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Posted to dev@airavata.apache.org by "Raminderjeet Singh (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2012/09/11 23:36:07 UTC
[jira] [Created] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic from
airavata client
Raminderjeet Singh created AIRAVATA-568:
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Summary: Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
Key: AIRAVATA-568
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
Project: Airavata
Issue Type: Improvement
Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Raminderjeet Singh (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13454053#comment-13454053 ]
Raminderjeet Singh commented on AIRAVATA-568:
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Yes, lets not confuse things by treating them as one. ExperimentID and topic are different and have a different use. We need to have both in API. Topic mean messaging topic where multiple services/workflow can post messages. We should not make our own assumption and restrict things in API. I am not still convinced with your argument and now believe that those assumption should be removed from API.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Suresh Marru (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13454048#comment-13454048 ]
Suresh Marru commented on AIRAVATA-568:
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The experiment id unique is only requirement for a registry. Keeping topic id unique is a firm requirement for orchestration system. Since the API and data system integration evolved in a way (which has been well discussed) the API is a unified entry into the system and external data systems will be integrated through provenance abstractions, it makes perfect sense to assume experiment id and topic id are handled identically. As for the use case, lets try to understand it like this, when we subit to a batch system on a cluster, we cannot expect to send the job id and expect the PBS server to honor it. Its the job of the client to maintain the correlation and its perfectly reasonable to assume that.
As for the use case, if it is with data systems like XMCCat, it was discussed at lengths previously and its agreed upon by every one thats its a bad idea to assume a data system unique id be expected by a workflow system to grant uniqueness. Workflow is only an instantiation and data is persistant. Lets not confuse with Airavata internal experiment id vs topic id. For external system integration like ODI, Airavata is a enactment system and the server issues a unique id for that instantiation. I still say the server accepting a unique id from client is a bad design choice irrespective of the state of API.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Raminderjeet Singh (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13454065#comment-13454065 ]
Raminderjeet Singh commented on AIRAVATA-568:
---------------------------------------------
What you are talking about should be handled using workflow instance id and that need to be unique for every run but not the topic id? Topic belongs to messaging system and we should not use that to provide uniqueness in orchestration system.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Suresh Marru (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13453448#comment-13453448 ]
Suresh Marru commented on AIRAVATA-568:
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What happens if two clients send the same topic? This will be a bad feature to support, rather we should recommend the clients to query the server to return a topic id. More over, the API should discourage having a separate topic id, the experiment id should be unique across a deployment and for all tracking purposes including event topic, we should start using the experiment id.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Suresh Marru (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13453996#comment-13453996 ]
Suresh Marru commented on AIRAVATA-568:
---------------------------------------
I would say thats too complicated to support interoperability with external execution systems. I would even argue, two airavata instances should also not check for uniqueness across them. Its not about default vs advanced option. My concerns are mainly, this is a bad design choice to let the clients send a unique id to a server which has serious implications if the id is not unique.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Raminderjeet Singh (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13453984#comment-13453984 ]
Raminderjeet Singh commented on AIRAVATA-568:
---------------------------------------------
There are cases where airavata is not the only system working, its working with other systems which take care of uniqueness of a run. Topic is treated as a experiment ID in out current implementation. I am talking about adding a method for advanced clients not changing current method.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Suresh Marru (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13454068#comment-13454068 ]
Suresh Marru commented on AIRAVATA-568:
---------------------------------------
Yes there is a discussion about all multiple ids' but lets confuse with the design complain I have. What ever ID it is, the server which has concerned with unique ness, issues that ID. So yes even though a topic is used for communication, its responsibility of the message broker to ensure its unique, so its responsible for generating and issuing a topic id and not the client. For Airavata case, since the deployment is bundled with all services, all of them are collectively issuing one unique id. If there is a need to have multiple id's we should discuss them, but still those multiple id's should be issued by servers which have to enforce uniqueness.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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[jira] [Commented] (AIRAVATA-568) Method to set messaging topic
from airavata client
Posted by "Raminderjeet Singh (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13454018#comment-13454018 ]
Raminderjeet Singh commented on AIRAVATA-568:
---------------------------------------------
i dont think its a bad design option. I can argue with a practical use case. I have a gateway use case where all the workflow run on same topic but uniqueness is handled using experimentID. Keep experiment id unique is required but not the topic. Experimentid and topic should be treated separately and need to be reflected in the API. I will appreciate if you look at AiravataClient code to give your design suggestions.
> Method to set messaging topic from airavata client
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: AIRAVATA-568
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AIRAVATA-568
> Project: Airavata
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Raminderjeet Singh
>
> These need to a method to set messaging topic from airavata API for advanced clients to sent the information
--
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