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Posted to user@helix.apache.org by kishore g <g....@gmail.com> on 2014/07/11 19:45:55 UTC
Re-define: What is Helix
Hi,
This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we call
Helix *"cluster
management framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it cluster
manager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can mean
different things to different people. But the most common understanding of
cluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stopping
processes on those machines. In other words, it cluster management is
synonymous to a deployment solution.
Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambari
and other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I have
answered this at
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but every
one i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some one
asked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoop
ecosystem table <http://hadoopecosystemtable.github.io/>where Helix is
labelled as system deployment.
I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as something
else that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.
What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?
thanks,
Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Zhen Zhang <zz...@linkedin.com.INVALID>.
How about "Distributed state coordinator"?
From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <us...@helix.apache.org>>
Date: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:07 PM
To: "user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <us...@helix.apache.org>>
Cc: "dev@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <de...@helix.apache.org>>
Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> From: osgigeek@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>
> To: user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>
> CC: dev@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>
>
> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> that a mouth-full :-)
>
> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> competency of Helix.
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> >
> >
> > _____________________________
> > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>>, <de...@helix.apache.org>>
> >
> >
> > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn> but
> > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
> >
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Sandeep Nayak <os...@gmail.com>.
I was going to suggest 'An framework to manage/orchestrate distributed
systems'. I use manage or orchestrate as suggestion to pick one, I
lean towards orchestrate. I think Kanak was the first one to suggest
'orchestrate' and I thought it fit well.
I also agree with Bob's latter statement that by virtue of omitting
one or the other of the modifiers it could give the reader a wrong
impression. So I would lean towards not adding any and go with the
notion that users should expect these to be reliable and scalable.
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Bob Schulman <bo...@schulman.com> wrote:
> Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and
> gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're
> on your own to put them together.
>
> Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the
> message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list:
>
> Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development
> Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development
>
> - Bob
>
>> How about this
>>
>>
>> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
>> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
>>> is the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems
>>> like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
>>> service that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit"
>>> conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a
>>> cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more
>>> in-line with what Helix actually is.
>>>
>>> -Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed
>>>> systems".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala
>>>> <kanak.b@hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I
>>>>> have
>>>> found
>>>>> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: user@helix.apache.org
>>>>>> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
>>>>>> know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
>>>>>> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now
>>>>>> isn't that a mouth-full :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the
>>>>>> core competency of Helix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
>>>>>>
>>> shirshanka@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________
>>>>>>> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>>> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
>>>>>>> we
>>>>> callHelix
>>>>>>> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but
>>>>>>> is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a
>>>>>>> broad term
>>>> and
>>>>> can
>>>>>>> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
>>>>>>> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>> cluster
>>>>>>> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of
>>>>>>> this terminology, Helix is often compared with
>>>>>>> Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
>>>>>>>
>>> other
>>>>>>> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
>>>>>>> haveanswered
>>>> this
>>>>>>> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y
>>>>>>> arn
>>>> but
>>>>>>> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
>>>>>>> e.g.
>>>> some
>>>>>>> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
>>>>>>>
>>> Here
>>>
>>>>> is the
>>>>>>> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
>>>>>>> deployment.I
>>>>> feel the
>>>>>>> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
>>>>>>> somethingelse
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use
>>>>>>> it.What
>>> do
>>>>> others
>>>>>>> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
>>>> as?thanks,Kishore
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Sandeep Nayak <os...@gmail.com>.
I was going to suggest 'An framework to manage/orchestrate distributed
systems'. I use manage or orchestrate as suggestion to pick one, I
lean towards orchestrate. I think Kanak was the first one to suggest
'orchestrate' and I thought it fit well.
I also agree with Bob's latter statement that by virtue of omitting
one or the other of the modifiers it could give the reader a wrong
impression. So I would lean towards not adding any and go with the
notion that users should expect these to be reliable and scalable.
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Bob Schulman <bo...@schulman.com> wrote:
> Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and
> gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're
> on your own to put them together.
>
> Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the
> message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list:
>
> Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development
> Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development
>
> - Bob
>
>> How about this
>>
>>
>> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
>> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
>>> is the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems
>>> like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
>>> service that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit"
>>> conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a
>>> cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more
>>> in-line with what Helix actually is.
>>>
>>> -Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed
>>>> systems".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala
>>>> <kanak.b@hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I
>>>>> have
>>>> found
>>>>> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: user@helix.apache.org
>>>>>> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
>>>>>> know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
>>>>>> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now
>>>>>> isn't that a mouth-full :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the
>>>>>> core competency of Helix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
>>>>>>
>>> shirshanka@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________
>>>>>>> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>>> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
>>>>>>> we
>>>>> callHelix
>>>>>>> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but
>>>>>>> is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a
>>>>>>> broad term
>>>> and
>>>>> can
>>>>>>> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
>>>>>>> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>> cluster
>>>>>>> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of
>>>>>>> this terminology, Helix is often compared with
>>>>>>> Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
>>>>>>>
>>> other
>>>>>>> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
>>>>>>> haveanswered
>>>> this
>>>>>>> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y
>>>>>>> arn
>>>> but
>>>>>>> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
>>>>>>> e.g.
>>>> some
>>>>>>> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
>>>>>>>
>>> Here
>>>
>>>>> is the
>>>>>>> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
>>>>>>> deployment.I
>>>>> feel the
>>>>>>> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
>>>>>>> somethingelse
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use
>>>>>>> it.What
>>> do
>>>>> others
>>>>>>> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
>>>> as?thanks,Kishore
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Bob Schulman <bo...@schulman.com>.
Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and
gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're
on your own to put them together.
Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the
message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list:
Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development
Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development
- Bob
> How about this
>
>
> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
>> is the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems
>> like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
>> service that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit"
>> conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a
>> cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more
>> in-line with what Helix actually is.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed
>>> systems".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala
>>> <kanak.b@hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I
>>>> have
>>> found
>>>> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
>>>>> To: user@helix.apache.org
>>>>> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
>>>>> know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
>>>>> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now
>>>>> isn't that a mouth-full :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the
>>>>> core competency of Helix.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
>>>>>
>> shirshanka@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _____________________________
>>>>>> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
>>>>>> we
>>>> callHelix
>>>>>> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but
>>>>>> is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a
>>>>>> broad term
>>> and
>>>> can
>>>>>> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
>>>> understanding
>>>>>> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
>>>>>> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words,
>>>>>> it
>>>> cluster
>>>>>> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of
>>>>>> this terminology, Helix is often compared with
>>>>>> Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
>>>>>>
>> other
>>>>>> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
>>>>>> haveanswered
>>> this
>>>>>> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y
>>>>>> arn
>>> but
>>>>>> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
>>>>>> e.g.
>>> some
>>>>>> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
>>>>>>
>> Here
>>
>>>> is the
>>>>>> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
>>>>>> deployment.I
>>>> feel the
>>>>>> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
>>>>>> somethingelse
>>>> that
>>>>>> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use
>>>>>> it.What
>> do
>>>> others
>>>>>> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
>>> as?thanks,Kishore
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>.
+1 for "Helix - A framework for distributed systems development"
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:07 AM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about this
>
> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
> is
> > the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
> > something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
> service
> > that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
> > control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
> > the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
> > actually is.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <
> kanak.b@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> > > found
> > > > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
> know
> > > > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > > > competency of Helix.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
> > shirshanka@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____________________________
> > > > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
> we
> > > > callHelix
> > > > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is
> it
> > > > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad
> term
> > > and
> > > > can
> > > > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > > > understanding
> > > > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > > > cluster
> > > > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
> > other
> > > > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
> haveanswered
> > > this
> > > > > > athttp://
> stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> > > but
> > > > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
> e.g.
> > > some
> > > > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
> > Here
> > > > is the
> > > > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
> deployment.I
> > > > feel the
> > > > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
> somethingelse
> > > > that
> > > > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What
> > do
> > > > others
> > > > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> > > as?thanks,Kishore
> > > > G
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>.
+1 for "Helix - A framework for distributed systems development"
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:07 AM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about this
>
> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
> is
> > the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
> > something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
> service
> > that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
> > control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
> > the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
> > actually is.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <
> kanak.b@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> > > found
> > > > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
> know
> > > > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > > > competency of Helix.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
> > shirshanka@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____________________________
> > > > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
> we
> > > > callHelix
> > > > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is
> it
> > > > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad
> term
> > > and
> > > > can
> > > > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > > > understanding
> > > > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > > > cluster
> > > > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
> > other
> > > > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
> haveanswered
> > > this
> > > > > > athttp://
> stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> > > but
> > > > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
> e.g.
> > > some
> > > > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
> > Here
> > > > is the
> > > > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
> deployment.I
> > > > feel the
> > > > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
> somethingelse
> > > > that
> > > > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What
> > do
> > > > others
> > > > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> > > as?thanks,Kishore
> > > > G
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Bob Schulman <bo...@schulman.com>.
Definitely a framework. A framework provides (and imposes) structure and
gives you a working solution. A toolkit has building blocks, but you're
on your own to put them together.
Consider adding either of these modifiers, though that might weaken the
message because of whatever we omit from the modifier list:
Helix - A framework for reliable distributed systems development
Helix - A framework for scalable distributed systems development
- Bob
> How about this
>
>
> Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
> Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users
>> is the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems
>> like something relatively out of the user's control, like some external
>> service that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit"
>> conveys more control, like the user is building a system such as a
>> cluster manager (in the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more
>> in-line with what Helix actually is.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed
>>> systems".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala
>>> <kanak.b@hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I
>>>> have
>>> found
>>>> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
>>>>> To: user@helix.apache.org
>>>>> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I
>>>>> know the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
>>>>> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now
>>>>> isn't that a mouth-full :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the
>>>>> core competency of Helix.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
>>>>>
>> shirshanka@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _____________________________
>>>>>> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
>>>>>> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should
>>>>>> we
>>>> callHelix
>>>>>> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but
>>>>>> is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a
>>>>>> broad term
>>> and
>>>> can
>>>>>> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
>>>> understanding
>>>>>> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
>>>>>> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words,
>>>>>> it
>>>> cluster
>>>>>> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of
>>>>>> this terminology, Helix is often compared with
>>>>>> Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
>>>>>>
>> other
>>>>>> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I
>>>>>> haveanswered
>>> this
>>>>>> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-y
>>>>>> arn
>>> but
>>>>>> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For
>>>>>> e.g.
>>> some
>>>>>> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
>>>>>>
>> Here
>>
>>>> is the
>>>>>> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system
>>>>>> deployment.I
>>>> feel the
>>>>>> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as
>>>>>> somethingelse
>>>> that
>>>>>> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use
>>>>>> it.What
>> do
>>>> others
>>>>>> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
>>> as?thanks,Kishore
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by kishore g <g....@gmail.com>.
How about this
Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is
> the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
> something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service
> that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
> control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
> the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
> actually is.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <kanak.b@hotmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> > found
> > > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > > >
> > > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > > competency of Helix.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
> shirshanka@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____________________________
> > > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> > > callHelix
> > > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term
> > and
> > > can
> > > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > > understanding
> > > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > > cluster
> > > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
> other
> > > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered
> > this
> > > > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> > but
> > > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g.
> > some
> > > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
> Here
> > > is the
> > > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> > > feel the
> > > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> > > that
> > > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What
> do
> > > others
> > > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> > as?thanks,Kishore
> > > G
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by kishore g <g....@gmail.com>.
How about this
Helix - A framework for distributed systems development
Helix - A Distributed System Development toolkit
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is
> the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
> something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service
> that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
> control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
> the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
> actually is.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <kanak.b@hotmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> > found
> > > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > > >
> > > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > > competency of Helix.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <
> shirshanka@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____________________________
> > > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> > > callHelix
> > > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term
> > and
> > > can
> > > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > > understanding
> > > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > > cluster
> > > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand
> other
> > > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered
> > this
> > > > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> > but
> > > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g.
> > some
> > > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix.
> Here
> > > is the
> > > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> > > feel the
> > > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> > > that
> > > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What
> do
> > > others
> > > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> > as?thanks,Kishore
> > > G
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>.
>From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is
the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service
that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
actually is.
-Greg
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> found
> > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> >
> > >
> > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > >
> > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > competency of Helix.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <shirshanka@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________
> > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> > callHelix
> > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term
> and
> > can
> > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > understanding
> > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > cluster
> > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered
> this
> > > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> but
> > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g.
> some
> > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here
> > is the
> > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> > feel the
> > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> > that
> > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do
> > others
> > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> as?thanks,Kishore
> > G
> > > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Greg Brandt <br...@gmail.com>.
>From talking w/ Kishore earlier, think the key thing to convey to users is
the level of control they get. "Cluster manager/management" seems like
something relatively out of the user's control, like some external service
that contains their services. But "framework" or "toolkit" conveys more
control, like the user is building a system such as a cluster manager (in
the YARN / Mesos sense), which is probably more in-line with what Helix
actually is.
-Greg
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM, kishore g <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have
> found
> > it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
> >
> > >
> > > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > > that a mouth-full :-)
> > >
> > > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > > competency of Helix.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <shirshanka@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________
> > > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> > callHelix
> > > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term
> and
> > can
> > > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> > understanding
> > > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> > cluster
> > > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered
> this
> > > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn
> but
> > > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g.
> some
> > > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here
> > is the
> > > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> > feel the
> > > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> > that
> > > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do
> > others
> > > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it
> as?thanks,Kishore
> > G
> > > >
> >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Zhen Zhang <zz...@linkedin.com>.
How about "Distributed state coordinator"?
From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <us...@helix.apache.org>>
Date: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:07 PM
To: "user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <us...@helix.apache.org>>
Cc: "dev@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>" <de...@helix.apache.org>>
Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> From: osgigeek@gmail.com<ma...@gmail.com>
> To: user@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>
> CC: dev@helix.apache.org<ma...@helix.apache.org>
>
> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> that a mouth-full :-)
>
> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> competency of Helix.
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> >
> >
> > _____________________________
> > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>>, <de...@helix.apache.org>>
> >
> >
> > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn> but
> > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
> >
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by kishore g <g....@gmail.com>.
Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found
> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>
> > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>
> >
> > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > that a mouth-full :-)
> >
> > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > competency of Helix.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________________
> > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> callHelix
> > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and
> can
> > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> understanding
> > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> cluster
> > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here
> is the
> > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> feel the
> > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> that
> > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do
> others
> > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore
> G
> > >
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by kishore g <g....@gmail.com>.
Throwing in another option "Toolkit for building distributed systems".
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found
> it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
>
> > Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> > From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> > To: user@helix.apache.org
> > CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>
> >
> > I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> > the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> > Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> > that a mouth-full :-)
> >
> > I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> > competency of Helix.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________________
> > > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we
> callHelix
> > > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and
> can
> > > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common
> understanding
> > > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it
> cluster
> > > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> > > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here
> is the
> > > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I
> feel the
> > > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse
> that
> > > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do
> others
> > > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore
> G
> > >
>
RE: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>.
SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> To: user@helix.apache.org
> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>
> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> that a mouth-full :-)
>
> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> competency of Helix.
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> >
> >
> > _____________________________
> > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> >
> >
> > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
> >
RE: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Kanak Biscuitwala <ka...@hotmail.com>.
SolrCloud's Helix clone throws around the word "orchestrate". I have found it to be a useful term when describing Helix to others as well.
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:25:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: Re-define: What is Helix
> From: osgigeek@gmail.com
> To: user@helix.apache.org
> CC: dev@helix.apache.org
>
> I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
> the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
> Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
> that a mouth-full :-)
>
> I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
> competency of Helix.
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
> >
> >
> > _____________________________
> > From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> > Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> > To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
> >
> >
> > Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> > *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> > clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> > meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> > ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> > starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> > management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> > terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> > frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> > athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> > everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> > oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> > Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> > best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> > helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> > think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
> >
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Sandeep Nayak <os...@gmail.com>.
I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
that a mouth-full :-)
I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
competency of Helix.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>
>
> _____________________________
> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Sandeep Nayak <os...@gmail.com>.
I read through the response on the stackoverflow and from what I know
the crux of the Helix framework appears to be 'Automation of
Declarative State Management for Clustered Resources' ... now isn't
that a mouth-full :-)
I think any other capability with scaling etc is add-on to the core
competency of Helix.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
>
>
> _____________________________
> From: kishore g <g....@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
> To: <us...@helix.apache.org>, <de...@helix.apache.org>
>
>
> Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix
> *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it
> clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can
> meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding
> ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and
> starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster
> management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this
> terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other
> frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this
> athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but
> everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some
> oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the
> Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the
> best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that
> helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others
> think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
>
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>.
Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
_____________________________
From: kishore g <g.kishore@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
To: <user@helix.apache.org>, <dev@helix.apache.org>
Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G
Re: Re-define: What is Helix
Posted by Shirshanka Das <sh...@gmail.com>.
Think about analogies to netty for network programming in Java
_____________________________
From: kishore g <g.kishore@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:46 AM
Subject: Re-define: What is Helix
To: <user@helix.apache.org>, <dev@helix.apache.org>
Hi,This is something that has been bothering most of us. Should we callHelix *"clustermanagement framework"*? Its a framework alright, but is it clustermanager?- I am not sure. Cluster management is a broad term and can meandifferent things to different people. But the most common understanding ofcluster management term is managing a set of machines and starting/stoppingprocesses on those machines. In other words, it cluster management issynonymous to a deployment solution.Because of this terminology, Helix is often compared with Mesos/YARN/Ambariand other frameworks that manage the start/stop of processes. I haveanswered this athttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/16401412/apache-helix-vs-yarn but everyone i talk to ask the same question again and again. For e.g. some oneasked if they can put together a Hadoop Cluster using Helix. Here is the Hadoopecosystem table where Helix islabelled as system deployment.I feel the best way to clear this confusion is re-brand Helix as somethingelse that helps one understand what it is and when can some one use it.What do others think. Any suggestions on what we should re-brand it as?thanks,Kishore G