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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org> on 2004/03/09 12:10:43 UTC
[CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> In the next few days I'm going to rename Woody to Cocoon Forms. So
> please don't commit into the Woody block any more as it will be
> removed afterwards. Expect results by the end of next week (and not
> before Monday afternoon).
>
> Here are the new names (latest status summing up the recent discussion):
>
> Block Title: Cocoon Forms
> Block Name: forms
> Package: org.apache.cocoon.forms
> Namespace: http://apache.org/cocoon/forms/1.0#definition
> <http://apache.org/cocoon/forms/1.0#definition>
> NS Prefix: fd
>
> Reinhard
>
The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
- update Unit tests by somebody who is familiar with them
- update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
- test the new 'forms' block and the Petstore whether everything works well
- test the Ant task that updates Woody projects
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming?
> I know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the
> old block a grace period of at least two weeks.
Why? We have "cvs -D yesterday" :-)
Vadim
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming? I
> know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the old
> block a grace period of at least two weeks.
or more!
we are changing this for community dynamics, but we DO NOT want to screw
our users since we did already release this (even if an alpha block).
As long as everybody understands that that block is going to go away,
it's safe to leave it there for a few more releases, IMHO.
--
Stefano.
[CocoonForms] Woody available again
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:53 Europe/Zurich, Steven Noels a écrit :
>>
>>> ...Thanks for your brave effort!
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, let's not forget this: big THANKS Reinhard for your work!
>
>
>
> Sure: THANKS Reinhard!
You're welcome :-)
>
> Sylvain, wondering how long the "thanks" thread will be ;-)
Can be long enough ;-)
---
Woody is in CVS again.
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:53 Europe/Zurich, Steven Noels a écrit :
>
>> ...Thanks for your brave effort!
>
>
> Yes, let's not forget this: big THANKS Reinhard for your work!
Sure: THANKS Reinhard!
Sylvain, wondering how long the "thanks" thread will be ;-)
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:53 Europe/Zurich, Steven Noels a écrit :
> ...Thanks for your brave effort!
Yes, let's not forget this: big THANKS Reinhard for your work!
-Bertrand
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 09 Mar 2004, at 13:17, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>>
>>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming?
>> I know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the
>> old block a grace period of at least two weeks.
>>
>> </Steven>
>
> Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but if
> somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
No sweat. It's just that I was aware of some production installations
living very close to the CVS HEAD edge.
Thanks for your brave effort!
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Jorg Heymans <jh...@domek.be>.
Deprecating before removing seems the best option if you care about the
installed userbase... Just keep both of them for one more release so
people can assess the work involved in migrating.
It's the more "gentle" approach :-)
Jorg
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Guido Casper wrote:
>
>> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>
>>> But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
>>> release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vadim, I (kindly :-) ask you to revert your -1. I have a project using
>> Woody running on 2.1.4 (not CVS head) and that would force me to
>> upgrade to 2.1.5 AND CForms at the same time while I would prefer
>> doing it seperately.
>>
>> +1 to remove it in 2.1.6
>
>
>
> Ummm... If I'm alone in this, I can change to -0 :-)
> WDOT?
>
> Vadim
>
>
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
> <RT>
> Maybe somehting we should indroduce anyway. An upgrade script!
> Would be cool do have it associated with the changes file.
> </RT>
Yes, I've already started it. See ./tools/targets/upgrade-build.xml.
Currently only the Woody2CocoonForms upgarde script is in but I hope
more follows soon. As we're an XML-framework we should have many
possiblities to support our users with those scripts ;-)
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
Guido Casper wrote:
> Torsten Curdt wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't one be able to keep the old block
>> and use 2.1.5-dev? ...as an interim solution?
>
>
> Yes, I can live with that. But I think it's not a good sign for our
> users. A user should have a chance to migrate while using a released
> version.
Hm... I hear you - and agree in general. But AFAIK woody is not yet
marked stable. Plus it's quite a commong thing that you might need
to call an upgrade script after an upgrade. Since we are not deprecating
any functionality I *personally* don't see a big problem in this
particular case ...as long as the upgrade script does all the work.
<RT>
Maybe somehting we should indroduce anyway. An upgrade script!
Would be cool do have it associated with the changes file.
</RT>
cheers
--
Torsten
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 09 Mar 2004, at 15:59, Guido Casper wrote:
> Torsten Curdt wrote:
>> Shouldn't one be able to keep the old block
>> and use 2.1.5-dev? ...as an interim solution?
>
> Yes, I can live with that. But I think it's not a good sign for our
> users. A user should have a chance to migrate while using a released
> version.
+1 - and I think most of us who have production users will agree with
that. I don't want to slow down the process, but also don't want to
lose users by force-feeding them migration work they haven't catered
for. This is just a temporary solution, and in due time new features
will emerge from the official cforms branch that will make them do the
switch at their own pace.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Guido Casper <gc...@s-und-n.de>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Shouldn't one be able to keep the old block
> and use 2.1.5-dev? ...as an interim solution?
Yes, I can live with that. But I think it's not a good sign for our
users. A user should have a chance to migrate while using a released
version.
Guido
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
>>> But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
>>> release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vadim, I (kindly :-) ask you to revert your -1. I have a project using
>> Woody running on 2.1.4 (not CVS head) and that would force me to
>> upgrade to 2.1.5 AND CForms at the same time while I would prefer
>> doing it seperately.
>>
>> +1 to remove it in 2.1.6
>
>
>
> Ummm... If I'm alone in this, I can change to -0 :-)
> WDOT?
You are not alone ...shipping with both does not
feel very good. Although I do understand Guido's
situation I have to give it a -0.5
Shouldn't one be able to keep the old block
and use 2.1.5-dev? ...as an interim solution?
Since woody got pretty mainstream ...providing
an upgrade script would be good. We more an
more need to care about stuff like this in the
future ...IMHO
cheers
--
Torsten
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
> Please guys try my Ant tasks, it should do most of the work for you. If
> not, report back or fix it pls!
Oh ...you already created an ant task for it?! Great!
Woody-in-production-user, do guys still need a grace
period then?
cheers
--
Torsten
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Guido Casper wrote:
>
>> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>
>>> But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
>>> release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vadim, I (kindly :-) ask you to revert your -1. I have a project
>> using Woody running on 2.1.4 (not CVS head) and that would force me
>> to upgrade to 2.1.5 AND CForms at the same time while I would prefer
>> doing it seperately.
>>
>> +1 to remove it in 2.1.6
>
>
>
> Ummm... If I'm alone in this, I can change to -0 :-)
> WDOT?
I would have(ääähm I have) removed it now but I haven't thought of those
who use the ParanoidCocoonServlet and refer directly to Cocoon CVS. I
think we should give them some time but finally I want it to be removed.
Simply, it doesn't make sense to have two versions in a *CVS*.
Please guys try my Ant tasks, it should do most of the work for you. If
not, report back or fix it pls!
So I'm +1 releasing Cocoon 2.1.5 with a deprecated Woody and a big
warning in the release notes and Cocoon 2.1.6 shouldn't contain Woody
any more.
(Especially those who always use the latest features of CocoonForms will
upgrade to the latest version because development simply goes on ;-)
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Guido Casper wrote:
> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>> But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
>> release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
>
>
> Vadim, I (kindly :-) ask you to revert your -1. I have a project using
> Woody running on 2.1.4 (not CVS head) and that would force me to
> upgrade to 2.1.5 AND CForms at the same time while I would prefer
> doing it seperately.
>
> +1 to remove it in 2.1.6
Ummm... If I'm alone in this, I can change to -0 :-)
WDOT?
Vadim
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Guido Casper <gc...@s-und-n.de>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>
>
> ...
>
>>> Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but if
>>> somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh yes, *please*, *please*, because this instantly breaks all
>> applications that use woody and the latest CVS !!!!
>
>
>
> I'm missing something... Don't use the latest CVS then, stick to
> yesterday's version?
>
> But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
> release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
Vadim, I (kindly :-) ask you to revert your -1. I have a project using
Woody running on 2.1.4 (not CVS head) and that would force me to upgrade
to 2.1.5 AND CForms at the same time while I would prefer doing it
seperately.
+1 to remove it in 2.1.6
Guido
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
...
>> Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but if
>> somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
>
>
> Oh yes, *please*, *please*, because this instantly breaks all
> applications that use woody and the latest CVS !!!!
I'm missing something... Don't use the latest CVS then, stick to
yesterday's version?
But, either way this ends up, I'm -1 on keeping both blocks in the
release. This means the block must be removed before end of month.
Vadim
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:17 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
> ...Uh? The blocks _will_ diverge as woody is stopped whereas cforms
> starts its life!
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant what you understood below ;-)
> A solution to enforce this is to lock the woody directory, either
> through CVS lock or by removing write permissions on the repository
> directory.
+1, effectively freezing the woody block, that's what I meant
-Bertrand
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 13:57 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
>
>> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ...Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but
>>> if somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
>>
>>
>> ...What would be better, IMO, is to leave the woody block as is, but
>> mark it as deprecated and clearly indicate the migration in samples.
>
>
> Fine, but we must then watch CVS commit messages to make sure the
> woody block does not diverge from the forms block while both are present.
Uh? The blocks _will_ diverge as woody is stopped whereas cforms starts
its life!
A solution to enforce this is to lock the woody directory, either
through CVS lock or by removing write permissions on the repository
directory.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 13:57 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
>
>> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ...Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but
>>> if somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...What would be better, IMO, is to leave the woody block as is, but
>> mark it as deprecated and clearly indicate the migration in samples.
>
>
> Fine, but we must then watch CVS commit messages to make sure the woody
> block does not diverge from the forms block while both are present.
we can make it read only ;-)
--
Stefano.
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 13:57 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>>
>> ...Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but
>> if somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
>
>
> ...What would be better, IMO, is to leave the woody block as is, but
> mark it as deprecated and clearly indicate the migration in samples.
Fine, but we must then watch CVS commit messages to make sure the woody
block does not diverge from the forms block while both are present.
-Bertrand
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>>
>>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
>>
*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH* !!!!
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming?
>> I know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the
>> old block a grace period of at least two weeks.
>>
>> </Steven>
>
>
> Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but if
> somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
Oh yes, *please*, *please*, because this instantly breaks all
applications that use woody and the latest CVS !!!!
And I guess many people are in this situation. At least I am.
What would be better, IMO, is to leave the woody block as is, but mark
it as deprecated and clearly indicate the migration in samples.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming?
> I know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the
> old block a grace period of at least two weeks.
>
> </Steven>
Sorry for this. I thought there was no need for the old block but if
somebody needs it we can revert the removal.
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 09 Mar 2004, at 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ouch - are you sure this was needed *immediately after* the renaming? I
know this eventually needed to be done, but I would have given the old
block a grace period of at least two weeks.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 09.03.2004 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
>> - update Unit tests by somebody who is familiar with them
>> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
>> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
>> - test the new 'forms' block and the Petstore whether everything
>> works well
>> - test the Ant task that updates Woody projects
>
>
> Though there is a bit of work needed for the stylesheets, JS, and CSS
> (e.g. 'woody-submit-id') thanks you very much for your massive effort.
>
> Joerg
>
Yes sorry, forget to mention those things. I wanted to unfreeze Cocoon
Forms ASAP.
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>.
On 09.03.2004 12:10, Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
> - update Unit tests by somebody who is familiar with them
> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
> - test the new 'forms' block and the Petstore whether everything works well
> - test the Ant task that updates Woody projects
Though there is a bit of work needed for the stylesheets, JS, and CSS
(e.g. 'woody-submit-id') thanks you very much for your massive effort.
Joerg
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Upayavira wrote:
> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> ...
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
>> ...
>> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
>> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
>
>
> I can rename the pages on the new Wiki to be FormBinding instead of
> WoodyBinding. This would be trivial for me as a part of the conversion.
>
> I won't change the content of the pages though. That would be quite a
> bit more complicated.
>
> Agree?
Yes of course.
If it helps have a look at cocoon-2.1/tools/targets/upgrade-build.xml
which contains the upgrade script (Ant) that contains all changes. There
aren't that many changes (mainly namespaces, some component names and
flowscript functions) and you might integrate them into your script as well.
--
Reinhard
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 16:39 Europe/Zurich, Upayavira a écrit :
>
>> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
>>> ...
>>> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
>>> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
>>
>>
>> I can rename the pages on the new Wiki to be FormBinding instead of
>> WoodyBinding. This would be trivial for me as a part of the >
>> conversion.
>>
>> I won't change the content of the pages though. That would be quite a
>> bit more complicated.
>
>
> Did you store intermediate pages as text files? If so, it would be
> fairly easy to replace "woody" words by "forms" words with a few sed
> pipelines.
>
> Much less work than doing it manually later on the wiki IMHO. I can
> help with the sed stuff if needed (but not before Thursday).
It's all done in Perl. So if someone supplies me with s/Woody/Forms/g;
statements, I'll happily add them!
Regards, Upayavira
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 16:39 Europe/Zurich, Upayavira a écrit :
> Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> ...
>
>> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
>> ...
>> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
>> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
>
> I can rename the pages on the new Wiki to be FormBinding instead of
> WoodyBinding. This would be trivial for me as a part of the > conversion.
>
> I won't change the content of the pages though. That would be quite a
> bit more complicated.
Did you store intermediate pages as text files? If so, it would be
fairly easy to replace "woody" words by "forms" words with a few sed
pipelines.
Much less work than doing it manually later on the wiki IMHO. I can
help with the sed stuff if needed (but not before Thursday).
WDYT?
-Bertrand
Re: [CocoonForms] END of code freeze
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@upaya.co.uk>.
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
...
> The new forms block is in CVS and Woody removed. Open tasks:
> ...
> - update Wiki pages (maybe we can do this automatically in some
> parts with moving Wiki to Apache infrastructure)
I can rename the pages on the new Wiki to be FormBinding instead of
WoodyBinding. This would be trivial for me as a part of the conversion.
I won't change the content of the pages though. That would be quite a
bit more complicated.
Agree?
Regards, Upayavira