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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org> on 2012/11/08 11:43:14 UTC
Streamlining new committers info
Hey folks,
sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd
really like to streamline and de-duplicate the (new)
committers info on http://www.apache.org/dev/
This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something
in the diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
you don't like or completely agree with, your input is
absolutely welcome!
So long,
i
--
Igor Galić
Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
URL: http://brainsware.org/
GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
Re: Streamlining new committers info: projects.a.o
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Yes, the grand plan for projects.a.o is to have a single place that
provides an overview of all Apache software products (as well as Apache
projects too). This is an idea that needs some people to help drive it
to both ensure it's updated, as well as to provide a better UI for users.
Imagine having the front pages and categories/search of ohloh,
sourceforge, and Google Code rolled together, but just displaying Apache
projects. It'd be a huge win to let the public know what we build.
----
David R. and others (a while back) created the projects.a.o code (that
uses a mess of different technologies, including perl and XSLT on a cron
job, which means it's hard to decipher how it works 8-() that actually
scans the DOAPs and generates the website, with various indices. This
is my main goal - to improve the usability of this site, both with a
nicer UI (with introductions explaining what it is to average users) as
well as with better data (for example, with an improved taxonomy as
suggested below).
Now, actually improving the taxonomy is a two step process, that I'd
love to see energetic volunteers working on:
- Figuring out an XML-compliant way to improve the taxonomy(ies)
available in the DOAPs. We need a 'good enough' solution, not a perfect
one.
- Working with projects (or simply doing it ourselves and submitting
patches to projects) to actually update all the DOAPs with these
improved taxonomies. We can't rely on all projects being diligent about
updating their DOAPs - experience has shown, some projects just never
get around to it.
----
Using DOAP files also means we can provide a simple API (or set of
URLs/REST service/whatever) for external entities to come crawl
themselves, if they want to provide their own mapping of Apache
software. That's one of the reasons that providing a DOAP file is a
branding requirement for all Apache projects.
* A nice-to-have would be a simple set of public instructions for people
to figure out how to scan our set of DOAPs themselves.
Sounds like it was a great ApacheCon, and hoping to get to know some of
you working on projects.a.o! 8-)
- Shane, sadly based in the US without funding to travel these days
On 11/10/2012 7:44 AM, Tammo van Lessen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>wrote:
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Igor Galić [mailto:i.galic@brainsware.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:32 PM
>>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>>> Cc: ASF Site-Dev
>>> Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info
>>>
>>>
>>> Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more useful info on
>>> the *main* page about what the projects do and how to get the one you
>>> need: i.e.: I'm looking for a Database - it should be a Key-Value store,
>> in Java.
>>> And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
>>
>> Sounds like what's on projects.apache.org [1] already.
>>
>> Gav...
>>
>> [1] - http://projects.apache.org/indexes/category.html
>>
>>
> I like the idea to improve this aspect on the main page as well as I also
> have difficulties to understand which projects does what and how it
> compares to others (especially in the hadoop incubator ecosystem). I think
> DOAP (and semwebtech) is well suited to do this job, but what is IMHO
> missing right now is a taxonomy of categories. Currently, categories are
> flat and used as tags. By using something like SKOS, we could define a
> tree-like vocabulary of our projects' categories, e.g. a "Key-Value store"
> is a narrower term for "Database". See [1] to get an idea of such a
> taxonomy. If the doap files would then reference the most narrow category,
> Igors example could be answered easily datawise. UI-wise, the data could be
> materialized and then visualized, either graphically or with something like
> Exibit [2], see [3] for a demo. Just an idea, I'm happy to help if time
> permits.
>
> Best,
> Tammo
>
> [1] http://try.iqvoc.net/en/hierarchical_concepts.html
> [2] http://simile-widgets.org/exhibit3/
> [3] http://databench.zepheira.com/demos/history/decide.html
>
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Tammo van Lessen <tv...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Igor Galić [mailto:i.galic@brainsware.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:32 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: ASF Site-Dev
> > Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info
> >
> >
> > Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more useful info on
> > the *main* page about what the projects do and how to get the one you
> > need: i.e.: I'm looking for a Database - it should be a Key-Value store,
> in Java.
> > And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
>
> Sounds like what's on projects.apache.org [1] already.
>
> Gav...
>
> [1] - http://projects.apache.org/indexes/category.html
>
>
I like the idea to improve this aspect on the main page as well as I also
have difficulties to understand which projects does what and how it
compares to others (especially in the hadoop incubator ecosystem). I think
DOAP (and semwebtech) is well suited to do this job, but what is IMHO
missing right now is a taxonomy of categories. Currently, categories are
flat and used as tags. By using something like SKOS, we could define a
tree-like vocabulary of our projects' categories, e.g. a "Key-Value store"
is a narrower term for "Database". See [1] to get an idea of such a
taxonomy. If the doap files would then reference the most narrow category,
Igors example could be answered easily datawise. UI-wise, the data could be
materialized and then visualized, either graphically or with something like
Exibit [2], see [3] for a demo. Just an idea, I'm happy to help if time
permits.
Best,
Tammo
[1] http://try.iqvoc.net/en/hierarchical_concepts.html
[2] http://simile-widgets.org/exhibit3/
[3] http://databench.zepheira.com/demos/history/decide.html
RE: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Galić [mailto:i.galic@brainsware.org]
> Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:32 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: ASF Site-Dev
> Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info
>
>
> Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more useful info on
> the *main* page about what the projects do and how to get the one you
> need: i.e.: I'm looking for a Database - it should be a Key-Value store, in Java.
> And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
Sounds like what's on projects.apache.org [1] already.
Gav...
[1] - http://projects.apache.org/indexes/category.html
>
> etc..
>
> i
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just to add to that, our priority will be to look at what's outdated
> > and make the documents generally more accessible for newcomers.
> > The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a discussion
> > with an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing
> > through the website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be
> > as clear as that (without the beer :))
> >
> > Sander
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd really like to
> > > streamline and de-duplicate the (new) committers info on
> > > http://www.apache.org/dev/
> > >
> > > This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something in the
> > > diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> > > you don't like or completely agree with, your input is absolutely
> > > welcome!
> > >
> > > So long,
> > >
> > > i
> > >
> > > --
> > > Igor Galić
> > >
> > > Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> > > Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> > > URL: http://brainsware.org/
> > > GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Igor Galić
>
> Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> URL: http://brainsware.org/
> GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
RE: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sander van der Waal [mailto:sander.vanderwaal@gmail.com]
> Sent: 09 November 2012 12:58
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: ASF Site-Dev
> Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more useful info
> > on the *main* page about what the projects do and how to get the one
> > you need: i.e.: I'm looking for a Database - it should be a Key-Value
> > store, in Java.
> > And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
> >
>
> The projects site that I mentioned at the BoF is this one:
>
> http://projects.apache.org/indexes/pmc.html
>
> This is probably depended on PMC-maintained DOAP files?
Yes (well committers to be precise), see the links on the left of the page you link to.
Behind the scenes it’s a bunch of Perl scripts and XSLT.
> Categories are in there but not as detailed as you'd like..
> Having all PMCs update these would be a pain I suppose.
The approach in building this site in the first place was to say if you don't do it you are not included. If you don't update your files you won't remain up to date. It worked perfectly well as you can see and is not just part of the normal process.
The trick is to build something that is seen as truly useful and demonstrate its usefulness. If you can do that then PMCs will do what is necessary. Of course, the DOAP is in SVN so it's just a case of submitting a patch to a reasonable number of projects to kickstart adoption.
I suggest you think about how wider benefits can be gained. For example, why not provide integration with the ASF CMS so that projects can have an auto generated "related projects" page. This means the projects see local benefit for the effort of maintaining their DOAP and thus it is more likely.
Ross
>
> Sander
>
>
> >
> > etc..
> >
> > i
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Just to add to that, our priority will be to look at what's outdated
> > > and make the documents generally more accessible for newcomers.
> > > The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a
> > > discussion with an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than
> > > ploughing through the website. So we think it'd be great if the
> > > documents can be as clear as that (without the beer :))
> > >
> > > Sander
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey folks,
> > > >
> > > > sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd really like
> > > > to streamline and de-duplicate the (new) committers info on
> > > > http://www.apache.org/dev/
> > > >
> > > > This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something in the
> > > > diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> > > > you don't like or completely agree with, your input is absolutely
> > > > welcome!
> > > >
> > > > So long,
> > > >
> > > > i
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Igor Galić
> > > >
> > > > Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> > > > Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> > > > URL: http://brainsware.org/
> > > > GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Igor Galić
> >
> > Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> > Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> > URL: http://brainsware.org/
> > GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
> >
> >
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Sander van der Waal <sa...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org> wrote:
>
> Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more
> useful info on the *main* page about what the projects do
> and how to get the one you need: i.e.: I'm looking for a
> Database - it should be a Key-Value store, in Java.
> And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
>
The projects site that I mentioned at the BoF is this one:
http://projects.apache.org/indexes/pmc.html
This is probably depended on PMC-maintained DOAP files?
Categories are in there but not as detailed as you'd like..
Having all PMCs update these would be a pain I suppose.
Sander
>
> etc..
>
> i
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just to add to that, our priority will be to look at what's outdated
> > and
> > make the documents generally more accessible for newcomers.
> > The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a
> > discussion with
> > an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing through
> > the
> > website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be as clear
> > as that
> > (without the beer :))
> >
> > Sander
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd
> > > really like to streamline and de-duplicate the (new)
> > > committers info on http://www.apache.org/dev/
> > >
> > > This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something
> > > in the diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> > > you don't like or completely agree with, your input is
> > > absolutely welcome!
> > >
> > > So long,
> > >
> > > i
> > >
> > > --
> > > Igor Galić
> > >
> > > Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> > > Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> > > URL: http://brainsware.org/
> > > GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Igor Galić
>
> Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> URL: http://brainsware.org/
> GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
>
>
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>.
Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more
useful info on the *main* page about what the projects do
and how to get the one you need: i.e.: I'm looking for a
Database - it should be a Key-Value store, in Java.
And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra
etc..
i
----- Original Message -----
> Hi All,
>
> Just to add to that, our priority will be to look at what's outdated
> and
> make the documents generally more accessible for newcomers.
> The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a
> discussion with
> an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing through
> the
> website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be as clear
> as that
> (without the beer :))
>
> Sander
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd
> > really like to streamline and de-duplicate the (new)
> > committers info on http://www.apache.org/dev/
> >
> > This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something
> > in the diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> > you don't like or completely agree with, your input is
> > absolutely welcome!
> >
> > So long,
> >
> > i
> >
> > --
> > Igor Galić
> >
> > Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> > Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> > URL: http://brainsware.org/
> > GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
> >
> >
>
--
Igor Galić
Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
URL: http://brainsware.org/
GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org>.
----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 05:33:51PM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> > See the rather unused "local mentors" app from the ComDev PMC at
> > http://community.zones.apache.org/
>
> Thanks! I've signed up for beer^Wbeing a local mentor.
I did that too, but when I look for speakers/mentors in Vienna
I can't find myself there.
--
Igor Galić
Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
URL: http://brainsware.org/
GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 05:33:51PM +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> See the rather unused "local mentors" app from the ComDev PMC at
> http://community.zones.apache.org/
Thanks! I've signed up for beer^Wbeing a local mentor.
RE: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Sperling [mailto:stsp@apache.org]
> Sent: 08 November 2012 16:06
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: ASF Site-Dev
> Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info
>
> On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 12:28:57PM +0100, Sander van der Waal wrote:
> > The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a discussion
> > with an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing
> > through the website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be
> > as clear as that (without the beer :))
>
> Perhaps the site should actively encourage people to invite their local
apache
> committers for beer then :) We have a committers map for a reason!
See the rather unused "local mentors" app from the ComDev PMC at
http://community.zones.apache.org/
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 12:28:57PM +0100, Sander van der Waal wrote:
> The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a discussion with
> an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing through the
> website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be as clear as that
> (without the beer :))
Perhaps the site should actively encourage people to invite their
local apache committers for beer then :)
We have a committers map for a reason!
Re: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Sander van der Waal <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi All,
Just to add to that, our priority will be to look at what's outdated and
make the documents generally more accessible for newcomers.
The amount of information is overwhelming and for example a discussion with
an ASF member over beer makes much more clear than ploughing through the
website. So we think it'd be great if the documents can be as clear as that
(without the beer :))
Sander
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Igor Galić <i....@brainsware.org> wrote:
>
> Hey folks,
>
> sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd
> really like to streamline and de-duplicate the (new)
> committers info on http://www.apache.org/dev/
>
> This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something
> in the diffs or on http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> you don't like or completely agree with, your input is
> absolutely welcome!
>
> So long,
>
> i
>
> --
> Igor Galić
>
> Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> URL: http://brainsware.org/
> GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE
>
>
RE: Streamlining new committers info
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Great idea...
While at it if you can place any useful signposts on the ComDev site that would be good. The goal of the ComDev site is not to duplicate information held elsewhere but to provide very brief overviews with pointers to more details. The appropriate section is [1]
The ComDev site is editable by anyone via the CMS
[1] http://community.apache.org/committers/index.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Galić [mailto:i.galic@brainsware.org]
> Sent: 08 November 2012 11:43
> To: ASF Site-Dev; dev
> Subject: Streamlining new committers info
>
>
> Hey folks,
>
> sitting here at ApacheCon Sander (van der Waal), we'd really like to
> streamline and de-duplicate the (new) committers info on
> http://www.apache.org/dev/
>
> This is just to give you a heads up! If you see something in the diffs or on
> http://www.staging.apache.org/dev/
> you don't like or completely agree with, your input is absolutely welcome!
>
> So long,
>
> i
>
> --
> Igor Galić
>
> Tel: +43 (0) 664 886 22 883
> Mail: i.galic@brainsware.org
> URL: http://brainsware.org/
> GPG: 6880 4155 74BD FD7C B515 2EA5 4B1D 9E08 A097 C9AE