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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Thomas Horn <th...@googlemail.com> on 2011/11/20 18:44:45 UTC
Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Hi all,
I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
Greetings from
Thomas
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 20.11.11 18:44, schrieb Thomas Horn:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
This is not true for sure. You will not get a sponsor emptry in Apache
OpenOffice. If Team OpenOffice.org offer a sponsor emptry in there owen
product, it's a other case.
There Team OpenOffice.org has to search a other solution.
>
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
Team OpenOffice.org is not ASF. So they are a different organisation who
try to get money to found Developer
>
> Greetings from
> Thomas
>
--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 20, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Thomas Horn wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
This offer has nothing to do with the Apache Software Foundation which owns the OpenOffice.org trademark.
Team OpenOffice.org has been asked to remove fundraising that confuses trademarks. It has not happened. This is very unfortunate.
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
This is exactly why Team OOo must modify their website.
>
> Greetings from
> Thomas
Thanks.
Dave
RE: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Clarification: I don't believe there is any suggestion of payments for the software. It is more about seeking donations and sponsorships, with the ill-advised promise of an honor roll in the distribution of OO.o 3.4 itself. There is even promotion of the notion that donations will keep OO.o free.
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:asf@shanecurcuru.org]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 17:19
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
[ ... ]
At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
*never* charge for either our source code our or project's software
product releases.
Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for
any ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
- Shane
On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>
> Greetings from
> Thomas
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Stefan Taxhet <st...@gmail.com>.
Hi Rob, All,
We are sorry for the confusion caused by our website. In the meantime we
took the English pages down and started the rework with the German
pages. Your and Shane's separately sent input will guide us during the
creation of the revised content.
Greetings
Stefan
Am 21.11.2011 17:14, schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Martin Hollmichel
> <ma...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Shane,
>>
>> the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
>> reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
>> guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
>>
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Before anyone cuts my head off, let me preface my remarks by stating
> that this is my personal view, which others on the project may agree
> or disagree with. Personally, I agree with your high level goals, at
> least as I understand them. So I want you to succeed here. But I did
> review the http://teamopenoffice.org/en/ website yesterday and noted
> the following areas that appeared problematic to me. IANAL, of
> course, but I think these areas should be addressed:
>
> 1) Apache owns the trademark on the blue& black text OpenOffice.org +
> birds logo. The Team OpenOffice uses this logo on their home page
> without
> permission from Apache.
>
> 2) Apache owns the trademark on the name "OpenOffice.org". This name
> and its common abbreviation "OOo" are used throughout the website
> without permission.
>
> 3) Use of the confusingly similar name "Team OpenOffice" without
> disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the Apache OpenOffice
> project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> 4) The pervasive claims that Team OpenOffice is "saving
> OpenOffice.org" without a disclaimer saying that they are not
> affiliated with the Apache
> OpenOffice project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> 5) No where on the website do we see acknowledgement that
> OpenOffice.org is a trademark of the ASF
>
> 6) The website suggested that donors/sponsors can get their names
> added to an OpenOffice.org release.
>
> I would certainly be supportive of Apache granting permission for some
> uses of the trademark by Team OpenOffice. But I think (again, my own
> personal opinion, so please everyone, stop sharpening those axes), the
> primary goals should be:
>
> 1) Make it clear to the visitor what the scope of Team OpenOffice
> activities are compared to Apache activities. Confusing these,
> especially in the context of fundraising, is going to cause problems.
>
> 2) Express your support of the Apache OpenOffice project and the
> larger ecosystem, which I believe is well-intentioned and serious,
> without blurring the distinction between what is Apache and what is
> Team OpenOffice.
>
> 3) Raising funds for your organization's activities, without using
> Apache-owned trademarks in a way that could be confused as expressing
> Apache support or participation in the fundraising.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>>>
>>> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the AOO
>>> podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number of
>>> registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of that
>>> website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar fundraising
>>> pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems from that page)
>>> to create what I can only imagine would be called OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease,
>>> and immediately start using a new, non-infringing name.
>>>
>>> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
>>> *never* charge for either our source code our or project's software product
>>> releases.
>>>
>>> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for any
>>> ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>>>
>>> - Shane
>>>
>>> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>>>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>>>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>>>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>>>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings from
>>>> Thomas
>>
>>
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Martin Hollmichel <ma...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
as said at other place, we are in the process of reworking the site, as
immidiate action I removed the logo now, please give us some few time
for review and rewrite wording,
thank you,
Martin
Am 21.11.2011 17:50, schrieb Ross Gardler:
> On 21 November 2011 16:14, Rob Weir<ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Martin Hollmichel
>> <ma...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Shane,
>>>
>>> the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
>>> reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
>>> guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
>>>
>>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> Before anyone cuts my head off, let me preface my remarks by stating
>> that this is my personal view, which others on the project may agree
>> or disagree with. Personally, I agree with your high level goals, at
>> least as I understand them. So I want you to succeed here. But I did
>> review the http://teamopenoffice.org/en/ website yesterday and noted
>> the following areas that appeared problematic to me. IANAL, of
>> course, but I think these areas should be addressed:
> Thanks Rob (I promise I've not got my ace in hand right now, your head
> is safe ;-)
>
> In general I agree with Rob's points here. All uses of Apache marks
> must be in conformance with the Apache Software Foundations trademark
> policy. This can be found at [1]
>
> If anyone needs any help with interpreting that policy this is the
> first place to ask.
>
> If anyone wants to seek permission not granted by that policy then the
> process is defined at [2]
>
> Ross
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/trademarks.html
>
>
>> 1) Apache owns the trademark on the blue& black text OpenOffice.org +
>> birds logo. The Team OpenOffice uses this logo on their home page
>> without
>> permission from Apache.
>>
>> 2) Apache owns the trademark on the name "OpenOffice.org". This name
>> and its common abbreviation "OOo" are used throughout the website
>> without permission.
>>
>> 3) Use of the confusingly similar name "Team OpenOffice" without
>> disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the Apache OpenOffice
>> project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>>
>> 4) The pervasive claims that Team OpenOffice is "saving
>> OpenOffice.org" without a disclaimer saying that they are not
>> affiliated with the Apache
>> OpenOffice project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>>
>> 5) No where on the website do we see acknowledgement that
>> OpenOffice.org is a trademark of the ASF
>>
>> 6) The website suggested that donors/sponsors can get their names
>> added to an OpenOffice.org release.
>>
>> I would certainly be supportive of Apache granting permission for some
>> uses of the trademark by Team OpenOffice. But I think (again, my own
>> personal opinion, so please everyone, stop sharpening those axes), the
>> primary goals should be:
>>
>> 1) Make it clear to the visitor what the scope of Team OpenOffice
>> activities are compared to Apache activities. Confusing these,
>> especially in the context of fundraising, is going to cause problems.
>>
>> 2) Express your support of the Apache OpenOffice project and the
>> larger ecosystem, which I believe is well-intentioned and serious,
>> without blurring the distinction between what is Apache and what is
>> Team OpenOffice.
>>
>> 3) Raising funds for your organization's activities, without using
>> Apache-owned trademarks in a way that could be confused as expressing
>> Apache support or participation in the fundraising.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>>>> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the AOO
>>>> podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number of
>>>> registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of that
>>>> website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar fundraising
>>>> pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems from that page)
>>>> to create what I can only imagine would be called OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease,
>>>> and immediately start using a new, non-infringing name.
>>>>
>>>> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
>>>> *never* charge for either our source code our or project's software product
>>>> releases.
>>>>
>>>> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for any
>>>> ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>>>>
>>>> - Shane
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>>>>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>>>>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>>>>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>>>>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings from
>>>>> Thomas
>>>
>
>
RE: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Thanks Pedro,
I agree, that Spanish donation page should not be under the openoffice.org domain.
Jürgen's proposal for a consistent contribution/participation page across all native language sub-sites is good.
I think Alexandro's approach is in the right spirit, but the donation solicitation and details of how to donate should be on an oooES site and not es.oo.o. I would hope that Alexandro can assist us in this and it would provide a model for any similar situation with any of the other NL pages.
A policy on linking to support organizations needs to be determined, perhaps with links on a single multi-lingual page that is maintained in only one place, with the top linkage being to the ASF donation page. I think there are creative ways to manage linking with clean separation between support and advocacy organizations and OO.o, with appropriate oversight by AOO on what is being linked to and how carefully that is done from OO.o.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Pedro Giffuni [mailto:pfg@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 07:59
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
--- On Tue, 11/22/11, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
...
>
> Changing or removing a PayPal button can't be a big issue.
>
+1, I can do it but will that mean I have to maintain it?
> I can't read Spanish and therefore i depend on a good
> explanation. But i
> would really appreciate if we as PPMC can agree on the
> content of all
> our pages or a least on a concept.
>
I will do a quick translation here:
OpenOffice.Org is made as a non-profit effort, however it
has a cost as the effort of many volunteers that contribute
their time to the proyect. You can also contribute your time as
a develoer (HTM, graphic desing, etc.) or as an end user (mailing, list, marketing, translations, etc. ).
But if you cannot contribute your time to the comunity, why not give
something back donating money?
Yo can help ensure the community keeps evolving making both type
of donations so this community keeps working for many years, Your
donations will help us take new challenges:
Hiring programmers
Sponsoring programmers for conferences
Developing extensions
Create a Spanish Spell Checker.
OpenOffice.Org is a registered trademark of the Apache Foundation.
The donations will go to the oooES organization that has no legal
relationship with the (Apache) Foundation.
(Then the prominent DONATION buttons)
You can contact directly the leader of the project
Alexandro Colorado
_________
Now .. what I don't like is:
- It's a donation page, not really useful for contributors.
- The Apache disclaimer is not very visible in relationship
with the very visible buttons and it's clearly insufficient:
there's no link to contribute to Apache.
- There is no hint if oooES has any foundation status or
if it's for-profit and it would appear to have support
from the ASF.
- Under no circumstance should we ask for money like this.
I would think the oooES people should have the independent
page and perhaps have a discrete link from the AOO site
but not something so prominent as this.
> I repeat myself that is the reason why i would prefer a
> common concept
> for all pages and move more individual language community
> pages into the
> wiki or somewhere else.
>
My concern with that is that I doubt we have sufficient
volunteers for such a task. OTOH, some sites have made a
great job: the italian site is outdated but has many
relevant links to the community.
Pedro
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 22 November 2011 11:36, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ross and all,
>
> Shall we use "native language" instead of "national language" please?
Yes - thanks for reminding me.
Ross
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> That is not to say there can't be national language support groups
>> with their own materials. But, at least in this transition stage we
>> should focus on getting the core content defined and translated.
>
> This is good. If the core contents are defined, we will be ready to
> translate them into Japanese using our Japanese mailing list,
> ooo-general-ja@incubator.apache.org and making a translation working
> page on the wiki.
>
> So we would like the mod_mbox to implement translation soon.
> https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52195
> :)
>
> Thanks,
> khirano
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ross and all,
Shall we use "native language" instead of "national language" please?
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> That is not to say there can't be national language support groups
> with their own materials. But, at least in this transition stage we
> should focus on getting the core content defined and translated.
This is good. If the core contents are defined, we will be ready to
translate them into Japanese using our Japanese mailing list,
ooo-general-ja@incubator.apache.org and making a translation working
page on the wiki.
So we would like the mod_mbox to implement translation soon.
https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52195
:)
Thanks,
khirano
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
2011/11/22 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>:
> On 11/21/11 10:12 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>
>> Alexandro started fixing the Spanish site, but there is more to do ...
>
> it would be interesting to know where the problem is and what the planned
> changes are. There are valid concerns about the page and i would really
> appreciate if Alexandro would describe what he want to change.
>
> Changing or removing a PayPal button can't be a big issue.
>
> I can't read Spanish and therefore i depend on a good explanation. But i
> would really appreciate if we as PPMC can agree on the content of all our
> pages or a least on a concept.
>
> I repeat myself that is the reason why i would prefer a common concept for
> all pages and move more individual language community pages into the wiki or
> somewhere else.
+1
I would have thought the best approach is for national language pages
to be translations of the English language pages with no significant
extra/different content.
That is not to say there can't be national language support groups
with their own materials. But, at least in this transition stage we
should focus on getting the core content defined and translated.
Ross
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Pedro,
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:44:20AM -0800, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> > I'm checking out
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es
> > Can one review the content and commit the changes directly
> > on svn? (I've
> > read there is some kind of web tool for this).
> >
>
> It's much easier!
> Check the Javascript bookmark mentioned here:
>
> https://blogs.apache.org/infra/entry/the_asf_cms
>
> You go to the webpage you want to edit and call
> the bookmark.
thanks, didn't know that bookmark. It took quite a lot to load the page.
As I didn't find a way to search for content there, I ended up vim and
grep ;)
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Pedro Giffuni <pf...@apache.org>.
Hi Ariel;
--- On Tue, 11/22/11, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I'm checking out
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es
> Can one review the content and commit the changes directly
> on svn? (I've
> read there is some kind of web tool for this).
>
It's much easier!
Check the Javascript bookmark mentioned here:
https://blogs.apache.org/infra/entry/the_asf_cms
You go to the webpage you want to edit and call
the bookmark.
enjoy,
Pedro.
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Jürgen, *,
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:05:07AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> On 11/21/11 10:12 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >Alexandro started fixing the Spanish site, but there is more to do ...
>
> it would be interesting to know where the problem is and what the
> planned changes are. There are valid concerns about the page and i
> would really appreciate if Alexandro would describe what he want to
> change.
>
> Changing or removing a PayPal button can't be a big issue.
it seems it's not only a button, but severals: today I crossed across
http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/comunidad/irc.html
http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/lecturas/lecturas_0020.html
the last one asking for 1000 U$S
> I can't read Spanish
I can :)
Anyway, using chrome to translate them to English gives an accurate idea
about what was going on.
> and therefore i depend on a good explanation.
> But i would really appreciate if we as PPMC can agree on the content
> of all our pages or a least on a concept.
this should be done ASAP, commiters have access to
http://ooo-site.apache.org/ but the old kenai site has very restricted
access for PPMC members. I don't find Alexandro's reluctance to change
http://ooo-site.apache.org/es as harmful as the fact that this content
is still on the main public site http://es.openoffice.org/ , where
only he has access to change it.
I'm checking out
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/es
Can one review the content and commit the changes directly on svn? (I've
read there is some kind of web tool for this).
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Pedro Giffuni <pf...@apache.org>.
--- On Tue, 11/22/11, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
...
>
> Changing or removing a PayPal button can't be a big issue.
>
+1, I can do it but will that mean I have to maintain it?
> I can't read Spanish and therefore i depend on a good
> explanation. But i
> would really appreciate if we as PPMC can agree on the
> content of all
> our pages or a least on a concept.
>
I will do a quick translation here:
OpenOffice.Org is made as a non-profit effort, however it
has a cost as the effort of many volunteers that contribute
their time to the proyect. You can also contribute your time as
a develoer (HTM, graphic desing, etc.) or as an end user (mailing, list, marketing, translations, etc. ).
But if you cannot contribute your time to the comunity, why not give
something back donating money?
Yo can help ensure the community keeps evolving making both type
of donations so this community keeps working for many years, Your
donations will help us take new challenges:
Hiring programmers
Sponsoring programmers for conferences
Developing extensions
Create a Spanish Spell Checker.
OpenOffice.Org is a registered trademark of the Apache Foundation.
The donations will go to the oooES organization that has no legal
relationship with the (Apache) Foundation.
(Then the prominent DONATION buttons)
You can contact directly the leader of the project
Alexandro Colorado
_________
Now .. what I don't like is:
- It's a donation page, not really useful for contributors.
- The Apache disclaimer is not very visible in relationship
with the very visible buttons and it's clearly insufficient:
there's no link to contribute to Apache.
- There is no hint if oooES has any foundation status or
if it's for-profit and it would appear to have support
from the ASF.
- Under no circumstance should we ask for money like this.
I would think the oooES people should have the independent
page and perhaps have a discrete link from the AOO site
but not something so prominent as this.
> I repeat myself that is the reason why i would prefer a
> common concept
> for all pages and move more individual language community
> pages into the
> wiki or somewhere else.
>
My concern with that is that I doubt we have sufficient
volunteers for such a task. OTOH, some sites have made a
great job: the italian site is outdated but has many
relevant links to the community.
Pedro
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
On 11/21/11 10:12 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Alexandro started fixing the Spanish site, but there is more to do ...
it would be interesting to know where the problem is and what the
planned changes are. There are valid concerns about the page and i would
really appreciate if Alexandro would describe what he want to change.
Changing or removing a PayPal button can't be a big issue.
I can't read Spanish and therefore i depend on a good explanation. But i
would really appreciate if we as PPMC can agree on the content of all
our pages or a least on a concept.
I repeat myself that is the reason why i would prefer a common concept
for all pages and move more individual language community pages into the
wiki or somewhere else.
Juergen
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Pedro Giffuni<pf...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hmm...
>>
>> Not pretending to defend or condemn anyone here,
>> but it would seem like SUN/Oracle had approved
>> some external uses of the trademark that the ASF
>> is not likely to approve.
>>
>> As long as they don't carry ASF logos we should
>> be patient and allow time for some transition
>> to go on.
>>
>> FWIW, I think what is going on the Spanish site
>> is much more problematic since it staged (still)
>> in an Apache domain:
>>
>> http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/lecturas/lecturas_0019.html
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Pedro.
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Alexandro started fixing the Spanish site, but there is more to do ...
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Pedro Giffuni <pf...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hmm...
>
> Not pretending to defend or condemn anyone here,
> but it would seem like SUN/Oracle had approved
> some external uses of the trademark that the ASF
> is not likely to approve.
>
> As long as they don't carry ASF logos we should
> be patient and allow time for some transition
> to go on.
>
> FWIW, I think what is going on the Spanish site
> is much more problematic since it staged (still)
> in an Apache domain:
>
> http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/lecturas/lecturas_0019.html
>
> cheers,
>
> Pedro.
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Pedro Giffuni <pf...@apache.org>.
Hmm...
Not pretending to defend or condemn anyone here,
but it would seem like SUN/Oracle had approved
some external uses of the trademark that the ASF
is not likely to approve.
As long as they don't carry ASF logos we should
be patient and allow time for some transition
to go on.
FWIW, I think what is going on the Spanish site
is much more problematic since it staged (still)
in an Apache domain:
http://ooo-site.apache.org/es/lecturas/lecturas_0019.html
cheers,
Pedro.
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 21 November 2011 16:14, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Martin Hollmichel
> <ma...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Shane,
>>
>> the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
>> reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
>> guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
>>
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Before anyone cuts my head off, let me preface my remarks by stating
> that this is my personal view, which others on the project may agree
> or disagree with. Personally, I agree with your high level goals, at
> least as I understand them. So I want you to succeed here. But I did
> review the http://teamopenoffice.org/en/ website yesterday and noted
> the following areas that appeared problematic to me. IANAL, of
> course, but I think these areas should be addressed:
Thanks Rob (I promise I've not got my ace in hand right now, your head
is safe ;-)
In general I agree with Rob's points here. All uses of Apache marks
must be in conformance with the Apache Software Foundations trademark
policy. This can be found at [1]
If anyone needs any help with interpreting that policy this is the
first place to ask.
If anyone wants to seek permission not granted by that policy then the
process is defined at [2]
Ross
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/trademarks.html
>
> 1) Apache owns the trademark on the blue & black text OpenOffice.org +
> birds logo. The Team OpenOffice uses this logo on their home page
> without
> permission from Apache.
>
> 2) Apache owns the trademark on the name "OpenOffice.org". This name
> and its common abbreviation "OOo" are used throughout the website
> without permission.
>
> 3) Use of the confusingly similar name "Team OpenOffice" without
> disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the Apache OpenOffice
> project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> 4) The pervasive claims that Team OpenOffice is "saving
> OpenOffice.org" without a disclaimer saying that they are not
> affiliated with the Apache
> OpenOffice project or the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> 5) No where on the website do we see acknowledgement that
> OpenOffice.org is a trademark of the ASF
>
> 6) The website suggested that donors/sponsors can get their names
> added to an OpenOffice.org release.
>
> I would certainly be supportive of Apache granting permission for some
> uses of the trademark by Team OpenOffice. But I think (again, my own
> personal opinion, so please everyone, stop sharpening those axes), the
> primary goals should be:
>
> 1) Make it clear to the visitor what the scope of Team OpenOffice
> activities are compared to Apache activities. Confusing these,
> especially in the context of fundraising, is going to cause problems.
>
> 2) Express your support of the Apache OpenOffice project and the
> larger ecosystem, which I believe is well-intentioned and serious,
> without blurring the distinction between what is Apache and what is
> Team OpenOffice.
>
> 3) Raising funds for your organization's activities, without using
> Apache-owned trademarks in a way that could be confused as expressing
> Apache support or participation in the fundraising.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>>>
>>> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the AOO
>>> podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number of
>>> registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of that
>>> website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar fundraising
>>> pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems from that page)
>>> to create what I can only imagine would be called OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease,
>>> and immediately start using a new, non-infringing name.
>>>
>>> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
>>> *never* charge for either our source code our or project's software product
>>> releases.
>>>
>>> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for any
>>> ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>>>
>>> - Shane
>>>
>>> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>>>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>>>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>>>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>>>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings from
>>>> Thomas
>>
>>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Martin Hollmichel
<ma...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Shane,
>
> the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
> reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
> guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
>
Hi Martin,
Before anyone cuts my head off, let me preface my remarks by stating
that this is my personal view, which others on the project may agree
or disagree with. Personally, I agree with your high level goals, at
least as I understand them. So I want you to succeed here. But I did
review the http://teamopenoffice.org/en/ website yesterday and noted
the following areas that appeared problematic to me. IANAL, of
course, but I think these areas should be addressed:
1) Apache owns the trademark on the blue & black text OpenOffice.org +
birds logo. The Team OpenOffice uses this logo on their home page
without
permission from Apache.
2) Apache owns the trademark on the name "OpenOffice.org". This name
and its common abbreviation "OOo" are used throughout the website
without permission.
3) Use of the confusingly similar name "Team OpenOffice" without
disclaimer stating they are not affiliated with the Apache OpenOffice
project or the Apache Software Foundation.
4) The pervasive claims that Team OpenOffice is "saving
OpenOffice.org" without a disclaimer saying that they are not
affiliated with the Apache
OpenOffice project or the Apache Software Foundation.
5) No where on the website do we see acknowledgement that
OpenOffice.org is a trademark of the ASF
6) The website suggested that donors/sponsors can get their names
added to an OpenOffice.org release.
I would certainly be supportive of Apache granting permission for some
uses of the trademark by Team OpenOffice. But I think (again, my own
personal opinion, so please everyone, stop sharpening those axes), the
primary goals should be:
1) Make it clear to the visitor what the scope of Team OpenOffice
activities are compared to Apache activities. Confusing these,
especially in the context of fundraising, is going to cause problems.
2) Express your support of the Apache OpenOffice project and the
larger ecosystem, which I believe is well-intentioned and serious,
without blurring the distinction between what is Apache and what is
Team OpenOffice.
3) Raising funds for your organization's activities, without using
Apache-owned trademarks in a way that could be confused as expressing
Apache support or participation in the fundraising.
Regards,
-Rob
> Martin
>
> On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>>
>> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the AOO
>> podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number of
>> registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of that
>> website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar fundraising
>> pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems from that page)
>> to create what I can only imagine would be called OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease,
>> and immediately start using a new, non-infringing name.
>>
>> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
>> *never* charge for either our source code our or project's software product
>> releases.
>>
>> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for any
>> ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>>
>>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>>
>>> Greetings from
>>> Thomas
>
>
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 2011-11-21 6:46 AM, Martin Hollmichel wrote:
> Shane,
>
> the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
> reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
> guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
>
> Martin
This is a good starting point:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#integrateswith
Note that OpenOffice.org, the OpenOffice.org logo, and various other OOo
related marks are registered trademarks of the ASF in the US and many
other countries.
- Shane
>
> On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the
>> AOO podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number
>> of registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of
>> that website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar
>> fundraising pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems
>> from that page) to create what I can only imagine would be called
>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease, and immediately start using a new,
>> non-infringing name.
>>
>> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF
>> will *never* charge for either our source code our or project's
>> software product releases.
>>
>> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for
>> any ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>>
>>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>>
>>> Greetings from
>>> Thomas
>
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Martin Hollmichel <ma...@googlemail.com>.
Shane,
the reference to the Apache Project is required here, agreed. We are
reworking the content of the pages to make the message more clear, your
guidance on how to point to Apache OpenOffice project is appreciated here,
Martin
On 11/21/11 2:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the
> AOO podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number
> of registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of
> that website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar
> fundraising pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems
> from that page) to create what I can only imagine would be called
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease, and immediately start using a new,
> non-infringing name.
>
> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF
> will *never* charge for either our source code our or project's
> software product releases.
>
> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for
> any ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>
> - Shane
>
> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>
>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>
>> Greetings from
>> Thomas
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 20, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the AOO podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number of registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of that website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar fundraising pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems from that page) to create what I can only imagine would be called OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease, and immediately start using a new, non-infringing name.
>
> At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will *never* charge for either our source code our or project's software product releases.
>
> Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for any ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
>
> - Shane
>
> On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
>> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
>> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>>
>> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
>> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
>> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>>
>> Greetings from
>> Thomas
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Note that the listed page is in no way associated with the ASF nor the
AOO podling, and as best I can tell is directly infringing on a number
of registered trademarks of the ASF. I will be sending the admins of
that website an email shortly demanding that that page and similar
fundraising pages are taken down, and that their attempts (as it seems
from that page) to create what I can only imagine would be called
OpenOffice.org 3.4 cease, and immediately start using a new,
non-infringing name.
At the ASF, our software is *always* free (as in no cost); the ASF will
*never* charge for either our source code our or project's software
product releases.
Any time you see someone stating or implying that you need to pay for
any ASF-hosted code you should be suspicious.
- Shane
On 2011-11-20 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>
> Greetings from
> Thomas
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Thomas Horn wrote on Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 18:44:45 +0100:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
You can't. The only ASF-permitted "pay us and your name will be
displayed" is
http://www.apache.org/foundation/sponsorship
http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks
Re: Source Code Sponsor of OOo
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Thomas Horn
<th...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've read on http://teamopenoffice.org/en/become-a-partner.html that
> you could become a "Source Code Sponsor" with your named displayed in
> OpenOffice.org 3.4 by paying EUR 5000.
>
> Do you really thinks that this is a good idea? I think that will lower
> the neutrality of the Apache Foundation as I before wasn't under the
> impression that you could buy yourself into Apache software.
>
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for letting us know about this. "Team OpenOffice" is not
affiliated with Apache or the Apache OpenOffice project. Your note
confirms that this is confusing, and indicates that we should be more
diligent in ensuring that the OpenOffice.org trademark is not abused
by 3rd parties.
Regards,
-Rob
> Greetings from
> Thomas
>