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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> on 2004/03/07 10:23:50 UTC
[site] Translated (Web) -> Unofficial Resources...?
at the moment, we have a section on the jakarta navigation bar that's
titled 'Translated (Web)'. i've been wondering whether it might be
better to rename this to something like 'Community Resources
(Unofficial)'. this would make it clear that (though we're very
grateful for these sites), they are not officially endorsed
translations.
later, we might think about adding other unofficial resources (such as
planetapache) to the menu.
- robert
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> 2. Put <author email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache
> Jakarta Project</author> to all the XML files in "jakarta-site2"
> module.
I still think the obfuscation is pointless.
> 3. Renamed "Translated(Web)" to "Sister Resources" @ left-side navi
I'd prefer a label that implies less endorsment. Related Resources,
External Resources. I'm not good at names.
> 4. Added "PlanetApache" and "Apache News" to Sister Resources
> category
Fine with me (even though I wonder whether you've checked with anybody
about your usage of the apachenews.org domain name, but that's a
different issue).
Stefan
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:01:41 +0000
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> but that's all for the future. at the present, i just wanted to think
> about renaming translations and to think about adding planetapache :)
>
> no ulterior motives, i promise :)
Done,
1. Removed real names and e-mail addresses from all the
XML files in "jakarta-site2" module. -- /document/properties/author elements
2. Put
<author email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache Jakarta Project</author>
to all the XML files in "jakarta-site2" module.
(Obfuscated ... thanx > Stefan)
3. Renamed "Translated(Web)" to "Sister Resources" @ left-side navi
4. Added "PlanetApache" and "Apache News" to Sister Resources category
Cheers,
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S. I know it that robert is fanatical about planetapache :)
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:28:14 -0500 (EST)
Henri Yandell wrote:
> Sister resources doesn't sit well with me. It feels like a very odd phrase
> of English. The only other one I know of is 'Sister Cities', which implies
> a sense of equality between the cities.
Okay, this is what I wanted to hear. :)
# Just I could not hear "is this odd?" directly -- so,
# "i'll do if there's no objection".
> Resources (Unofficial) gets my vote, as that lets us link in bits in
> our own Wiki or personal apache pages.
Wiki itself would be official, in terms of
domain name (nagoya.apache, wiki.apache), however,
Henri's comment makes sense.
"Resources (External)" would make sense more, perhaps.
Cheers,
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Resources (Unofficial) gets my vote,
>>
>>
>
>works for me.
>
>
Ditto
Vadim
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
> Resources (Unofficial) gets my vote,
works for me.
Stefan
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Sister resources doesn't sit well with me. It feels like a very odd phrase
of English. The only other one I know of is 'Sister Cities', which implies
a sense of equality between the cities.
Resources (Unofficial) gets my vote, as that lets us link in bits in our
own Wiki or personal apache pages.
Hen
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
> On 19 Mar 2004, at 08:50, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, robert burrell donkin
> > <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 11 Mar 2004, at 12:47, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
> >>>> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>>>> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
> >>>>
> >>>> At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
> >>>> would be one of them :)
> >>>> -- external resources to apache.org domain
> >>>
> >>> This is to broad to me for a general "I'll add some unless anybody
> >>> objects". I'd like to know which you'll add unless anybody
> >>> objects.
> >>
> >> my original suggestion for something like 'Resources
> >> (Unofficial)'.
> >
> > How about "External Resources" then? "Sister" implies more
> > endorsement than is needed IMHO.
>
> the argument was that it's good to be consistent with www.apache.org
> (which uses this particular term). after reflection, i'm still inclined
> towards "Resources (Unofficial)" (being both concise and accurate) or
> "External Resources" (i like it less than the first for aesthetic
> reasons) and away from "Sister Resources" but my feeling aren't too
> strong...
>
> anyone else have preferences they'd like to express?
>
> <snip>
>
> >> users will need to be able to find these related resources which
> >> will be hosted offshore (rather than by the ASF).
> >
> > I think the jpackage project may be one of the related projects, then.
> > They provide RPMs for quite a few Java Apache projects.
>
> i'd definitely agree.
>
> after brian's comments about the great strides made by the freeBSD
> ports of ASF product coded in java, i'd also like to think about adding
> a freeBSD related link.
>
> but, now (before we start adding links) is probably a good time to
> gauge community feelings about suitability. if anyone has any opinions
> on this, then this would be a really good time to speak up :)
>
> - robert
>
>
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 19 Mar 2004, at 08:50, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, robert burrell donkin
> <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 11 Mar 2004, at 12:47, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
>>>> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
>>>>
>>>> At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
>>>> would be one of them :)
>>>> -- external resources to apache.org domain
>>>
>>> This is to broad to me for a general "I'll add some unless anybody
>>> objects". I'd like to know which you'll add unless anybody
>>> objects.
>>
>> my original suggestion for something like 'Resources
>> (Unofficial)'.
>
> How about "External Resources" then? "Sister" implies more
> endorsement than is needed IMHO.
the argument was that it's good to be consistent with www.apache.org
(which uses this particular term). after reflection, i'm still inclined
towards "Resources (Unofficial)" (being both concise and accurate) or
"External Resources" (i like it less than the first for aesthetic
reasons) and away from "Sister Resources" but my feeling aren't too
strong...
anyone else have preferences they'd like to express?
<snip>
>> users will need to be able to find these related resources which
>> will be hosted offshore (rather than by the ASF).
>
> I think the jpackage project may be one of the related projects, then.
> They provide RPMs for quite a few Java Apache projects.
i'd definitely agree.
after brian's comments about the great strides made by the freeBSD
ports of ASF product coded in java, i'd also like to think about adding
a freeBSD related link.
but, now (before we start adding links) is probably a good time to
gauge community feelings about suitability. if anyone has any opinions
on this, then this would be a really good time to speak up :)
- robert
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004, robert burrell donkin
<ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2004, at 12:47, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
>>> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
>>>
>>> At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
>>> would be one of them :)
>>> -- external resources to apache.org domain
>>
>> This is to broad to me for a general "I'll add some unless anybody
>> objects". I'd like to know which you'll add unless anybody
>> objects.
>
> my original suggestion for something like 'Resources
> (Unofficial)'.
How about "External Resources" then? "Sister" implies more
endorsement than is needed IMHO.
> i have a great deal of respect for the people running the
> translation websites
Absolutely.
> users will need to be able to find these related resources which
> will be hosted offshore (rather than by the ASF).
I think the jpackage project may be one of the related projects, then.
They provide RPMs for quite a few Java Apache projects.
> no ulterior motives, i promise :)
8-)
I didn't expect any.
Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 11 Mar 2004, at 12:47, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
>> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
<snip>
>>> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
>>
>> At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
>> would be one of them :)
>> -- external resources to apache.org domain
>
> This is to broad to me for a general "I'll add some unless anybody
> objects". I'd like to know which you'll add unless anybody objects.
my original suggestion for something like 'Resources (Unofficial)'. i
have a great deal of respect for the people running the translation
websites but (after following numerous debates on matters related to
official translations) i think that it's important to indicate that the
translated sites are not officially approved by the ASF. planetapache
is very cool and it's a shame that it's not linked anywhere from the
jakarta home page. i was pondering about adding a link below the
translations (but in the same section).
in some ways, though, it's really bigger than that: it's also about one
road that the ASF seems to be starting to traveling down. it seems to
me that we're starting to reach out to a larger but more diffuse
community. at the same time, the organization is becoming more
centralized and policy driven. it seems to me that these conflicting
ideas are likely to be reflected in the ASF websites. the scope of
websites hosted by the ASF will probably need to be more tightly
policed with some content moving away to related resources. users will
need to be able to find these related resources which will be hosted
offshore (rather than by the ASF).
i know that some people will say: 'why not just let people google?'.
for me, the problem is that google isn't quite what it used to be (or
at least, that's the way it seems to me). it's no good expecting users
to know about a useful site which isn't linked and is google ranked
below fifty.
i don't know if people have been following the debates on licensing but
it seems to me likely that jakarta may need to think about providing
links to downstream packagers (to allow users to obtain full,
ready-to-run distributions) sooner or later. offshore pages may also be
a better solution to problems like the vendor's page. (struts has gone
down this route.)
but that's all for the future. at the present, i just wanted to think
about renaming translations and to think about adding planetapache :)
no ulterior motives, i promise :)
- robert
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>
>> > Also, at the same time, i'd like to perform the clean-up things
>> > upon "jakarta-site2" module -- <author
>> > email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache Jakarta
>> > Project</author>
>> Why not simply remove the author completely?
>
> I am afraid it that people can not easily find this:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html#Feedback
> - where to contact.
It never occured to me to look into the author tag in order to find
the contact information ...
If you really want to keep the author tags at all, I'd say there is
very little point in obfuscating it. Most bots will probably parse
the schema anyway - and general@jakarta.apache.org is scattered to so
many places that having it inside the author tags won't add any damage
IMHO.
>> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
>
> At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
> would be one of them :)
> -- external resources to apache.org domain
This is to broad to me for a general "I'll add some unless anybody
objects". I'd like to know which you'll add unless anybody objects.
Stefan
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:32:31 +0100
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> > Also, at the same time, i'd like to perform the clean-up things upon
> > "jakarta-site2" module -- <author
> > email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache Jakarta
> > Project</author>
> Why not simply remove the author completely?
I am afraid it that people can not easily find this:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html#Feedback
- where to contact.
remove -> append
would be harder than
keep/modify -> remove
-- so, i'd like to remain/put the author
elements in XMLs for a while.
> Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
At least, I guess robert is considering planetapache
would be one of them :)
-- external resources to apache.org domain
Sincerly,
-- Tetsuya <te...@apache.org>
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> I think it that perhaps we can use
> "Sister Resources"
> title on the left-side nav @ each jakarta.apache pages.
>
> I'll perform such a change if i can see no objections here.
> (next week)
Depends on what you consider a sister resource.
> Also, at the same time, i'd like to perform the clean-up things upon
> "jakarta-site2" module -- <author
> email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache Jakarta
> Project</author>
Why not simply remove the author completely?
Stefan
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Re: [site] Sister Resources
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I think it that perhaps we can use
"Sister Resources"
title on the left-side nav @ each jakarta.apache pages.
# Perhaps we might be able to encourage "offshore"
# developments, repo etc. ;-)
You can see "Sister Projects" desciption @ www.apache.org
pages (PHP etc.). There's nice precedent for such.
I'll perform such a change if i can see no objections here.
(next week)
Also, at the same time, i'd like to perform the clean-up things upon
"jakarta-site2" module --
<author email="general.AT.jakarta.DOT.apache.DOT.org">Apache Jakarta Project</author>
at /document/properties/author elements in every XML files in /xdocs/
-- in order to protect privacy of contributors etc..
I've performed the same thing upon "site" module,
already - for www.apache.org.
Cheers,
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S. Created http://www.apachenews.org/
--
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:33:17 +0900
(Subject: Re: [site] Translated (Web) -> Unofficial Resources...?)
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> Agreed. Go ahead. (Or, i will do it by myself ;-)
> 'Community Resources (Unofficial)' is very nice naming.
> News Blog (currently - http://www.terra-intl.com/tetsuya/)
> perhaps can join. I'd like to *experiment* for a while.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:23:50 +0000
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
> > at the moment, we have a section on the jakarta navigation bar that's
> > titled 'Translated (Web)'. i've been wondering whether it might be
> > better to rename this to something like 'Community Resources
> > (Unofficial)'. this would make it clear that (though we're very
> > grateful for these sites), they are not officially endorsed
> > translations.
> >
> > later, we might think about adding other unofficial resources (such as
> > planetapache) to the menu.
> >
> > - robert
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Re: [site] Translated (Web) -> Unofficial Resources...?
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@nifty.com>.
Agreed. Go ahead. (Or, i will do it by myself ;-)
'Community Resources (Unofficial)' is very nice naming.
News Blog (currently - http://www.terra-intl.com/tetsuya/)
perhaps can join. I'd like to *experiment* for a while.
Cheers,
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:23:50 +0000
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> at the moment, we have a section on the jakarta navigation bar that's
> titled 'Translated (Web)'. i've been wondering whether it might be
> better to rename this to something like 'Community Resources
> (Unofficial)'. this would make it clear that (though we're very
> grateful for these sites), they are not officially endorsed
> translations.
>
> later, we might think about adding other unofficial resources (such as
> planetapache) to the menu.
>
> - robert
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