folks to
> > actually drag the app off of the DMG is interesting, and, honestly, not
> > surprising.
>
> I'm glad you put "friendly" in quotation marks there! ;-) I
> understand technically what's going on. I'm trying to work out why
> anyone thinks that's user-friendly. By the time I read the need for
> Tim's workaround there my palm is getting seriously close to my face.
> Did you read the article I linked to earlier? I found that when
> deciding which approach to use for my own app bundle. And, while it
> might be less common, shipping app bundles in a zip is not completely
> unknown and you'll find quite a few people advocating for it. Still,
> the UI studies quoted from Firefox aside, they ship it in a DMG!
>
> i asked mainly because a zipped app bundle seems to be the easiest
> option to create here, without the can-be-run-from-dmg downside. I'm
> definitely happy sticking with zip for my own usage right now!
> However, not going to say any more on this as it's not my main
> platform. I would, mind you, love to ditch the installers on every
> platform!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 22:03, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac
> Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the
> Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big
> arrow, essentially telling you to drag the App in to the Applications
> folder.
>
> That's a "mac install". That's a "friendly" mac install. Digging stuff out
> of zip files is not as "mac friendly".
>
> Tim's point of moving to an Installer to essentially "force" folks to
> actually drag the app off of the DMG is interesting, and, honestly, not
> surprising.
I'm glad you put "friendly" in quotation marks there! ;-) I
understand technically what's going on. I'm trying to work out why
anyone thinks that's user-friendly. By the time I read the need for
Tim's workaround there my palm is getting seriously close to my face.
Did you read the article I linked to earlier? I found that when
deciding which approach to use for my own app bundle. And, while it
might be less common, shipping app bundles in a zip is not completely
unknown and you'll find quite a few people advocating for it. Still,
the UI studies quoted from Firefox aside, they ship it in a DMG!
i asked mainly because a zipped app bundle seems to be the easiest
option to create here, without the can-be-run-from-dmg downside. I'm
definitely happy sticking with zip for my own usage right now!
However, not going to say any more on this as it's not my main
platform. I would, mind you, love to ditch the installers on every
platform!
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: Installers
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac
Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the
Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big
arrow, essentially telling you to drag the App in to the Applications
folder.
That's a "mac install". That's a "friendly" mac install. Digging stuff out
of zip files is not as "mac friendly".
Tim's point of moving to an Installer to essentially "force" folks to
actually drag the app off of the DMG is interesting, and, honestly, not
surprising.
Because I know I've launched apps off of the DMG. Sometimes, I have just
left them there. And I can certainly appreciate how it's a problem for
something like NetBeans. NetBeans is almost 6000 files (!!), that's a lot
of random seeking against a compressed stream in contrast to maybe a linked
executable loading it a swarm of shared libraries from the OS. No wonder
it's slow.
The Installer never bothered me, I like the current installer. My only
concern was that it needed admin rights. Not that I don't trust it, I just
don't like apps that need admin rights - mostly because it acclimates users
to just hit "OK" for every program install, which just leads to trouble.
Re: Installers
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:42, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes,
> > but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as
> > unfriendly for macOS users?
>
> Power users aside, it’s unfriendly for users of any OS. My test team team are a good example of people that want a one click setup, my devs just want to develop without needing to fiddle with a tool chain.
Are we talking about the same thing here!? Double-click netbeans.zip
to extract, double-click netbeans.app to run.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 01:59, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of
>> telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users".
>>
>
> I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes,
> but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as
> unfriendly for macOS users?
Power users aside, it’s unfriendly for users of any OS. My test team team are a good example of people that want a one click setup, my devs just want to develop without needing to fiddle with a tool chain. And; we work with hadoop, we know pain.
> I'm inclined towards the views expressed
> in https://daringfireball.net/2009/09/how_should_mac_apps_be_distributed
> Maybe I'm biased by my love of RiscOS, but isn't the whole point of a
> self-contained application bundle that you just drag it where you want
> it? I do understand why the current zip download isn't optimal for
> any OS yet.
>
>
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 06:18, Ryan Cuprak <rc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> With the Mac installer, is the plan to include OpenJDK so that the IDE runs without any additional setup work?
>
> I think this would require a change in Apache policy towards
> distribution of system dependencies? Something I really hope we see
> in a world moving away from centralized JDKs!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 01:59, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of
> telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users".
>
I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes,
but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as
unfriendly for macOS users? I'm inclined towards the views expressed
in https://daringfireball.net/2009/09/how_should_mac_apps_be_distributed
Maybe I'm biased by my love of RiscOS, but isn't the whole point of a
self-contained application bundle that you just drag it where you want
it? I do understand why the current zip download isn't optimal for
any OS yet.
On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 06:18, Ryan Cuprak <rc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With the Mac installer, is the plan to include OpenJDK so that the IDE runs without any additional setup work?
I think this would require a change in Apache policy towards
distribution of system dependencies? Something I really hope we see
in a world moving away from centralized JDKs!
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: Installers
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:27 PM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is
> to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the
> advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases
> Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting in
> your Downloads folder.
That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of
telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users".
Back in 2004-5, I wrote the first Ant-based stuff to generate a PKG for
NetBeans - it wasn't too hard. At the time I dug a little bit into making
that build truly cross platform. Think I wrote a blog about it on java.net
at the time. You needed to have pax to build the archive - it's actually
part of the posix standard and generates tar-compatible archives (after
much digging I figured out that tar would not generate a valid PKG and the
only difference in the archives was the inclusion of an entry for./ -
strange but true). The missing link was apple's hdiutil utility for
creating disk images - I remember digging around in OpenDarwin a bit but I
don't remember if I didn't find it or just wasn't ambitious enough to build
it for Linux. At any rate, that problem may have been solved by now. So it
would be worth looking into.
I don't think PKG files are particularly fancy or difficult to build - the
plist format is well documented, and after that its just laying out the
files and bundling them up - fussy, but once it works it works.
So I think with a little work we might be able to do portable PKG builds.
It sounds like someone has been working a bit on PKG generation? If so I
could take a look and see what I remember from days of yore.
-Tim
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
> > On Aug 12, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with
> > .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of
> > "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
> >
> > The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running it
> > directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's not
> > that unusual.
> >
> > Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
> > compression used for .dmg images.
> >
> > I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
> >> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require
> admin
> >> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be
> able
> >> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
> >> well
> >>> but that's a policy.
> >>>
> >>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
> >>>
> >>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
> >>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
> >> order
> >>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem
> is
> >>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
> >>>
> >>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
> >> need
> >>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> >> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> >>>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows
> platform
> >> is
> >>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
> >> explain,
> >>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
> >>>>
> >>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> >>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to
> install.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Carl J. Mosca
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> > http://timboudreau.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 06:27, Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form.
As mentioned the issue with this is it could not be installed by the user globally, think of a university installing for all users. Someone would need to go into the bin folder and drag a shortcut out.
> That has the advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting in your Downloads folder.
You don’t need macOS, you just need a tool like xar and a manifest to build the extensible archive.
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
>> On Aug 12, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with
>> .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of
>> "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
>>
>> The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running it
>> directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's not
>> that unusual.
>>
>> Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
>> compression used for .dmg images.
>>
>> I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
>>
>> -Tim
>>
>> Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
>>> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin
>>> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able
>>> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
>>> well
>>>> but that's a policy.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
>>>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
>>> order
>>>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
>>>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
>>> need
>>>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
>>> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform
>>> is
>>>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
>>> explain,
>>>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>>>
>>>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carl J. Mosca
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> http://timboudreau.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting in your Downloads folder.
Regards,
Scott
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with
> .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of
> "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
>
> The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running it
> directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's not
> that unusual.
>
> Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
> compression used for .dmg images.
>
> I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
>
> -Tim
>
> Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
>> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin
>> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able
>> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
>> well
>>> but that's a policy.
>>>
>>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>>
>>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
>>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
>> order
>>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
>>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>>
>>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
>> need
>>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
>> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform
>> is
>>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
>> explain,
>>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>>
>>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl J. Mosca
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> http://timboudreau.com
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
How did you install NetBeans 8.x?
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:19 AM Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with
> .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of
> "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
>
> The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running it
> directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's not
> that unusual.
>
> Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
> compression used for .dmg images.
>
> I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
>
> -Tim
>
> Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
> > application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin
> > privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be
> able
> > to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > > On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
> > well
> > > but that's a policy.
> > >
> > > As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
> > >
> > > Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
> > > that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
> > order
> > > to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem
> is
> > > requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
> > >
> > > One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
> > need
> > > such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> > kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> > >>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows
> platform
> > is
> > >>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
> > explain,
> > >> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
> > >>
> > >> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> > >> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to
> install.
> > >>
> > >> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl J. Mosca
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> http://timboudreau.com
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with
.pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of
"NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX.
The reason? A LOT of users never unpacked the .app - they were running it
directly from the mounted, compressed .dmg image. It turns out that's not
that unusual.
Random access Java classloading does not play nicely AT ALL with the
compression used for .dmg images.
I strongly recommend not repeating that mistake.
-Tim
Only Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin
> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able
> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>
> Scott
>
> > On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
> well
> > but that's a policy.
> >
> > As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
> >
> > Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
> > that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
> order
> > to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
> > requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
> >
> > One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
> need
> > such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform
> is
> >>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> >>>
> >>
> >> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
> explain,
> >> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
> >>
> >> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> >> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
> >>
> >> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I have added a couple of ant tasks to the ant build. They are build-macos
and package-macos.
The changes are in a fork here:
https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans
It's been a while since I did any work work ant. Feedback is welcome.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 1:44 AM Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the
> application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin
> privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able
> to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>
> Scott
>
> > On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as
> well
> > but that's a policy.
> >
> > As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
> >
> > Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
> > that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in
> order
> > to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
> > requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
> >
> > One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not
> need
> > such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform
> is
> >>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> >>>
> >>
> >> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could
> explain,
> >> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
> >>
> >> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> >> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
> >>
> >> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 06:32, Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is true. If there is still a need for that, then a .pkg is required. Is it still the case though?
Given that JEE support is in the next drop and glassfish/tomcat are a part of the bundle then i can only assume so.
That's not to say that the IDE could say “if you need this then go download that elsewhere and configure manually”, however; one of NetBeans IDE’s advantages has always been a single install and you have everything.
Another option would be to only provide a single servlet/JEE container OOTB and not allow user customisation. Given licensing that would mean tomcat is fine as it’s apache licensed, don’t know what will need to be done to bundle glassfish though.
> Scott
>
>> On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:14 PM, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not quite. Remember the 8.2 installer did install Glassfish and tomcat for JEE versions and above. When it did this the servlet container was customised to match the users preferences.
>>
>>> On 11 Aug 2018, at 15:44, Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well
>>>> but that's a policy.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
>>>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order
>>>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
>>>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not need
>>>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
>>>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>>>
>>>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
Yes, that is true. If there is still a need for that, then a .pkg is required. Is it still the case though?
Scott
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:14 PM, Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not quite. Remember the 8.2 installer did install Glassfish and tomcat for JEE versions and above. When it did this the servlet container was customised to match the users preferences.
>
>> On 11 Aug 2018, at 15:44, Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well
>>> but that's a policy.
>>>
>>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>>
>>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
>>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order
>>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
>>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>>
>>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not need
>>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
>>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>>
>>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
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Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
Not quite. Remember the 8.2 installer did install Glassfish and tomcat for JEE versions and above. When it did this the servlet container was customised to match the users preferences.
> On 11 Aug 2018, at 15:44, Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
>
> Scott
>
>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well
>> but that's a policy.
>>
>> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>>
>> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
>> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order
>> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
>> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>>
>> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not need
>> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is
>>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
>>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>>
>>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>>
>>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl J. Mosca
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
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> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able to drag the app bundle wherever they want.
Scott
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well
> but that's a policy.
>
> As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
>
> Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
> that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order
> to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
> requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
>
> One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not need
> such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
>
> Carl
>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is
>>> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>>>
>>
>> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
>> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>>
>> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
>> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>>
>> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>>
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well
but that's a policy.
As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD.
Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar
that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order
to complete the installation process. That is to say, the filesystem is
requiring the elevated access which in my opinion is a good thing.
One could/should be able to install in his/her home directory and not need
such access and I have seen apps take that approach as well.
Carl
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:57 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is
> > unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
> >
>
> For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
> the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
>
> Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
> bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
>
> Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>
wrote:
> Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is
> unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut.
>
For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain,
the installer for MacOS requires Administration privileges.
Being that it, too, is essentially a "zip file" (it's an application
bundle), I never really understood why it needs admin privs to install.
Maybe it's some Mac specific thing.
RE: Installers
Posted by Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>.
After a bizarre experience with Eclipse's Windows installer, it dumped 350 meg into the user AppData folder in addition to where it was actually installed, I am questioning installers for Windows. I solved my Eclipse problem by just downloading the zipped version. NetBeans does not require any special treatment for Windows. It can be unzipped and a shortcut created. I assume it will no longer ship with Glassfish, a good thing, so its not necessary to deal with the GlassFish installation which is only to unzip it into a folder anyways. When NetBeans starts up it will create whatever folders it needs in the User folder. Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut. What about the Java Packager or is that not usable due to licensing?
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
Sent: August 10, 2018 7:33 AM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Installers
Well first off is MacOS dmg because that's where I code mostly. Secondly I like the idea of both an RPM and a deb for those Linux distros but I get the "yum install" "apt-get" thing to it's just as high a priority for me.
And yes, I know Windows has to be addressed a well but that's my order of interest at this point. On Windows, I would have to look because I don't know what the msi/exe preference is these days.
Carl
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 7:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Which kinds of installers, i.e., for which operating systems, do you
> want to create installers?
>
> Indeed, makes sense to me the idea of them being created during the build.
>
> Gj
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the
> > coordination part of my question.
> >
> > I am assuming that building the installers would, at some point, be
> > part
> of
> > the build process.
> >
> > I believe Jenkins and ant are currently used. Is there any history
> > or preference with solutions to create the installers I should be aware of?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Carl
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > >
> > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > >
> > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
> > > here
> with
> > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to
> > > > help if needed.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Well first off is MacOS dmg because that's where I code mostly. Secondly I
like the idea of both an RPM and a deb for those Linux distros but I get
the "yum install" "apt-get" thing to it's just as high a priority for me.
And yes, I know Windows has to be addressed a well but that's my order of
interest at this point. On Windows, I would have to look because I don't
know what the msi/exe preference is these days.
Carl
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 7:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Which kinds of installers, i.e., for which operating systems, do you want
> to create installers?
>
> Indeed, makes sense to me the idea of them being created during the build.
>
> Gj
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the
> > coordination part of my question.
> >
> > I am assuming that building the installers would, at some point, be part
> of
> > the build process.
> >
> > I believe Jenkins and ant are currently used. Is there any history or
> > preference with solutions to create the installers I should be aware of?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Carl
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > >
> > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > >
> > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> with
> > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > > > needed.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Which kinds of installers, i.e., for which operating systems, do you want
to create installers?
Indeed, makes sense to me the idea of them being created during the build.
Gj
On Friday, August 10, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the
> coordination part of my question.
>
> I am assuming that building the installers would, at some point, be part of
> the build process.
>
> I believe Jenkins and ant are currently used. Is there any history or
> preference with solutions to create the installers I should be aware of?
>
> Thank you,
> Carl
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> >
> > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> >
> > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
> > instructions when you’ve done so.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > > needed.
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the
coordination part of my question.
I am assuming that building the installers would, at some point, be part of
the build process.
I believe Jenkins and ant are currently used. Is there any history or
preference with solutions to create the installers I should be aware of?
Thank you,
Carl
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>
> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>
> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
> instructions when you’ve done so.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > needed.
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Creating Installers for 32 and 64 bit in the UI
Posted by Oliver Rettig <Ol...@orat.de>.
Hi,
for my platform apps I typically use the build-in installer creation for windows and linux
installers. The new situation for me is that I need to create 64bit and 32 bit installers/
applications. This is of course possible easy by changing properties in the ant scripts but it
would be more comfortable to have the switch available in the netbeans UI the same way as
I can switch between creation of installers for windows and linux.
Anybody else interested in this functionality? Any interest in such feature addition? Any idea
how this can be implemented? I think it should be not very difficult to find the place where to
add corresponding code. But it looks a bit hacky the combination of java-code and ant-
Scripts. Shouldnt the java-code automatically recognize some properties and build
automatically some UI? Or is this an overkill?
best regards
Oliver
> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>
> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>
> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
> instructions when you’ve done so.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > needed.
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Thank you Kirk. I am sure Tim is a good guy and ultimately meant no
offense.
I have made code contributions to other projects in the past and I will say
that the on-boarding process varies a bit. :)
Regards,
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:21 AM Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com> wrote:
> Hi Carl,
>
> I’m sorry that you saw Tim as blasting you. I have worked Tim and know him
> very well and I know he does not operate that way. I can see the “advice”
> he was offering as being relevant at the time it was made. It is possible
> that things have changed and the history that Tim is relaying is no longer
> relevant but I can see what he’s saying in terms how people use products. I
> sometimes use products without properly installing it myself.
>
> Kind regards,
> Kirk
>
> > On Aug 12, 2018, at 5:35 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Gj. I will do so.
> >
> > You're always helpful and polite.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:29 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around
> for
> >>> the "great debate of 2004".
> >>>
> >>> If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable,
> why
> >>> was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
> >>>
> >>> I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
> >>> preferred but the compression comment confused me.
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
> >>> location.
> >>>
> >>> The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would
> >> not
> >>> step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for
> >> that...thanks
> >>> all for the warm welcomes. :)
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> :-) You'll always get blasted and thanked in equal measure here. :-)
> >>
> >> I think it's awesome what you've done and maybe you can provide your
> >> solution as a pull request, after creating an issue and then using that
> >> issue number in the commit message, such as in most cases here:
> >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pulls
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> >>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> >>>> installers is something to think about.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gj
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> >>>>> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> >>> package-macos"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> >>>> installer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> >>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
> >> here
> >>>> with
> >>>>>> instructions when you’ve done so.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gj
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to
> >> help
> >>> if
> >>>>>>> needed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Carl J. Mosca
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Carl J. Mosca
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Kirk Pepperdine <ki...@kodewerk.com>.
Hi Carl,
I’m sorry that you saw Tim as blasting you. I have worked Tim and know him very well and I know he does not operate that way. I can see the “advice” he was offering as being relevant at the time it was made. It is possible that things have changed and the history that Tim is relaying is no longer relevant but I can see what he’s saying in terms how people use products. I sometimes use products without properly installing it myself.
Kind regards,
Kirk
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 5:35 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Gj. I will do so.
>
> You're always helpful and polite.
>
> Regards,
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:29 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
>>> the "great debate of 2004".
>>>
>>> If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
>>> was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
>>>
>>> I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
>>> preferred but the compression comment confused me.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
>>> location.
>>>
>>> The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would
>> not
>>> step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for
>> that...thanks
>>> all for the warm welcomes. :)
>>>
>>
>>
>> :-) You'll always get blasted and thanked in equal measure here. :-)
>>
>> I think it's awesome what you've done and maybe you can provide your
>> solution as a pull request, after creating an issue and then using that
>> issue number in the commit message, such as in most cases here:
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pulls
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
>>>> installers is something to think about.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
>>>>> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
>>> package-macos"
>>>>>
>>>>> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
>>>> installer.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>>>>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
>> here
>>>> with
>>>>>> instructions when you’ve done so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to
>> help
>>> if
>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carl J. Mosca
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl J. Mosca
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
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Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Thank you Gj. I will do so.
You're always helpful and polite.
Regards,
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:29 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
> > the "great debate of 2004".
> >
> > If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
> > was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
> >
> > I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
> > preferred but the compression comment confused me.
> >
> > On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
> > location.
> >
> > The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would
> not
> > step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for
> that...thanks
> > all for the warm welcomes. :)
> >
>
>
> :-) You'll always get blasted and thanked in equal measure here. :-)
>
> I think it's awesome what you've done and maybe you can provide your
> solution as a pull request, after creating an issue and then using that
> issue number in the commit message, such as in most cases here:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pulls
>
> Gj
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> > > installers is something to think about.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > > > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > > >
> > > > Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> > package-macos"
> > > >
> > > > This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > > installer.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
> here
> > > with
> > > > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to
> help
> > if
> > > > > > needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
> the "great debate of 2004".
>
> If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
> was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
>
> I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
> preferred but the compression comment confused me.
>
> On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
> location.
>
> The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would not
> step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for that...thanks
> all for the warm welcomes. :)
>
:-) You'll always get blasted and thanked in equal measure here. :-)
I think it's awesome what you've done and maybe you can provide your
solution as a pull request, after creating an issue and then using that
issue number in the commit message, such as in most cases here:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pulls
Gj
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> > installers is something to think about.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > >
> > > Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> package-macos"
> > >
> > > This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > installer.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > > >
> > > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > > >
> > > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> > with
> > > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help
> if
> > > > > needed.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl J. Mosca
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Brett Ryan <br...@gmail.com>.
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 05:29, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 16:23 Carl Mosca, <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:.
>
>> I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out.
>>
>
> Hasn't pack200 just been deprecated!?
>
> Out of interest is there a preference / benefit for mac users to have the
> app bundle in a dmg and not just zipped up? That would still be an
> improvement.
It’s about the standard user experience. Having a dmg the instance comes with a manifest that tells what files go to the /Applications folder and what goes to the ~/Library/Aplication Support folder. The finder (similar to windows explorer) window can be customised richly in the dmg to show the user they should drag the icon to applications, many have a symlink to applications.
From this though the launch process on macOS need to know the executable. All applications while may have many supporting files from the users perspective show as a single icon, this provides support for the doc, commander and shortcuts.
> Also reminds me of giving a test version of an RCP app to a Windows user
> who tried to run it from inside the zip. Tries to start but doesn't get
> very far. Any way for the mac app bundle launcher to know it's running from
> a dmg and behave differently (eg. trigger extraction)?
Maybe, but it’s not practice to do so. I am doubtful this is what was happening though, I certainly don’t remember seeing this. Back in 2004 I really don’t remember us mac users having an nb installer and am pretty sure we were using a zip.
If the dmg is customised to highlight they should copy, that would be enough.
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>>
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Re: Installers
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 16:23 Carl Mosca, <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out.
>
Hasn't pack200 just been deprecated!?
Out of interest is there a preference / benefit for mac users to have the
app bundle in a dmg and not just zipped up? That would still be an
improvement.
Also reminds me of giving a test version of an RCP app to a Windows user
who tried to run it from inside the zip. Tries to start but doesn't get
very far. Any way for the mac app bundle launcher to know it's running from
a dmg and behave differently (eg. trigger extraction)?
Best wishes,
Neil
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Got it, thank you Tim.
I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out.
Regards,
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey there - I wasn't intending to blast anybody, just act as a little
> corner of institutional memory, since there are a lot of people who weren't
> around then and when issues are revisited, it helps to know what was
> learned the last time around. Sorry if the "uh oh" that went off on my head
> led me to phrase things a little bluntly.
>
> DMG images are usually compressed. I have no idea if the algorithm has
> changed and this is a non problem now (certainly machines are faster). Most
> compression algorithms use a fixed block size, and to do random access in a
> compressed archive may mean doing a lot more I/O than the amount of data
> you really want to read. For example, in a .tar.gz file you have to
> decompress from the head of the file all the way to the end of what you
> want to read (imagine doing that many times in a row to read multiple class
> files). Zip format is a little better since you have an index at the tail
> of the file - but people usually make uncompressed JAR files for execution
> because it still makes classloading performance unpredictable. Put an
> archive in another archive and you multiply the unpredictability.
>
> PKG files don't have that sort of problem, since you can get the install
> image unpacked optimally on the user's disk, guaranteeing the best
> performance possible on their hardware.
>
> I've even known some projects to optimize the order class files are
> packaged into jars to match load order.
>
> The bottom line is that anything that makes people say "NetBeans is slow"
> is bad for the project.
>
> BTW, as a semi related tip: some years ago we reduced the download size of
> the ide by some insanely large factor by shipping jars compressed with
> pack200 and having the installer uncompress them.
>
> -Tim
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:02 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
> > the "great debate of 2004".
> >
> > If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
> > was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
> >
> > I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
> > preferred but the compression comment confused me.
> >
> > On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
> > location.
> >
> > The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would
> not
> > step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for
> that...thanks
> > all for the warm welcomes. :)
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> > > installers is something to think about.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > > > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > > >
> > > > Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> > package-macos"
> > > >
> > > > This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > > installer.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
> here
> > > with
> > > > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to
> help
> > if
> > > > > > needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carl J. Mosca
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
> --
> http://timboudreau.com
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
Hey there - I wasn't intending to blast anybody, just act as a little
corner of institutional memory, since there are a lot of people who weren't
around then and when issues are revisited, it helps to know what was
learned the last time around. Sorry if the "uh oh" that went off on my head
led me to phrase things a little bluntly.
DMG images are usually compressed. I have no idea if the algorithm has
changed and this is a non problem now (certainly machines are faster). Most
compression algorithms use a fixed block size, and to do random access in a
compressed archive may mean doing a lot more I/O than the amount of data
you really want to read. For example, in a .tar.gz file you have to
decompress from the head of the file all the way to the end of what you
want to read (imagine doing that many times in a row to read multiple class
files). Zip format is a little better since you have an index at the tail
of the file - but people usually make uncompressed JAR files for execution
because it still makes classloading performance unpredictable. Put an
archive in another archive and you multiply the unpredictability.
PKG files don't have that sort of problem, since you can get the install
image unpacked optimally on the user's disk, guaranteeing the best
performance possible on their hardware.
I've even known some projects to optimize the order class files are
packaged into jars to match load order.
The bottom line is that anything that makes people say "NetBeans is slow"
is bad for the project.
BTW, as a semi related tip: some years ago we reduced the download size of
the ide by some insanely large factor by shipping jars compressed with
pack200 and having the installer uncompress them.
-Tim
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:02 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
> the "great debate of 2004".
>
> If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
> was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
>
> I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
> preferred but the compression comment confused me.
>
> On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
> location.
>
> The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would not
> step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for that...thanks
> all for the warm welcomes. :)
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> > installers is something to think about.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > >
> > > Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> package-macos"
> > >
> > > This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > installer.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > > >
> > > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > > >
> > > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> > with
> > > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help
> if
> > > > > needed.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carl J. Mosca
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for
the "great debate of 2004".
If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why
was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not?
I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now does) is
preferred but the compression comment confused me.
On the other hand, there was another comment about the installation
location.
The reason I asked in advance of creating anything, was so that I would not
step on any toes or get blasted after the fact. So much for that...thanks
all for the warm welcomes. :)
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
> installers is something to think about.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> >
> > Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
> >
> > This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> installer.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > >
> > > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > >
> > > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> with
> > > instructions when you’ve done so.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > > > needed.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac
installers is something to think about.
Gj
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
>
> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
>
> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package installer.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> >
> > I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> >
> > Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
> > instructions when you’ve done so.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > > needed.
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Gj,
Yes, I agree. I have read the instructions and I don't see anything that's
unclear about the pull request. I don't think a YouTube clip is necessary
but I know if you did one it would be done well. :)
I was mainly thinking about style and project organization. More of if the
code is to be accepted, what might get it more inline with what's expected.
I have looked at the project some but not enough to say it was correct to
create a "macos" directory for example. I have created the JIRA ticket but
I will poke around a bit more as time permits before I submit the pull
request.
I think this particular enhancement, if one can call it that, is probably a
good way for me to learn a bit about the overall organization.
Regards,
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 10:32 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I can make a YouTube clip to explain how to provide pull requests to Apache
> NetBeans, however it wouldn’t be different to doing a pull request for any
> other project via Git.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sunday, August 12, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Sebastian. I appreciate the feedback.
> >
> > I imagine someone can provide a few pointers on where I located the
> > Info.plist file, my use (and lack of) use of properties, and the final
> > location of the pkg file.
> >
> > Hopefully I will learn about the pull request process.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:21 AM bastikempken@gmail.com <
> > bastikempken@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I've tried it on my Mac and it works very well, i would appreciate if
> > > your work will be merged. Its very useful for further releases :)
> > >
> > > Sebastian
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 12.08.18 um 12:07 schrieb Carl Mosca:
> > > > I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should
> > > > be nbbuild/MacOS
> > > > after the build completes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > > >> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > > >>
> > > >> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> > package-macos"
> > > >>
> > > >> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > > installer.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > >> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back
> here
> > > with
> > > >>> instructions when you’ve done so.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Gj
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help
> > if
> > > >>>> needed.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Carl J. Mosca
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Carl J. Mosca
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
I can make a YouTube clip to explain how to provide pull requests to Apache
NetBeans, however it wouldn’t be different to doing a pull request for any
other project via Git.
Gj
On Sunday, August 12, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Sebastian. I appreciate the feedback.
>
> I imagine someone can provide a few pointers on where I located the
> Info.plist file, my use (and lack of) use of properties, and the final
> location of the pkg file.
>
> Hopefully I will learn about the pull request process.
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:21 AM bastikempken@gmail.com <
> bastikempken@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've tried it on my Mac and it works very well, i would appreciate if
> > your work will be merged. Its very useful for further releases :)
> >
> > Sebastian
> >
> >
> > Am 12.08.18 um 12:07 schrieb Carl Mosca:
> > > I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should
> > > be nbbuild/MacOS
> > > after the build completes.
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> > >> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> > >>
> > >> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant
> package-macos"
> > >>
> > >> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> > installer.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > >> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> > >>>
> > >>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> > >>>
> > >>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> > with
> > >>> instructions when you’ve done so.
> > >>>
> > >>> Gj
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help
> if
> > >>>> needed.
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Carl J. Mosca
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
Thank you Sebastian. I appreciate the feedback.
I imagine someone can provide a few pointers on where I located the
Info.plist file, my use (and lack of) use of properties, and the final
location of the pkg file.
Hopefully I will learn about the pull request process.
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:21 AM bastikempken@gmail.com <
bastikempken@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've tried it on my Mac and it works very well, i would appreciate if
> your work will be merged. Its very useful for further releases :)
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> Am 12.08.18 um 12:07 schrieb Carl Mosca:
> > I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should
> > be nbbuild/MacOS
> > after the build completes.
> >
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> >> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
> >>
> >> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
> >>
> >> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package
> installer.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> >> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
> >>>
> >>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
> >>>
> >>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here
> with
> >>> instructions when you’ve done so.
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> >>>> needed.
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carl J. Mosca
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by "bastikempken@gmail.com" <ba...@gmail.com>.
I've tried it on my Mac and it works very well, i would appreciate if
your work will be merged. Its very useful for further releases :)
Sebastian
Am 12.08.18 um 12:07 schrieb Carl Mosca:
> I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should
> be nbbuild/MacOS
> after the build completes.
>
>
> Carl
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
>> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
>>
>> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
>>
>> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package installer.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>>>
>>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>>>
>>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
>>> instructions when you’ve done so.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl J. Mosca
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should
be nbbuild/MacOS
after the build completes.
Carl
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
> https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
>
> Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
>
> This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package installer.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>>
>> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>>
>> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
>> instructions when you’ve done so.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
>> > needed.
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> Carl J. Mosca
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork:
https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac.
Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos"
This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package installer.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:36 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
>
> I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
>
> Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
> instructions when you’ve done so.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> > needed.
> >
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
Re: Installers
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful!
I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far.
Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with
instructions when you’ve done so.
Gj
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone is working on these. I would like to help if
> needed.
>