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Posted to user@turbine.apache.org by John Menke <jo...@eagleinfosystems.com> on 2001/04/23 02:17:01 UTC
In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Could somebody experienced with Turbine make an example application
checklist that will give beginner's at least a list of suggested steps to
perform?
I have been trying to read everything I can about Turbine. I have
downloaded the TDK I have read the documentation that comes with it. There
appears to not be anything in terms of a sample application or tutorial. In
absence of this could someone who is experienced with Turbine please suggest
a course of action for building my a sample application.
WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR IS SORT OF A ROADMAP (Start here, do this, then do
that....)
It's just that I don't have a good idea of where to start when developing an
application... As I understand, can be used in 3 ways
1. As a Servlet framework with Turbine as the controller.
2 As a framework of useful code in your application.
3 As a Object-Relational Tool
I would be most interested in a checklist for type 1 application, although
others may need type 2 or type 3.
I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF SOMEBODY COULD PUT TOGETHER THIS CHECKLIST. I
really feel that it would help beginners like me. Without a tutorial,
Turbine is very hard to learn. A checklist could at least be a temporary
solution to the problem of not having a tutorial.
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RE: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by "James S. Carlson" <js...@speakeasy.net>.
I'd also love to participate in this. I'm migrating (upgrading?) a
Bitmechanic GSP / JServ based application to a Turbine/Tomcat based
application. I'll keep careful notes as I work on this over the next 48
hours. I'll even write down what I dream about, if it's related. :)
Regards,
James Carlson
-----Original Message-----
From: jvanzyl [mailto:jvanzyl]On Behalf Of Jason van Zyl
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:46 PM
To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
> > Are you willing to meet us halfway in producing a tutorial? I will
> > help and I'm sure Cam will help too, as a tutorial would be a much
> > appreciated addition.
>
> YOU HAVE A DEAL. HOW DO YOU SUGGEST I START? I can devote alot of time
this
> week to it.
>
>
I will be in NYC this week, but I will answer my email nightly. If you send
me
questions I will answer them.
I would say go the use case route. Come up with a simple application
that you would like to make from a user's perspective and then we
can decide what parts of turbine will satisfy the need. The little
use case would be great to include in the tutorial.
Some sub topics might be:
1. Understanding your project properties.
2. Designing your application schema.
3. Understanding your project build file.
4. How to create screens and actions.
I could definitely work with you on a set of topics.
I will be back home on the weekend and we can either get
together in the chat room on sat and or sun, or I can call you.
We can figure out the details in private email.
Thanks! You'll be helping a lot of people!
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jvanzyl@apache.org
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RE: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by John Menke <jo...@eagleinfosystems.com>.
Aashi, I like your ideas regarding user management additions. In a
previous post I
started list that was based on the Features List on the Turbine site. I
have added your suggestions to this list.
> It'd be cool if you could add some user management stuff on top of
> that, since that's very turbine-like. maybe have a portion of the website
> that you need a login to use. perhaps a section where you can do some
> database manipulation only if you are logged in?
>
> also, perhaps extend a screen to do something on "every page" instead
> of just using the standard screen objects?
>
> i've seen alot of posts about people using the file upload section, and
> having
> issues.. perhaps have a file upload section of the website?
>
> then later :) perhaps show some of the cool services that
> turbine has built
>
>
FEATURE LIST
------------
User Management Capabilities:
- We should integrate this capability within the system. User should be
able to change site configuration. (Maybe we could tie this in with the
templating system?)
Integration with template systems: Velocity, WebMacro, Cocoon, FreeMarker,
JSP, ECS
- we could show how to design a system using Model 2 methodology having
Turbine servlets as the Controller and the templating systems as the views.
It would be great if we could demonstrate how to make the controller generic
enough to be able to support more than one view. We should implement at
least one view - I suggest JSP - but show how it's possible to switch view
implementation to any of the other template systems
Utility code for working with Velocity and WebMacro, such as a SelectorBox
class for building <select> boxes
- This could be demonstrated within the View implementation
Single Entry Point Servlet model for optimal security and control
- This could be demonstrated in the login step of the use case
Singleton based Database Connection Pool (JDBC) with built in support for
all of the major databases
- The tutorial could show how to implement connection pooling to update the
data.
ParameterParsing for GET/POST/PATH_INFO
- UI would have forms where we could demonstrate this
Event based Action handling!
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Strict MVC guidelines implemented through many interfaces and abstract
classes as well as through the template systems.
- This goes along with the templating idea above
Integration with 5 Object-Relational tools: DatabaseMap/Peers, Village,
Town, OPaL, Castor
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
IDBroker that abstracts the autoinsert/sequence usage from the database
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
DatabaseMap generation tool that will read a schema and generate the Java
classes for you
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Failsafe Job based scheduler system (ie: a Java based cron)
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
GlobalCache (Singleton based system for caching data across servlets and
requests)
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
DateSelector (utility for building the HTML for popup date menus)
- This could possibly be used within the context of the GUI
File Upload API
- This could possibly be used - maybe the database contains pictures?
Generic Services API for creating Singletons
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Castor Service Integration
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
XML-RPC Service Integration
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Localization Services API
- possibly integrate with UI presentation?
JNDI Services API
- if we expand use case so that back end is EJB's this could be
demonstrated
Visitor/Member API for managing users
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Temporary and Permanent storage/management for users session data
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
ACL (Access Control List) based security system that uses Roles and
Permissions (and the database schemas)
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
BrowserDetector class for determining which browser someone is using
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
GenerateUniqueId class for getting a unique number (ie: for sessions)
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Logging to a file facility.
- We could implement logging in the application
Property file reader tools and a TurbineResources service to make it easy to
retrieve properties
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Integration with JavaMail to make sending email painless
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Integration with JavaMail and Velocity/WebMacro to allow you to send
processed Velocity templates as email!
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Built using Ant
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
Initial application development WAR archive creation tool using Ant
- Not sure how to implement this (any suggestions)?
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Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
One of the best ways to learn something is to dive in and start doing it...
We welcome your patches and contributions.
-jon
on 4/23/01 7:16 AM, "Aashi Deacon" <aa...@stdio.com> wrote:
>
> It'd be cool if you could add some user management stuff on top of
> that, since that's very turbine-like. maybe have a portion of the website
> that you need a login to use. perhaps a section where you can do some
> database manipulation only if you are logged in?
>
> also, perhaps extend a screen to do something on "every page" instead
> of just using the standard screen objects?
>
> i've seen alot of posts about people using the file upload section, and
> having
> issues.. perhaps have a file upload section of the website?
>
> then later :) perhaps show some of the cool services that turbine has built
>
> in.. im' sure others would have a better idea of the more way cool
> services..
>
> i'd be willing to help on this!
>
> aash
>
>
>
> John Menke wrote:
>
>>> I will be in NYC this week, but I will answer my email nightly.
>>> If you send me
>>> questions I will answer them.
>>>
>> Sounds good
>>
>>> I would say go the use case route. Come up with a simple application
>>> that you would like to make from a user's perspective and then we
>>> can decide what parts of turbine will satisfy the need. The little
>>> use case would be great to include in the tutorial.
>>>
>>
>> How about a simple database front end application? Maybe something that
>> uses Turbine and Model 2
>> methodology to produce forms to update and display data to a database. I
>> have access to Postgres. What do you think? We could even expand it to
>> JBoss and EJB's later.
>>
>>> Some sub topics might be:
>>>
>>> 1. Understanding your project properties.
>>> 2. Designing your application schema.
>>> 3. Understanding your project build file.
>>> 4. How to create screens and actions.
>>>
>>
>> If I write the use case, maybe you can show me how to expand into these
>> areas.
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: turbine-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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>
--
If you come from a Perl or PHP background, JSP is a way to take
your pain to new levels. --Anonymous
<http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd.html>
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Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Aashi Deacon <aa...@stdio.com>.
It'd be cool if you could add some user management stuff on top of
that, since that's very turbine-like. maybe have a portion of the website
that you need a login to use. perhaps a section where you can do some
database manipulation only if you are logged in?
also, perhaps extend a screen to do something on "every page" instead
of just using the standard screen objects?
i've seen alot of posts about people using the file upload section, and
having
issues.. perhaps have a file upload section of the website?
then later :) perhaps show some of the cool services that turbine has built
in.. im' sure others would have a better idea of the more way cool
services..
i'd be willing to help on this!
aash
John Menke wrote:
> > I will be in NYC this week, but I will answer my email nightly.
> > If you send me
> > questions I will answer them.
> >
> Sounds good
>
> > I would say go the use case route. Come up with a simple application
> > that you would like to make from a user's perspective and then we
> > can decide what parts of turbine will satisfy the need. The little
> > use case would be great to include in the tutorial.
> >
>
> How about a simple database front end application? Maybe something that
> uses Turbine and Model 2
> methodology to produce forms to update and display data to a database. I
> have access to Postgres. What do you think? We could even expand it to
> JBoss and EJB's later.
>
> > Some sub topics might be:
> >
> > 1. Understanding your project properties.
> > 2. Designing your application schema.
> > 3. Understanding your project build file.
> > 4. How to create screens and actions.
> >
>
> If I write the use case, maybe you can show me how to expand into these
> areas.
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: turbine-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
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RE: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by John Menke <jo...@eagleinfosystems.com>.
> I will be in NYC this week, but I will answer my email nightly.
> If you send me
> questions I will answer them.
>
Sounds good
> I would say go the use case route. Come up with a simple application
> that you would like to make from a user's perspective and then we
> can decide what parts of turbine will satisfy the need. The little
> use case would be great to include in the tutorial.
>
How about a simple database front end application? Maybe something that
uses Turbine and Model 2
methodology to produce forms to update and display data to a database. I
have access to Postgres. What do you think? We could even expand it to
JBoss and EJB's later.
> Some sub topics might be:
>
> 1. Understanding your project properties.
> 2. Designing your application schema.
> 3. Understanding your project build file.
> 4. How to create screens and actions.
>
If I write the use case, maybe you can show me how to expand into these
areas.
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Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Jason van Zyl <jv...@apache.org>.
> > Are you willing to meet us halfway in producing a tutorial? I will
> > help and I'm sure Cam will help too, as a tutorial would be a much
> > appreciated addition.
>
> YOU HAVE A DEAL. HOW DO YOU SUGGEST I START? I can devote alot of time this
> week to it.
>
>
I will be in NYC this week, but I will answer my email nightly. If you send me
questions I will answer them.
I would say go the use case route. Come up with a simple application
that you would like to make from a user's perspective and then we
can decide what parts of turbine will satisfy the need. The little
use case would be great to include in the tutorial.
Some sub topics might be:
1. Understanding your project properties.
2. Designing your application schema.
3. Understanding your project build file.
4. How to create screens and actions.
I could definitely work with you on a set of topics.
I will be back home on the weekend and we can either get
together in the chat room on sat and or sun, or I can call you.
We can figure out the details in private email.
Thanks! You'll be helping a lot of people!
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jvanzyl@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by John Menke <jo...@eagleinfosystems.com>.
See inline:
>
> There is a sample application, and the README_FIRST.txt file in the top
> level directory explains how to make it.
>
OK, I see it. (For some reason I didn't realize this was the
sample...doh..)
>
> I will help you make a road map, I would be happy too, but I
> don't have time
> right
> now to do it for you. I intend on adding lots of documentation
> for the TDK but
> it won't be in place until the 2.2 release of turbine. Any help
> documenting
> the TDK for someone who is starting would help a lot of people.
>
I currently have time to help.
>
> We do what we can in terms of documentation, we are all busy. I have put
> out the offer before to people who need help when starting: if you try to
> work your way through getting started and document the process I will
> answer every last one of your questions. But I'm not going to do it for
> you. I have plans to get the TDK docs up to scratch for the 2.2
> release but
> writing docs is many fold harder than writing the actual code, I find it
> an enjoyable but difficult task.
>
> I have made this offer, actually very recently, to people in the past who
> have fervently bemoaned the state of the Turbine documention but they
> always seem to quickly fade once they've solved their particular needs.
>
> Are you willing to meet us halfway in producing a tutorial? I will
> help and I'm sure Cam will help too, as a tutorial would be a much
> appreciated addition.
YOU HAVE A DEAL. HOW DO YOU SUGGEST I START? I can devote alot of time this
week to it.
>
> I agree on one hand with the mentality that with every good piece
> of software produced should be partnered with good documentation,
> and I am the first the admit that the documenation for Turbine is
> woefully lacking, but the reality is that in OpenSource it's difficult
> to keep the docs up to date.
>
> I know that you are just trying to figure things out, and it's not
> easy. But the only way the documentation will improve is if
> you do something about it.
>
> Again I make the offer, if you pick a day on a weekend I can meet
> you in the chat room and I will answer every one of your questions
> while you battle your way through your first application.
>
> The offer goes out to anyone starting with Turbine, otherwise the
> tutorial documentation will come when it comes. If you don't want
> to help us write, or are waiting for someone else to do it then you're
> just going to have to be patient.
>
> --
> jvz.
>
> Jason van Zyl
> jvanzyl@apache.org
>
>
>
>
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>
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RE: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Kevin Newman <kn...@home.com>.
I'd like to help also, where do I sign-up?
kln
-----Original Message-----
From: jvanzyl@mx6-rwc.mail.home.com
[mailto:jvanzyl@mx6-rwc.mail.home.com]On Behalf Of Jason van Zyl
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 8:08 PM
To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
John Menke wrote:
> Could somebody experienced with Turbine make an example application
> checklist that will give beginner's at least a list of suggested steps to
> perform?
>
> I have been trying to read everything I can about Turbine. I have
> downloaded the TDK I have read the documentation that comes with it.
There
> appears to not be anything in terms of a sample application or tutorial.
There is a sample application, and the README_FIRST.txt file in the top
level directory explains how to make it.
> In
> absence of this could someone who is experienced with Turbine please
suggest
> a course of action for building my a sample application.
Again, there is a sample application.
>
>
>
> WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR IS SORT OF A ROADMAP (Start here, do this, then do
> that....)
I will help you make a road map, I would be happy too, but I don't have time
right
now to do it for you. I intend on adding lots of documentation for the TDK
but
it won't be in place until the 2.2 release of turbine. Any help documenting
the TDK for someone who is starting would help a lot of people.
>
>
> It's just that I don't have a good idea of where to start when developing
an
> application... As I understand, can be used in 3 ways
>
> 1. As a Servlet framework with Turbine as the controller.
> 2 As a framework of useful code in your application.
> 3 As a Object-Relational Tool
It's all of these things.
>
>
> I would be most interested in a checklist for type 1 application, although
> others may need type 2 or type 3.
>
> I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF SOMEBODY COULD PUT TOGETHER THIS CHECKLIST.
The sample application demonstrates 1-3.
>
> really feel that it would help beginners like me. Without a tutorial,
> Turbine is very hard to learn. A checklist could at least be a temporary
> solution to the problem of not having a tutorial.
>
We do what we can in terms of documentation, we are all busy. I have put
out the offer before to people who need help when starting: if you try to
work your way through getting started and document the process I will
answer every last one of your questions. But I'm not going to do it for
you. I have plans to get the TDK docs up to scratch for the 2.2 release but
writing docs is many fold harder than writing the actual code, I find it
an enjoyable but difficult task.
I have made this offer, actually very recently, to people in the past who
have fervently bemoaned the state of the Turbine documention but they
always seem to quickly fade once they've solved their particular needs.
Are you willing to meet us halfway in producing a tutorial? I will
help and I'm sure Cam will help too, as a tutorial would be a much
appreciated addition.
I agree on one hand with the mentality that with every good piece
of software produced should be partnered with good documentation,
and I am the first the admit that the documenation for Turbine is
woefully lacking, but the reality is that in OpenSource it's difficult
to keep the docs up to date.
I know that you are just trying to figure things out, and it's not
easy. But the only way the documentation will improve is if
you do something about it.
Again I make the offer, if you pick a day on a weekend I can meet
you in the chat room and I will answer every one of your questions
while you battle your way through your first application.
The offer goes out to anyone starting with Turbine, otherwise the
tutorial documentation will come when it comes. If you don't want
to help us write, or are waiting for someone else to do it then you're
just going to have to be patient.
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jvanzyl@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Jason van Zyl <jv...@apache.org>.
John Menke wrote:
> Could somebody experienced with Turbine make an example application
> checklist that will give beginner's at least a list of suggested steps to
> perform?
>
> I have been trying to read everything I can about Turbine. I have
> downloaded the TDK I have read the documentation that comes with it. There
> appears to not be anything in terms of a sample application or tutorial.
There is a sample application, and the README_FIRST.txt file in the top
level directory explains how to make it.
> In
> absence of this could someone who is experienced with Turbine please suggest
> a course of action for building my a sample application.
Again, there is a sample application.
>
>
>
> WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR IS SORT OF A ROADMAP (Start here, do this, then do
> that....)
I will help you make a road map, I would be happy too, but I don't have time
right
now to do it for you. I intend on adding lots of documentation for the TDK but
it won't be in place until the 2.2 release of turbine. Any help documenting
the TDK for someone who is starting would help a lot of people.
>
>
> It's just that I don't have a good idea of where to start when developing an
> application... As I understand, can be used in 3 ways
>
> 1. As a Servlet framework with Turbine as the controller.
> 2 As a framework of useful code in your application.
> 3 As a Object-Relational Tool
It's all of these things.
>
>
> I would be most interested in a checklist for type 1 application, although
> others may need type 2 or type 3.
>
> I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF SOMEBODY COULD PUT TOGETHER THIS CHECKLIST.
The sample application demonstrates 1-3.
>
> really feel that it would help beginners like me. Without a tutorial,
> Turbine is very hard to learn. A checklist could at least be a temporary
> solution to the problem of not having a tutorial.
>
We do what we can in terms of documentation, we are all busy. I have put
out the offer before to people who need help when starting: if you try to
work your way through getting started and document the process I will
answer every last one of your questions. But I'm not going to do it for
you. I have plans to get the TDK docs up to scratch for the 2.2 release but
writing docs is many fold harder than writing the actual code, I find it
an enjoyable but difficult task.
I have made this offer, actually very recently, to people in the past who
have fervently bemoaned the state of the Turbine documention but they
always seem to quickly fade once they've solved their particular needs.
Are you willing to meet us halfway in producing a tutorial? I will
help and I'm sure Cam will help too, as a tutorial would be a much
appreciated addition.
I agree on one hand with the mentality that with every good piece
of software produced should be partnered with good documentation,
and I am the first the admit that the documenation for Turbine is
woefully lacking, but the reality is that in OpenSource it's difficult
to keep the docs up to date.
I know that you are just trying to figure things out, and it's not
easy. But the only way the documentation will improve is if
you do something about it.
Again I make the offer, if you pick a day on a weekend I can meet
you in the chat room and I will answer every one of your questions
while you battle your way through your first application.
The offer goes out to anyone starting with Turbine, otherwise the
tutorial documentation will come when it comes. If you don't want
to help us write, or are waiting for someone else to do it then you're
just going to have to be patient.
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jvanzyl@apache.org
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Re: In absence of tutorial how about a checklist?
Posted by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 4/22/01 5:17 PM, "John Menke" <jo...@eagleinfosystems.com> wrote:
>
> Could somebody experienced with Turbine make an example application
> checklist that will give beginner's at least a list of suggested steps to
> perform?
>
> I have been trying to read everything I can about Turbine. I have
> downloaded the TDK I have read the documentation that comes with it. There
> appears to not be anything in terms of a sample application or tutorial.
There are sample applications with the TDK. Not quite sure how you missed
them.
> It's just that I don't have a good idea of where to start when developing an
> application... As I understand, can be used in 3 ways
>
> 1. As a Servlet framework with Turbine as the controller.
Yes.
> 2 As a framework of useful code in your application.
Yes.
> 3 As a Object-Relational Tool
That is simply just using Torque.
> I would be most interested in a checklist for type 1 application, although
> others may need type 2 or type 3.
Yup.
> I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL IF SOMEBODY COULD PUT TOGETHER THIS CHECKLIST. I
> really feel that it would help beginners like me. Without a tutorial,
> Turbine is very hard to learn. A checklist could at least be a temporary
> solution to the problem of not having a tutorial.
"Creating your first Turbine application!"
<http://jakarta.apache.org/cvsweb/index.cgi/jakarta-turbine-tdk/xdocs/index.
xml?rev=1.9&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup>
-jon
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