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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> on 2005/01/12 16:35:12 UTC
Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Joe,
Sounds like you are moving right along with StrutsChain. I liked your
idea of moving the properties from WebActionContext into the base
ActionContext. I agree that those things would exist in any given
Struts environment. Also it would probably simplify things for the
user (they don't have to worry about what is this new WebActionContext
for and how do I use it).
My two cents anyways,
sean
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ot: Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Vic <vi...@friendvu.com>.
Sean Schofield wrote:
>JSF is really a complete application framework. It does pretty much
>everything Struts does (more or less) so I think that would make it a
>competitor of Struts.
>
>
Struts allways had competitors. Trubine, the one w/ a beaver logo (what
was that?). Now I can name a half a dozen realy good ones. Sooner or
later one will surpass Struts; and some feel that has happened already.
I do not thing anyone fears the death of Struts; that just means that a
lot of just sign up for some other list.
I am glad Struts is evolving.
JSF has it's one home page. So does Tapestry. So what if we start using
JSF? Right now I think JSF is not http://sandrasf.com/kiss (KISS). But I
spent a lot of time on JSF to decide that. I still follow JSF, from a
distance for now. For example the transcript on home page of JSF says
that JSF 2.0 migh emit other renders such as XUL. (My transalations...
it might emit JDNC XML). If that happens I will try to convert my
clients to JSF, but wait an see.
Someplace I read that 70% of Java devleopers do Struts. So what if that
goes to 2% or less? Or 95%? I make a choice based on my analysis,
becuase I sign the fixed bid contract to the client. It's not a
popularity contest.
--
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- help develop a community
My blog <http://www.sandrasf.com/adminBlog>
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
I would disagree that these other technologies do not compete directly
with Struts. For now, Shale is a Struts 2.x effort but Craig has made
it clear that he is prepared to break if off from Struts if the Struts
committers won't consider moving in that direction.
JSF is really a complete application framework. It does pretty much
everything Struts does (more or less) so I think that would make it a
competitor of Struts.
Anyways I definitely support Joe's efforts on this. Don't get me
wrong about that. I think Joe is right about things coming and going
in cycles and there is always competing projects for our attention.
Its just something to think about that's all. I've always supported
the idea of going forward with Struts 1.3 (Chain). After that point,
however, I think the committers, contributors and users alike should
make a decision on where to go from there.
sean
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:45:41 -0600, Vic <vi...@friendvu.com> wrote:
> Yes Sean I kind of disagree with you too. I think it's great that Struts
> is diverse and I hope it gets more so.
> My excuse is that I am working on JDNC a lot.
> I plan to integrate w/ Struts chain ... after it's released, so I do
> benefit from Joe's efforts; I just can't help him. I think it takes time
> to study the code and maybe write something sample to use it to see how
> it breaks. Some of this Servlet Api is too intricate for me, I mostly
> write user applications and don't go into RequestProcessor and such much.
> I do try to give back to O/S, but in this case.... as much as this
> benefits me...
>
> So in spirit, we are w/ you Joe, if moral support ads anything.
> THANKS!
>
> .V
>
> Sean Schofield wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >A comment on your lack of feedback. It occurs to me that this is one
> >of the unfortunate byproducts of the Struts development effort
> >starting to fracture. In addition to my day job, I'm currently
> >working on commons-chain and myfaces (plus JSF in general). That's
> >about all of the time I have. My time used to be allocated towards
> >Struts and commons-chain, but that is shifting.
> >
> >The problem is that instead of there being just one large group
> >working on Struts, that same group is starting to splinter into
> >working on Jericho, Shale, Struts 1.3, MyFaces, etc. I know this is
> >something that we'd all like to avoid because none of these worthy
> >projects gets enough attention.
> >
> >Please don't interpret this as a message directed at you. I'm just
> >using your comment about lack of feedback as a starting point for a
> >larger discussion. I think Struts Chain is a great idea and I will
> >try to help you when I can.
> >
> >I'm sure Craig would also like more feedback on his Shale work. I've
> >seen him committing tons of stuff and making a lot of posts but I
> >don't see much of a response from the Struts people either. So now he
> >and a few other developers are focused on that and shifting away from
> >Struts. (I know these people are not abandoning Struts but there are
> >only so many hours in a day.)
> >
> >This is not to discourage anybody who is working on any one of these
> >projects. All of them are worthwhile but none will reach their full
> >potential without a large group of developers committed to working on
> >them.
> >
> >My .02
> >
> >sean
> >
> >
> >ps. (Michael) the wiki is at: http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsChain
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> RiA-SoA w/JDNC <http://www.SandraSF.com> forums
> - help develop a community
> My blog <http://www.sandrasf.com/adminBlog>
>
>
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Vic <vi...@friendvu.com>.
Yes Sean I kind of disagree with you too. I think it's great that Struts
is diverse and I hope it gets more so.
My excuse is that I am working on JDNC a lot.
I plan to integrate w/ Struts chain ... after it's released, so I do
benefit from Joe's efforts; I just can't help him. I think it takes time
to study the code and maybe write something sample to use it to see how
it breaks. Some of this Servlet Api is too intricate for me, I mostly
write user applications and don't go into RequestProcessor and such much.
I do try to give back to O/S, but in this case.... as much as this
benefits me...
So in spirit, we are w/ you Joe, if moral support ads anything.
THANKS!
.V
Sean Schofield wrote:
>Joe,
>
>A comment on your lack of feedback. It occurs to me that this is one
>of the unfortunate byproducts of the Struts development effort
>starting to fracture. In addition to my day job, I'm currently
>working on commons-chain and myfaces (plus JSF in general). That's
>about all of the time I have. My time used to be allocated towards
>Struts and commons-chain, but that is shifting.
>
>The problem is that instead of there being just one large group
>working on Struts, that same group is starting to splinter into
>working on Jericho, Shale, Struts 1.3, MyFaces, etc. I know this is
>something that we'd all like to avoid because none of these worthy
>projects gets enough attention.
>
>Please don't interpret this as a message directed at you. I'm just
>using your comment about lack of feedback as a starting point for a
>larger discussion. I think Struts Chain is a great idea and I will
>try to help you when I can.
>
>I'm sure Craig would also like more feedback on his Shale work. I've
>seen him committing tons of stuff and making a lot of posts but I
>don't see much of a response from the Struts people either. So now he
>and a few other developers are focused on that and shifting away from
>Struts. (I know these people are not abandoning Struts but there are
>only so many hours in a day.)
>
>This is not to discourage anybody who is working on any one of these
>projects. All of them are worthwhile but none will reach their full
>potential without a large group of developers committed to working on
>them.
>
>My .02
>
>sean
>
>
>ps. (Michael) the wiki is at: http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsChain
>
>
--
RiA-SoA w/JDNC <http://www.SandraSF.com> forums
- help develop a community
My blog <http://www.sandrasf.com/adminBlog>
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
>The problem is that instead of there being just one large group
>working on Struts, that same group is starting to splinter into
>working on Jericho, Shale, Struts 1.3, MyFaces, etc. I know this is
>something that we'd all like to avoid because none of these worthy
>projects gets enough attention.
Your point about attention being spread thinly is well taken, but I
wouldn't say it's something that we'd like to avoid. None of those
compete so directly that I think it makes sense to try to persuade
people to shift focus to a single common target, even though you are
correct that each may be taking attention away.
Of course, the other thing is that there's no cap on who is permitted
to pay attention or offer opinions on these things. Perhaps some new
folks will be stimulated by some of these discussions and jump in.
Certainly, the bar to reviewing some code is low.
But having been one who's disappeared for weeks or months from the
open source lists, I understand that it's cyclical. That doesn't
stop my cravings!
Joe
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
Joe,
A comment on your lack of feedback. It occurs to me that this is one
of the unfortunate byproducts of the Struts development effort
starting to fracture. In addition to my day job, I'm currently
working on commons-chain and myfaces (plus JSF in general). That's
about all of the time I have. My time used to be allocated towards
Struts and commons-chain, but that is shifting.
The problem is that instead of there being just one large group
working on Struts, that same group is starting to splinter into
working on Jericho, Shale, Struts 1.3, MyFaces, etc. I know this is
something that we'd all like to avoid because none of these worthy
projects gets enough attention.
Please don't interpret this as a message directed at you. I'm just
using your comment about lack of feedback as a starting point for a
larger discussion. I think Struts Chain is a great idea and I will
try to help you when I can.
I'm sure Craig would also like more feedback on his Shale work. I've
seen him committing tons of stuff and making a lot of posts but I
don't see much of a response from the Struts people either. So now he
and a few other developers are focused on that and shifting away from
Struts. (I know these people are not abandoning Struts but there are
only so many hours in a day.)
This is not to discourage anybody who is working on any one of these
projects. All of them are worthwhile but none will reach their full
potential without a large group of developers committed to working on
them.
My .02
sean
ps. (Michael) the wiki is at: http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsChain
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
At 12:10 PM -0600 1/12/05, Michael Rasmussen wrote:
>Just curious, where is this specific wiki page? I couldn't find a
>link to it from the main wiki page.
http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsChain
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Michael Rasmussen <ra...@gmail.com>.
Just curious, where is this specific wiki page? I couldn't find a
link to it from the main wiki page.
Michael
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:44:54 -0600, Joe Germuska <Jo...@germuska.com> wrote:
> At 10:35 AM -0500 1/12/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
> >Joe,
> >
> >Sounds like you are moving right along with StrutsChain. I liked your
> >idea of moving the properties from WebActionContext into the base
> >ActionContext. I agree that those things would exist in any given
> >Struts environment. Also it would probably simplify things for the
> >user (they don't have to worry about what is this new WebActionContext
> >for and how do I use it).
> >
> >My two cents anyways,
>
> Much appreciated -- I've been craving some comments ;-)
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Germuska
> Joe@Germuska.com
> http://blog.germuska.com
> "Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
>
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>
>
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Re: Comment on StrutsChain Wiki
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
At 10:35 AM -0500 1/12/05, Sean Schofield wrote:
>Joe,
>
>Sounds like you are moving right along with StrutsChain. I liked your
>idea of moving the properties from WebActionContext into the base
>ActionContext. I agree that those things would exist in any given
>Struts environment. Also it would probably simplify things for the
>user (they don't have to worry about what is this new WebActionContext
>for and how do I use it).
>
>My two cents anyways,
Much appreciated -- I've been craving some comments ;-)
Joe
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
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