You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> on 2020/05/31 16:54:40 UTC
Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Hi,
Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 16:37 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> Please, please, please get rid of this:
>
> /*
> * To change this license header, choose License Headers in Project Properties.
> * To change this template file, choose Tools | Templates
> * and open the template in the editor.
> */
>
> My students think its important so refuse to remove it or go to Tools
> | Templates and delete it there. Its really annoying. If you want to
> keep it then put it at the end of the file with the added notation
> Delete Me.
>
please use speaking subjects. They are not funny and not helpful. I
updated it to a from my POV better summary.
I don't get your point. License headers are important, the development
ecosystem shifts to opensouce models (hell, even Microsoft admits that)
and in that case clear licensing is a base requirement.
If your students don't understand what is written there teach them, I
understood you are in teaching, so use the oportunity. Just as teachers
in germany have to consider correct spelling and grammer even in non-
language subjects, you could make it a point by deducing points for
invalid license headers.
There is even a description how to "fix" the issue, so if that is to
hard, maybe programming is not the right direction for the students?
The header can't be placed at the end of the file as convention
requires it to be at the top. There are projects out there that
(rightly) refuse to include software without clear license statement.
Maybe this gives this another perspective.
Greetings
Matthias
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
ne 31. 5. 2020 v 19:00 odesílatel Matthias Bläsing <
mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu> napsal:
> Hi,
>
> Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 16:37 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> > Please, please, please get rid of this:
> >
> > /*
> > * To change this license header, choose License Headers in Project
> Properties.
> > * To change this template file, choose Tools | Templates
> There is even a description how to "fix" the issue, so if that is to
> hard,
>
Could we make the "choose Tools | Templales" a hyperlink or a hint or etc?
Something that could be just clicked? While I find the default template
annoying as well, I usually perceive this advice too complicated to follow.
I even tried to make it simpler by changing the header to:
/*
* To change this license header, click [here].
*/
and handling the click by opening the templates configuration dialog
instantly at the right place. I haven't got it working (shame on me),
however I still believe making the license configuration more approachable
would be a great service to all NetBeans IDE users.
-jt
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Carl Mosca <ca...@gmail.com>.
I don't know that it's confusing (it never was to me) just not
convenient...perhaps due to my own ignorance.
I think of any given license as project, not IDE specific.
Perhaps I should dig a bit further before commenting.
On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:00 PM Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 16:37 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> > Please, please, please get rid of this:
> >
> > /*
> > * To change this license header, choose License Headers in Project
> Properties.
> > * To change this template file, choose Tools | Templates
> > * and open the template in the editor.
> > */
> >
> > My students think its important so refuse to remove it or go to Tools
> > | Templates and delete it there. Its really annoying. If you want to
> > keep it then put it at the end of the file with the added notation
> > Delete Me.
> >
>
> please use speaking subjects. They are not funny and not helpful. I
> updated it to a from my POV better summary.
>
> I don't get your point. License headers are important, the development
> ecosystem shifts to opensouce models (hell, even Microsoft admits that)
> and in that case clear licensing is a base requirement.
>
> If your students don't understand what is written there teach them, I
> understood you are in teaching, so use the oportunity. Just as teachers
> in germany have to consider correct spelling and grammer even in non-
> language subjects, you could make it a point by deducing points for
> invalid license headers.
>
> There is even a description how to "fix" the issue, so if that is to
> hard, maybe programming is not the right direction for the students?
>
> The header can't be placed at the end of the file as convention
> requires it to be at the top. There are projects out there that
> (rightly) refuse to include software without clear license statement.
>
> Maybe this gives this another perspective.
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Carl J. Mosca
RE: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> yes, but then you have to discover it first
This is true--but of all the features in the NetBeans IDE, why would this one warrant special advertising, every single time a new file is added? Imagine if every option came with a "Did you know you could change this option?" message...
Moreover, the users who actually need the feature are advanced enough to find it.
Not a big deal, but a valid usability concern was raised, by someone who uses NetBeans in an educational setting, and who observes hundreds of students using it. This kind of feedback is valuable, and should at least not be discouraged.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:42 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Hi,
Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by
> default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache
> license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template
> first, like they always had to before.
yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is, allows you with minimal fuss to:
- remove the header
- adjust it to your liking
for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple instructions learning).
I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and complain, that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely just
> leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When you're
> trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the magic
> incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just distractions.
Sorry - I hear that very often:
- programming students are not willing to read
- programming students can't customize their working environment
- programming students can't be expected to read documentation
- programming students are stupid
I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that people in this area of work can be expected to know their work domain and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent that we thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give them incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after initial training/learning contant change will be the norm and people not being able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
Just my thoughts though
Greetings
Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
Posted by Ernie Rael <er...@raelity.com>.
On 6/2/2020 9:24 AM, David Green wrote:
> I should have said that the template is evaluated on creation of the new
> file and a blank license file will keep the source clean.
>
> It does not cause files that have already been generated to change.
There is "license changer" currently at PP2 for that.
-ernie
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:20 AM David Green <dg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Maybe it can be hidden if license file is empty.
>> It is in a per project basis.
>>
>> Dave
>> --
>> Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by David Green <dg...@gmail.com>.
I should have said that the template is evaluated on creation of the new
file and a blank license file will keep the source clean.
It does not cause files that have already been generated to change.
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:20 AM David Green <dg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe it can be hidden if license file is empty.
>
> It is in a per project basis.
>
> Dave
> --
> Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>
--
Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by David Green <dg...@gmail.com>.
> Maybe it can be hidden if license file is empty.
It is in a per project basis.
Dave
--
Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com>.
My experience with license headers are:
- Open Source - I need license headers
- Commercial - I haven't used license headers (project for banks,
financial companies etc.)
- Teaching - I don't want to use license headers it is annoying
- Studying - It is annoying
- Presentation - I don't want it
It means that only my one from five usecases uses license headers and in
other usecases I don't need it or I don't want it. This is the reason why I
think that the checkbox with enabling/disabling in a project configuration
license headers is good solution. It can be enabled by default if you want
to show a comment about the license headers. But I think that we need an
easy solution how to hide these license headers and editing templates is
not easy solution from my point of view.
I edited my netbeans templates with the license headers and remove it from
there in tha past. Is somewhere some tutorial how to easy hides these
headers? Maybe it can be hidden if license file is empty.
Tomas
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:27 AM Jesse Glick <ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:09 AM Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too)
> with
> > enabling license headers.
>
> FYI, if you use Maven, NetBeans does the right thing automatically:
> looks for the license declaration in your POM, and picks a license
> header for new files accordingly. Perhaps this needs to be extended to
> other project types, advertised better, etc.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Jesse Glick <ty...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:09 AM Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too) with
> enabling license headers.
FYI, if you use Maven, NetBeans does the right thing automatically:
looks for the license declaration in your POM, and picks a license
header for new files accordingly. Perhaps this needs to be extended to
other project types, advertised better, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
Fro the record, where I worked there was a company-standard template required. Not so much a license, but a copyright notice. I think such requirements are not that uncommon outside of OSS in the corporate world.
I think perhaps this feature would benefit from a few changes:
1 - allowing a per-project setting. Working on corporate stuff, vs various open source projects, the license will change from one project to the next. Not all projects use Maven, but if the project is a Maven project, then reading the license information from the POM if it is there makes sense. Otherwise, perhaps NB can add a .nb-license-default.txt file to the project folder (add add it the version control as needed).
2 - A better default license might make more sense than the message in the current default. For example a simple "Copyright {year} {username}” would suffice.
3 - Use a gutter hint/tooltip to direct users to where to change the license if it is the generic default.
4 - Possibly move the license setting to the “Team” section of the preferences?
License text is usually something that the team decides on and should be consistent across the team, so I would certainly not be surprised to find it there. It may also be more discoverable, as I have never ventured into the templates except by being one fo the few in my organization that bothers to read the default license text and take action. I think the hint in the gutter might make it a little closer to reach, where the big list of templates in the Template Manager tends to overwhelm people unfamiliar even though the current instructions are fairly clear.
Currently the “Team” menu seems to be about version control. That’s related to team settings I guess, but when I think Version Control, I don’t think “Team”. It also seems to have some integration to Hudson (though I think most people went to Jenkins when that drama unfolded). I can think of a lot of tweaks I would do to the menu structure now that I look more closely at it. I think I’ll write a separate email about that.
In my case at work, even having the text under “License" seemed misleading because we weren’t thinking of the text as a license - we want a copyright notice. What we are really changing is a default per-file comment. If I didn’t pay attention to the message in the default license, my first instinct would be to look for the template in “Other -> Java File” to change the text. Though I understand that the license is applied to multiple file types, so I get it.
Regards,,
Scott
> On Jun 9, 2020, at 5:41 PM, Jesse Glick <ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think it is reasonable to simply make
> `Templates/Licenses/license-default.txt` be empty, or delete it if
> that does not break anything. If we want to alert developers that they
> _can_ get automatic license header insertion, for the minority
> (typically OSS devs) who would need it, there are better ways, like a
> hint popup suggesting you set a `license` in a Maven POM.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Jesse Glick <ty...@gmail.com>.
I think it is reasonable to simply make
`Templates/Licenses/license-default.txt` be empty, or delete it if
that does not break anything. If we want to alert developers that they
_can_ get automatic license header insertion, for the minority
(typically OSS devs) who would need it, there are better ways, like a
hint popup suggesting you set a `license` in a Maven POM.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses
students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license
header)
Posted by Eric Bresie <eb...@gmail.com>.
Not an expert on this so others more well versed in this then I can chime in but thought I would put it in the thread...
Looking for Netbeans Templates I found reference (1) to FAQ for template variables. From this I see some of the following:
${project.license} based on the value (e.g., 'CDDL'), the license header is found and is inserted into the template.
How do I override those predefined variables?
Go to Tools | Templates.
Click the Set button,It will open the User.properties file from NETBEANS_USERDIR/config/Templates/Properties/User.properties.
Now you can add the above and set your own value, for example:
The reference seems a little dated from around Netbeans 6+ so hopefully this is still true. It expands on FreeMarker (2) which leads to a manual on FreeMarker (3)
So then is it as simple as having guidance in setting their “user.properties” earlier in the process?
Could maybe have wizard on first startup to set global user properties and wizard on new project specific?
I would assume with most IDEs there is something similar, so maybe when teaching it could expand on the awareness of the developer users details including the type of work (local, open source, commercial), name, contact details, as version control details on check ins, etc. The flip side of that is the risk of not putting any such licensing could result in someone else taking there source work and claiming it as their own, possibly earning money or just not getting credit.
On a separate note...I’m not sure if the current status but didn’t the wiki.netbeans.org get redirected or moved someplace on the Apache side at some point? Did this get missed or is this a legacy doc which will remain there?
(1) http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqTemplateVariables
(2) http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqFreeMarker
(3) https://freemarker.apache.org/docs/
Eric Bresie
Ebresie@gmail.com
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
I think this idea of having license selection as part of the new project wizard makes sense.
Scott
> On Jun 1, 2020, at 12:49 PM, David Green <dg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps the license question should be part of the new project workflow.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by David Green <dg...@gmail.com>.
Another (mostly retired) professor here.
We had a team project (https://github.com/dgreen/NetBeansTemplateConfig) at
the end of the course and one of the groups built a limited template tool
(for our environment) that sets up the students machine for the course
standard header for most of the Java types and the core unit tests. The
students released the code under the MIT license upon my request.
It contains the license logic that is presently in use because I wanted,
like some others here, to make the point that licensing should be
considered near the start of the project. We have an Ethics and
Intellectual Property module in the course as well. We then show how to
go into the project’s license option and set it to an empty file (using the
GUI) to disable licensing if it is not needed (and it is not required for
the class assignments).
Code could stand a lot of improvements but I wanted to share how an another
educator approached it. The present code supports Windows and Mac but not
the betas with their non-numeric convention. It does try to run against
the latest user directory although presently there is one version for
NetBeans and another for OpenBeans (and was several for CoolBeans as naming
conventions were established).
Perhaps the license question should be part of the new project workflow.
Dave
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 9:34 AM Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:
> From me a strong -1 to split the configuration. What do we gain if we
> have a checkbox and the configuration of the text at another place? I'm
> sure some usability study will tell me it is right, but for me it is
> the oposite.
>
> Am Montag, den 01.06.2020, 14:32 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> > I think Tomas' suggestion below makes the most sense. If the
> > community feels strongly that licenses must be encouraged then it
> > could be reduced to a single line such as :
> >
> > // Consider creating a Licence header in Project Properties or Tools
> > Templates.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: June 1, 2020 2:09 AM
> > To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses
> > students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license
> > header)
> >
> > My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too)
> > with enabling license headers. It can be disabled by default and if
> > you want license headers (because you know what you are doing) you
> > can easily enable it in settings.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:35 AM Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Just a few comments:
> > > -we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global
> > > or
> > > project-specific configuration -if we keep the text, we probably
> > > want
> > > to tweak it to speak about per-project configuration (i.e. besides
> > > the
> > > global configuration, projects can have their own configuration)
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <
> > > mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > > > > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template
> > > > > empty
> > > > > by default--people who want a default license header (to e.g.
> > > > > the
> > > > > Apache
> > > > > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the
> > > > > template first, like they always had to before.
> > > >
> > > > yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is,
> > > > allows you with minimal fuss to:
> > > >
> > > > - remove the header
> > > > - adjust it to your liking
> > > >
> > > > for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple
> > > > instructions learning).
> > > >
> > > > I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and
> > > > complain, that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> > > >
> > > > > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will
> > > > > likely
> > > > > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything.
> > > > > When
> > > > > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all
> > > > > the
> > > > > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > > > > distractions.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry - I hear that very often:
> > > >
> > > > - programming students are not willing to read
> > > > - programming students can't customize their working environment
> > > > - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> > > > - programming students are stupid
> > > >
> > > > I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers
> > > > are
> > > > normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is,
> > > > that
> > > > people in this area of work can be expected to know their work
> > > > domain and their tools. I also believe people are more
> > > > intelligent
> > > > that we thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e.
> > > > give
> > > > them incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years
> > > > after
> > > > initial training/learning contant change will be the norm and
> > > > people
> > > > not being able to learn might be better of learning this fact
> > > > early on.
> > > >
> > > > Just my thoughts though
> > > >
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > > Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > -----
> > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --
Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>.
From me a strong -1 to split the configuration. What do we gain if we
have a checkbox and the configuration of the text at another place? I'm
sure some usability study will tell me it is right, but for me it is
the oposite.
Am Montag, den 01.06.2020, 14:32 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> I think Tomas' suggestion below makes the most sense. If the
> community feels strongly that licenses must be encouraged then it
> could be reduced to a single line such as :
>
> // Consider creating a Licence header in Project Properties or Tools
> Templates.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com>
> Sent: June 1, 2020 2:09 AM
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses
> students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license
> header)
>
> My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too)
> with enabling license headers. It can be disabled by default and if
> you want license headers (because you know what you are doing) you
> can easily enable it in settings.
>
> Tomas
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:35 AM Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just a few comments:
> > -we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global
> > or
> > project-specific configuration -if we keep the text, we probably
> > want
> > to tweak it to speak about per-project configuration (i.e. besides
> > the
> > global configuration, projects can have their own configuration)
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <
> > mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > > > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template
> > > > empty
> > > > by default--people who want a default license header (to e.g.
> > > > the
> > > > Apache
> > > > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the
> > > > template first, like they always had to before.
> > >
> > > yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is,
> > > allows you with minimal fuss to:
> > >
> > > - remove the header
> > > - adjust it to your liking
> > >
> > > for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple
> > > instructions learning).
> > >
> > > I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and
> > > complain, that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> > >
> > > > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will
> > > > likely
> > > > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything.
> > > > When
> > > > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all
> > > > the
> > > > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > > > distractions.
> > >
> > > Sorry - I hear that very often:
> > >
> > > - programming students are not willing to read
> > > - programming students can't customize their working environment
> > > - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> > > - programming students are stupid
> > >
> > > I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers
> > > are
> > > normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is,
> > > that
> > > people in this area of work can be expected to know their work
> > > domain and their tools. I also believe people are more
> > > intelligent
> > > that we thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e.
> > > give
> > > them incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years
> > > after
> > > initial training/learning contant change will be the norm and
> > > people
> > > not being able to learn might be better of learning this fact
> > > early on.
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts though
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -----
> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>.
I think Tomas' suggestion below makes the most sense. If the community feels strongly that licenses must be encouraged then it could be reduced to a single line such as :
// Consider creating a Licence header in Project Properties or Tools Templates.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com>
Sent: June 1, 2020 2:09 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too) with enabling license headers. It can be disabled by default and if you want license headers (because you know what you are doing) you can easily enable it in settings.
Tomas
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:35 AM Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a few comments:
> -we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global or
> project-specific configuration -if we keep the text, we probably want
> to tweak it to speak about per-project configuration (i.e. besides the
> global configuration, projects can have their own configuration)
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <
> mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty
> > > by default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the
> > > Apache
> > > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the
> > > template first, like they always had to before.
> >
> > yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is,
> > allows you with minimal fuss to:
> >
> > - remove the header
> > - adjust it to your liking
> >
> > for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple
> > instructions learning).
> >
> > I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and
> > complain, that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> >
> > > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely
> > > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When
> > > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the
> > > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > > distractions.
> >
> > Sorry - I hear that very often:
> >
> > - programming students are not willing to read
> > - programming students can't customize their working environment
> > - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> > - programming students are stupid
> >
> > I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are
> > normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that
> > people in this area of work can be expected to know their work
> > domain and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent
> > that we thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give
> > them incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after
> > initial training/learning contant change will be the norm and people
> > not being able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
> >
> > Just my thoughts though
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
+1 to the idea of a hint on the first line that links to the default license template if the file does not start with a comment.
We also need per-project templates and perhaps improvements to the default template. I always figured the default should insert a copyright notice with the current year at minimum. That’s what I always change my default to.
You can’t imagine how many files were checked in at my last company with the default template left as is. Even with the instruction there, “professional” developers are too lazy to change it :-(. It becomes something they just start to ignore.
Scott
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 10:58, Zoran Sevarac <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In addition to suggested solutions, maybe it could be handy to have
> EducationalMode plugin which will provide all the settings suitable for
> teaching out of the box.
+1 This I've said multiple times - something that could control
selective enablement of features, similar to ergonomics but with a
different focus. Not just on/off, but selective enablement of
features to evolve with the user, which is not necessarily just
limited to education. It somewhat annoys me that things like BlueJ
exist! :-)
But, IMO, this needs to have discoverability of features at its heart
too. Guide and explain, don't hide away.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Zoran Sevarac <se...@gmail.com>.
Obviously, there are different needs/perspectives for professional
developers and students.
In addition to suggested solutions, maybe it could be handy to have
EducationalMode plugin which will provide all the settings suitable for
teaching out of the box.
Although it is possible to do it manually, things like these break
learning/teaching flow, especially when you have to explain it multiple
times to several students that were not listening
because they were solving some other small issue, and when you have to set
up this on 20 computers in 5 classrooms etc.
Best
Zoran
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:16 AM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 09:06, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
> > +1 for the hint mentioned by Jan and +1 for the checkbox mentioned by
> Tomas.
>
> +1 to the hint mentioned by Jan, was thinking similar.
>
> -1 to the checkbox, at least if it's off by default. I mainly agree
> with Matthias' stance. Hiding things doesn't help discoverability
> either.
>
> I would be in favour of getting feedback from the students on the
> actual text in use, though - is there something that would make it
> more obvious what they should do? I hate second guessing user
> experience.
>
> I also wonder whether we could hyperlink certain text in such comments
> directly to actions / options? Including to a per-project kill
> switch? There are a few places that might be useful. Hints are a
> little hidden.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
--
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Associate Professor
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences, Department for
Software Engineering
Java Champion <https://community.oracle.com/community/java/java-champions>
| Oracle Groundbreaker Ambassador | Deep Netts <http://www.deepnetts.com>
Co-founder & CEO
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 09:06, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net> wrote:
> +1 for the hint mentioned by Jan and +1 for the checkbox mentioned by Tomas.
+1 to the hint mentioned by Jan, was thinking similar.
-1 to the checkbox, at least if it's off by default. I mainly agree
with Matthias' stance. Hiding things doesn't help discoverability
either.
I would be in favour of getting feedback from the students on the
actual text in use, though - is there something that would make it
more obvious what they should do? I hate second guessing user
experience.
I also wonder whether we could hyperlink certain text in such comments
directly to actions / options? Including to a per-project kill
switch? There are a few places that might be useful. Hints are a
little hidden.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
AW: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
+1 for the hint mentioned by Jan and +1 for the checkbox mentioned by Tomas.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Tomas Poledny
Gesendet: Montag, 1. Juni 2020 08:09
An: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too) with
enabling license headers. It can be disabled by default and if you want
license headers (because you know what you are doing) you can easily enable
it in settings.
Tomas
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:35 AM Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a few comments:
> -we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global or
> project-specific configuration
> -if we keep the text, we probably want to tweak it to speak about
> per-project configuration (i.e. besides the global configuration, projects
> can have their own configuration)
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <
> mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by
> > > default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache
> > > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template
> > > first, like they always had to before.
> >
> > yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is, allows
> > you with minimal fuss to:
> >
> > - remove the header
> > - adjust it to your liking
> >
> > for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple instructions
> > learning).
> >
> > I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and complain,
> > that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> >
> > > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely
> > > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When
> > > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the
> > > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > > distractions.
> >
> > Sorry - I hear that very often:
> >
> > - programming students are not willing to read
> > - programming students can't customize their working environment
> > - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> > - programming students are stupid
> >
> > I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are
> > normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that
> > people in this area of work can be expected to know their work domain
> > and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent that we
> > thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give them
> > incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after initial
> > training/learning contant change will be the norm and people not being
> > able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
> >
> > Just my thoughts though
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Tomas Poledny <sa...@gmail.com>.
My proposal is to create a checkbox in settings (and per project too) with
enabling license headers. It can be disabled by default and if you want
license headers (because you know what you are doing) you can easily enable
it in settings.
Tomas
On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:35 AM Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a few comments:
> -we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global or
> project-specific configuration
> -if we keep the text, we probably want to tweak it to speak about
> per-project configuration (i.e. besides the global configuration, projects
> can have their own configuration)
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <
> mblaesing@doppel-helix.eu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by
> > > default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache
> > > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template
> > > first, like they always had to before.
> >
> > yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is, allows
> > you with minimal fuss to:
> >
> > - remove the header
> > - adjust it to your liking
> >
> > for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple instructions
> > learning).
> >
> > I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and complain,
> > that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> >
> > > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely
> > > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When
> > > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the
> > > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > > distractions.
> >
> > Sorry - I hear that very often:
> >
> > - programming students are not willing to read
> > - programming students can't customize their working environment
> > - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> > - programming students are stupid
> >
> > I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are
> > normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that
> > people in this area of work can be expected to know their work domain
> > and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent that we
> > thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give them
> > incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after initial
> > training/learning contant change will be the norm and people not being
> > able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
> >
> > Just my thoughts though
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Jan Lahoda <la...@gmail.com>.
Just a few comments:
-we could have a hint (lightbulb) allowing to easily open global or
project-specific configuration
-if we keep the text, we probably want to tweak it to speak about
per-project configuration (i.e. besides the global configuration, projects
can have their own configuration)
Jan
On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 7:42 PM Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> > I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by
> > default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache
> > license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template
> > first, like they always had to before.
>
> yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is, allows
> you with minimal fuss to:
>
> - remove the header
> - adjust it to your liking
>
> for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple instructions
> learning).
>
> I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and complain,
> that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
>
> > But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely
> > just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When
> > you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the
> > magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> > distractions.
>
> Sorry - I hear that very often:
>
> - programming students are not willing to read
> - programming students can't customize their working environment
> - programming students can't be expected to read documentation
> - programming students are stupid
>
> I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are
> normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that
> people in this area of work can be expected to know their work domain
> and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent that we
> thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give them
> incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after initial
> training/learning contant change will be the norm and people not being
> able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
>
> Just my thoughts though
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: Default license header in generated files confuses students
(was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>.
Hi,
Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 17:24 +0000 schrieb Eirik Bakke:
> I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by
> default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache
> license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template
> first, like they always had to before.
yes, but then you have to discover it first. The template as is, allows
you with minimal fuss to:
- remove the header
- adjust it to your liking
for minimal learning (if you want to call reading simple instructions
learning).
I bet, that if we remove the message someone will come up and complain,
that the feature is missing or badly discoverable.
> But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely
> just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When
> you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the
> magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just
> distractions.
Sorry - I hear that very often:
- programming students are not willing to read
- programming students can't customize their working environment
- programming students can't be expected to read documentation
- programming students are stupid
I think this cuts it way short. Remember: Programmars/Developers are
normally paid good money and yes, my baseline assumption is, that
people in this area of work can be expected to know their work domain
and their tools. I also believe people are more intelligent that we
thing, at least if we make them use their brain (i.e. give them
incentives to solve problems themselves). In the years after initial
training/learning contant change will be the norm and people not being
able to learn might be better of learning this fact early on.
Just my thoughts though
Greetings
Matthias, who thinks, that NetBeans problems are in other areas
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was:
Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
I believe the proposal here is merely to make the template empty by default--people who want a default license header (to e.g. the Apache license) can still use the feature, but must customize the template first, like they always had to before.
The default license header has always been a slight annoyance to me. Different projects I work on have different licenses, so it has never made sense for me to try to customize the default. Instead I just end up deleting the auto-inserted comments every time.
But I think this is a bigger issue for beginners, who will likely just leave the defaults in, out of fear of breaking anything. When you're trying to teach students how to write a for loop, all the magic incantations at the beginning of a Java file are just distractions.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 12:55 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Default license header in generated files confuses students (was: Re: The time has come to bd farewell to the license header)
Hi,
Am Sonntag, den 31.05.2020, 16:37 +0000 schrieb Kenneth Fogel:
> Please, please, please get rid of this:
>
> /*
> * To change this license header, choose License Headers in Project Properties.
> * To change this template file, choose Tools | Templates
> * and open the template in the editor.
> */
>
> My students think its important so refuse to remove it or go to Tools
> | Templates and delete it there. Its really annoying. If you want to
> keep it then put it at the end of the file with the added notation
> Delete Me.
>
please use speaking subjects. They are not funny and not helpful. I updated it to a from my POV better summary.
I don't get your point. License headers are important, the development ecosystem shifts to opensouce models (hell, even Microsoft admits that) and in that case clear licensing is a base requirement.
If your students don't understand what is written there teach them, I understood you are in teaching, so use the oportunity. Just as teachers in germany have to consider correct spelling and grammer even in non- language subjects, you could make it a point by deducing points for invalid license headers.
There is even a description how to "fix" the issue, so if that is to hard, maybe programming is not the right direction for the students?
The header can't be placed at the end of the file as convention requires it to be at the top. There are projects out there that
(rightly) refuse to include software without clear license statement.
Maybe this gives this another perspective.
Greetings
Matthias
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists