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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> on 2003/08/04 15:41:24 UTC
[GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
CFMP - don't you *love* new acronyms?
I have a theory that music playing requires a similar kind of brain
than computer programming - lots of chaos mixed with some amount of
math are required for both ;-)
After talking with the Belgian wing of the GetTogether team, it sounds
like a jam session or some other forms of live music might be possible
at the GetTogether 2003. Just turn off these silly PowerPoint sound
effects so that the Cocoon Live Groove Academy can make some noise in
between slides ;-)
Equipment availability is unsure yet but looks possible, so that even
the ones among us who play big heavy loud instruments would be able to
perform.
In order to find out what's possible, could those interested reply to
this message, indicating what instrument(s) you play, what styles and
how comfortable your are about playing unrehearsed with people that you
didn't know five minutes ago.
This will allow the GetTogether team to decide what to do when.
Ciao,
Bertrand
Re: MIDI block (was: Another music proposal)
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Mark,
Great to see you're ready to donate the midi block. I suggest you submit your patch to
Bugzilla (http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/). Then all committers will see it, and
hopefully one will pick it up and commit it.
You can submit as an archive all of your new files, and also a patch file for all files
that have changed.
Regards, Upayavira
On 6 Aug 2003 at 6:03, Mark Leicester wrote:
> On 4/08/2003 21:03, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@codeconsult.ch>
> wrote:
>
> > To me most or all recognizable signature tunes usually become boring
> > once you hear them repeatedly.
> Quite right. Actually "infuriating" might be even more accurate.
>
> > Are you planning on attending the GetTogether 2003?
> Regrettably no, I shall be back in my home country of New Zealand by
> October 7th; about as far from Belgium as anyone can be - but I guess
> a jam via webcam isn't completely out of the question :)
>
> Anyhow, here is my first block. This is the MIDI generator, a test
> case, two sample MIDI files, and a sample pipeline. What is the normal
> course of action now? Do I ask a committer nicely to commit it for me?
> If so, here is my block for you, urrr "on a block" as it were.
>
> Attached is the block in a zip, and this is the gump entry (I think
> this is correct?):
>
> <project name="cocoon-block-midi" status="unstable">
> <package>org.apache.cocoon</package>
>
> <ant target="gump-block">
> <property name="block-name" value="midi"/>
> <property name="version" value="@@DATE@@"/>
> </ant>
>
> <depend project="cocoon" inherit="all"/>
>
> <work nested="tools/anttasks"/>
> <home nested="build/cocoon-@@DATE@@"/>
>
> <jar name="blocks/midi-block.jar"/>
>
> <nag from="Gump" to="dev@cocoon.apache.org"/>
> </project>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for all your help - especially the pointers and advice
> on test cases! Stephan, did I mention that your Cocoon testing code is
> fantastic and very easy to use. Can you tell that I'm impressed?!
>
> Mark
>
>
Re: MIDI block - copyright issue
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mercredi, 6 aoû 2003, à 14:03 Europe/Zurich, Vadim Gritsenko a écrit
:
> ...I'm not very comfortable with this either. I think one option would
> be to use P.A.Loeb's work as-is, i.e. add a jar with his classes.
> Another option - and even better - is to ask P.A.Loeb to transfer
> copyright for this particular derivative work to ASF so we can remove
> (c) notice. We can still have an acknowledgement that code based on
> his work as in shown in the example above.
Sounds good - Mark, could you take care of asking P.A.Loeb about this?
Basically we'd like him to allow you to donate your MIDIGenerator code
to the ASF, without having to mention him as the copyright holder.
If he agrees, I think a notice like this one should be sufficient and
would not cause any legal problems with the ASF:
The MIDI file parsing parts of this class are based on code from the
XMidi project, written
by Peter Arthur Loeb (http://www.palserv.com/XMidi/) and used with
permission.
The warranty disclaimer of the MIT license
(http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html)
applies to Peter Arthur Loeb's code.
The alternative, as Vadim mentions, would be to include P.A.Loeb's code
as a jar with the appropriate license, but this would require you to
refactor your MIDIGenerator.
-Bertrand
Re: MIDI block - copyright issue
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Mercredi, 6 aoû 2003, à 07:03 Europe/Zurich, Mark Leicester a écrit :
>
>> ...Attached is the block in a zip, and this is the gump entry (I
>> think this is
>> correct?):
>
>
> I compiled your block and technically everything is ok, great!
>
> I have a problem with the copyright notice of your MIDI generator
> though, I reproduce it below in case others want to comment.
>
> Question to Mark:
> IIUC your code is based on P.A.Loeb's work and he wants to retain the
> copyright on it, is that right?
> I don't think the mit-license is a problem as it allows you to do
> anything with the code, but I'm not sure about the copyright.
>
> Question to the Cocoon team:
> is that ok to have such code here, where parts are copyrighted by
> non-ASF entities?
I know of one case, where code copyright holder is ASF but algorithm is
copyrighted by somebody else (hm, can you (c) an algorithm?). Here is
the file:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/cocoon-2.1/src/java/org/apache/cocoon/util/HashUtil.java?rev=1.2&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
> I'm not too comfortable with these legal issues, hopefully someone
> else can help here.
> Once the legal stuff is ok, I'd be happy to commit the block.
I'm not very comfortable with this either. I think one option would be
to use P.A.Loeb's work as-is, i.e. add a jar with his classes. Another
option - and even better - is to ask P.A.Loeb to transfer copyright for
this particular derivative work to ASF so we can remove (c) notice. We
can still have an acknowledgement that code based on his work as in
shown in the example above.
Vadim
> -Bertrand
>
>
> Here's the header of the MIDIGenerator source code:
>
> /*
> * Created on Aug 2, 2003
> * by Mark Leicester
> *
> * Portions of this code are Copyright (c) 2000, Peter Arthur Loeb
> * Distributed under the MIT license (see below)
> */
>
> /*
> The following licence has been copied from
> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html
>
> Copyright (c) 2000, Peter Arthur Loeb
>
> Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining
> a copy
> of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
> to deal
> in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the
> rights
> to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
> copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
> furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
>
> The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
> included in
> all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
>
> THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
> EXPRESS OR
> IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT
> SHALL THE
> AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
> LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
> ARISING FROM,
> OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN
> THE SOFTWARE.
> */
Re: MIDI block - copyright issue
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mercredi, 6 aoû 2003, à 07:03 Europe/Zurich, Mark Leicester a écrit :
> ...Attached is the block in a zip, and this is the gump entry (I think
> this is
> correct?):
I compiled your block and technically everything is ok, great!
I have a problem with the copyright notice of your MIDI generator
though, I reproduce it below in case others want to comment.
Question to Mark:
IIUC your code is based on P.A.Loeb's work and he wants to retain the
copyright on it, is that right?
I don't think the mit-license is a problem as it allows you to do
anything with the code, but I'm not sure about the copyright.
Question to the Cocoon team:
is that ok to have such code here, where parts are copyrighted by
non-ASF entities?
I'm not too comfortable with these legal issues, hopefully someone else
can help here.
Once the legal stuff is ok, I'd be happy to commit the block.
-Bertrand
Here's the header of the MIDIGenerator source code:
/*
* Created on Aug 2, 2003
* by Mark Leicester
*
* Portions of this code are Copyright (c) 2000, Peter Arthur Loeb
* Distributed under the MIT license (see below)
*/
/*
The following licence has been copied from
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html
Copyright (c) 2000, Peter Arthur Loeb
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the
rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or
sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included
in
all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS
OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT
SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS
IN
THE SOFTWARE.
*/
Re: MIDI block (was: Another music proposal)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mercredi, 6 aoû 2003, à 07:03 Europe/Zurich, Mark Leicester a écrit :
> ...Anyhow, here is my first block. This is the MIDI generator, a test
> case, two
> sample MIDI files, and a sample pipeline. What is the normal course of
> action now? Do I ask a committer nicely to commit it for me? If so,
> here is
> my block for you, urrr "on a block" as it were...
The normal way is to create a patch on bugzilla, but I took your zip
and it looks ok, I'm testing the block as we speak and will commit it
later today.
-Bertrand
MIDI block (was: Another music proposal)
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@metering.co.nz>.
On 4/08/2003 21:03, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@codeconsult.ch>
wrote:
> To me most or all recognizable signature tunes usually become boring once you
> hear them repeatedly.
Quite right. Actually "infuriating" might be even more accurate.
> Are you planning on attending the GetTogether 2003?
Regrettably no, I shall be back in my home country of New Zealand by October
7th; about as far from Belgium as anyone can be - but I guess a jam via
webcam isn't completely out of the question :)
Anyhow, here is my first block. This is the MIDI generator, a test case, two
sample MIDI files, and a sample pipeline. What is the normal course of
action now? Do I ask a committer nicely to commit it for me? If so, here is
my block for you, urrr "on a block" as it were.
Attached is the block in a zip, and this is the gump entry (I think this is
correct?):
<project name="cocoon-block-midi" status="unstable">
<package>org.apache.cocoon</package>
<ant target="gump-block">
<property name="block-name" value="midi"/>
<property name="version" value="@@DATE@@"/>
</ant>
<depend project="cocoon" inherit="all"/>
<work nested="tools/anttasks"/>
<home nested="build/cocoon-@@DATE@@"/>
<jar name="blocks/midi-block.jar"/>
<nag from="Gump" to="dev@cocoon.apache.org"/>
</project>
Thanks everyone for all your help - especially the pointers and advice on
test cases! Stephan, did I mention that your Cocoon testing code is
fantastic and very easy to use. Can you tell that I'm impressed?!
Mark
Re: Another music proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Lundi, 4 aoû 2003, à 16:12 Europe/Zurich, Mark Leicester a écrit :
> ...it entered my
> head that we could commission a Cocoon signature tune...
To me most or all recognizable signature tunes usually become boring
once you hear them repeatedly.
But a demo track for your MIDI stuff is certainly good to have.
> So, my first thought was to take the letters of the name "Cocoon" and
> turn
> them into notes using the time-honoured method of assigning each
> letter to a
> note thus:
> Letter: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> Note: ABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDE
>
> This produces the following catchy pentatonic tune:
> C A C A A G
Are you planning on attending the GetTogether 2003? If so, and if the
jam session that is being discussed on the dev list happens, it might
be a good opportunity to turn this into a full featured "Open Music"
song ;-)
-Bertrand
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Another music proposal
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@metering.co.nz>.
On 4/08/2003 14:41, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@codeconsult.ch>
wrote:
> I have a theory that music playing requires a similar kind of brain
> than computer programming - lots of chaos mixed with some amount of
> math are required for both ;-)
Indeed. After starting work on a MIDI generator for Cocoon, it entered my
head that we could commission a Cocoon signature tune. OK, admittedly, this
is somewhat inspired by Microsoft's win 95+ logon tunes which, with daily PC
reboots, we have heard echoing around our offices all too often. Given this
is open source, and unless Brian Eno is lurking sympathetically on this list
we may have to write it ourselves?
So, my first thought was to take the letters of the name "Cocoon" and turn
them into notes using the time-honoured method of assigning each letter to a
note thus:
Letter: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Note: ABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDE
This produces the following catchy pentatonic tune:
C A C A A G
With octave displacement the possibilities grow immensely!
Any composers on the list? I have a degree in it, but that don't mean thing
if it ain't got that...
Mark
http://www.grassmarket.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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Re: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday, Aug 13, 2003, at 11:36 Europe/Rome, Andrew Savory wrote:
>
> (Sorry, late reply - been out of action for a while, now catching up)
>
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> +1, but only if David presents his view on how Bach fuges are similar
>> to Cocoon pipelines.
>
> This will definitely be happening - we've got quite a cool presentation
> worked out (only in our minds so far though). Another +1 for a musical
> gettogether!
Hurray! :-)
> --
Stefano.
Re: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Andrew Savory <an...@luminas.co.uk>.
(Sorry, late reply - been out of action for a while, now catching up)
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> +1, but only if David presents his view on how Bach fuges are similar
> to Cocoon pipelines.
This will definitely be happening - we've got quite a cool presentation
worked out (only in our minds so far though). Another +1 for a musical
gettogether!
Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory Email: andrew@luminas.co.uk
Managing Director Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658
Luminas Internet Applications Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/ Web: www.luminas.co.uk
Re: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On Monday, Aug 4, 2003, at 15:41 Europe/Rome, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> CFMP - don't you *love* new acronyms?
>
> I have a theory that music playing requires a similar kind of brain
> than computer programming - lots of chaos mixed with some amount of
> math are required for both ;-)
>
> After talking with the Belgian wing of the GetTogether team, it sounds
> like a jam session or some other forms of live music might be possible
> at the GetTogether 2003. Just turn off these silly PowerPoint sound
> effects so that the Cocoon Live Groove Academy can make some noise in
> between slides ;-)
>
> Equipment availability is unsure yet but looks possible, so that even
> the ones among us who play big heavy loud instruments would be able to
> perform.
>
> In order to find out what's possible, could those interested reply to
> this message, indicating what instrument(s) you play, what styles and
> how comfortable your are about playing unrehearsed with people that
> you didn't know five minutes ago.
>
> This will allow the GetTogether team to decide what to do when.
+1, but only if David presents his view on how Bach fuges are similar
to Cocoon pipelines.
Ah, I volunteer for jam sessions. I play piano, guitar, drums and
timpani... although I don't think there will be timpanis there ;-)
--
Stefano.
Re: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Lundi, 4 aoû 2003, à 15:52 Europe/Zurich, Matthew Langham a écrit :
> ....What a coooool idea. I'm +1 for getting Bertrand on stage - even
> if no-one
> else joins him :)
Pleeeeeeeease!
Although drums are well known to be the Most Important Instrument In
The Band (hem), drums without bass are like beer without Belgium.
Hopefully someone will step up!
-Bertrand
RE: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de>.
> Here's mine: I play drums and percussion (conga), soul, gospel and funk
> are my favorite styles, and I'm used to improvise and play unrehearsed.
>
> An improv jam session would be my thing, but I'm also open to play with
> other people in any style with a very short rehearsal.
>
> -Bertrand
>
What a coooool idea. I'm +1 for getting Bertrand on stage - even if no-one
else joins him :)
Matthew
Re: [GT2003] Call For Music Proposals
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
> In order to find out what's possible, could those interested reply to
> this message, indicating what instrument(s) you play, what styles and
> how comfortable your are about playing unrehearsed with people that
> you didn't know five minutes ago.
Here's mine: I play drums and percussion (conga), soul, gospel and funk
are my favorite styles, and I'm used to improvise and play unrehearsed.
An improv jam session would be my thing, but I'm also open to play with
other people in any style with a very short rehearsal.
-Bertrand