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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> on 2005/01/28 16:54:08 UTC
Any support for migrating to JIRA?
I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
JIRA at my workplace.
Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
sean
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org>.
The big argument, IMO, for bugzilla is Jakarta Commons uses it and it
makes it easy to reassign bugs that users mark against Struts to the
appropriate commons project.
Don
Sean Schofield wrote:
> I would agree that the recent improvements in Bugzilla were definitely
> a step in the right direction. In particular I like how you can make
> an old attachment obsolete by adding a new one.
>
> JIRA is available free to open source projects so I don't consider
> using JIRA to be going against open source. I would also argue that
> JIRA is more than just a pretty interface. The functionality is a lot
> smoother.
>
> That being said I can understand why you guys want to keep supporting
> Bugzilla and stick with it. No worries. I was just wondering if
> anyone had considered it.
>
> sean
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600, Joe Germuska <Jo...@germuska.com> wrote:
>
>>Last time this came up, several committers expressed a preference for
>>using free software (Bugzilla), understanding that JIRA provides free
>>licenses to Open Source projects.
>>
>>I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to the
>>Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with it than I
>>was last time this came up.
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>
>>At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>
>>>I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
>>>moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
>>>use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
>>>JIRA at my workplace.
>>>
>>>Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
>>>Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
>>>to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
>>>
>>>sean
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>--
>>Joe Germuska
>>Joe@Germuska.com
>>http://blog.germuska.com
>>"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
>>
>
>
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:00:41 -0800 (PST), David Graham wrote:
>�I use Eclipse but I have heard good things about IDEA. �If we ever
>�meet in person maybe I can buy you a beer with some of the $500 I
>�saved not paying for IDEA ;-).
Not to worry, David. It's products like IDEA, JIRA, and Confluence that get me out of work on time. And as the commercial says:
"Having more time to spend with your family? --- Priceless!" :)
You know, twenty years ago, I was part of another software movement called "shareware". Back then, we bravely posted fully-functional applications to bulletin boards and disk libraries. (No Internet or CD ROMS for us! It was 384bps phone lines and 5-1/4" floppies!) If people wanted to send us money for our applications, we let them. We didn't have expiration technology back then. If someone didn't want to pay me for my stuff, they could keep using it, indefinitely, for free. But every week, there I was at the bank, depositing a stack of checks. :)
Maybe it's because so many people have voluntarily paid me for my work, that it doesn't bother me to voluntarily pay other people for theirs. Sure, there are free products that I could use instead. But, if there's another product I'd rather use, why shortchange myself? For me, it's not about free, it's about being the best.
If Struts wasn't the best framework available at any price, I wouldn't support it. But, because it is a great product, with a thriving community, I not only spend time here, but I even make modest cash donations to the ASF and SourceForge.
-Ted.
Postscript to all the lurkers out there:
Is shareware dead? Not quite. If you can't support organizations like the ASF and SourceForge with your time, we also accept PayPal :)
* http://apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Paypal
* http://sourceforge.net/donate/
Seriously, gang, bandwidth ain't free. ;)
-T.
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
I use Eclipse but I have heard good things about IDEA. If we ever meet in
person maybe I can buy you a beer with some of the $500 I saved not paying
for IDEA ;-).
Regarding the open source argument not being valid:
IMO, it's not the kind of position that is valid or invalid. It's my
personal preference to use free software while developing free software.
Being a preference obviously means I won't stand in the way if the
majority of people want to switch to a proprietary alternative. However,
it will move us one step further away from the larger free software
community that we belong to.
BTW, I get paid to write commercial software too so it's not that I
consider JIRA "evil".
David
--- Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> :) Does that include your IDE, David? :)
>
> :) Last I knew, you were an IDEA guy. :)
>
> (Another spectacular product that I'm happy to support with my own
> hard-earned dollars.)
>
> -Ted.
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:22:52 -0800 (PST), David Graham wrote:
> > Just to prevent confusion, I am using the term "free" as the FSF
> > defines it: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html. I am aware
> > that JIRA is provided at *no cost* to Apache but it is certainly
> > not free software.
> >
> > I have nothing against JIRA; it's probably a fine product. I just
> > find it more interesting to support other free software projects
> > while working on code at Apache.
> >
> > David
> >
> > --- Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I would agree that the recent improvements in Bugzilla were
> >> definitely a step in the right direction. In particular I like
> >> how you can make an old attachment obsolete by adding a new one.
> >>
> >> JIRA is available free to open source projects so I don't
> >> consider using JIRA to be going against open source. I would
> >> also argue that JIRA is more than just a pretty interface. The
> >> functionality is a lot smoother.
> >>
> >> That being said I can understand why you guys want to keep
> >> supporting Bugzilla and stick with it. No worries. I was just
> >> wondering if anyone had considered it.
> >>
> >> sean
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600, Joe Germuska
> >> <Jo...@germuska.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Last time this came up, several committers expressed a
> >>> preference for using free software (Bugzilla), understanding
> >>> that JIRA provides free licenses to Open Source projects.
> >>>
> >>> I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to
> >>> the Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with
> >>> it than I was last time this came up.
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
> >>>> I was just curious if any of the struts developers had
> >>>> thought about moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA
> >>>> on MyFaces and its in use for a lot of other Apache projects
> >>>> as well. We're also moving to JIRA at my workplace.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over
> >>>> Bugzilla. Just thought I would throw the idea out there.
> >>>> This message is *not* to be construed as an offer to
> >>>> volunteer to perform the migration :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> sean
>
>
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
:) Does that include your IDE, David? :)
:) Last I knew, you were an IDEA guy. :)
(Another spectacular product that I'm happy to support with my own hard-earned dollars.)
-Ted.
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:22:52 -0800 (PST), David Graham wrote:
>�Just to prevent confusion, I am using the term "free" as the FSF
>�defines it: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html. �I am aware
>�that JIRA is provided at *no cost* to Apache but it is certainly
>�not free software.
>
>�I have nothing against JIRA; it's probably a fine product. �I just
>�find it more interesting to support other free software projects
>�while working on code at Apache.
>
>�David
>
>�--- Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>�wrote:
>
>>�I would agree that the recent improvements in Bugzilla were
>>�definitely a step in the right direction. �In particular I like
>>�how you can make an old attachment obsolete by adding a new one.
>>
>>�JIRA is available free to open source projects so I don't
>>�consider using JIRA to be going against open source. �I would
>>�also argue that JIRA is more than just a pretty interface. �The
>>�functionality is a lot smoother.
>>
>>�That being said I can understand why you guys want to keep
>>�supporting Bugzilla and stick with it. �No worries. �I was just
>>�wondering if anyone had considered it.
>>
>>�sean
>>
>>
>>�On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600, Joe Germuska
>>�<Jo...@germuska.com>�wrote:
>>
>>>�Last time this came up, several committers expressed a
>>>�preference for using free software (Bugzilla), understanding
>>>�that JIRA provides free licenses to Open Source projects.
>>>
>>>�I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to
>>>�the Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with
>>>�it than I was last time this came up.
>>>
>>>�Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>�At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>>>�I was just curious if any of the struts developers had
>>>>�thought about moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? �We're using JIRA
>>>>�on MyFaces and its in use for a lot of other Apache projects
>>>>�as well. �We're also moving to JIRA at my workplace.
>>>>
>>>>�Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over
>>>>�Bugzilla. Just thought I would throw the idea out there.
>>>>�This message is *not* to be construed as an offer to
>>>>�volunteer to perform the migration :-)
>>>>
>>>>�sean
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Just to prevent confusion, I am using the term "free" as the FSF defines
it: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html. I am aware that JIRA is
provided at *no cost* to Apache but it is certainly not free software.
I have nothing against JIRA; it's probably a fine product. I just find it
more interesting to support other free software projects while working on
code at Apache.
David
--- Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would agree that the recent improvements in Bugzilla were definitely
> a step in the right direction. In particular I like how you can make
> an old attachment obsolete by adding a new one.
>
> JIRA is available free to open source projects so I don't consider
> using JIRA to be going against open source. I would also argue that
> JIRA is more than just a pretty interface. The functionality is a lot
> smoother.
>
> That being said I can understand why you guys want to keep supporting
> Bugzilla and stick with it. No worries. I was just wondering if
> anyone had considered it.
>
> sean
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600, Joe Germuska <Jo...@germuska.com>
> wrote:
> > Last time this came up, several committers expressed a preference for
> > using free software (Bugzilla), understanding that JIRA provides free
> > licenses to Open Source projects.
> >
> > I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to the
> > Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with it than I
> > was last time this came up.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
> > >I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
> > >moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
> > >use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
> > >JIRA at my workplace.
> > >
> > >Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
> > >Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
> > >to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
> > >
> > >sean
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joe Germuska
> > Joe@Germuska.com
> > http://blog.germuska.com
> > "Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
I would agree that the recent improvements in Bugzilla were definitely
a step in the right direction. In particular I like how you can make
an old attachment obsolete by adding a new one.
JIRA is available free to open source projects so I don't consider
using JIRA to be going against open source. I would also argue that
JIRA is more than just a pretty interface. The functionality is a lot
smoother.
That being said I can understand why you guys want to keep supporting
Bugzilla and stick with it. No worries. I was just wondering if
anyone had considered it.
sean
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0600, Joe Germuska <Jo...@germuska.com> wrote:
> Last time this came up, several committers expressed a preference for
> using free software (Bugzilla), understanding that JIRA provides free
> licenses to Open Source projects.
>
> I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to the
> Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with it than I
> was last time this came up.
>
> Joe
>
>
> At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
> >I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
> >moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
> >use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
> >JIRA at my workplace.
> >
> >Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
> >Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
> >to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
> >
> >sean
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
> --
> Joe Germuska
> Joe@Germuska.com
> http://blog.germuska.com
> "Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
>
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
Last time this came up, several committers expressed a preference for
using free software (Bugzilla), understanding that JIRA provides free
licenses to Open Source projects.
I think JIRA is great, but I also think recent improvements to the
Apache Bugzilla installation have made me much happier with it than I
was last time this came up.
Joe
At 10:54 AM -0500 1/28/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
>I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
>moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
>use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
>JIRA at my workplace.
>
>Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
>Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
>to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
>
>sean
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
> PS - I don't think the open-source argument is valid. I believe all of us here are paid to write
> software. Why should Atlassian be any different? They offer free licenses to open source
> projects, and provide the full source to customers (like me) who purchase their software.
> How many of us work for companies that do the same?
My thoughts exactly. Not all software can be free (that's how I earn
a living.) Free software needs to be able to compete with commercial
software. If the commercial offering is better, I will use the
commercial one. If the free software is roughly comparable to the
commercial software, yes we should support free software obviously.
IMO bugzilla cannot be considered comparable to JIRA. Obviously you
need to think about certain effects like open standards vs.
proprietary solutions, but in the case of bug tracking software, I
don't think this applies.
The point about linking to Jakarta is quite valid though. Perhaps
they will move to JIRA one day as well....
I didn't mean to start any trouble. There are good reasons not to do
this and we can all live with Bugzilla for now.
sean
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Bugzilla works fine and is free software while JIRA is not free. For me,
this takes much of the fun out of working on free software at Apache so I
am not too keen on switching. The feeling of using and supporting free
software is more important to me than a pretty UI.
David
--- Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought about
> moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? We're using JIRA on MyFaces and its in
> use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. We're also moving to
> JIRA at my workplace.
>
> Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
> Just thought I would throw the idea out there. This message is *not*
> to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the migration :-)
>
> sean
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Any support for migrating to JIRA?
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
I'd be very much in favor of switching to JIRA, except that, as Don mentioned, it's very convenient to trade tickets back and forth with Jakarta Commons.
I use JIRA everyday with my own work, as well as on other ASF projects, and it is very, very sweet.
But not as sweet as beaming tickets to Jakarta :(
-Ted.
PS - I don't think the open-source argument is valid. I believe all of us here are paid to write software. Why should Atlassian be any different? They offer free licenses to open source projects, and provide the full source to customers (like me) who purchase their software. How many of us work for companies that do the same?
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:54:08 -0500, Sean Schofield wrote:
>�I was just curious if any of the struts developers had thought
>�about moving from Bugzilla to JIRA? �We're using JIRA on MyFaces
>�and its in use for a lot of other Apache projects as well. �We're
>�also moving to JIRA at my workplace.
>
>�Anyways, I personally think its a vast improvement over Bugzilla.
>�Just thought I would throw the idea out there. �This message is *
>�not* to be construed as an offer to volunteer to perform the
>�migration :-)
>
>�sean
>
>�--------------------------------------------------------------------
>�- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org For
>�additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
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