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Posted to rivet-dev@tcl.apache.org by Massimo Manghi <mx...@apache.org> on 2023/01/20 15:59:49 UTC
ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
The following blog post
https://blog.nativesintech.org/apache-appropriation/
triggered an intense (and at times harsh) discussion on the ASF members
list. As you may have read ASF is forming a committee tasked to reach
for the Apache Nation representatives and assess with them the usage of
the name Apache which is, as claimed in that post, to be an appropriation.
I hope we may avoid to enter a discussion on this topic, it's getting
overwhelmingly hard to follow it on the @members list. Currently a
couple of discussion threads on @members count hundreds of messages.
My personal perception is that a consensus is shaping up for rebranding
ASF, dropping the name Apache from the foundation name.
A few fellows who back in the mid-nineties were in the discussion about
the name to choose for the HTTP web server reported that Apache was seen
as problematic by many right from the beginning.
The name got momentum apparently because during the early HTTP web
server development someone called it 'a patchy web server', due to the
high number of patches that had been contributed. The pun a-patchy >
Apache worked so well that obliterated the concerns about the choice.
Probably the name Apache will be around in software and services for
many years to come, still my guess is that it will be removed from
project names and the feather removed from the ASF and ASF's projects
logos. We accidentally happen to have 2 feathers, one for ASF and one
for the Tcl programming language.
-- Massimo
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Re: ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
Posted by Massimo Manghi <ma...@gmail.com>.
this is discussed on the @members list. I might propose you as a member
of ASF if you want to be involved more intensely in ASF's life. That's
the place to start from.
Being basically a developer using Tcl I'm basically a lurker on
@members, where often discussions are around the ASF management and
other issues. There's the cyclical examination of new members proposals
which fill your mailbox of introductory messages describing the
contributions the person being proposed gave to the community.
and now there is the issue of the name appropriation that really
increased exponentially the number of messages for a week or so
-- Massimo
On 23/01/23 15:47, Georgios Petasis wrote:
> Dear Massimo,
>
> Thanks for the info, I still do not know where all these gets discussed.
>
> Best,
>
> George
>
> Στις 21/1/2023 17:33, ο/η Massimo Manghi έγραψε:
>>
>> I think Alex overreacted on this. As an European I know the feeling of
>> disbelief when I hear stories like git being called objectively a
>> racist project because of the development made on the 'master' branch
>> , but there are also real grievances to be addressed. I wish the North
>> American technological world (which is clearly the center of much of
>> the IT technology) could solve them.
>>
>> -- Massimo
>>
>>
>> On 20/01/23 17:42, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
>>> Am 20.01.2023 um 17:24 schrieb Brice Hamon:
>>>> Thanks for the info Massimo.
>>>>
>>>> What a mess for such little points, IMO.
>>>
>>> Yes, the TCL community has lost Alex Brester with Russian heritage
>>> living in Hamburg/Germany due to the change of "slave" to "client".
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Harald
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
Posted by Georgios Petasis <pe...@apache.org>.
Dear Massimo,
Thanks for the info, I still do not know where all these gets discussed.
Best,
George
Στις 21/1/2023 17:33, ο/η Massimo Manghi έγραψε:
>
> I think Alex overreacted on this. As an European I know the feeling of
> disbelief when I hear stories like git being called objectively a
> racist project because of the development made on the 'master' branch
> , but there are also real grievances to be addressed. I wish the North
> American technological world (which is clearly the center of much of
> the IT technology) could solve them.
>
> -- Massimo
>
>
> On 20/01/23 17:42, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
>> Am 20.01.2023 um 17:24 schrieb Brice Hamon:
>>> Thanks for the info Massimo.
>>>
>>> What a mess for such little points, IMO.
>>
>> Yes, the TCL community has lost Alex Brester with Russian heritage
>> living in Hamburg/Germany due to the change of "slave" to "client".
>>
>> Take care,
>> Harald
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: rivet-dev-unsubscribe@tcl.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: rivet-dev-help@tcl.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
Posted by Massimo Manghi <mx...@apache.org>.
I think Alex overreacted on this. As an European I know the feeling of
disbelief when I hear stories like git being called objectively a racist
project because of the development made on the 'master' branch , but
there are also real grievances to be addressed. I wish the North
American technological world (which is clearly the center of much of the
IT technology) could solve them.
-- Massimo
On 20/01/23 17:42, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
> Am 20.01.2023 um 17:24 schrieb Brice Hamon:
>> Thanks for the info Massimo.
>>
>> What a mess for such little points, IMO.
>
> Yes, the TCL community has lost Alex Brester with Russian heritage
> living in Hamburg/Germany due to the change of "slave" to "client".
>
> Take care,
> Harald
>
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Re: ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
Posted by Harald Oehlmann <ha...@elmicron.de>.
Am 20.01.2023 um 17:24 schrieb Brice Hamon:
> Thanks for the info Massimo.
>
> What a mess for such little points, IMO.
Yes, the TCL community has lost Alex Brester with Russian heritage
living in Hamburg/Germany due to the change of "slave" to "client".
Take care,
Harald
Re: ASF likely to rebrand and drop the name 'Apache'
Posted by Brice Hamon <no...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the info Massimo.
What a mess for such little points, IMO.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:03 AM Massimo Manghi <mx...@apache.org> wrote:
> The following blog post
>
> https://blog.nativesintech.org/apache-appropriation/
>
> triggered an intense (and at times harsh) discussion on the ASF members
> list. As you may have read ASF is forming a committee tasked to reach
> for the Apache Nation representatives and assess with them the usage of
> the name Apache which is, as claimed in that post, to be an appropriation.
>
> I hope we may avoid to enter a discussion on this topic, it's getting
> overwhelmingly hard to follow it on the @members list. Currently a
> couple of discussion threads on @members count hundreds of messages.
>
> My personal perception is that a consensus is shaping up for rebranding
> ASF, dropping the name Apache from the foundation name.
>
> A few fellows who back in the mid-nineties were in the discussion about
> the name to choose for the HTTP web server reported that Apache was seen
> as problematic by many right from the beginning.
>
> The name got momentum apparently because during the early HTTP web
> server development someone called it 'a patchy web server', due to the
> high number of patches that had been contributed. The pun a-patchy >
> Apache worked so well that obliterated the concerns about the choice.
>
> Probably the name Apache will be around in software and services for
> many years to come, still my guess is that it will be removed from
> project names and the feather removed from the ASF and ASF's projects
> logos. We accidentally happen to have 2 feathers, one for ASF and one
> for the Tcl programming language.
>
> -- Massimo
>
>