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Posted to user@ofbiz.apache.org by David Shere <ds...@steelerubber.com> on 2007/09/18 20:46:21 UTC
Perst
I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
--
David Shere
Information Technology Services
Steele Rubber Products
www.SteeleRubber.com
Re: Perst
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
This is what the Entity Engine is all about : http://ofbiz.apache.org/docs/entity.html
Jacques
De : "David Shere" <ds...@steelerubber.com>
> The ad I'm looking at says:
>
> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases must
> translate them into another format. This object-relational mapping
> (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>
> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores Java
> objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and performance, and a
> smaller footprint."
>
> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>
> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as the
> object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>
> David E Jones wrote:
> >
> > If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
> > relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and relational
> > database. These two are VERY different so no, you couldn't use it with
> > OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with JDBC driver) built on the
> > object database.
> >
> > For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer science
> > to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible resources on the
> > net (just old textbooks for me...).
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > Adrian Crum wrote:
> >> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
> >> features are avoided.
> >>
> >> -Adrian
> >>
> >> David Shere wrote:
> >>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
> >>> objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
> >>
> >
>
> --
> David Shere
> Information Technology Services
> Steele Rubber Products
> www.SteeleRubber.com
>
Re: Perst
Posted by Tim Ruppert <ti...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
No, but neither of them is what OFBiz is and would require massive
amounts of work and large architectural changes to get integrated.
So, in all likelihood, Perst will probably never be a part of OFBiz.
Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595
On Sep 19, 2007, at 6:14 AM, David Shere wrote:
> The ad I'm looking at says:
>
> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases
> must translate them into another format. This object-relational
> mapping (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>
> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores
> Java objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and
> performance, and a smaller footprint."
>
> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>
> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as
> the object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not
>> a relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and
>> relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you
>> couldn't use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with
>> JDBC driver) built on the object database.
>> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer
>> science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible
>> resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
>> -David
>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>>> features are avoided.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as
>>>> Java objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>>
>
> --
> David Shere
> Information Technology Services
> Steele Rubber Products
> www.SteeleRubber.com
>
Re: Perst
Posted by Jonathon -- Improov <jo...@improov.com>.
> Performance for "query" style interactions is generally worse for object
> databases
Agreed.
> though looking up related data to an object is generally better, but not by
> much
Really? I thought it was faster by quite a bit. But I think you could be right. With indices in
RDBMSes, looking up related objects won't be slow at all.
The show-stopper with object databases could be the querying. It's very very fast to look up one
object, plus all of that object's children (related entities). However, it's a real pain to scan
through several objects and filter them through a series of conditions. Maybe, think of RDBMS data
structure like the quick and fine-grained RISC instructions, as opposed to the CISC ones.
Or maybe it's just that object databases haven't seen much optimizations yet.
RDBMSes are wickedly optimized by now, IMO.
Jonathon
David E Jones wrote:
>
> Performance for "query" style interactions is generally worse for object
> databases (though looking up related data to an object is generally
> better, but not by much), which is one of the reasons they don't work
> well for many business applications and have not really caught on as
> much even thought they have been around for like 30 years or something.
>
> -David
>
>
> Adrian Crum wrote:
>> I agree with David. I can't imagine any reason why one would trade in
>> the relational model for an OO one. If OFBiz's performance is an
>> issue, then maybe you should invest in a better database or faster
>> hardware.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually no, the Entity Engine never does object-relational mapping.
>>> There is never a mapping to an object form for data structures in
>>> OFBiz. The is the whole point of how the entity engine, service
>>> engine, form widget and other related elements are designed.
>>>
>>> OR mapping is a waste of time, so we use relational data structures
>>> top to bottom and have tools to make that easier.
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>
>>>> The ad I'm looking at says:
>>>>
>>>> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases
>>>> must translate them into another format. This object-relational
>>>> mapping (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>>>>
>>>> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores
>>>> Java objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and
>>>> performance, and a smaller footprint."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>>>>
>>>> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as
>>>> the object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
>>>>> relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and
>>>>> relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you
>>>>> couldn't use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with
>>>>> JDBC driver) built on the object database.
>>>>>
>>>>> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer
>>>>> science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible
>>>>> resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
>>>>>
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>>>>>> features are avoided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as
>>>>>>> Java objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Perst
Posted by David E Jones <jo...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Performance for "query" style interactions is generally worse for object databases (though looking up related data to an object is generally better, but not by much), which is one of the reasons they don't work well for many business applications and have not really caught on as much even thought they have been around for like 30 years or something.
-David
Adrian Crum wrote:
> I agree with David. I can't imagine any reason why one would trade in
> the relational model for an OO one. If OFBiz's performance is an issue,
> then maybe you should invest in a better database or faster hardware.
>
> -Adrian
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>> Actually no, the Entity Engine never does object-relational mapping.
>> There is never a mapping to an object form for data structures in
>> OFBiz. The is the whole point of how the entity engine, service
>> engine, form widget and other related elements are designed.
>>
>> OR mapping is a waste of time, so we use relational data structures
>> top to bottom and have tools to make that easier.
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> David Shere wrote:
>>
>>> The ad I'm looking at says:
>>>
>>> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases
>>> must translate them into another format. This object-relational
>>> mapping (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>>>
>>> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores
>>> Java objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and performance,
>>> and a smaller footprint."
>>>
>>> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>>>
>>> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as the
>>> object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>>>
>>> David E Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
>>>> relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and
>>>> relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you
>>>> couldn't use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with
>>>> JDBC driver) built on the object database.
>>>>
>>>> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer
>>>> science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible
>>>> resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
>>>>
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>>>>> features are avoided.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as
>>>>>> Java objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Perst
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@hlmksw.com>.
I agree with David. I can't imagine any reason why one would trade in the relational model for an OO
one. If OFBiz's performance is an issue, then maybe you should invest in a better database or faster
hardware.
-Adrian
David E Jones wrote:
>
> Actually no, the Entity Engine never does object-relational mapping.
> There is never a mapping to an object form for data structures in OFBiz.
> The is the whole point of how the entity engine, service engine, form
> widget and other related elements are designed.
>
> OR mapping is a waste of time, so we use relational data structures top
> to bottom and have tools to make that easier.
>
> -David
>
>
> David Shere wrote:
>
>> The ad I'm looking at says:
>>
>> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases
>> must translate them into another format. This object-relational
>> mapping (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>>
>> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores
>> Java objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and performance,
>> and a smaller footprint."
>>
>> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>>
>> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as the
>> object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>>
>> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
>>> relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and
>>> relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you couldn't
>>> use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with JDBC driver)
>>> built on the object database.
>>>
>>> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer
>>> science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible
>>> resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
>>>
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>
>>>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>>>> features are avoided.
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as
>>>>> Java objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Perst
Posted by David E Jones <jo...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Actually no, the Entity Engine never does object-relational mapping. There is never a mapping to an object form for data structures in OFBiz. The is the whole point of how the entity engine, service engine, form widget and other related elements are designed.
OR mapping is a waste of time, so we use relational data structures top to bottom and have tools to make that easier.
-David
David Shere wrote:
> The ad I'm looking at says:
>
> "To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases must
> translate them into another format. This object-relational mapping
> (ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
>
> "McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores Java
> objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and performance, and a
> smaller footprint."
>
> http://www.mcobject.com/perst
>
> Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as the
> object-relational database this ad is talking about?
>
> David E Jones wrote:
>>
>> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
>> relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and
>> relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you couldn't
>> use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with JDBC driver)
>> built on the object database.
>>
>> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer
>> science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible
>> resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
>>
>> -David
>>
>>
>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>>> features are avoided.
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> David Shere wrote:
>>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
>>>> objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>>
>>
>
Re: Perst
Posted by David Shere <ds...@steelerubber.com>.
The ad I'm looking at says:
"To store Java objects, relational and object-relational databases must
translate them into another format. This object-relational mapping
(ORM) is a drag on performance and boosts storage demands.
"McObject's Perst, as an all-Java, object-oriented database, stores Java
objects as Java objects, for greater efficiency and performance, and a
smaller footprint."
http://www.mcobject.com/perst
Is the relational data model you're talking about not the same as the
object-relational database this ad is talking about?
David E Jones wrote:
>
> If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a
> relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and relational
> database. These two are VERY different so no, you couldn't use it with
> OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with JDBC driver) built on the
> object database.
>
> For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer science
> to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible resources on the
> net (just old textbooks for me...).
>
> -David
>
>
> Adrian Crum wrote:
>> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
>> features are avoided.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> David Shere wrote:
>>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
>>> objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>>
>
--
David Shere
Information Technology Services
Steele Rubber Products
www.SteeleRubber.com
Re: Perst
Posted by David E Jones <jo...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
If it persists Java objects then it is an object database and not a relational one. OFBiz is built on a relational data model and relational database. These two are VERY different so no, you couldn't use it with OFBiz unless it has a relational layer (with JDBC driver) built on the object database.
For anyone curious this is an interesting little bit of computer science to read about, but I don't know of any good, accessible resources on the net (just old textbooks for me...).
-David
Adrian Crum wrote:
> OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific
> features are avoided.
>
> -Adrian
>
> David Shere wrote:
>> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
>> objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?
>
Re: Perst
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@hlmksw.com>.
OFBiz attempts to be database agnostic. Database vendor specific features are avoided.
-Adrian
David Shere wrote:
> I've read about this Perst database that stores Java objects as Java
> objects. Has there been any talk about Ofbiz using this?