RE: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Alan Gerhard <al...@gercom.com>]

Stefano -

These are all very good examples of why James needs to review it's current
condition and make some hard decisions regarding overall project structure,
design and ultimate direction James should be heading ...

You should have been answered in some form or another as to your posts and
questions.
The only excuse you will be given is lack of time ... although true, is
unacceptable.

The things you bring up need to be fixed and but I am not sure what the best
way to accomplish this can be.

- Alan



> From: Stefano Bagnara
> I asked a question some weeks ago on the server-dev about ESMTP and
> ESMTP-DSN support. I'm planning to implement it and I asked
> information
> about the status of the project and better way to proceed. No answers.
>
> I posted a few (5) issue in the james jira: no comments, no
> assignments, no priorities.
>
> The only way I found is to create my own local repository and to work on
my
> own branch: I cannot rely on a project that will not incorporate bug
> fixes/patches I submitted on the next version.
>
> That's sad because I'm relying on james and I would really
> love to see some
> more changes in the SVN and not only a few mailet in a year.

> For example the bug I found in the Fetchmail module of the
> 2.2.0 suggests me
> that NO ONE is using the remote-address recognition
> (configured by default?)
> because it currently reject all mail.
>
> How much people rely on the current stable james? How many of
> them are java
> developers?
> When I see James-NG, James-HA (on sourceforge), I see that
> I'm starting with
> a local branch of james I understand that current ASF model
> doesn't work for
> james or current ASF members coordinating james did not
> understand the ASF
> model.
>
> And again:
> > James is not idle - there is a tremendous amount of work going on.
>
> If it is NOT IDLE can you provide more information on what
> it's going on and
> when?
> As a developer relying on james I'm really interested in this
> but the james
> homepage only reports random quotes that will probably never happen.
>



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Re: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Stefano Bagnara <io...@bago.org>]

> - Noel for the past 15(?) months has been working on merging 
> those changes into MAIN for stable Avalon releases as a 
> possible 3.0 release. 

Can someone explain what are the differences between the 2_1_fcs and the
trunk branches?
I hear Noel talking about merging but I don't know what are the main
differences between the 2 branches.
As said before I'm patching various classes from the 2_1_fcs and I would
like to know I'm working on the right branch.

> I have no excuses, only reasons.  My reason is that I don't 
> know or care about what he posted.  If he wants to 
> contribute, people are always welcome.  Nothing in his post 
> struck me as something I needed to respond to.

The ASF style is that contributor contribute code/issues following the
roadmap/tracker and then committer review this items and apply the code.
I see a lack of committer works. Probably you should make a call for new
committers on the dev list if current committers "don't care" about what
contributors do.

> I post the same email every month or two when someone asks 
> about the state of James.  There is not much development, we 
> try to answer plenty of support questions, put patches into 
> JIRA, we want to move away from Avalon but that is not 
> solved, and volunteers are always welcome to help.  What else 
> would you like clarified?

"volunteers are always welcome to help": how?
I'd really like to help but it seems there is a need for coordination and
committers.

Stefano


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RE: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Alan Gerhard <al...@gercom.com>]

It's late and I am not being clear.
Everything goes in stages and right now I am not able to get my arms around
the direction we are going.

As a User and former contributor to James, I have an interest in seeing
James realize it's potential. I have posted three times now questions
directed to the James PMC to give some indication of a formal development
plan for James.

If one does not exist then we (you and I) need to set one up.
If one does exist, then I expect some kind of response to my inquiries as to
what that plan is.

At no time have I directly attacked JamesPMC's competency; I have only
attempted to clarify some of the concerns I and the community have.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Serge Knystautas [mailto:sergek@lokitech.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 22:49
> To: James Users List
> Subject: Re: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication
>
>
> Open source projects are made by people who show up.  If you want to
> contribute, then do so.  Telling us we're not being good enough
> volunteers isn't cutting it with me.
>
> --
> Serge Knystautas
> Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
> p. 301.656.5501
> e. sergek@lokitech.com
>
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Re: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[ap...@bago.org]

> Open source projects are made by people who show up.  If you 
> want to contribute, then do so.  Telling us we're not being 
> good enough volunteers isn't cutting it with me.

I'm implementing ESMTP-DSN support in SMTP-Handler, DSNBounce ,
LocalDelivery and RemoteDelivery and MailImpl. I've also fixed some
behaviour in DSNBounce and a bugs in MimeMessageWrapper (the latest is high
priority).

I'm trying to find out WHO (if any) will be interested in reviewing and
commit my work. Prepare my work to be contributed is more time than simply
apply it to my local branch so I would only proceed if someone will look at
my work and if james roadmap need ESMTP-DSN support.

I would also like to discuss my current approach to ESMTP-DSN support
because I'm currently changing many classes and I would like to talk to some
James guru/committer to understand HOW he thinks I should implement it.

I'm trying to contribute... I would like to contribute... I'm not a
committer or a PMC nor an ASF member so my ONLY way to contribute is to
submit patch/bug and discuss my work in progress. If you reply that "you
don't care" than you make me really sad about the adoption of james as my
server and my will to give time to this project slowly go away.

Stefano


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Re: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>]

Open source projects are made by people who show up.  If you want to 
contribute, then do so.  Telling us we're not being good enough 
volunteers isn't cutting it with me.

-- 
Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com

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RE: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Alan Gerhard <al...@gercom.com>]

> There have been hard decisions discussed and made....

I believe it is because of these efforts that we need to review the overall
structure and make hard decisions...

ONE : What are we replacing Avalon with, who is leading that team, and do we
have a due date ?
TWO : Where are we with our current development efforts (ToDo list) and how
quickly can these efforts be realized ?
THREE : Have we defined a packaging tool/central repository for James
Production Mailets and support infrastructure ?
FOUR : Are we commercializing James, who is leading that team, and have we
gathered sufficient requirements ?


> I have no excuses, only reasons.  My reason is that I don't
> know or care about what he posted.  If he wants to contribute, people are
always
> welcome.  Nothing in his post struck me as something I needed
> to respond to.
Now that, I hope, was said in frustration - not caring about a fellow
member's issues. You are one of the active committers and may even be on the
PMC (not sure) and to, well, disregard a member's inquiries like that shows,
well, I hope it's frustration.

> Sorry, but saying that lack of time is unacceptable really bothers me.
The lack of time is a reality and it's an unacceptable excuse to any user
community, including users of Lock & Key technologies ... you, as a
customer, will never accept 'lack of time' as a reason for deliverables
being missed.
You would want a more tangible, honest, answer like "... > I have no
excuses, only reasons.  My reason is that I don't
> know or care about what he posted.  ... "


> What else would you like clarified?
I think this user community needs a better clarification of the long term
goals and the immediate steps being taken to get us there. Several users
have posted similar questions and a general frustration seems to be
lingering around.

New users are proposing radical changes, shifts in technologies, and
generating local code repositories.

Old users are asking for stability, support, and corrections to known issues
and some sort of commitment from James for future use.

I don't see a master plan that we are following - and have followed - since
inception.

- Alan


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Re: Current Issues - > RE: Gateway Authentication

[Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>]

Alan Gerhard wrote:
> These are all very good examples of why James needs to review it's current
> condition and make some hard decisions regarding overall project structure,
> design and ultimate direction James should be heading ...

There have been hard decisions discussed and made.  We have:
- continued maintenance of branch_2_1_fcs.  these are all the 2.x releases.
- we've discussed JamesNG, have not substantively decided on exact 
direction, but recognize no matter what, we need to refactor into POJOs. 
  that is the current task, one outside developer is working on that, 
and we aren't ready to have code go into SVN.
- Noel for the past 15(?) months has been working on merging those 
changes into MAIN for stable Avalon releases as a possible 3.0 release. 
  We keep patching, so he has to start over, and he got really busy in 
the past year.

That's where we are... it is agonizingly slow, but we have agreement, it 
is just some large hurdles, and no one has cleared them yet.

> You should have been answered in some form or another as to your posts and
> questions.
> The only excuse you will be given is lack of time ... although true, is
> unacceptable.

I have no excuses, only reasons.  My reason is that I don't know or care 
about what he posted.  If he wants to contribute, people are always 
welcome.  Nothing in his post struck me as something I needed to respond to.

Sorry, but saying that lack of time is unacceptable really bothers me.

> The things you bring up need to be fixed and but I am not sure what the best
> way to accomplish this can be.

I post the same email every month or two when someone asks about the 
state of James.  There is not much development, we try to answer plenty 
of support questions, put patches into JIRA, we want to move away from 
Avalon but that is not solved, and volunteers are always welcome to 
help.  What else would you like clarified?

-- 
Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com

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