Re: Jira components for cross-language transforms

[Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>]

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 12:34 PM Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@google.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 8:53 PM Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> -0, sorry I'm late. But I guess you are not sorry since everyone else
>> agrees :-)
>>
>> I just don't know what this accomplishes. Most components correspond to a
>> software component/codebase. The only components that do not correspond to
>> a codebase are things that are sort of independent, like "test-failures"
>> and "gcp-quota".
>>
>> This seems like a label does all the same things, since you can tag with
>> multiple components. AFAIK the only difference between a component and a
>> label is that Jira requires >= component (actually I bet we control this).
>> Does it make analytics dashboards more useful?
>>
>> A hypothetical test is: when will I tag with this component? That is
>> actually not so clear. If I am a Python user in the future, and xlang is
>> done very well, then I may not even know that I am using a Java-based
>> component. So what I want to find is either "io-python-kafka" (for the
>> wrapper) or "io-kafka" (if the wrapper is so good I don't even know). I
>> think the future of portable Beam is probably to go with "io-kafka".
>>
>
>> The reason I am -0 is that it is harmless to have extra components and
>> use them when a label would suffice.
>>
>
> I get your point and in the distant future where cross-language transforms
> framework works seamlessly for all major SDK/runner combinations we might
> come to a state where we do not need this Jira component. But we are not
> there yet :).  Given that various folks are working on and/or interested in
> picking up tasks related to cross-language transforms and given that many
> users may potentially start using cross-language transforms in the near
> future I think the Jira component will make things easier to manage. Also
> please note that we at least have one component per language,
> expansion-service, as a cross-language specific component.
>
> Labels might achieve the same thing but seems like it's harder to maintain
> a consistent label across folks working on various runners/SDKs.
>

Very good point. I'm +1 now. I said the main difference is that Jira
requires >=1 component, but I was wrong. I missed two other important
differences: components cannot be dynamically created, and the autocomplete
list is just for Beam, so they are kept more consistent. TBH it makes me
want to use them for everything to avoid all of ASF Jira leaking into the
project. Concretely, I wonder if we should use components for "flakes" and
"starter-bugs" so that these are kept more consistent, too. Right now we
have a flexible search to find all tasks labeled "starter", "newbie",
"easyfix", etc.

Kenn




> Thanks,
> Cham
>
>
>>
>> Kenn
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@google.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks. I'll go ahead and add related Jiras to it.
>>>
>>> - Cham
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:49 AM Luke Cwik <lc...@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have added the new component:
>>>>
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20BEAM%20AND%20component%20%3D%20cross-language
>>>>
>>>> I didn't set a component owner for it and made the default assignee be
>>>> the project default (unassigned). If you would like any of these to be
>>>> changed, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:18 AM Chamikara Jayalath <
>>>> chamikara@google.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good point. "cross-language" sgtm.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020, 8:57 AM Kyle Weaver <kc...@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nit: can we name it `cross-language` instead of `xlang`?
>>>>>> Component names auto-complete, so there's no reason to abbreviate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:54 AM Chamikara Jayalath <
>>>>>> chamikara@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the comments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can someone please create a single Jira component named "xlang" ?
>>>>>>> Looks like I don't have access to create components.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Cham
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:24 AM Alexey Romanenko <
>>>>>>> aromanenko.dev@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 to new non split component.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 29 May 2020, at 07:19, Heejong Lee <he...@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If we use one meta component tag for all xlang related issues, I
>>>>>>>> would prefer just "xlang". Then we could attach the "xlang" tag to not only
>>>>>>>> language specific sdk tags but also other runner tags e.g. ['xlang',
>>>>>>>> 'io-java-kafka'], ['xlang'', 'runner-dataflow'].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:49 PM Robert Burke <ro...@frantil.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 to new component not split. The language concerns can be
>>>>>>>>> represented and filtered with the existing sdk tags. I know I'm interested
>>>>>>>>> in all sdk-go issues, and would prefer not to have to union tags when
>>>>>>>>> searching for Go related issues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 15:48, Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 to new component not splitted
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Other use case is using libraries not available in your language
>>>>>>>>>> e.g. using some python transform that relies in a python only API in the
>>>>>>>>>> middle of a Java pipeline.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:12 PM Chamikara Jayalath <
>>>>>>>>>> chamikara@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I proposed three components since the audience might be
>>>>>>>>>>> different. Also we can use the same component to track issues related to
>>>>>>>>>>> all cross-language wrappers available in a given SDK. If this is too much a
>>>>>>>>>>> single component is fine as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ashwin, as others pointed out, the cross-language transforms
>>>>>>>>>>> framework is primarily for giving SDKs access to transforms that are not
>>>>>>>>>>> available natively. But there are other potential use-cases as well (for
>>>>>>>>>>> example, using two different Python environments within the same
>>>>>>>>>>> pipeline).
>>>>>>>>>>> Exact performance will depend on the runner implementation as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as the additional cost involved due to serializing/deserializing data
>>>>>>>>>>> across environment boundaries. But we haven't done enough
>>>>>>>>>>> analysis/benchmarking to provide more details on this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Cham
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:55 PM Kyle Weaver <kc...@google.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> > What are some of the benefits / drawbacks of using
>>>>>>>>>>>> cross-language transforms? Would a native Python transform perform better
>>>>>>>>>>>> than a cross-language transform written in Java that is then used in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Python pipeline?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As Rui says, the main advantage is code reuse. See
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org/roadmap/connectors-multi-sdk/ for more
>>>>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 4:53 PM Rui Wang <ru...@google.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on dedicated components for cross-language transform. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be easy to manage to have one component (one tag for all SDK) rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than multiple ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re Ashwin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cham knows more than me. AFAIK, cross-language transforms will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maximize code reuse for newly developed SDK (e.g. IO transforms for Go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SDK). Of course, a SDK can develop its own IOs, but it's lots of work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Rui
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:50 PM Ashwin Ramaswami <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> aramaswamis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are some of the benefits / drawbacks of using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cross-language transforms? Would a native Python transform perform better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than a cross-language transform written in Java that is then used in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Python pipeline?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashwin Ramaswami
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Student
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Find me on my:* LinkedIn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashwin-r> | Website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://epicfaace.github.io/> | GitHub
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/epicfaace>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 4:44 PM Kyle Weaver <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kcweaver@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGTM. Though I'm not sure it's necessary to split by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language. It might be easier to use a single cross-language tag, rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than having to tag lots of issues as both sdks-python-xlang and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sdks-java-xlang.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 4:29 PM Chamikara Jayalath <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chamikara@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's good if we can have new Jira components to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily track various issues related to cross-language transforms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about adding the following Jira
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sdks-python-xlang
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sdks-java-xlang
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sdks-go-xlang
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jira component sdks-foo-xlang is for tracking issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to cross-language transforms for SDK Foo. For example,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Issues related cross-language transforms wrappers written
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in SDK Foo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Issues related to transforms implemented in SDK Foo that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are offered as cross-language transforms to other SDKs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Issues related to cross-language transform expansion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service implemented for SDK Foo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cham
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>