Re: Actions, tags, and the public timeline

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

Just bumping this up again, as I kind of forgot about it. Vassil, what
would this syntax to specify a tag or pool for a new message look
like? I assume it would be different for resend vs. messages generated
from feeds.

Maybe we can work out what the action command should look like and
then create a JIRA ticket for it.

Ethan

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:58 AM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I think the idea of specifying a pool for the results of an action is
>> good idea. We just need a new action "resend [pool] -- sends the
>> message to a particular pool"
>
> Not exactly. First of all, on the ESME specification or on the mailing
> list there was a specific requirement *not* to move a message from one
> pool to another automatically- only by a very explicit copy/paste by
> the user. Second, the messages from Atom/RSS are not "resent", there
> is an actor started which creates and sends them automatically.
>
> I had an idea in the past to specify a tag to apply on all messages
> created from a feed in order to be able to filter it. Later there was
> also the idea to be able to specify a pool, too. Maybe that's what you
> meant, and it's a great idea.
>

Re: Actions, tags, and the public timeline

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

>Can we send a message to more than one pool?

If I remember correctly a message can only be in one pool.  Based on
this restriction, it would only make sense to use the pool-linked
functionality for actions with messages that originate in non-pools
(for example, RSS feeds)

D.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I forgot about the way messages are handled when resending. I like
> newlines for adding pool and tag information to rss and atom actions.
>
> Everyone else agree that the "action" part of an action for atom or
> rss should look like this?:
>
> atom:http://the.address.com/to/my/feed.atom
> pool:My Pool
> tags:test,myfeed,address.com
>
> Can we send a message to more than one pool?
>
> Ethan
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Just bumping this up again, as I kind of forgot about it. Vassil, what
>>> would this syntax to specify a tag or pool for a new message look
>>> like? I assume it would be different for resend vs. messages generated
>>> from feeds.
>>
>> For an atom/RSS feed I imagine it could be specified with something
>> like "pool:mypool" or "tags:tag1,tag2", separated by
>> newline/whitespace/commas from the action definition
>> "atom:http://server.org/whatever", depending on how we want to
>> separate several tags (spaces, commas).
>>
>> For resending messages this is problematic- messages are by design
>> immutable, so we can't add/edit tags (this has been discussed in the
>> past). Resending to another pool is also a security problem, as is
>> explicitly indicated in the last design specification by Bill
>> Fernandez.
>>
>> The important thing to remember is that a message is saved only
>> *once*. A user's timeline consists only of references to messages, not
>> of copies of messages. Thus there's a problem when you edit a message,
>> because this will affect all users with this message in the timeline.
>> This causes consistency problems on many levels, which could result in
>> confusion for the users, undefined behavior to streaming clients when
>> an old message is edited, and severe performance problems.
>>
>> So in short, for Atom/RSS the answer is easy, for resending I don't
>> believe it will be implemented.
>>
>> Vassil
>>
>

Re: Actions, tags, and the public timeline

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

I forgot about the way messages are handled when resending. I like
newlines for adding pool and tag information to rss and atom actions.

Everyone else agree that the "action" part of an action for atom or
rss should look like this?:

atom:http://the.address.com/to/my/feed.atom
pool:My Pool
tags:test,myfeed,address.com

Can we send a message to more than one pool?

Ethan

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Just bumping this up again, as I kind of forgot about it. Vassil, what
>> would this syntax to specify a tag or pool for a new message look
>> like? I assume it would be different for resend vs. messages generated
>> from feeds.
>
> For an atom/RSS feed I imagine it could be specified with something
> like "pool:mypool" or "tags:tag1,tag2", separated by
> newline/whitespace/commas from the action definition
> "atom:http://server.org/whatever", depending on how we want to
> separate several tags (spaces, commas).
>
> For resending messages this is problematic- messages are by design
> immutable, so we can't add/edit tags (this has been discussed in the
> past). Resending to another pool is also a security problem, as is
> explicitly indicated in the last design specification by Bill
> Fernandez.
>
> The important thing to remember is that a message is saved only
> *once*. A user's timeline consists only of references to messages, not
> of copies of messages. Thus there's a problem when you edit a message,
> because this will affect all users with this message in the timeline.
> This causes consistency problems on many levels, which could result in
> confusion for the users, undefined behavior to streaming clients when
> an old message is edited, and severe performance problems.
>
> So in short, for Atom/RSS the answer is easy, for resending I don't
> believe it will be implemented.
>
> Vassil
>

Re: Actions, tags, and the public timeline

[Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>]

> Just bumping this up again, as I kind of forgot about it. Vassil, what
> would this syntax to specify a tag or pool for a new message look
> like? I assume it would be different for resend vs. messages generated
> from feeds.

For an atom/RSS feed I imagine it could be specified with something
like "pool:mypool" or "tags:tag1,tag2", separated by
newline/whitespace/commas from the action definition
"atom:http://server.org/whatever", depending on how we want to
separate several tags (spaces, commas).

For resending messages this is problematic- messages are by design
immutable, so we can't add/edit tags (this has been discussed in the
past). Resending to another pool is also a security problem, as is
explicitly indicated in the last design specification by Bill
Fernandez.

The important thing to remember is that a message is saved only
*once*. A user's timeline consists only of references to messages, not
of copies of messages. Thus there's a problem when you edit a message,
because this will affect all users with this message in the timeline.
This causes consistency problems on many levels, which could result in
confusion for the users, undefined behavior to streaming clients when
an old message is edited, and severe performance problems.

So in short, for Atom/RSS the answer is easy, for resending I don't
believe it will be implemented.

Vassil