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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Vy Ho <st...@drexel.edu> on 2003/04/06 20:29:02 UTC
STRUTS
This maybe off topic a bit. However, I think the audience of this
mailing listing probably the best place to ask.
First, I am sorry to those who feel offended by this. This is just pure
technical discussion, no mean to offend any one. Opposite view is
appreciated.
I tried out couple tutorial of STRUTS. My feeling is that this technolog
is overly complicated. It's like killing an ant with a machine gun.
It takes so much to just output a "hello world" web page the STRUTS way.
Yes, one may argue that "hello world" example is just an illustration,
you reap the benefit when the project is big. Yes, I see. But, my
impression is that STRUTS does not scale well in the learning curve or
amount of work.
Here is what I mean:
If you look at C, C++, Java, Model View Controller, SQL, database (such
as JDBC) techonologies, they scales very well with the learning curve.
If you want to do little, it's little to learn, and very little to do to
get it to work (couple lines of code, couple things here and there).
Struts is different. In solving the real world problem, no question
about it (because I don't have much experience with it), but in learning
curve, and amount of work, it does not scale well for small app.
This implies: if you want to build a hello world, then use perl, or
simple jsp, dear. But once your app get biggers, then use Struts.
I wonder if there's other technology that makes this easier. (tutorial
from Sun's new tag support does not seem to alleviate much).
In summary, killing an ant, or an elephant, struts would do it. But
learning to hold the strut gun won't be easy or simple or quikc for
whatever you want to do.
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Re: using a MySQL remote database
Posted by ku...@inwind.it.
Hello,
the error was simply that i wasnt calling the newInstance() on Class.forName
(mysql_class_driver),
i added that and now it is working.
Sorry for my silly error :)
Anyway many thanks, Tomcat is nicely supported by you all!
Greetings,
groton
-----Messaggio Originale-----
Da: "Jon Wingfield" <jo...@mkodo.com>
A: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Data invio: martedì 8 aprile 2003 12.05
Oggetto: Re: using a MySQL remote database
> And you're specifying a port?
>
> this connection string works for me:
> jdbc:mysql://remote.server:3306/dbname
>
> Of course the mysql user must have permission to access the database
> from your app server box. Check the user permissions defined in the
> mysql database of your mysql instance.
>
>
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_MySQL_Database_Adm
inistration.html#Connection_access
>
> HTH,
>
> Jon
>
> kurtc@inwind.it wrote:
> > Ok, i followed both the tips by Greg and this one in the email at the
bottom
> > of this email ( :) ),
> > but with no success.
> > I did exactly what the README (containbed in the MySQL connector
archive)
> > explains:
> >
> > snip from the README file:
> > ================================
> > Issue:
> > "My application throws a SQLException 'No Suitable Driver'".
> > Resolution:
> > One of two things are happening. Either the driver is not in
> > your CLASSPATH (see the "USAGE AND INSTALLATION" section above), or
your
> > URL format is incoorect (once again see "USAGE AND INSTALLATION").
> > ================================
> >
> > Eh, that error above is the error i got!
> > Although I installed correctly the connector for MySQL in TomCat, im
still
> > getting the errors above. Reading again the USAGE AND INSTALLATION will
not
> > help me.
> >
> > Finally I tryed to copy the jar containing the MySQL connector every
where
> > in the "lib"s dirs, i also had extracted the class files contained in
that
> > .jar in all the "classes" dirs, and still getting those error :|
> >
> > Any help? Or Any other way to connect to a MySQL server? Notice that
using
> > others servlet containers like Orion it works perfectly :o
> > luca
> >
> > Da: "dwightHugget" <ja...@concentric.net>
> > A: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>;
<ku...@inwind.it>
> > Data invio: domenica 6 aprile 2003 23.15
> > Oggetto: Re: using a MySQL remote database
> >
> >
> > On Sunday 06 April 2003 10:43, kurtc@inwind.it professed:
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that with
> >
> > ORION
> >
> >>with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
> >>shared/lib but accessing the database (using
> >> DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
> >>username, password); ), i get always the error:
> >>
> >>SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
> >>SQLSTATE = 08001
> >>
> >>Any help?
> >>
> >>luca
> >>
>
>
>
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Re: using a MySQL remote database
Posted by Jon Wingfield <jo...@mkodo.com>.
And you're specifying a port?
this connection string works for me:
jdbc:mysql://remote.server:3306/dbname
Of course the mysql user must have permission to access the database
from your app server box. Check the user permissions defined in the
mysql database of your mysql instance.
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_MySQL_Database_Administration.html#Connection_access
HTH,
Jon
kurtc@inwind.it wrote:
> Ok, i followed both the tips by Greg and this one in the email at the bottom
> of this email ( :) ),
> but with no success.
> I did exactly what the README (containbed in the MySQL connector archive)
> explains:
>
> snip from the README file:
> ================================
> Issue:
> "My application throws a SQLException 'No Suitable Driver'".
> Resolution:
> One of two things are happening. Either the driver is not in
> your CLASSPATH (see the "USAGE AND INSTALLATION" section above), or your
> URL format is incoorect (once again see "USAGE AND INSTALLATION").
> ================================
>
> Eh, that error above is the error i got!
> Although I installed correctly the connector for MySQL in TomCat, im still
> getting the errors above. Reading again the USAGE AND INSTALLATION will not
> help me.
>
> Finally I tryed to copy the jar containing the MySQL connector every where
> in the "lib"s dirs, i also had extracted the class files contained in that
> .jar in all the "classes" dirs, and still getting those error :|
>
> Any help? Or Any other way to connect to a MySQL server? Notice that using
> others servlet containers like Orion it works perfectly :o
> luca
>
> Da: "dwightHugget" <ja...@concentric.net>
> A: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>; <ku...@inwind.it>
> Data invio: domenica 6 aprile 2003 23.15
> Oggetto: Re: using a MySQL remote database
>
>
> On Sunday 06 April 2003 10:43, kurtc@inwind.it professed:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that with
>
> ORION
>
>>with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
>>shared/lib but accessing the database (using
>> DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
>>username, password); ), i get always the error:
>>
>>SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
>>SQLSTATE = 08001
>>
>>Any help?
>>
>>luca
>>
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Re: using a MySQL remote database
Posted by ku...@inwind.it.
Ok, i followed both the tips by Greg and this one in the email at the bottom
of this email ( :) ),
but with no success.
I did exactly what the README (containbed in the MySQL connector archive)
explains:
snip from the README file:
================================
Issue:
"My application throws a SQLException 'No Suitable Driver'".
Resolution:
One of two things are happening. Either the driver is not in
your CLASSPATH (see the "USAGE AND INSTALLATION" section above), or your
URL format is incoorect (once again see "USAGE AND INSTALLATION").
================================
Eh, that error above is the error i got!
Although I installed correctly the connector for MySQL in TomCat, im still
getting the errors above. Reading again the USAGE AND INSTALLATION will not
help me.
Finally I tryed to copy the jar containing the MySQL connector every where
in the "lib"s dirs, i also had extracted the class files contained in that
.jar in all the "classes" dirs, and still getting those error :|
Any help? Or Any other way to connect to a MySQL server? Notice that using
others servlet containers like Orion it works perfectly :o
luca
Da: "dwightHugget" <ja...@concentric.net>
A: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>; <ku...@inwind.it>
Data invio: domenica 6 aprile 2003 23.15
Oggetto: Re: using a MySQL remote database
On Sunday 06 April 2003 10:43, kurtc@inwind.it professed:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that with
ORION
> with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
> shared/lib but accessing the database (using
> DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
> username, password); ), i get always the error:
>
> SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
> SQLSTATE = 08001
>
> Any help?
>
> luca
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc-stable.html
--
Dwight Hugget
http://www.dmhEnterprise.com
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Re: using a MySQL remote database
Posted by dwightHugget <ja...@concentric.net>.
On Sunday 06 April 2003 10:43, kurtc@inwind.it professed:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that with ORION
> with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
> shared/lib but accessing the database (using
> DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
> username, password); ), i get always the error:
>
> SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
> SQLSTATE = 08001
>
> Any help?
>
> luca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/api-jdbc-stable.html
--
Dwight Hugget
http://www.dmhEnterprise.com
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Re: Apache Redirect to Tomcat
Posted by John Turner <to...@johnturner.com>.
Most likely you do not have a correct virtual host in server.xml. Just as
you must define a virtual host with a name of mydomain.com in Apache's
httpd.conf, so must you define one in server.xml.
John
On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:49:15 -0400, RK Paleru <rp...@uncc.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My Apache is connected to Tomcat using Mod_JK. The redirect from Tomcat
> works fine when I access from local machine i.e.,
> http://localhost/my_webapp/my_servlet
>
> however, when I try from the internet.....
>
> http://mydomain.com/my_webapp/my_servlet does not work.
>
> The static content gets served fine by Apache....any help will be
> appreciated.
>
> regards
>
> RK
>
>
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>
>
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Apache Redirect to Tomcat
Posted by RK Paleru <rp...@uncc.edu>.
Hi,
My Apache is connected to Tomcat using Mod_JK. The redirect from Tomcat
works fine when I access from local machine i.e.,
http://localhost/my_webapp/my_servlet
however, when I try from the internet.....
http://mydomain.com/my_webapp/my_servlet does not work.
The static content gets served fine by Apache....any help will be
appreciated.
regards
RK
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RE: using a MySQL remote database
Posted by Greg Speechley <gr...@learnedsolutions.com>.
Quote from
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/jndi-datasource-examples-how
to.html
NOTE: Do not install these jarfiles in your /WEB-INF/lib, or
$JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/ext, or anywhere else. You will experience problems if
you install them anyplace other than $CATALINA_HOME/common/lib.
Hope that helps
Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kurtc@inwind.it [mailto:kurtc@inwind.it]
> Sent: Monday, 7 April 2003 12:13 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: using a MySQL remote database
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that
> with ORION
> with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
> shared/lib but accessing the database (using
> DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
> username, password); ), i get always the error:
>
> SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
> SQLSTATE = 08001
>
> Any help?
>
> luca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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using a MySQL remote database
Posted by ku...@inwind.it.
Hello,
I would like to use a remote MySQL database. I already used that with ORION
with no problem, but with Tomcat i cant. I added the mmsql.jar file into
shared/lib but accessing the database (using
DriverManager.getConnection ("jdbc:mysql://host.host/databasename",
username, password); ), i get always the error:
SQLEXCEPTION = No suitable driver
SQLSTATE = 08001
Any help?
luca
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Micael <ca...@harbornet.com>.
You need to get a big picture of what struts is.
Struts is a structure and an application that handles incoming requests to
a server.
Basically, when you use struts, the incoming request is sent to a central
point ("Controller") which then uses various resources to handle the
request. This is done via the web.xml configuration file. All requests
with specified urls are sent to the controller. There are "Form" classes
that hold the values in the input tags from the html. There are "Mapping"
classes that handle the information (put into the struts configuration xml)
that tell the controller what to do with the request. The mapping classes
are obviously central. There are "Error" classes that handle errors.
All of the above are coordinated in an environment that attempts to follow
the "MVC" pattern, as it applies to web-based architectures. The various
tiers are decoupled from all but their contiguous tiers.
This is all too simple, of course, but that is the idea. You can clearly
do this on your own. There are some deficiencies that I am sure Craig
would change if he had Monday morning quarterbacking possibilities to
change things without screwing people that are already using the
application. But, struts is, I find, a very efficient and well documented
application. If you do anything as complicated as struts, you will have to
get as "complicated". You can do a million things with all the
architectures, but struts is cleasly one of the best if not the very best
around.
Micael
At 03:48 AM 4/10/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks all for your comment.
>
>No doubt in my mind that Struts is better to use than unstructured JSP.
>There are couple things in my mind though:
>
>1) Can I create MVC app without using Struts, such as separate my logic
>out from the JSP (I know, there was an example that show there are cases
>using struts reduce the code down dramatically, so this lead to a 2nd question)
>
>2) With the complicated web nature, and the complicated Struts (with my
>thought on the first post), isn't there some room for easier to learn, and
>quicker to adopt technology than Struts (Which may not exist yet).
>This question is silly by itself, but please give me time to explain.
>What I try to ask is that is there a currently existed technology that is
>much better than struts, or is it very forseeable that such a technology
>can be develope in a near future. (Sure, Struts is not perfect, and can
>be improved, but I am talking a big change, not an improvement here).
>
>3) Can you give me a good example of use for Struts?
>My list of guesses (please comment on each, and give extra if you have time)
>
>a) The follow can be easily done by JSP without Struts:
> - Reservation system web app?
> - Email app (such hotmail)?
> - Shopping cart?
> - Corporate website (such as customer support area).
>b) No, the above are too simple:
> - Nuclear explotion simmulation (or extraterrestrial life search)
> - Multi player (webase) app (like dungeon type, or sim)
> - Webase collaboration (such as 1000 people working on a same document)
>c) No, it's the ability to easily add GUI functionality to IDE that
>generates Struts apps
>d) It depends on how the app works:
> - Application that uses alot of sessionings
> - Application that uses alot of customization (personalization)
> - Application that changes all the time (like a news service such as
> cnn.com)
> - Application that is extremely large, and structural (not a list of
> 1000 pages, but 1000 pages structurally, and display depends on the
> current state).
> - Application that is highly interactive (with users)
> - Application that was moved from desktop client to the web client.
>
>Please don't say all of the above, because I know Struts can do all
>that. Just the one that makes Struts a big differentiator.
>
>Again, thanks all. If you have time, please share. If not, please
>ignore. I know, I just want to discuss ideas, and learn a bit from your
>experience. You can always ask me to search for the information on the
>web. But getting information interactively from people who knows it best
>is something I don't like to pass up.
>
>
>Dan Tran wrote:
>
>>I once b4 got introduced to WEB using JSP. It was a horrible year of my
>>life supporting a jungle of code mixing presentation and bussiness logic
>>code.
>>
>>When I read about MVC, then MVC2 with Struts, I never turn back. The speed
>>that I can crank jsp screens becomes unimaginable.
>>
>>Of course I paid some high price at the begining but with confident since I
>>have ton of smart ppl on struts-user list to back me up.
>>
>>-Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dan Allen" <da...@mojavelinux.com>
>>To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 7:17 PM
>>Subject: Re: <If> STRUTS</If>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Vy Ho (st946tbf@drexel.edu) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>This maybe off topic a bit. However, I think the audience of this
>>>>mailing listing probably the best place to ask.
>>>>
>>>>First, I am sorry to those who feel offended by this. This is just pure
>>>>technical discussion, no mean to offend any one. Opposite view is
>>>>appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>I tried out couple tutorial of STRUTS. My feeling is that this technolog
>>>>is overly complicated. It's like killing an ant with a machine gun.
>>>>It takes so much to just output a "hello world" web page the STRUTS way.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, one may argue that "hello world" example is just an illustration,
>>>>you reap the benefit when the project is big. Yes, I see. But, my
>>>>impression is that STRUTS does not scale well in the learning curve or
>>>>amount of work.
>>>>Here is what I mean:
>>>>If you look at C, C++, Java, Model View Controller, SQL, database (such
>>>>as JDBC) techonologies, they scales very well with the learning curve.
>>>>
>>>>If you want to do little, it's little to learn, and very little to do to
>>>>get it to work (couple lines of code, couple things here and there).
>>>>
>>>>Struts is different. In solving the real world problem, no question
>>>>about it (because I don't have much experience with it), but in learning
>>>>curve, and amount of work, it does not scale well for small app.
>>>>
>>>>This implies: if you want to build a hello world, then use perl, or
>>>>simple jsp, dear. But once your app get biggers, then use Struts.
>>>>
>>>>I wonder if there's other technology that makes this easier. (tutorial
>>>>from Sun's new tag support does not seem to alleviate much).
>>>>
>>>>In summary, killing an ant, or an elephant, struts would do it. But
>>>>learning to hold the strut gun won't be easy or simple or quikc for
>>>>whatever you want to do.
>>>>
>>>What you have to understand is that it isn't struts that is
>>>complicated, it is that nature of web services, namely browser
>>>requests. Since this type of model is more random then a
>>>well-defined desktop application, it is necessary to take more into
>>>consideration when dealing with one. You can of course forget all
>>>that and write a very insecure, very non-extensible page which might
>>>be good for a homepage, but it just won't do for an app. For those
>>>of use used to programming in the web environment, struts is a
>>>GOD-sent.
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>--
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>Daniel Allen, <da...@mojavelinux.com>
>>>http://www.mojavelinux.com/
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>Microsoft's Law of Software Engineering:
>>>Don't worry if it doesn't work right.
>>>If everything did, we'd be out of a job.
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Erik Price <ep...@ptc.com>.
Vy Ho wrote:
>
> Thanks all for your comment.
>
> No doubt in my mind that Struts is better to use than unstructured JSP.
> There are couple things in my mind though:
>
> 1) Can I create MVC app without using Struts, such as separate my logic
> out from the JSP (I know, there was an example that show there are cases
> using struts reduce the code down dramatically, so this lead to a 2nd
> question)
I am not using struts for my current project, but I think that I will
check it out for the next one, because I didn't know about struts until
fairly recently. But I am using servlets to perform the business logic
that dispatch to JSPs for display, which is not terribly complicated and
doesn't require me to use all of the features of struts but which works
just fine. It's not a *single* controller, but it is a relatively
limited application.
So you can still use this architecture without struts.
Erik
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Affan Qureshi <qu...@etilize.com>.
> Thanks all for your comment.
>
> No doubt in my mind that Struts is better to use than unstructured JSP.
>
> There are couple things in my mind though:
>
> 1) Can I create MVC app without using Struts, such as separate my logic
> out from the JSP (I know, there was an example that show there are cases
> using struts reduce the code down dramatically, so this lead to a 2nd
> question)
Yes you can. The basic idea is to have a central controller in place and
seperation of business model and the view. So you can implement it any way
you like. Of course Struts has done it the way its founders found best using
the experience out there. Take a look at WebWork too. You might find less
API to learn.
I think if you are developing any serious application you might find
yourself developing a framework something like Struts why why not use Struts
itself.
> 2) With the complicated web nature, and the complicated Struts (with my
> thought on the first post), isn't there some room for easier to learn,
> and quicker to adopt technology than Struts (Which may not exist yet).
> This question is silly by itself, but please give me time to explain.
> What I try to ask is that is there a currently existed technology that
> is much better than struts, or is it very forseeable that such a
> technology can be develope in a near future. (Sure, Struts is not
> perfect, and can be improved, but I am talking a big change, not an
> improvement here).
Struts may seem just as complicated as you want it to be. Just like EJBs and
other J2EE stuff. I agree that you should have a reasonable servlet/jsp
background to use Struts but you can use what you want from it and ignore
the rest. Struts provides ways to implement the most commonly used features
in webapps. Look at "How Struts Works" article on the Struts website.
> 3) Can you give me a good example of use for Struts?
> My list of guesses (please comment on each, and give extra if you have
time)
Struts does not build apps. Nor does it have components to build apps. You
have to create the apps yourself. It just assists you in handling some of
the common web application tasks more easily so that you don't start from
scratch everytime. You still have to write the application modules (mail
manager, shopping cart processor, CRM modules, game engine, etc.). The real
application is what you write not Struts. Although a lot of components and
plugins are available which might make frequently used features available
off-the-ftp.
All the examples you listed can be done even with JSP or even servlets for
that matter. The problem is to reduce complexity and increase productivity.
> a) The follow can be easily done by JSP without Struts:
> - Reservation system web app?
> - Email app (such hotmail)?
> - Shopping cart?
> - Corporate website (such as customer support area).
> b) No, the above are too simple:
> - Nuclear explotion simmulation (or extraterrestrial life search)
> - Multi player (webase) app (like dungeon type, or sim)
> - Webase collaboration (such as 1000 people working on a same
document)
> c) No, it's the ability to easily add GUI functionality to IDE that
> generates Struts apps
> d) It depends on how the app works:
> - Application that uses alot of sessionings
> - Application that uses alot of customization (personalization)
> - Application that changes all the time (like a news service such as
> cnn.com)
> - Application that is extremely large, and structural (not a list of
> 1000 pages, but 1000 pages structurally, and display depends on the
> current state).
> - Application that is highly interactive (with users)
> - Application that was moved from desktop client to the web client.
>
> Please don't say all of the above, because I know Struts can do all
> that. Just the one that makes Struts a big differentiator.
>
> Again, thanks all. If you have time, please share. If not, please
> ignore. I know, I just want to discuss ideas, and learn a bit from your
> experience. You can always ask me to search for the information on the
> web. But getting information interactively from people who knows it
> best is something I don't like to pass up.
>
>
Thanks,
Affan
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Vy Ho <st...@drexel.edu>.
Thanks all for your comment.
No doubt in my mind that Struts is better to use than unstructured JSP.
There are couple things in my mind though:
1) Can I create MVC app without using Struts, such as separate my logic
out from the JSP (I know, there was an example that show there are cases
using struts reduce the code down dramatically, so this lead to a 2nd
question)
2) With the complicated web nature, and the complicated Struts (with my
thought on the first post), isn't there some room for easier to learn,
and quicker to adopt technology than Struts (Which may not exist yet).
This question is silly by itself, but please give me time to explain.
What I try to ask is that is there a currently existed technology that
is much better than struts, or is it very forseeable that such a
technology can be develope in a near future. (Sure, Struts is not
perfect, and can be improved, but I am talking a big change, not an
improvement here).
3) Can you give me a good example of use for Struts?
My list of guesses (please comment on each, and give extra if you have time)
a) The follow can be easily done by JSP without Struts:
- Reservation system web app?
- Email app (such hotmail)?
- Shopping cart?
- Corporate website (such as customer support area).
b) No, the above are too simple:
- Nuclear explotion simmulation (or extraterrestrial life search)
- Multi player (webase) app (like dungeon type, or sim)
- Webase collaboration (such as 1000 people working on a same document)
c) No, it's the ability to easily add GUI functionality to IDE that
generates Struts apps
d) It depends on how the app works:
- Application that uses alot of sessionings
- Application that uses alot of customization (personalization)
- Application that changes all the time (like a news service such as
cnn.com)
- Application that is extremely large, and structural (not a list of
1000 pages, but 1000 pages structurally, and display depends on the
current state).
- Application that is highly interactive (with users)
- Application that was moved from desktop client to the web client.
Please don't say all of the above, because I know Struts can do all
that. Just the one that makes Struts a big differentiator.
Again, thanks all. If you have time, please share. If not, please
ignore. I know, I just want to discuss ideas, and learn a bit from your
experience. You can always ask me to search for the information on the
web. But getting information interactively from people who knows it
best is something I don't like to pass up.
Dan Tran wrote:
>I once b4 got introduced to WEB using JSP. It was a horrible year of my
>life supporting a jungle of code mixing presentation and bussiness logic
>code.
>
>When I read about MVC, then MVC2 with Struts, I never turn back. The speed
>that I can crank jsp screens becomes unimaginable.
>
>Of course I paid some high price at the begining but with confident since I
>have ton of smart ppl on struts-user list to back me up.
>
>-Dan
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Allen" <da...@mojavelinux.com>
>To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 7:17 PM
>Subject: Re: <If> STRUTS</If>
>
>
>
>
>>Vy Ho (st946tbf@drexel.edu) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>This maybe off topic a bit. However, I think the audience of this
>>>mailing listing probably the best place to ask.
>>>
>>>First, I am sorry to those who feel offended by this. This is just pure
>>>technical discussion, no mean to offend any one. Opposite view is
>>>appreciated.
>>>
>>>I tried out couple tutorial of STRUTS. My feeling is that this technolog
>>>is overly complicated. It's like killing an ant with a machine gun.
>>>It takes so much to just output a "hello world" web page the STRUTS way.
>>>
>>>Yes, one may argue that "hello world" example is just an illustration,
>>>you reap the benefit when the project is big. Yes, I see. But, my
>>>impression is that STRUTS does not scale well in the learning curve or
>>>amount of work.
>>>Here is what I mean:
>>>If you look at C, C++, Java, Model View Controller, SQL, database (such
>>>as JDBC) techonologies, they scales very well with the learning curve.
>>>
>>>If you want to do little, it's little to learn, and very little to do to
>>>get it to work (couple lines of code, couple things here and there).
>>>
>>>Struts is different. In solving the real world problem, no question
>>>about it (because I don't have much experience with it), but in learning
>>>curve, and amount of work, it does not scale well for small app.
>>>
>>>This implies: if you want to build a hello world, then use perl, or
>>>simple jsp, dear. But once your app get biggers, then use Struts.
>>>
>>>I wonder if there's other technology that makes this easier. (tutorial
>>>from Sun's new tag support does not seem to alleviate much).
>>>
>>>In summary, killing an ant, or an elephant, struts would do it. But
>>>learning to hold the strut gun won't be easy or simple or quikc for
>>>whatever you want to do.
>>>
>>>
>>What you have to understand is that it isn't struts that is
>>complicated, it is that nature of web services, namely browser
>>requests. Since this type of model is more random then a
>>well-defined desktop application, it is necessary to take more into
>>consideration when dealing with one. You can of course forget all
>>that and write a very insecure, very non-extensible page which might
>>be good for a homepage, but it just won't do for an app. For those
>>of use used to programming in the web environment, struts is a
>>GOD-sent.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>--
>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>Daniel Allen, <da...@mojavelinux.com>
>>http://www.mojavelinux.com/
>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>Microsoft's Law of Software Engineering:
>>Don't worry if it doesn't work right.
>>If everything did, we'd be out of a job.
>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Dan Tran <da...@hotmail.com>.
I once b4 got introduced to WEB using JSP. It was a horrible year of my
life supporting a jungle of code mixing presentation and bussiness logic
code.
When I read about MVC, then MVC2 with Struts, I never turn back. The speed
that I can crank jsp screens becomes unimaginable.
Of course I paid some high price at the begining but with confident since I
have ton of smart ppl on struts-user list to back me up.
-Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Allen" <da...@mojavelinux.com>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: <If> STRUTS</If>
>
> Vy Ho (st946tbf@drexel.edu) wrote:
>
> >
> > This maybe off topic a bit. However, I think the audience of this
> > mailing listing probably the best place to ask.
> >
> > First, I am sorry to those who feel offended by this. This is just pure
> > technical discussion, no mean to offend any one. Opposite view is
> > appreciated.
> >
> > I tried out couple tutorial of STRUTS. My feeling is that this technolog
> > is overly complicated. It's like killing an ant with a machine gun.
> > It takes so much to just output a "hello world" web page the STRUTS way.
> >
> > Yes, one may argue that "hello world" example is just an illustration,
> > you reap the benefit when the project is big. Yes, I see. But, my
> > impression is that STRUTS does not scale well in the learning curve or
> > amount of work.
> > Here is what I mean:
> > If you look at C, C++, Java, Model View Controller, SQL, database (such
> > as JDBC) techonologies, they scales very well with the learning curve.
> >
> > If you want to do little, it's little to learn, and very little to do to
> > get it to work (couple lines of code, couple things here and there).
> >
> > Struts is different. In solving the real world problem, no question
> > about it (because I don't have much experience with it), but in learning
> > curve, and amount of work, it does not scale well for small app.
> >
> > This implies: if you want to build a hello world, then use perl, or
> > simple jsp, dear. But once your app get biggers, then use Struts.
> >
> > I wonder if there's other technology that makes this easier. (tutorial
> > from Sun's new tag support does not seem to alleviate much).
> >
> > In summary, killing an ant, or an elephant, struts would do it. But
> > learning to hold the strut gun won't be easy or simple or quikc for
> > whatever you want to do.
>
> What you have to understand is that it isn't struts that is
> complicated, it is that nature of web services, namely browser
> requests. Since this type of model is more random then a
> well-defined desktop application, it is necessary to take more into
> consideration when dealing with one. You can of course forget all
> that and write a very insecure, very non-extensible page which might
> be good for a homepage, but it just won't do for an app. For those
> of use used to programming in the web environment, struts is a
> GOD-sent.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Daniel Allen, <da...@mojavelinux.com>
> http://www.mojavelinux.com/
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Microsoft's Law of Software Engineering:
> Don't worry if it doesn't work right.
> If everything did, we'd be out of a job.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: STRUTS
Posted by Dan Allen <da...@mojavelinux.com>.
Vy Ho (st946tbf@drexel.edu) wrote:
>
> This maybe off topic a bit. However, I think the audience of this
> mailing listing probably the best place to ask.
>
> First, I am sorry to those who feel offended by this. This is just pure
> technical discussion, no mean to offend any one. Opposite view is
> appreciated.
>
> I tried out couple tutorial of STRUTS. My feeling is that this technolog
> is overly complicated. It's like killing an ant with a machine gun.
> It takes so much to just output a "hello world" web page the STRUTS way.
>
> Yes, one may argue that "hello world" example is just an illustration,
> you reap the benefit when the project is big. Yes, I see. But, my
> impression is that STRUTS does not scale well in the learning curve or
> amount of work.
> Here is what I mean:
> If you look at C, C++, Java, Model View Controller, SQL, database (such
> as JDBC) techonologies, they scales very well with the learning curve.
>
> If you want to do little, it's little to learn, and very little to do to
> get it to work (couple lines of code, couple things here and there).
>
> Struts is different. In solving the real world problem, no question
> about it (because I don't have much experience with it), but in learning
> curve, and amount of work, it does not scale well for small app.
>
> This implies: if you want to build a hello world, then use perl, or
> simple jsp, dear. But once your app get biggers, then use Struts.
>
> I wonder if there's other technology that makes this easier. (tutorial
> from Sun's new tag support does not seem to alleviate much).
>
> In summary, killing an ant, or an elephant, struts would do it. But
> learning to hold the strut gun won't be easy or simple or quikc for
> whatever you want to do.
What you have to understand is that it isn't struts that is
complicated, it is that nature of web services, namely browser
requests. Since this type of model is more random then a
well-defined desktop application, it is necessary to take more into
consideration when dealing with one. You can of course forget all
that and write a very insecure, very non-extensible page which might
be good for a homepage, but it just won't do for an app. For those
of use used to programming in the web environment, struts is a
GOD-sent.
Dan
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Daniel Allen, <da...@mojavelinux.com>
http://www.mojavelinux.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Microsoft's Law of Software Engineering:
Don't worry if it doesn't work right.
If everything did, we'd be out of a job.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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