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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> on 2019/05/17 09:00:32 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking IPMC to vote
FWIW I tried this just recently and was requested to not do it again. Worth knowing https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/0571e9dd1b7711c588a38d8a664378ce7df31c72592edcbe8ab8a72b@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
On 2019/04/02 09:30:10, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> wrote:
> Maybe the PPMC and IPMC vote could run in parallel -- a key reason why we
> in Apache NetBeans are looking forward to graduation is that we'll not need
> to go through the loop of (1) PPMC approves, (2) IPMC rejects, (3) PPMC
> needs to put together a new release and vote on it again, (4) IPMC rejects
> again (finding something else they hadn't found before), etc. That's slowed
> the releases we have done in the incubator down significantly, typically by
> at least 2 weeks -- of course, as will be pointed out, Apache NetBeans is
> very large -- but, assuming Apache wants to be a welcome place for large
> projects too, something needs to be done here (though it won't be a problem
> for Apache NetBeans anymore since we plan to graduate before our next
> release). So, if the votes were to at least run in parallel, that would
> save time, and maybe as soon as there are 3 +1s from PPMC/IPMC members,
> that should be good to go, rather than waiting another 72 hours after that,
> in situations where those votes come in quickly.
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 11:09 AM Julian Feinauer <
> j.feinauer@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I like Craigs suggestion and I'm aware of the problem with the ASF Policy
> > if we would skip the formal IPMC Vote.
> > On the other hand in PLC4X we had a discussion about a regular release
> > cycle to bring new features to the users as fast as possible and decided to
> > skip that for now, to keep the burden on the IPMC low (and we usually have
> > 3 IPMC / Mentor Votes as we have very active Mentors).
> > I agree with this decision of the PPMC but I see a problem with that, as
> > the IPMC Vote should be something to help podlings (aside from the
> > necessity by Policy) but not "negatively" impact them.
> >
> > Perhaps it helps to see the IPMC Votes more as a "take notice" in case
> > that there are already 3 +1 Votes. This means that the vote is open for
> > 72hrs formally, but IPMC members do not feel to have to go to action
> > (usually as PMC member one "should" participate in votes... although this
> > is practiced differently in the IPMC for good reasons) but CAN if they feel
> > like.
> > This would especially mean that podlings should be encouraged to formulate
> > their votes more explicit about whether there are already enough IPMC Votes
> > or not.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> > Am 01.04.19, 23:51 schrieb "Justin Mclean" <ju...@classsoftware.com>:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd also like to see those mentors / IPMC members vote with more than
> > just a +1 and provide a list of what they checked. If they could use
> > something like this all the better [1].
> >
> > I wouldn’t be for removing the second step of letting the IPMC look at
> > it, reasonably often serious issues are found in that step. By skilling
> > that we risk some podlings going all the way to propose graduation while
> > having releases that don’t follow ASF policy. This is a situation I’d like
> > to avoid.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorReleaseChecklist
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Adrian Cole <ad...@gmail.com>.
and I also said in the announcement that this was a concurrent vote.
On Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:55 AM Adrian Cole <ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I informed our mentors.
>
> On Sat, May 18, 2019, 2:03 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
>> HI,
>>
>> Or better still if you want to try something new / not in line with
>> policy at least discuss it with the IPMC first and give them a heads up
>> that you are doing so.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
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>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Look like the topic changed, somehow? Why?
This should a discussion about the possibility and recommendation about **parallel vote**.
Let’s stay in that one, OK?
----------------
Back to the topic, as both IPMC and Zipkin mentor,
**parallel vote** is good to improve the slow progress about incubator project release.
Apache NetBeans project is not alone, I have been there, also I took/am taking part in several incubating projects.
Not just as mentor or ASF perspective, but as a community member, feature contributor, even designer.
I have heard many many feedback about the time of release too long.
**parallel vote** fits the project which already have big community and mentors are active in voting and discussion.
We(Incubator) need at least 3 +1 from IPMC, which could be mentors, and mostly from mentors, when they are active.
Even in parallel mode, the IPMC still get at least 72 hours to recheck the release.
The purpose of incubator, from my understanding, is guiding the project to build the community, be familiar with ASF, following ASF way and get better.
If **parallel vote** could help the project in that way, in this case, I want to say yes.
I know, if the project community is too young, and the mentors are not active, parallel vote may make too many traffics.
I would suggest to get the suggestions from project mentors, they should be know the project better than other IPMC.
Sheng Wu
Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> 在 2019年5月18日，下午9:24，Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 写道：
>
> Hi,
>
>> I nagged our mentors privately to vote and mentioned that I would be
>> trying a concurrent vote.
>
> IMO that communication should be public, part of doing things at the ASF is being open and tranparent. Again IMO that decision would of been better done via consensus of the PPMC and not conducted in private.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by ba...@tobin.nl.
Sorry Justin but this is you looking for “problems” that just are not there and to me it comes across as you taking joy out of frustrating people. Nothing about “nagging mentors privately to vote” holds any additional / relevant information that needs disclosure to the public.
So something needs to be done AND this CTA has been advertised in public and we all want to move things forward. Now we have the option to either contact stakeholders directly to do it in a much more effective synchronous manner to expedite things or plea a second time in a public forum for this CTA in the hope they read and take action on time.
Please stop trying to see issues in everything because the boy cried wolf effect is enormous and you’re hurting morale.
Bas
> Op 18 mei 2019, om 15:24 heeft Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Hi,
>
>> I nagged our mentors privately to vote and mentioned that I would be
>> trying a concurrent vote.
>
> IMO that communication should be public, part of doing things at the ASF is being open and tranparent. Again IMO that decision would of been better done via consensus of the PPMC and not conducted in private.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I nagged our mentors privately to vote and mentioned that I would be
> trying a concurrent vote.
IMO that communication should be public, part of doing things at the ASF is being open and tranparent. Again IMO that decision would of been better done via consensus of the PPMC and not conducted in private.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Willem Jiang <wi...@gmail.com>.
Yes, we (mentors of Zipkin) were informed about the vote in private mail.
I think it should be fine to ping mentor privately about the release
vote, as we cannot always monitor the dev mailing list.
Otherwise, it will some time for us to response the release vote.
Willem Jiang
Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem
On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 5:39 PM Adrian Cole <ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Can you point me to where the PPMC has a discussion about this?
>
> I nagged our mentors privately to vote and mentioned that I would be
> trying a concurrent vote.
>
> Everyone in our PPMC is aware of the vote delay problem and this
> thread. We have had numerous discussions about this topic since
> incubation.
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Adrian Cole <ad...@gmail.com>.
> Can you point me to where the PPMC has a discussion about this?
I nagged our mentors privately to vote and mentioned that I would be
trying a concurrent vote.
Everyone in our PPMC is aware of the vote delay problem and this
thread. We have had numerous discussions about this topic since
incubation.
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I informed our mentors.
Can you point me to where the PPMC has a discussion about this?
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Adrian Cole <ad...@gmail.com>.
I informed our mentors.
On Sat, May 18, 2019, 2:03 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> HI,
>
> Or better still if you want to try something new / not in line with policy
> at least discuss it with the IPMC first and give them a heads up that you
> are doing so.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>
Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
Or better still if you want to try something new / not in line with policy at least discuss it with the IPMC first and give them a heads up that you are doing so.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Mentors SHOULD vote on podling releases prior to asking
IPMC to vote
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Given your podling has made few releases and each one has had some issues I would suggest you did this too soon, but happy to see what other IPMC members have to say on this.
Thanks,
Justin
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