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Posted to community@apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2004/02/13 07:19:40 UTC
Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
See: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3312091
Patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtm
l/search-adv.htm&r=9&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=Microsoft.ASNM.&OS=AN/Microsoft&
RS=AN/Microsoft
Does anyone have any idea how this would effect Ant, Maven, Jelly, JSP and
other technologies that use XML to describe scripting?
For that matter, would James' use of XML to configure matchers and mailets
into a mail application be considered scripting? We have posted examples of
using Sieve scripts within an XML CDATA block.
--- Noel
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Re: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Friday, February 13, 2004 6:28 PM +1100 Conor MacNeill
<co...@cortexebusiness.com.au> wrote:
> It is hard to see Ant being affected as its publication precedes the filing
> date for the patent, if that is relevant. Not sure about the other projects.
FWIW, in the US, it is first to invent not first to file.
So, if you want to challenge this patent, you need to produce prior work
dating before their invention date. -- justin
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Re: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@nifty.com>.
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:08:59 +0000
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> software patents encourage innovation? don't make me laugh!
> <bitter-laughter>hahaha</bitter-laughter>
Let's laugh! Join in the laughter! .. singing "Yellow *Submarine*" :)
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E-mail: tetsuya@apache.org http://www.terra-intl.com/
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Re: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
On 13 Feb 2004, at 07:28, Conor MacNeill wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:19:40 -0500, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> See: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3312091
>>
>> Patent:
>> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/
>> netahtm
>> l/search-adv.htm&r=9&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=Microsoft.ASNM.&OS=AN/
>> Microsoft&
>> RS=AN/Microsoft
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea how this would effect Ant, Maven, Jelly,
>> JSP and
>> other technologies that use XML to describe scripting?
>>
>> For that matter, would James' use of XML to configure matchers and
>> mailets
>> into a mail application be considered scripting? We have posted
>> examples of
>> using Sieve scripts within an XML CDATA block.
>
> It is hard to see Ant being affected as its publication precedes the
> filing date for the patent, if that is relevant. Not sure about the
> other projects.
here's the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/
netahtml/search-
adv.htm&r=9&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=Microsoft.ASNM.&OS=AN/
Microsoft&RS=AN/Microsoft
ant is not really immune. patent law is stacked towards the patent
holder. even if ant does not infringe, FUD about ant's file format
would be enough to send shivers through a lot of companies using ant.
the only way to stop the FUD would be to find a way to challenge the
patent.
IMHO (with the usual i'm not a lawyer stuff)
it seems to me to be a patent about a particular file format (a class
of xml documents). it's ant builds scripts which include calls to
scripting languages which may become patent encumbered. if this is the
case, then it's the date that ant introduced the particular tasks that
would be important.
could we think asking the US patent office to reconsider the patent
application on the following basis:
1. prior art (ant - so long as ant supported scripting in other
languages before 2000)
2. it's very, very, very obvious (using an attribute to describe which
scripting language should be executed? that's something that even an
absolute novice would have thought up when presented with the problem!)
this is the tactic being used by the W3C and appears to be having a
good degree of success at raising awareness of the problem. there is a
(growing) chance that the US legislature may well look at addressing
this issue so long that enough good example of harm can be provided.
software patents encourage innovation? don't make me laugh!
<bitter-laughter>hahaha</bitter-laughter>
- robert
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Re: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by Conor MacNeill <co...@cortexebusiness.com.au>.
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:19:40 -0500, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com>
wrote:
>
> See: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3312091
>
> Patent:
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtm
> l/search-adv.htm&r=9&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=Microsoft.ASNM.&OS=AN/Microsoft&
> RS=AN/Microsoft
>
> Does anyone have any idea how this would effect Ant, Maven, Jelly, JSP
> and
> other technologies that use XML to describe scripting?
>
> For that matter, would James' use of XML to configure matchers and
> mailets
> into a mail application be considered scripting? We have posted
> examples of
> using Sieve scripts within an XML CDATA block.
It is hard to see Ant being affected as its publication precedes the
filing date for the patent, if that is relevant. Not sure about the other
projects.
The patent seems pretty silly to me. I would argue that it fails even the
most basic novelty test for a patent, but IANAL, of course. Also the
patent seems to be narrowly focused as it mainly seems to cover "a method
for facilitating the identification and selection of the one or more
scripts for execution" IOW, collecting scripts into an XML file as opposed
to using XML as a scripting system.
Ant's <script> task, however, would seem to be in the same ballpark - a
system for having scripts in different languages in an XML file (in this
case an Ant build file). The original CVS commit for the script task was
Revision 1.1 - (download), view (text) (markup) (annotate) - [select for
diffs]
Sun Mar 19 03:35:48 2000 UTC (3 years, 10 months ago) by rubys
which also precedes the filing date for the patent so I guess that might
qualify as prior art. Who knows?
Conor
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RE: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> Doesn't prior art invalidate such patents?
> "Systems, methods and data structures for encompassing scripts written
> in one or more scripting languages in a single file" does not sound
> *that* innovative here ;-)
Nothing about it sounds innovative. In terms of prior art, what about
http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-XFDL from 1998?
The USPTO is turning patent filing into a race to patent the obvious any
time a new format or medium comes along. A early comment by the judge in
the Eolas v Microsoft case was that the prior art related to LAN
technologies, and Eolas' technology was for the Internet.
--- Noel
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Re: Microsoft patents XML based script automation?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Vendredi, 13 fév 2004, à 07:19 Europe/Zurich, Noel J. Bergman a
écrit :
> See: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3312091
> ...
> Does anyone have any idea how this would effect Ant, Maven, Jelly, JSP
> and
> other technologies that use XML to describe scripting?...
Doesn't prior art invalidate such patents?
"Systems, methods and data structures for encompassing scripts written
in one or more scripting languages in a single file" does not sound
*that* innovative here ;-)
-Bertrand
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