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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2003/04/07 18:53:07 UTC
Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
I ask the ASF board to ratify this in their next meeting.
- o -
The reasons for this are many, but mostly related to a general sense of
friction brought together by my actions of moving the project forward
and cleaning up all potential future legal problems.
I now feel that my presence is an obstacle to the improvement of the
diversity of this community, my position of 'sponsorship' often
misinterpreted as 'leadership' and brings all sort of negativity on the
table.
Moreover, I will be leaving for part two of my world tour in a few weeks
and I won't be able to provide the oversight that my role requires and
the board assumes.
- o -
One of my heros of ancient history is Solon.
He was the man who created the laws of the city of Athens in ancient
greece, but when he finished his job, he went back to agricolture
instead of becoming yet-another-emperor.
You can read about it at http://www.e-classics.com/solon.htm
Anyway, I've always questioned myself what I would have done in that
position. I don't think I'll ever know, but life taught me recently that
happyness and peace of mind is what we should be looking for and this
rarely comes from power or money or visibility or ego satisfaction.
But from a balanced life.
And I'm in the process of understanding what is good for my balance and
what it's not and being the cocoon PMC chair doesn't help me bring any
more balance to my life, thus this decision.
I'm not proposing anybody to substitute me. Volunteers will emerge and
the community will vote them, then I'll forward it to you so that you
officially approuve the change.
I will remain in my position until then.
After that, I will keep on working inside the community as a committer.
Some cocoon committers might feel responsible for this move or others
might point fingers. Please don't. This idea of resigning has been
around for months, I just happend to cross the borderline today.
Interesting enough, I find myself relieved, not sad or angry or any
negative feeling. This is very nice and will help me as well as the
community to move forward.
Thanks for everything.
--
Stefano.
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> <snip/>
>
> > I'm sad about this, since you're the best person to hold that role,
> > because of your long history with both Cocoon and the ASF.
> >
> > Now, considering what Nicola (which both knows you and has been a PMC
> > chairman) said, I guess, and sincerely hope, that you're just resigning
> > from the PMC chair, but not from Cocoon itself.
>
> As I wrote to Pier, I'm just resigning from my PMC chair role. I will
> continue to be involved in cocoon development as long as I find itches
> that coocon can help me scratch. And this will very likely continue for
> a long time given the projects I'm going to be involved in in the future.
>
> But I won't be doing any more social engineering or legal oversight.
I bet that you still do both, just not as the PMC chair.
As a committer and PMC member, we each have responsibility for
legal oversight. You are still on the Cocoon PMC, are you not?
As for social engineering, we all do our bit toward that just
by participation in the community.
> And hopefully this will bring back the clear skies and the fun.
Thanks for being perceptive and intercepting those issues.
--David
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
on 4/7/03 11:30 PM Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>
>>I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
>>
>>I ask the ASF board to ratify this in their next meeting.
>>
>
>
> I'm sad about this, since you're the best person to hold that role,
> because of your long history with both Cocoon and the ASF.
>
> Now, considering what Nicola (which both knows you and has been a PMC
> chairman) said, I guess, and sincerely hope, that you're just resigning
> from the PMC chair, but not from Cocoon itself.
As I wrote to Pier, I'm just resigning from my PMC chair role. I will
continue to be involved in cocoon development as long as I find itches
that coocon can help me scratch. And this will very likely continue for
a long time given the projects I'm going to be involved in in the future.
But I won't be doing any more social engineering or legal oversight.
And hopefully this will bring back the clear skies and the fun.
--
Stefano.
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
>
>I ask the ASF board to ratify this in their next meeting.
>
I'm sad about this, since you're the best person to hold that role,
because of your long history with both Cocoon and the ASF.
Now, considering what Nicola (which both knows you and has been a PMC
chairman) said, I guess, and sincerely hope, that you're just resigning
from the PMC chair, but not from Cocoon itself.
<snip/>
>Thanks for everything.
>
Thank *you* for everything. I often consider cocoon-dev as a kind or
remote home with many friends, some of which I had the chance to meet
for real. In a way, Cocoon changed my life, not only professionally, but
also personally. And this is because of you. So thanks for this.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
RE: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Artur Bialecki <ar...@digitalfairway.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Savory [mailto:savs@luminas.co.uk] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Savory
> Sent: April 7, 2003 1:30 PM
> To: Apache Cocoon
> Subject: Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> > I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache
> Cocoon PMC Chair.
>
> All I can say is that this is a great shame and disappointment, as the
> Apache Cocoon PMC hasn't really had a chance to find its feet yet, and
> Cocoon needs a strong and forthright individual to kick it
> along from time
> to time. In the last few weeks you've certainly done a lot of
> kicking, and
> whilst the bruises smarted at the start, we've got a stronger
> and better
> Cocoon 2.1 as a result.
>
> My worry is that you are the best person (with enough authority) to
> deliver the kicks and the vision, and that Cocoon as a whole
> will suffer
> without you at the helm to sponsor us.
>
> If this were a vote, I would be -1!
>
> However, if this is what you truly want, then I hope you will
> remain as
> active as you have been despite this setback. Thanks for all the great
> work you've done to get Cocoon to where it is, and good luck for part
> two of the world tour!
I couldn't say it better myself. So here it goes:
me too.
Artur...
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Andrew Savory <an...@luminas.co.uk>.
Hi,
On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
All I can say is that this is a great shame and disappointment, as the
Apache Cocoon PMC hasn't really had a chance to find its feet yet, and
Cocoon needs a strong and forthright individual to kick it along from time
to time. In the last few weeks you've certainly done a lot of kicking, and
whilst the bruises smarted at the start, we've got a stronger and better
Cocoon 2.1 as a result.
My worry is that you are the best person (with enough authority) to
deliver the kicks and the vision, and that Cocoon as a whole will suffer
without you at the helm to sponsor us.
If this were a vote, I would be -1!
However, if this is what you truly want, then I hope you will remain as
active as you have been despite this setback. Thanks for all the great
work you've done to get Cocoon to where it is, and good luck for part
two of the world tour!
Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory Email: andrew@luminas.co.uk
Managing Director Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658
Luminas Internet Applications Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
This is not an official statement or order. Web: www.luminas.co.uk
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
> To reduce the weight that the role of a PMC Chair puts onto one's
> shoulders, I propose to make the terms of our PMC Chair last only six
> months (as is the situation with the Avalon project IIRC). The ancient
> Athen democracy as described in
> http://www.stoa.org/projects/demos/article_democracy_overview?page=all
> was also keen on temporary roles, so that a community effectively,
> one-term-at-a-time, becomes self-gouverning.
This will be my first Cocoon message in months. I'm currently in
hybernate mode as many things have pre-empted my work here. This being
said, I monitor the project as best I can given the volume (god I wish
there were a newsletter by a Rob type character similar to the Jakarta
one). I've thus far not seen any issues that invoked me ;-). This
however does.
I think this is unwise if you mean that a person could only serve for 6
months. I could be wrong, but even on a project like this one, you
might find you run through the number of willing and qualified PMC
chairpersons in short order.
Steven, although we often don't get along and at times have "trust
issues", you know that I hold your contributions and dedication in
considerable esteem and we often do agree.
In this spirit, I'd encourage you not to seek the PMC position
yourself. I think it is likely that your contributions to Cocoon may
lead to its eventual "success" however you might define that. (and I'm
meaning this in a broader sense/magnitude than "its already succeeded",
I'm thinking a near magnitude to "like HTTPD has succeeded"). I also
think that they give you interests that may at times may, ironically
because of these contributions, conflict with the greater good for
Cocoon and its community. I fear that you might be driven, not out of
spite or intent, to act from the PMC chair in a manner which would not
be positive. Such would likely be divisive and would not suit your
interests or those of Cocoon.
This is my advice. Take it for what you will. This is all I plan to
say on the matter.
-Andy
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Matthew Langham wrote:
>
>>>> If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
>>>> proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents
>>>
>>>
>>> I propose and would vote for Carsten Ziegler, and Sylvain if he doesn't
>>> want to.
>>
>
> Geez! Carsten, Steven, Sylvain...
> ...that's not an easy vote :-/
Yep. Not easy. So let's simplify it...
First of all, I must say that I'm *very honoured* to see people
spontaneously proposing me for the PMC chair. This makes me realize that
I have a place in this community whose importance I heavily
underestimated. And this feels good ;-)
Now, although honoured, and after having some deep thoughts (hence this
late reply), I don't want to be the PMC chair. There are several reasons
for this, which I explain below, in no particular order.
Personality. I'm much better at technical things than at managing and
organizing. I consider that most of the job of the PMC chair is composed
of legalese, reports and discussions with the ASF board. This isn't my
cup of tea and I don't think I would be very good at that. There's also
arbitration, which I may be better at. But this community rarely needs
arbitration. And it these rare occasions, we're most of the time able to
solve the problems through discussion and consensus.
Time. It has been said that being a PMC chair doesn't require so much
time. But I know myself : things that I must do but I find boring take
me twice (or more) the time really necessary to do them. I prefer using
my time available for Cocoon to more technical tasks. I also have a job
and a life which, although Cocoon is a part of them, I need to dedicate
time to.
Steven's candidature. I know Steven personally and appreciate him. Some
people seem not to like him, but we have to consider that only those
that do nothing never make mistakes. Steven participates to a lot of
things related to the ASF organization and this inevitably means that
some of his actions are not well perceived. But my overall opinion is
that Steven is the right person for the tasks that a PMC chairman has to
do. He also set up several good things for the Cocoon community : last
year's gettogether, the Cocoon wiki, etc.
Also, and I don't want to this to be taken as a criticism, I consider
Steven more suited for the chairman job than Carsten. I also know
Carsten personally and appreciate him, and think he's the same kind of
person as I am : a very good technician. And since the chairman job is
more organizational than technical, someone with strong organizational
abilities seems to me a better choice.
Now these are my personal opinions, and the community will choose.
Cheers,
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Matthew Langham wrote:
>
>>>> If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
>>>> proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents
>>>
>>>
>>> I propose and would vote for Carsten Ziegler, and Sylvain if he doesn't
>>> want to.
>>>
>
> Geez! Carsten, Steven, Sylvain...
> ...that's not an easy vote :-/
>
> Anyone about to propose even more (excellent) options?
I'd like to propose Matthew as PMC chair.
Vadim
Re: how to vote for PMC chair? (was: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mardi, 8 avr 2003, à 09:56 Europe/Zurich, Dirk-Willem van Gulik a
écrit :
> ...You may want to consider a closed, rather than an open ballot. This
> may improve quality....
of course - I didn't know this was possible here, but it makes sense.
-Bertrand
Re: how to vote for PMC chair? (was: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair)
Posted by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org>.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> -wait 24 hours for other candidates to come forward
Experience has shown that you need a -lot- more to catch people across the
worlds their time zones and folks which have other real-live jobs on the
side. Expects days at the very least.
> -publish the list of candidates here for voting
> -PMC members vote for each candidate (+1 +0 -0 -1 as usual), can give
> +1 to several of them
You may want to consider a closed, rather than an open ballot. This
may improve quality. See the 'voter' code in ~voter for instructions of
how to use.
You may want to have a look at something like:
http://www.apache.org/~dirkx/pmc-email-ballot-example.txt
which goes through a cycle of getting candiates, establishing that they
really want to be included (we've had people volunteered by others without
their knowledge), correction of account and email info (a few % is always
off), updating of the committer list (agan a few % is always off) and so
on. Also note that the actual voting segment for a large part is now
automated by the 'voter' subsystem. Which can be used for any commiter
group in /etcgroup.
Dw.
how to vote for PMC chair? (was: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair)
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mardi, 8 avr 2003, à 09:23 Europe/Zurich, Torsten Curdt a écrit :
> ...Geez! Carsten, Steven, Sylvain...
> ...that's not an easy vote :-/
you bet!
I think for some people being the PMC Chair is seen as a boring thing,
for others it can be valuable in terms of reputation/references so it
would be very hard for me to vote. In this particular case I'd be +1 on
all three.
So, if it is hard to choose I'd suggest:
-wait 24 hours for other candidates to come forward
-publish the list of candidates here for voting
-PMC members vote for each candidate (+1 +0 -0 -1 as usual), can give
+1 to several of them
-the choice between candidates having the same number of votes is made
randomly.
-Bertrand
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
Matthew Langham wrote:
>>>If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
>>>proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents
>>
>>I propose and would vote for Carsten Ziegler, and Sylvain if he doesn't
>>want to.
>>
Geez! Carsten, Steven, Sylvain...
...that's not an easy vote :-/
Anyone about to propose even more (excellent) options?
--
Torsten
RE: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de>.
>
> > If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
> > proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents
>
> I propose and would vote for Carsten Ziegler, and Sylvain if he doesn't
> want to.
>
I spoke to Carsten this morning on the phone (he is currently travelling and
without email access for the moment). He would be interested in the role of
PMC Chair.
(Of course I was going to nominate him - but Nicola Ken beat me to it :-))
Matthew
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote, On 08/04/2003 5.40:
> Steven Noels wrote:
> <snip/>
>
>>In the Apache style of self-empowerment, and given the fact the value I
>>can provide to this community isn't so much code-related, I would be
>>willing, upon your approval of course, to relieve Stefano from his
>>current role for the next six months to come.
>
>
> If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
> proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents
I propose and would vote for Carsten Ziegler, and Sylvain if he doesn't
want to.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
>>In the Apache style of self-empowerment, and given the fact the value I
>>can provide to this community isn't so much code-related, I would be
>>willing, upon your approval of course, to relieve Stefano from his
>>current role for the next six months to come.
>
>
> If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
> proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents, or do we
> start s vote for Steven ASAP?
I also like to propose Sylvain as the PMC chair.
What do you say, Sylvain? Would you be willing
to do this?
cheers
--
Torsten
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Mardi, 8 avr 2003, à 05:40 Europe/Zurich, David Crossley a écrit :
> ....If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
> proposed anyway.
Right - the good thing about timezones is that while you sleep, often
someone writes exactly what you would write ;-)
But we might want to wait a few hours before voting, to give everyone a
chance to learn about this (timezones again).
> ...Regarding the six month term, i presume that just means that
> it is re-assessed every six months but the same person could
> hold the position consecutively. It seems a waste to build up
> all that expertise, then change for no good reason.
Synchronicity here too - six months is a good term for re-assessment
but IMHO doesn't have to be a maximum.
-Bertrand
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Steven Noels wrote:
<snip/>
>
> In the Apache style of self-empowerment, and given the fact the value I
> can provide to this community isn't so much code-related, I would be
> willing, upon your approval of course, to relieve Stefano from his
> current role for the next six months to come.
If Steven had not put up his hand, then he would have been
proposed anyway. Are there any other proponents, or do we
start s vote for Steven ASAP?
Regarding the six month term, i presume that just means that
it is re-assessed every six months but the same person could
hold the position consecutively. It seems a waste to build up
all that expertise, then change for no good reason.
--David
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 7/4/03 22:53, "Steven Noels" <st...@outerthought.org> wrote:
>
> Is membership required to attend board meetings and report?
Nope, it isn't... I suppose that right now all chairs are actually members,
but it's not a requirement AFAIK...
Pier
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 7/04/2003 23:48 Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> We still need someone to "report" to the board... The chair is literally
> that person shifting stuff between the board and the PMC, so, we need
> someone who can "attend" to board meetings, report back to the board what's
> happening and make sure that directives from the board are well understood
> and enforced on the project...
I was in the assumption this _is_ the main role of the PMC Chair, for
which I just posted my candidature. Is membership required to attend
board meetings and report?
> And in my opinion, the election of a new chair needs to be done as soon as
> possible....
Exactly.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 7/4/03 22:20, "Steven Noels" <st...@outerthought.org> wrote:
> To reduce the weight that the role of a PMC Chair puts onto one's
> shoulders, I propose to make the terms of our PMC Chair last only six
> months (as is the situation with the Avalon project IIRC). [...]
That is more than reasonable... In our industry god knows what happens in
six months...
> I'm cc'ing board to see whether this is OK by them, I've just read
> article 5.2 of the ASF bylaws and ASF membership seems not to be a
> requirement for a PMC Chair of a toplevel project (= Officer IIUC) -
> this would be a problem otherwise, since we the amount of members
> amongst our active committers
> (http://www.apache.org/~jim/projects.html#cocoon-2.1) is fairly limited
> compared to some other projects (like
> http://www.apache.org/~jim/projects.html#httpd-2.0).
We still need someone to "report" to the board... The chair is literally
that person shifting stuff between the board and the PMC, so, we need
someone who can "attend" to board meetings, report back to the board what's
happening and make sure that directives from the board are well understood
and enforced on the project...
And in my opinion, the election of a new chair needs to be done as soon as
possible....
Pier
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 7/04/2003 19:59 Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Remember guys, the chair is *not* the technical lead. What do you want
> Stefano to be, an apparatus man or the PITA the makes us *think*?
Indeed.
Stefano,
I wish you a great trip, and I do hope you will have time (and a proper
internet connection) to be that PITA from time to time. As you said, you
aren't "going away" (except for the usual
I'm-in-the-middle-of-the-sea-aren't-you-guys-jealous?-mails), and during
your leave of absence, we as a community still have plenty of
food-for-thought on the table you served us lately with. Enjoy a
well-deserved break!
We must all remember that we are in this for fun and intellectual
pleasure, and one should not remain cast in a role he/she doesn't find
funny anymore. As a PMC Chair, Stefano did a great job in moving us and
the project into an Apache top-level project and certainly brought a new
energy into the project lately.
As Nicola indicates, we shouldn't confuse the legal role of a Chair with
the role Stefano and many other committers have been fullfilling in
bringing on new ideas and RTs.
"Coming out", I assume at least some of you might be aware of recent bad
vibes between Stefano and me, but we spoke each other on the phone this
evening and the skies are cleared between us.
- o -
To reduce the weight that the role of a PMC Chair puts onto one's
shoulders, I propose to make the terms of our PMC Chair last only six
months (as is the situation with the Avalon project IIRC). The ancient
Athen democracy as described in
http://www.stoa.org/projects/demos/article_democracy_overview?page=all
was also keen on temporary roles, so that a community effectively,
one-term-at-a-time, becomes self-gouverning.
I'm cc'ing board to see whether this is OK by them, I've just read
article 5.2 of the ASF bylaws and ASF membership seems not to be a
requirement for a PMC Chair of a toplevel project (= Officer IIUC) -
this would be a problem otherwise, since we the amount of members
amongst our active committers
(http://www.apache.org/~jim/projects.html#cocoon-2.1) is fairly limited
compared to some other projects (like
http://www.apache.org/~jim/projects.html#httpd-2.0).
In the Apache style of self-empowerment, and given the fact the value I
can provide to this community isn't so much code-related, I would be
willing, upon your approval of course, to relieve Stefano from his
current role for the next six months to come.
Cheers,
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote, On 07/04/2003 18.53:
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
I think that many won't understand this much. I don't know if I
interpret you correctly, but I have been a chair of a project too,
Avalon, and know how one feels there.
Sam did a good outline of a Chair:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104801348501009&w=2
Let me try to tell all what I understand of this. I hope it helps.
> - o -
>
> The reasons for this are many, but mostly related to a general sense of
> friction brought together by my actions of moving the project forward
> and cleaning up all potential future legal problems.
>
> I now feel that my presence is an obstacle to the improvement of the
> diversity of this community, my position of 'sponsorship' often
> misinterpreted as 'leadership' and brings all sort of negativity on the
> table.
Stefano, this IMHO has nothing to do with you being chair. But everybody
please remember that being chair is a very strong feeling during
frictions, and Stefano has been both chair and part of these frictions
himself.
I am a project manager at work, so I kinda know how one feels during
these times, and was somewhat able to cope with it. But I know it's
*very* hard, and it does feel like a burden one has to carry alone.
> Moreover, I will be leaving for part two of my world tour in a few weeks
> and I won't be able to provide the oversight that my role requires and
> the board assumes.
Have a nice trip! :-)
Please do a blog, it will be fun to see!
...
> Some cocoon committers might feel responsible for this move or others
> might point fingers. Please don't. This idea of resigning has been
> around for months, I just happend to cross the borderline today.
Yes, I understand the feeling. Please guys, really try to understand
this. Being legally responsible for a project WRT the board is not
something that doesn't touch you.
> Interesting enough, I find myself relieved, not sad or angry or any
> negative feeling. This is very nice and will help me as well as the
> community to move forward.
If you felt the pressure, then this is just the right thing to do. It
will help both you and all of us, I'm sure.
Remember guys, the chair is *not* the technical lead. What do you want
Stefano to be, an apparatus man or the PITA the makes us *think*?
> Thanks for everything.
Stefano, thank you.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote, On 08/04/2003 0.11:
> on 4/7/03 11:21 PM Pier Fumagalli wrote:
...
>>I'm sure you won't be "that far" as much as you would like us to believe :-)
>
>
> I'm not going anywhere (virtually, I mean, physically I will go to south
> america vising good old Ricardo Rocha in Ecuador ;-).
WOOOOO!
Reeeal Cool, give him a hug from me, I miss him :,-(
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
on 4/7/03 11:21 PM Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> On 7/4/03 17:53, "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
>
>
> Well, knowing you from quite some time, even before this whole Apache thing
> started, I can understand your position and why you've decided to go away...
>
> I'm sure you won't be "that far" as much as you would like us to believe :-)
I'm not going anywhere (virtually, I mean, physically I will go to south
america vising good old Ricardo Rocha in Ecuador ;-).
I just resigned from the PMC chair role, that's all
--
Stefano.
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Lundi, 7 avr 2003, à 18:53 Europe/Zurich, Stefano Mazzocchi a écrit :
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC
> Chair....
Stefano, thanks for everything you have done and everything you are
doing for the project.
It might actually be a good thing for the project to have someone else
as the PMC chair, so that you can (even more) freely inject some
positive "disturbance in the force" at times ;-)
-Bertrand
RE: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de>.
>
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
>
Sorry to see this.
Matthew
RE: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Argyn <ak...@cox.net>.
I won't even pretend that I understand what's going on. :)
But I somewhat disagree on "balance thing": the perfect balance is a good
sign of absence of life.
Anyway, have a good tour. If you visit the Capital area of the land of the
free, let us know.
thanks,
Argyn
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:53 PM
> To: ASF Board
> Cc: Apache Cocoon
> Subject: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
>
>
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon
> PMC Chair.
...
> And I'm in the process of understanding what is good for my balance and
what it's not and being the cocoon PMC chair doesn't help me bring any
more balance to my life, thus this decision.
Re: Resigning from Cocoon PMC Chair
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 7/4/03 17:53, "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> I hereby resign from my ASF officer position of Apache Cocoon PMC Chair.
Well, knowing you from quite some time, even before this whole Apache thing
started, I can understand your position and why you've decided to go away...
I'm sure you won't be "that far" as much as you would like us to believe :-)
Pier