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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> on 2015/12/30 15:55:41 UTC
Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project homepage possible?
Hello,
We at project FreeMarker intend to issue a Release Candidate under
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/. Note that it's just
"dev", not "release". There will be both source and binary RC release
artifacts. As I understand, this so far doesn't require any voting, as
it will be the subject of the later voting (on dev@freemaker first).
The binary artifact will be linked on the top of the FreeMarker
homepage for testing for one month. At least this is how it was done
prior ASF. An RC like that used to have around a 50-100 downloads
during the RC period (plus the Maven staging repo downloads), so
hopefully it's not a technical issue that it's a download directly
from "repos".
Is this procedure OK in ASF? I mean, we *kind of* publish something
that wasn't voted on, at least not on incubator general.
--
Thanks,
Daniel Dekany
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Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 30/12/2015 14:55, Daniel Dekany wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We at project FreeMarker intend to issue a Release Candidate under
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/. Note that it's just
> "dev", not "release". There will be both source and binary RC release
> artifacts. As I understand, this so far doesn't require any voting, as
> it will be the subject of the later voting (on dev@freemaker first).
>
> The binary artifact will be linked on the top of the FreeMarker
> homepage for testing for one month. At least this is how it was done
> prior ASF. An RC like that used to have around a 50-100 downloads
> during the RC period (plus the Maven staging repo downloads), so
> hopefully it's not a technical issue that it's a download directly
> from "repos".
>
> Is this procedure OK in ASF? I mean, we *kind of* publish something
> that wasn't voted on, at least not on incubator general.
No.
RC's should not be visible to ordinary users. It is OK to link to them
from the developer pages (the ones that point to source repos, explain
who to provide patches etc,) but not from anywhere that is not developer
focussed.
Similarly, you can announce them on developer mailing lists but not user
mailing lists.
Mark
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Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Jan 7, 2016 20:48, "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I wanted to get others opinions. Currently Freemarker creates two
> artifacts - one is a GAE compatible module, the other is a regular
> library. They are created from two distinct branches in their SCM. Are
> those artifacts voted on together or separately?
The source code tarball is the subject of the release vote. Since these
are two branches used to create two separate packages, I would expect these
are subject to two distinct votes.
The resulting binaries or other output from building these packages are not
subject to a vote, they just need to be reproducible by anyone who obtains
the sources.
Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
All,
I wanted to get others opinions. Currently Freemarker creates two
artifacts - one is a GAE compatible module, the other is a regular
library. They are created from two distinct branches in their SCM. Are
those artifacts voted on together or separately?
John
On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:57 AM Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> Thursday, December 31, 2015, 3:26:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>
> wrote:
> >> OK thanks, makes sense, then RC-s at FreeMarker will go through the
> >> same process as final releases (except that they don't go to stable
> >> Maven Repo-s such as the Central).
> >>
> >> This, however, means that sometimes we will have two "latest releases"
> >> under http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/freemarker/engine/, like
> >> 2.3.24-incubating/ and 2.3.25-incubating-rc1/. I hope that's fine.
> >> (The release policy says "/www.apache.org/dist should contain the
> >> latest release in each branch that is currently under development.",
> >> which doesn't strictly stand here.)
> >
> > Yes, that's fine. That passage in the Release Distribution Policy is
> > primarily motivated by the need to keep the volume of material in
> mirrored
> > distribution under control. Clearly it is appropriate in this case to go
> > against the SHOULD.
> >
> > Earlier I suggested that you would need two VOTEs for this approach. If
> the
> > content of the "public RC"[1] source archive differs from that of the
> "final"
> > source archive, that's definitely true. However, if the "final" is only
> a
> > renaming of the "public RC", I'd like to explore whether or not we can
> spare
> > you from the second VOTE.
> >
> > Is it the case that you could transform a "public RC" into a "final"
> using
> > only `svn mv` (and similar) to rename files within `
> dist.apache.org/release` <http://dist.apache.org/release>?
>
> The two releases aren't exactly the same because both the source and
> the binary contains the version number (which includes "rc01"). Also
> in practice there used to be at least some typo fixes anyway.
>
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > [1] I'm using "public RC" here to differentiate from an RC which has not
> yet
> > been approved for public distribtion by an Apache PMC following the
> > Release Policy.
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Daniel Dekany
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project homepage possible?
Posted by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>.
Thursday, December 31, 2015, 3:26:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
>> OK thanks, makes sense, then RC-s at FreeMarker will go through the
>> same process as final releases (except that they don't go to stable
>> Maven Repo-s such as the Central).
>>
>> This, however, means that sometimes we will have two "latest releases"
>> under http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/freemarker/engine/, like
>> 2.3.24-incubating/ and 2.3.25-incubating-rc1/. I hope that's fine.
>> (The release policy says "/www.apache.org/dist should contain the
>> latest release in each branch that is currently under development.",
>> which doesn't strictly stand here.)
>
> Yes, that's fine. That passage in the Release Distribution Policy is
> primarily motivated by the need to keep the volume of material in mirrored
> distribution under control. Clearly it is appropriate in this case to go
> against the SHOULD.
>
> Earlier I suggested that you would need two VOTEs for this approach. If the
> content of the "public RC"[1] source archive differs from that of the "final"
> source archive, that's definitely true. However, if the "final" is only a
> renaming of the "public RC", I'd like to explore whether or not we can spare
> you from the second VOTE.
>
> Is it the case that you could transform a "public RC" into a "final" using
> only `svn mv` (and similar) to rename files within `dist.apache.org/release`?
The two releases aren't exactly the same because both the source and
the binary contains the version number (which includes "rc01"). Also
in practice there used to be at least some typo fixes anyway.
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] I'm using "public RC" here to differentiate from an RC which has not yet
> been approved for public distribtion by an Apache PMC following the
> Release Policy.
--
Thanks,
Daniel Dekany
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Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> OK thanks, makes sense, then RC-s at FreeMarker will go through the
> same process as final releases (except that they don't go to stable
> Maven Repo-s such as the Central).
>
> This, however, means that sometimes we will have two "latest releases"
> under http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/freemarker/engine/, like
> 2.3.24-incubating/ and 2.3.25-incubating-rc1/. I hope that's fine.
> (The release policy says "/www.apache.org/dist should contain the
> latest release in each branch that is currently under development.",
> which doesn't strictly stand here.)
Yes, that's fine. That passage in the Release Distribution Policy is
primarily motivated by the need to keep the volume of material in mirrored
distribution under control. Clearly it is appropriate in this case to go
against the SHOULD.
Earlier I suggested that you would need two VOTEs for this approach. If the
content of the "public RC"[1] source archive differs from that of the "final"
source archive, that's definitely true. However, if the "final" is only a
renaming of the "public RC", I'd like to explore whether or not we can spare
you from the second VOTE.
Is it the case that you could transform a "public RC" into a "final" using
only `svn mv` (and similar) to rename files within `dist.apache.org/release`?
Marvin Humphrey
[1] I'm using "public RC" here to differentiate from an RC which has not yet
been approved for public distribtion by an Apache PMC following the
Release Policy.
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Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project homepage possible?
Posted by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>.
OK thanks, makes sense, then RC-s at FreeMarker will go through the
same process as final releases (except that they don't go to stable
Maven Repo-s such as the Central).
This, however, means that sometimes we will have two "latest releases"
under http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/freemarker/engine/, like
2.3.24-incubating/ and 2.3.25-incubating-rc1/. I hope that's fine.
(The release policy says "/www.apache.org/dist should contain the
latest release in each branch that is currently under development.",
which doesn't strictly stand here.)
Wednesday, December 30, 2015, 9:33:27 PM, John D. Ament wrote:
> Perhaps once way to deal with this is to formally vote on the RC so
> that it is official, even if it keeps the RC name.
>
> John
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 3:15 PM Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Have a look through Apache's offical _Release Policy_ and _Release
> Distribution Policy_ documents.
>
> http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution
>
> Those policy documents (not the accompanying FAQs, just the Policies) are
> canonical.
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
>
>> We at project FreeMarker intend to issue a Release Candidate under
>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/. Note that it's just
>> "dev", not "release".
>
> Good so far... the `dev` section of `dist.apache.org` is precisely the right
> place to upload release candidates to share with other members of the
> FreeMarker dev community.
>
>> There will be both source and binary RC release artifacts.
>
> OK, but please note the source and binary archives are not equal. The source
> archive is the official release and (from the perspective of the Foundation)
> the binary is optional.
>
>> As I understand, this so far doesn't require any voting, as
>> it will be the subject of the later voting (on dev@freemaker first).
>
> Correct -- putting the RC archive into the `dev` section of `dist.apache.org`
> does not require previous PMC approval.
>
>> The binary artifact will be linked on the top of the FreeMarker
>> homepage for testing for one month. At least this is how it was done
>> prior ASF. An RC like that used to have around a 50-100 downloads
>> during the RC period (plus the Maven staging repo downloads), so
>> hopefully it's not a technical issue that it's a download directly
>> from "repos".
>
> There are two problems here.
>
> First, please do not expose unreleased materials to people outside the dev
> community.
>
> http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy#publication
>
> ... Projects MUST direct outsiders towards official releases rather than
> raw source repositories, nightly builds, snapshots, release candidates, or
> any other similar packages. The only people who are supposed to know about
> such developer resources are individuals actively participating in
> development or following the dev list and thus aware of the conditions
> placed on unreleased materials.
>
> Second, please do not provide any direct links to the ASF's subversion
> repositories from public-facing download pages. This holds not only for
> release candidates but also for approved official releases. Anything that
> ends up in the `release` section of `dist.apache.org` is also available from
> the ASF mirror network -- please use the mirror network for distribution to
> the general public.
>
>> Is this procedure OK in ASF? I mean, we *kind of* publish something
>> that wasn't voted on, at least not on incubator general.
>
> If it is important to you for the user community to test out a version of the
> software before it become official, the solution is to run two VOTEs: one for
> the beta (or whatever you want to call it) and one for the final release.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
--
Thanks,
Daniel Dekany
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Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
Perhaps once way to deal with this is to formally vote on the RC so that it
is official, even if it keeps the RC name.
John
On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 3:15 PM Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Have a look through Apache's offical _Release Policy_ and _Release
> Distribution Policy_ documents.
>
> http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution
>
> Those policy documents (not the accompanying FAQs, just the Policies) are
> canonical.
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>
> wrote:
>
> > We at project FreeMarker intend to issue a Release Candidate under
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/. Note that it's just
> > "dev", not "release".
>
> Good so far... the `dev` section of `dist.apache.org` is precisely the
> right
> place to upload release candidates to share with other members of the
> FreeMarker dev community.
>
> > There will be both source and binary RC release artifacts.
>
> OK, but please note the source and binary archives are not equal. The
> source
> archive is the official release and (from the perspective of the
> Foundation)
> the binary is optional.
>
> > As I understand, this so far doesn't require any voting, as
> > it will be the subject of the later voting (on dev@freemaker first).
>
> Correct -- putting the RC archive into the `dev` section of `
> dist.apache.org`
> does not require previous PMC approval.
>
> > The binary artifact will be linked on the top of the FreeMarker
> > homepage for testing for one month. At least this is how it was done
> > prior ASF. An RC like that used to have around a 50-100 downloads
> > during the RC period (plus the Maven staging repo downloads), so
> > hopefully it's not a technical issue that it's a download directly
> > from "repos".
>
> There are two problems here.
>
> First, please do not expose unreleased materials to people outside the dev
> community.
>
> http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy#publication
>
> ... Projects MUST direct outsiders towards official releases rather
> than
> raw source repositories, nightly builds, snapshots, release
> candidates, or
> any other similar packages. The only people who are supposed to know
> about
> such developer resources are individuals actively participating in
> development or following the dev list and thus aware of the conditions
> placed on unreleased materials.
>
> Second, please do not provide any direct links to the ASF's subversion
> repositories from public-facing download pages. This holds not only for
> release candidates but also for approved official releases. Anything that
> ends up in the `release` section of `dist.apache.org` is also available
> from
> the ASF mirror network -- please use the mirror network for distribution to
> the general public.
>
> > Is this procedure OK in ASF? I mean, we *kind of* publish something
> > that wasn't voted on, at least not on incubator general.
>
> If it is important to you for the user community to test out a version of
> the
> software before it become official, the solution is to run two VOTEs: one
> for
> the beta (or whatever you want to call it) and one for the final release.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Non-voted Release Candidate binary downloadable from project
homepage possible?
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
Hi Daniel,
Have a look through Apache's offical _Release Policy_ and _Release
Distribution Policy_ documents.
http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy
http://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution
Those policy documents (not the accompanying FAQs, just the Policies) are
canonical.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> We at project FreeMarker intend to issue a Release Candidate under
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/. Note that it's just
> "dev", not "release".
Good so far... the `dev` section of `dist.apache.org` is precisely the right
place to upload release candidates to share with other members of the
FreeMarker dev community.
> There will be both source and binary RC release artifacts.
OK, but please note the source and binary archives are not equal. The source
archive is the official release and (from the perspective of the Foundation)
the binary is optional.
> As I understand, this so far doesn't require any voting, as
> it will be the subject of the later voting (on dev@freemaker first).
Correct -- putting the RC archive into the `dev` section of `dist.apache.org`
does not require previous PMC approval.
> The binary artifact will be linked on the top of the FreeMarker
> homepage for testing for one month. At least this is how it was done
> prior ASF. An RC like that used to have around a 50-100 downloads
> during the RC period (plus the Maven staging repo downloads), so
> hopefully it's not a technical issue that it's a download directly
> from "repos".
There are two problems here.
First, please do not expose unreleased materials to people outside the dev
community.
http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy#publication
... Projects MUST direct outsiders towards official releases rather than
raw source repositories, nightly builds, snapshots, release candidates, or
any other similar packages. The only people who are supposed to know about
such developer resources are individuals actively participating in
development or following the dev list and thus aware of the conditions
placed on unreleased materials.
Second, please do not provide any direct links to the ASF's subversion
repositories from public-facing download pages. This holds not only for
release candidates but also for approved official releases. Anything that
ends up in the `release` section of `dist.apache.org` is also available from
the ASF mirror network -- please use the mirror network for distribution to
the general public.
> Is this procedure OK in ASF? I mean, we *kind of* publish something
> that wasn't voted on, at least not on incubator general.
If it is important to you for the user community to test out a version of the
software before it become official, the solution is to run two VOTEs: one for
the beta (or whatever you want to call it) and one for the final release.
Hope this helps,
Marvin Humphrey
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