Fwd: [Contact] Media question

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

The ASF was asked to comment on the move of the project to the Attic.
The below is what was sent.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [Contact] Media question
> To: Serdar Yegulalp <se...@genjipress.com>
> 
> No worries. Here it is again.
> 
> One of the core goals of Apache projects is to create a healthy and
> viable community around a project; This implies a community dedicated
> to the continued growth of the code and a project which values and
> abides by the tenets of "the Apache Way." When a project's activity
> level decrease so much that commits to the project become almost
> non-existant, or it is hard to muster the required 3 +1 votes for
> patch acceptance and releases, it becomes obvious that the project
> had reached its end-of-life.
> 
> The Apache C++ Standard Library was given numerous opportunities
> to "reboot" itself and re-energize the community, but the sad fact
> is that it was never able to accomplish it. We understand the ire
> of Christian Bergström, but it indicates his unfamiliarity with
> Apache and Apache projects and how they are run and managed, as
> well as his confusion over what the Chair of an Apache project
> actually does. If there was still potential in the project,
> then that would have been clearly seen over the last several
> months, but as the mailing list and code repo logs show, there
> was no activity of merit at all for a long, long time, and
> Mr Bergström certainly had plenty of opportunity to provide
> some evidence of that potential; even some code commits from
> him and others would have been a factor.
> 
> And so, after some discussion at the Apache board level, the following
> was sent to the project:
> 
>    At this month's board meeting, a resolution was passed to move Apache C++ Standard Library to the Attic, due to inactivity.
> 
>    The Attic home page [1] contains some details about its purpose - it is the destination for Apache projects that can no longer provide oversight or muster votes for a release. It isn't a reflection on the contributors or the codebase, and is intended to be non-impacting to users.
> 
>    Please let us know if you have any questions or comments, or if you are available to work with the Attic to help with the transition of resources.
> 
> 
> On Aug 6, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Serdar Yegulalp <se...@genjipress.com> wrote:
> 
>> I don't believe I did, my apologies if it got lost in the shuffle.
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:jim@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 8:03 AM
>>> To: Serdar Yegulalp
>>> Subject: Re: [Contact] Media question
>>> 
>>> Ddi you get my response?
>>> 
>>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Serdar Yegulalp <se...@genjipress.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi there - I just wanted to check back in and see if there was any
>> progress
>>>> on this. I'll need to have an answer by sometime tomorrow. (I can also
>> have
>>>> an answer in the coming week, but I'd prefer to have it sooner rather
>> than
>>>> later.)
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Serdar Yegulalp [mailto:serdar@genjipress.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:11 AM
>>>>> To: 'Jim Jagielski'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Contact] Media question
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sure thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Earlier in July, a resolution was passed to move the Apache C++
>> Standard
>>>>> Library project to the Attic, as per discussion on the official mailing
>>>> list
>>>>> 
>>>> (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/stdcxx-
>>> dev/201307.mbox/%3C0F1B5FEB
>>>> -
>>>>> 9312-44CA-96CF-B586B8CE6BA4%40apache.org%3E). This raised some ire on
>> the
>>>>> part of Christian Bergström, who had offered to take over as chair of
>> the
>>>>> project and claimed he still saw potential in it. I was interested in
>>>> getting
>>>>> some official word from the Apache side as to the reasons behind these
>>>>> decisions.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:jim@apache.org]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 9:55 AM
>>>>>> To: Serdar Yegulalp
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Contact] Media question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello Serdar,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How would you like to proceed? An Email exchange is likely the easiest
>>>>>> way...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:27 PM, Sally Khudairi <sa...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello, Serdar --following up on your request, it's my pleasure to
>>>>>>> introduce
>>>>>> you to Jim Jagielski, Vice President of the Apache C++ Standard
>>>>>> Library Project.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm copying Jim here so you can connect directly regarding next
>> steps.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance, Jim, for helping Serdar!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Sally
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [From the mobile; kindly excuse spelling/spacing/auto-correct
>>>>>>> anomalies]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Serdar Yegulalp" <se...@genjipress.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'Sally Khudairi'" <sk...@apache.org>, <pr...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Contact] Media question
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, Jul 30, 2013 12:50 PM
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd like to secure a comment by the end of this week, or the
>>>>>>> beginning of next week. I may also have some follow-up questions, so
>>>>>>> by the end of this week would be ideal to give me time to respond.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Sally Khudairi [mailto:sk@apache.org]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:47 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Serdar Yegulalp; press@apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Contact] Media question
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hello, Serdar --thank you for your message.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I will be happy to secure an Apache spokesperson for you. What is
>>>>>>>> your deadline?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>> Sally Khudairi
>>>>>>>> VP Marketing & Publicity
>>>>>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> = = = = =
>>>>>>>> vox +1 617 921 8656
>>>>>>>> aux +1 917 725 2133
>>>>>>>> skype sallykhudairi
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>>> From: Serdar Yegulalp <se...@genjipress.com>
>>>>>>>> To: press@apache.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013, 9:56
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Contact] Media question
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My name is Serdar Yegulalp and I'm interested in seeking comment
>>>>>>>> from spokespeople at the Apache Software Foundation about their
>>>>>>>> recent
>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>> to end the development of the Apache C++ Standard Library (stdcxx)
>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>> There was apparently some discussion of having the project
>>>>>>>> stewarded by a new chair, but the decision was made instead to end
>>>>>>>> the project. I'd be interested in speaking with folks at the ASF
>>>>>>>> who are qualified to comment
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> * * * * *
>>>>>>>> Serdar Yegulalp
>>>>>>>> www.genjipress.com
>>>>>>>> serdar@genjipress.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My problems have become social rather than musical.
>>>>>>>> -- John Cage, composer
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Contact] Media question

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:50 AM, C. Bergström <cb...@pathscale.com> wrote:
> 
> The Apache way didn't work for this project and instead of trying to think outside the box... Some passionate people (primarily you?) decided it was better to close it.

If the Apache way didn't work for this project then the *only*
option was to stop it from (trying to be) an Apache project.
That happens. Some projects just aren't suited to be under
the Apache umbrella, for a variety of reasons, and that's OK.
The great thing about open source, and especially the ALv2,
is that even though the project didn't work an as Apache project,
there is nothing preventing anyone from taking the code and
forking it someplace where it could work (possibly).

Since you feel so passionately about it, I look forward to seeing
your fork of it and the community and project you will build around
it.

And no, I didn't want my name in the press so much. The ASF
was sought out; we didn't seek out the press. When the request
came in, I was the logical choice to respond and Sally forwarded
the request to me.

You seem to be interested in spinning a story of behind the
scenes drama and intrigue regarding all this. There is none.
The truth is sometimes just boring...

Re: Fwd: [Contact] Media question

["C. Bergström" <cb...@pathscale.com>]

On 08/ 6/13 09:30 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> The ASF was asked to comment on the move of the project to the Attic.
> The below is what was sent.

Wtf Jim. Are you trying to be a troll now? If you wanted your name in 
the press so badly let them publish it. Why are you even putting my name 
on this. I'm interested in open source, not open bullshit. I declined 
media comments and let this go. Please revise your statement to leave me 
out of it. (In fact I referred people to comment who would be much more 
likely to have something positive to say)

The Apache way didn't work for this project and instead of trying to 
think outside the box... Some passionate people (primarily you?) decided 
it was better to close it. (It's no secret you've wanted to do this for 
a long time and why you intentionally pissed off the previous PMC.) 
While STDCXX at Apache has no future it's still maintained by multiple 
corporations. (Who are at least willing to discuss collaborating.)

Will you hide behind private board meetings or can some redacted ‎ 
version of the minutes be released? /* I don't personally care, but 
maybe the press (Serdar) is interested */