You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr> on 2012/02/22 10:29:32 UTC
Early access to Falcon compiler
At the Paris Flex meeting, I spoke with Thibault Imbert, who is Senior Runtimes product manager , about the fact that the Apache Flex project would really benefit from having some kind of early access to the new Falcon compiler, at least to undestand it and to have to opportunity to think about what we will have to do after the donation for the MXML and HTML/JS part, and to help the project momentum by not waiting to 2013 to start working on it.
Thibault was really interested about this feedback, and quite open to discuss what could possibly be done before the full donation in order to help us move the projects forward.
I'm not a compiler guy at all so I used what I remembered from the discussions on this list for my different ideas (from the best one for us to the easiest for Adobe):
- Early access to the source code in a Adobe Flex SDK way (see it but don't touch it ;) )
- Release of alpha/beta version of the compiler to start working with it
- Disclosure of the API/compiler mecanism
- Early documentation about how the compiler works
I will see Thibault again at between 6.30PM and 8.30PM GMT + 1 (Paris), so if compiler guys (Michael, David, etc.) would chime in and have some ideas/precisions, I'd gladly forward them.
Dimitri K.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> At the Paris Flex meeting, I spoke with Thibault Imbert, who is Senior
> Runtimes product manager , about the fact that the Apache Flex project
> would really benefit from having some kind of early access to the new
> Falcon compiler, at least to undestand it and to have to opportunity to
> think about what we will have to do after the donation for the MXML and
> HTML/JS part, and to help the project momentum by not waiting to 2013 to
> start working on it.
>
> Thibault was really interested about this feedback, and quite open to
> discuss what could possibly be done before the full donation in order to
> help us move the projects forward.
> I'm not a compiler guy at all so I used what I remembered from the
> discussions on this list for my different ideas (from the best one for us
> to the easiest for Adobe):
>
> - Early access to the source code in a Adobe Flex SDK way (see it but
> don't touch it ;) )
> - Release of alpha/beta version of the compiler to start working with it
> - Disclosure of the API/compiler mecanism
> - Early documentation about how the compiler works
>
> I will see Thibault again at between 6.30PM and 8.30PM GMT + 1 (Paris), so
> if compiler guys (Michael, David, etc.) would chime in and have some
> ideas/precisions, I'd gladly forward them.
>
That sounds pretty great Dimitri! I think what also would be important is
some kind of feedback mechanism, so perhaps a dedicated JIRA instance where
we can post bugs, patches, etc.
No good in playing around with the code if we don't have a proper way of
communicating with the development team.
cheers,
Roland
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe Falcon will do a non-NDA pre-release so you can see the code...
>
I think that's what all of us are asking for if we can't get the compiler
any sooner.
...but I don't think you can go modify it and put it in the Apache SVN.
The same as before. If we can't get the compiler sooner then we'll still be
able to learn from it rather than it being a black box until it's released.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Doug Arthur <do...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2/22/12 11:34 AM, "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
>
>> As a developer I know that when being stuck, sometimes a clear mind
>> helps. I basically just
>> wanted to offer my help and was suggesting that I wasn't the only one.
> And I really appreciate your energy and contributions. And you are not the
> only one. I hope we will find a way to donate the Falcon code earlier than
> is now stated. It will depend on time and resources.
>
> Maybe Falcon will do a non-NDA pre-release so you can see the code, but I
> don't think you can go modify it and put it in the Apache SVN. Not without
> someone doing the whole legal review thing that has delayed getting the
> framework in.
>
> The biggest obstacle will likely be that management will come and ask me how
> much distraction it was to donate the framework and the answer will make
> them skittish about donating Falcon until things "quiet down".
>
> Once I get through donating the framework and then 3.x, I will look into
> ways to donate Falcon earlier.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
I think the non-DNA agreement would be a great approach, and the
process to get it contributed can be as scheduled. So long as we have
a head start, and once it gets approved any changes we have can go
right. We will assume the risk of the legal hurdles that any efforts
we make were in vane. We might even decide to completely deviate from
the Falcon compiler all together as discussed in other threads, but
having that insight into what's going on with the compiler will be a
huge win, and it doesn't have to be a distraction much past getting
that non-DNA ironed out.
Thanks!
- Doug
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/22/12 11:34 AM, "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
> As a developer I know that when being stuck, sometimes a clear mind
> helps. I basically just
> wanted to offer my help and was suggesting that I wasn't the only one.
And I really appreciate your energy and contributions. And you are not the
only one. I hope we will find a way to donate the Falcon code earlier than
is now stated. It will depend on time and resources.
Maybe Falcon will do a non-NDA pre-release so you can see the code, but I
don't think you can go modify it and put it in the Apache SVN. Not without
someone doing the whole legal review thing that has delayed getting the
framework in.
The biggest obstacle will likely be that management will come and ask me how
much distraction it was to donate the framework and the answer will make
them skittish about donating Falcon until things "quiet down".
Once I get through donating the framework and then 3.x, I will look into
ways to donate Falcon earlier.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 23/02/2012 04:19, Alex Harui wrote:
> Falcon is simply being developed as closed source in the interest of time.
> In fact, Gordon Smith is on the Falcon team and is monitoring the Apache
> Flex mailing list, but they are working on AS3. The MXML compiler code they
> wrote earlier is still in there, but is not being worked on at all. And I
> cannot recommend they take the time to start having these discussions given
> their tight schedule.
As a developer I know that when being stuck, sometimes a clear mind
helps. I basically just
wanted to offer my help and was suggesting that I wasn't the only one.
yours
Martin.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/22/12 11:09 AM, "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
> I mean:
> Somehow it seems like there is no question to them on the path where the
> Apache community could help. Aside from that: If you want to develop a
> compiler for Gaming you should drop all "enterprise" features like mxml
> or binding for a getting it out fast.
Falcon is simply being developed as closed source in the interest of time.
In fact, Gordon Smith is on the Falcon team and is monitoring the Apache
Flex mailing list, but they are working on AS3. The MXML compiler code they
wrote earlier is still in there, but is not being worked on at all. And I
cannot recommend they take the time to start having these discussions given
their tight schedule.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 23/02/2012 03:54, Alex Harui wrote:
> Adobe employees involved in Apache Flex are discussing things on the Apache
> Flex mailing list.
I guess that is common knowledge. I am saying that Adobe employees that
are involved in the AS3/MXML compiler writing should be too. I mean:
Somehow it seems like there is no question to them on the path where the
Apache community could help. Aside from that: If you want to develop a
compiler for Gaming you should drop all "enterprise" features like mxml
or binding for a getting it out fast.
> I think it is too late for Falcon. It has been developed as closed source
> for a while now and opening it now will simply delay it from its primary
> goal.
Well it was just a thought anyways, I am sure you know the hazzle of
that better.
yours
Martin.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/22/12 4:16 AM, "Martin Heidegger" <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
> On 22/02/2012 18:29, Dimitri k. wrote:
>> At the Paris Flex meeting, I spoke with Thibault Imbert, who is Senior
>> Runtimes product manager , about the fact that the Apache Flex project would
>> really benefit from having some kind of early access to the new Falcon
>> compiler, at least to undestand it and to have to opportunity to think about
>> what we will have to do after the donation for the MXML and HTML/JS part, and
>> to help the project momentum by not waiting to 2013 to start working on it.
>>
>> Thibault was really interested about this feedback, and quite open to discuss
>> what could possibly be done before the full donation in order to help us move
>> the projects forward.
>> I'm not a compiler guy at all so I used what I remembered from the
>> discussions on this list for my different ideas (from the best one for us to
>> the easiest for Adobe):
>>
>> - Early access to the source code in a Adobe Flex SDK way (see it but don't
>> touch it ;) )
>> - Release of alpha/beta version of the compiler to start working with it
>> - Disclosure of the API/compiler mecanism
>> - Early documentation about how the compiler works
>>
>> I will see Thibault again at between 6.30PM and 8.30PM GMT + 1 (Paris), so if
>> compiler guys (Michael, David, etc.) would chime in and have some
>> ideas/precisions, I'd gladly forward them.
>>
>> Dimitri K.
>
> Isn't it interesting for Adobe to get input from the Apache community
> about the project? They want to commit it in the end, right? To commit
> it the developers here should approve the commission. It is somewhat
> risky for Adobe to develop something for a year or two, hoping that its
> in sync with the aims that Apache Flex has by then.
Adobe is primarily interested in making sure Falcon compiles AS3 projects
for Gaming. Apache Flex is not a primary focus and they have a tight
deadline (as you can see it has already slipped) so as an Adobe employee I
don't think I can recommend that Adobe finish Falcon AS3 in the open. I've
seen how much time it has taken to get the framework going. But Adobe will
contribute the MXML work it had completed and Apache folks will finish it in
the open. We'll probably keep the MXML parsing, toss the
one-method-per-tag code and rewrite the output more along the code I wrote.
>
> I think its Adobe should be strongly encourage its developers to discuss
> things/questions on the mailinglist and ask for help.
Adobe employees involved in Apache Flex are discussing things on the Apache
Flex mailing list.
>
> But aside from that: creating a "closed-no-eyes" development attitude is
> a little uncomfortable giving that all other contributors discuss their
> contributions in public. I saw that the contributions Adobe did till now
> take a while and I am sure they will take a while for Falcon as well: If
> you have "from start" a open development model then they might avoid
> this effort in the "big contribution" process and they would get input
> right away.
I think it is too late for Falcon. It has been developed as closed source
for a while now and opening it now will simply delay it from its primary
goal.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 22/02/2012 18:29, Dimitri k. wrote:
> At the Paris Flex meeting, I spoke with Thibault Imbert, who is Senior Runtimes product manager , about the fact that the Apache Flex project would really benefit from having some kind of early access to the new Falcon compiler, at least to undestand it and to have to opportunity to think about what we will have to do after the donation for the MXML and HTML/JS part, and to help the project momentum by not waiting to 2013 to start working on it.
>
> Thibault was really interested about this feedback, and quite open to discuss what could possibly be done before the full donation in order to help us move the projects forward.
> I'm not a compiler guy at all so I used what I remembered from the discussions on this list for my different ideas (from the best one for us to the easiest for Adobe):
>
> - Early access to the source code in a Adobe Flex SDK way (see it but don't touch it ;) )
> - Release of alpha/beta version of the compiler to start working with it
> - Disclosure of the API/compiler mecanism
> - Early documentation about how the compiler works
>
> I will see Thibault again at between 6.30PM and 8.30PM GMT + 1 (Paris), so if compiler guys (Michael, David, etc.) would chime in and have some ideas/precisions, I'd gladly forward them.
>
> Dimitri K.
Isn't it interesting for Adobe to get input from the Apache community
about the project? They want to commit it in the end, right? To commit
it the developers here should approve the commission. It is somewhat
risky for Adobe to develop something for a year or two, hoping that its
in sync with the aims that Apache Flex has by then.
I think its Adobe should be strongly encourage its developers to discuss
things/questions on the mailinglist and ask for help. Not just that:
Adobe is always free to ask for help here. And I for one would be
curious as to what Adobe is working on.
But aside from that: creating a "closed-no-eyes" development attitude is
a little uncomfortable giving that all other contributors discuss their
contributions in public. I saw that the contributions Adobe did till now
take a while and I am sure they will take a while for Falcon as well: If
you have "from start" a open development model then they might avoid
this effort in the "big contribution" process and they would get input
right away.
yours
Martin.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by Jack Ring <ja...@gmail.com>.
+1 for design view.
On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Pepe <pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for Design View
>
> 2012/2/22 Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr>:
>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would be
>> a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could consider
>> to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash Builder.
>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>> that.
>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>
>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>
>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use it
>> myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for Apache
>> Flex:
>>
>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
>> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>
>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their Flex
>> workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
>> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>> avoiding "design re-compilation".
>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
>> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
>> in it to train their employees.
>>
>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can test
>> quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>>
>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in a
>> way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>
>> Dimitri K.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Pepe <pe...@gmail.com>.
+1 for Design View
2012/2/22 Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr>:
> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would be
> a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could consider
> to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash Builder.
> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
> that.
> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use it
> myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for Apache
> Flex:
>
> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>
> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their Flex
> workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
> avoiding "design re-compilation".
> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
> in it to train their employees.
>
> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can test
> quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>
> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in a
> way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>
> Dimitri K.
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>.
Thank's Om for this precision.
Frédéric THOMAS
> From: bigosmallm@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:09:53 -0800
> Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
> Okay, I took a peep into the plugins folder of my Flash Builder 4 install
> location. I see that the design view is indeed a plugin
> (com.adobe.flexbuilder.designview_4.0.0.272416)
>
> There is a swf and an AIR application descriptor xml. It appears that
> Flash Builder embeds this AIR application in its view. And as expected the
> plugin's jar file contains the Java code that interfaces between the swf
> and Eclipse.
>
> I think we can expect the Java code as well as the AIR application's code
> base (if we get it, that is)
>
> Om
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.
Okay, I took a peep into the plugins folder of my Flash Builder 4 install
location. I see that the design view is indeed a plugin
(com.adobe.flexbuilder.designview_4.0.0.272416)
There is a swf and an AIR application descriptor xml. It appears that
Flash Builder embeds this AIR application in its view. And as expected the
plugin's jar file contains the Java code that interfaces between the swf
and Eclipse.
I think we can expect the Java code as well as the AIR application's code
base (if we get it, that is)
Om
2012/2/23 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>
>
> The point is that, it's not the Flash builder, it is the design view only,
> so, they first have to check if it is possible to give only the code of
> this part.
>
> Frédéric THOMAS
>
> > From: bigosmallm@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:56:23 -0800
> > Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there
> is sufficient interest
> > To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > I am curious about what exactly would(may) be donated? Is it an Eclipse
> > plugin? I heard someone mention that it is a Flex application. Can
> > someone shed some light on the specifics?
> >
> > That said, +1 from me for open sourcing the Design View. I would love to
> > contribute in that area.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Om
> >
> > 2012/2/23 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>
> >
> > >
> > > When I asked to Deepa two days ago about the Design view, I had in
> mind,
> > > the fact that, although I am an experienced Flex developer, I still
> use it,
> > > it is very convenient for the drafts, as in companies, it is very
> handy and
> > > valuable to present quick prototypes and finally it's a tool that can
> > > attract a lot of new developers, what would then be very beneficial
> for the
> > > community, I've been very pleased and surprised by her answer, she
> told me
> > > Adobe had never thought about it and had never been asked to do it and
> > > finally, that this could be a good idea to speak about it on the ML,
> so,
> > > thank you Dimitry for having done it, I had really no time to do it
> by
> > > myself and written, your english is far better than mine ;)
> > >
> > > Then, when I met Deepa last night she made me the feed back that,
> first of
> > > all, they need check first whether it is technically possible to
> provide
> > > the code of the design view only (and then, I guess, to make some
> legals
> > > clearences).
> > > Frédéric THOMAS
>
>
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>.
The point is that, it's not the Flash builder, it is the design view only, so, they first have to check if it is possible to give only the code of this part.
Frédéric THOMAS
> From: bigosmallm@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:56:23 -0800
> Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
> I am curious about what exactly would(may) be donated? Is it an Eclipse
> plugin? I heard someone mention that it is a Flex application. Can
> someone shed some light on the specifics?
>
> That said, +1 from me for open sourcing the Design View. I would love to
> contribute in that area.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
> 2012/2/23 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>
>
> >
> > When I asked to Deepa two days ago about the Design view, I had in mind,
> > the fact that, although I am an experienced Flex developer, I still use it,
> > it is very convenient for the drafts, as in companies, it is very handy and
> > valuable to present quick prototypes and finally it's a tool that can
> > attract a lot of new developers, what would then be very beneficial for the
> > community, I've been very pleased and surprised by her answer, she told me
> > Adobe had never thought about it and had never been asked to do it and
> > finally, that this could be a good idea to speak about it on the ML, so,
> > thank you Dimitry for having done it, I had really no time to do it by
> > myself and written, your english is far better than mine ;)
> >
> > Then, when I met Deepa last night she made me the feed back that, first of
> > all, they need check first whether it is technically possible to provide
> > the code of the design view only (and then, I guess, to make some legals
> > clearences).
> > Frédéric THOMAS
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by "Reynolds, Brian J (Brian)" <re...@avaya.com>.
+1 from me as well. The design view does help especially when it comes to
quick prototypes.
Brian
On 2/23/12 4:56 PM, "Om" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I am curious about what exactly would(may) be donated? Is it an Eclipse
>plugin? I heard someone mention that it is a Flex application. Can
>someone shed some light on the specifics?
>
>That said, +1 from me for open sourcing the Design View. I would love to
>contribute in that area.
>
>Thanks,
>Om
>
>2012/2/23 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>
>
>>
>> When I asked to Deepa two days ago about the Design view, I had in mind,
>> the fact that, although I am an experienced Flex developer, I still use
>>it,
>> it is very convenient for the drafts, as in companies, it is very handy
>>and
>> valuable to present quick prototypes and finally it's a tool that can
>> attract a lot of new developers, what would then be very beneficial for
>>the
>> community, I've been very pleased and surprised by her answer, she told
>>me
>> Adobe had never thought about it and had never been asked to do it and
>> finally, that this could be a good idea to speak about it on the ML, so,
>> thank you Dimitry for having done it, I had really no time to do it by
>> myself and written, your english is far better than mine ;)
>>
>> Then, when I met Deepa last night she made me the feed back that, first
>>of
>> all, they need check first whether it is technically possible to provide
>> the code of the design view only (and then, I guess, to make some legals
>> clearences).
>> Frédéric THOMAS
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.
I am curious about what exactly would(may) be donated? Is it an Eclipse
plugin? I heard someone mention that it is a Flex application. Can
someone shed some light on the specifics?
That said, +1 from me for open sourcing the Design View. I would love to
contribute in that area.
Thanks,
Om
2012/2/23 Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>
>
> When I asked to Deepa two days ago about the Design view, I had in mind,
> the fact that, although I am an experienced Flex developer, I still use it,
> it is very convenient for the drafts, as in companies, it is very handy and
> valuable to present quick prototypes and finally it's a tool that can
> attract a lot of new developers, what would then be very beneficial for the
> community, I've been very pleased and surprised by her answer, she told me
> Adobe had never thought about it and had never been asked to do it and
> finally, that this could be a good idea to speak about it on the ML, so,
> thank you Dimitry for having done it, I had really no time to do it by
> myself and written, your english is far better than mine ;)
>
> Then, when I met Deepa last night she made me the feed back that, first of
> all, they need check first whether it is technically possible to provide
> the code of the design view only (and then, I guess, to make some legals
> clearences).
> Frédéric THOMAS
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Frédéric THOMAS <we...@hotmail.com>.
When I asked to Deepa two days ago about the Design view, I had in mind, the fact that, although I am an experienced Flex developer, I still use it, it is very convenient for the drafts, as in companies, it is very handy and valuable to present quick prototypes and finally it's a tool that can attract a lot of new developers, what would then be very beneficial for the community, I've been very pleased and surprised by her answer, she told me Adobe had never thought about it and had never been asked to do it and finally, that this could be a good idea to speak about it on the ML, so, thank you Dimitry for having done it, I had really no time to do it by myself and written, your english is far better than mine ;)
Then, when I met Deepa last night she made me the feed back that, first of all, they need check first whether it is technically possible to provide the code of the design view only (and then, I guess, to make some legals clearences).
Frédéric THOMAS
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Nicolas COQUELET <ni...@gmail.com>.
+1
I would like a designer which can do quick preview of my items renderer and
help me to make adjustements.
2012/2/23 JP Bader <jp...@zavteq.com>
> +1 for Dmitri's follow through! Thank you!
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>
> >>
> >> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe
> we
> >> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> >> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> >> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
> >>
> >> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> >> interest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is my follow up concerning the Design View.
> > I talked to Deepa yesterday, and she said that she saw the thread and the
> > manifested interest, and that she contacted the Flash Builder PM to have
> him
> > check if and how the Design View could be open-sourced.
> >
> > So, we'll see, but I've got a good feeling about this.
> >
> > Dimitri K.
>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp@zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by JP Bader <jp...@zavteq.com>.
+1 for Dmitri's follow through! Thank you!
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>
>>
>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>
>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>> interest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
>
>
> Here is my follow up concerning the Design View.
> I talked to Deepa yesterday, and she said that she saw the thread and the
> manifested interest, and that she contacted the Flash Builder PM to have him
> check if and how the Design View could be open-sourced.
>
> So, we'll see, but I've got a good feeling about this.
>
> Dimitri K.
--
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp@zavteq.com
608.692.2468
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>
> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> interest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
Here is my follow up concerning the Design View.
I talked to Deepa yesterday, and she said that she saw the thread and the
manifested interest, and that she contacted the Flash Builder PM to have him
check if and how the Design View could be open-sourced.
So, we'll see, but I've got a good feeling about this.
Dimitri K.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Haykel BEN JEMIA <ha...@gmail.com>.
+1.
Improving it and adding skinning could make it valuable even for advanced
developers.
Haykel
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Pepe <pe...@gmail.com>.
Sorry, I knew those. I just wanted to say. Never mind...
Shigeru Nakagaki
2012/2/22 Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Pepe <pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why does not Adobe contribute Flash Builder to Eclipse Foundation?
>> # Then it might support 64bit and Eclipse plug-in.
>>
>> Shigeru Nakagaki
>>
>
> Simply because that wouldn't make them money. And Adobe is about making
> money.
>
> But, let's stay on topic, this mailing list is for Apache Flex and we can't
> really speak for Adobe and speculating is not beneficial to the purpose of
> this mailing list.
>
> --
> Omar Gonzalez
> s9tpepper@apache.org
> Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Pepe <pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why does not Adobe contribute Flash Builder to Eclipse Foundation?
> # Then it might support 64bit and Eclipse plug-in.
>
> Shigeru Nakagaki
>
Simply because that wouldn't make them money. And Adobe is about making
money.
But, let's stay on topic, this mailing list is for Apache Flex and we can't
really speak for Adobe and speculating is not beneficial to the purpose of
this mailing list.
--
Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 22/02/2012 19:55, Pepe wrote:
> Why does not Adobe contribute Flash Builder to Eclipse Foundation?
> # Then it might support 64bit and Eclipse plug-in.
I guess its because they still want to sell Flash Builder :)
yours
Martin.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Pepe <pe...@gmail.com>.
Why does not Adobe contribute Flash Builder to Eclipse Foundation?
# Then it might support 64bit and Eclipse plug-in.
Shigeru Nakagaki
2012/2/22 Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>:
> +0.9
>
> I agree that the design view would be nice - but only if it doesn't delay
> other contributions such as the compiler.
>
> yours
> Martin
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
+0.9
I agree that the design view would be nice - but only if it doesn't
delay other contributions such as the compiler.
yours
Martin
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffry Houser" <je...@dot-com-it.com>
> This is a high traffic mailing list; so I get frustrated with the
> occasional barrage of "me too/+1" non-vote-thread posts which add nothing
> to any discussion.
>
> I question how many of the people who want this are willing to put time
> and effort into maintaining it.
>
I understand your concern (/frustration), but in this case, I think it was
important to gauge the interest of the community.
And I think at least 5 people express their will to contribute.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>.
I like what Cortlandt is saying here. While I don't disregard a new compiler or outputting HTML as worthy goals, they seem like long term goals to me.
And while Adobe is focusing Flash Player on gaming, I don't see how that will negatively affect Flex since we already have the features we need to develop awesome enterprise apps. I don't see why, given Adobe's roadmap, we can't expect to build Flash and AIR apps as we have been for the next 10 years or more.
While I don't quite see how important the WYSIWYG tools are, I do think that improving our Spark controls, skins, build tools, IDEs, docs, educational materials, and designer/developer workflows would help strengthen our community and our productivity.
Cortlandt, plus one for writing this post.
Ariel Jakobovits
Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
Phone: 650-690-2213
Fax: 650-641-0031
Cell: 650-823-8699
________________________________
From: Cortlandt Winters <co...@cortwinters.net>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; jeffry@dot-com-it.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Hi Jeffrey,
If anything is more frustrating than the Me 2's to expanding and improving
existing features it's the constant whining and noise about what adobe
could have done or isn't willing to do, or speculation about totally
throwing away the baby with the bathwate0,r or core framework features for
some conceptual idea that would take years to implement in order to cover a
niche case.
Actionscript is a good language
The Flex 3 mx components were awesome.
The Flex 4 spark ones are well designed and have the potential to be
awesome. Adobe has comitted to finishing the work up.
What we need to do as a community for v5 is to support that and to show
that a couple hundred thousand experienced UI designer/programmers can do
better than what is currently out there for interaction design and
prototyping. Rely on the fact that the Adobe guys can deliver with falcon,
they've been investigating these issues for a while now. If falcon
under-impreses lets see what alternatives we can come up with, not before.
But people, lets stick with the program, at least as it exists.
There are 3 pieces of low hanging fruit that flex developers should be
focusing on now as a community.
1) creating some good training apps.
2) create some decent skins so that a programming team of 2 doesn't have to
go html because they can't afford the ducats to skin their app otherwise
(assuming that one believes the hype that such will be easy with html in
days to come)
3) create the kick-ass prototyping tool that catalyst wanted to be.
I'm not sure that I would contribute to design view, but I certainly could
do so if it is flex rather than java based. And I can guarantee you that
I'll be contributing to some sort of designing and prototyping tool in the
next two years as that's the new frontier. Catalyst failed, Html css design
tools suck, css sucks without a good design tool to support it. When I saw
Calalyst I totally wanted to start working on my own tool because I felt
that it missed on so many critical points and I saw it as a market for the
future. But I'm just one dude with plenty of side projects as it is. Still,
I feel that there are easily 20-30k developer/interaction designers that
are the best in the world at what they do ready to take on this task for
the fun of it if they have the time to do so.
Right now we have flash content and the fact that it's (finally) become
easy to use in flex. And no way to create good visual content for html.
I used Laszlo for 3 years until flex 3 came out and what killed Laslzo was
the lack of any good wysiwyg design tools.
Design tools will determine the success of the next internet application
framework. Nothing else.
Ignore them at your peril.
Flex 3 and Flex 4 components both need them.
I think it could be a huge help to add the design view to the community. At
the very least least a dozen folk will look at it and it will either inform
them on how to do it better or they will keep in in mind until at some
point in the future it becomes important.
I challenge all readers here
Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
prototyping tool. We've got native regular expressions, hell we can create
our own efficient compilers in actionscript now. Bitmap rendering, sound,
video, fancy datasets, nice layout and text frameworks.
If we could get a full html rendering engine. That's the only thing I can
think of that would be better than a good prototyping and design tool.
Whether it's based on design view or runtime rendering like the old flex
style explorer, which is more the direction I'd like to go. This should be
the primary focus of Apache flex 5.
Fancy internal rewirings should come after that.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 11:41 AM, Dimitri k. wrote:
>
>> From: "Jeffry Houser" <je...@dot-com-it.com>
>>
>>> I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>>>
>>> Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made
>>> sense when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and accessible
>>> to anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to fulfill that role,
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Maybe you haven't read my email which started this thread: This
>> discussion started because Deepa from Adobe said that it could be a
>> possibility, and said that if sufficient interest for it was shown on the
>> ML, it will help make it happen.
>>
>
> This is a high traffic mailing list; so I get frustrated with the
> occasional barrage of "me too/+1" non-vote-thread posts which add nothing
> to any discussion.
>
> I question how many of the people who want this are willing to put time
> and effort into maintaining it.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Cortlandt Winters <co...@cortwinters.net>.
Yes, I agree, and I certainly agree that a command queue would be a great
feature, especially for testing and debugging. I was really just trying to
make the case that it was worth the space to discuss it and got a bit
overly strident about that.
I also think that the design and prototyping issue is just such an
important one that we should approach it in as may different directions as
we can think of and have the energy for. I'm encouraged with the FDT effort
and some of these other efforts as well.
Personally what I'm most interested in is a runtime design tool like an
advanced version of the old flex style explorer where basically you have
your flex app in one tab or browser instance and your design tool in
another tab or browser instance that looks for Id's and skin declarations
to put in a tree that allow you to select them and map their properties
dynamically to a hierarchy of css classes that you organize in the skinning
view.
But the main point is that we need to attack this issue from as many
different directions as possible. Just by being able to examine the design
view and seeing for ourselves what the problems and prospects are will
inform us better as to what direction to go in.
It's not a question of "is design view the way to go" it's "what's the
process by which we discover the way in which to go". Folk are interested
in the issue itself very deeply. Enough that I think we can guarantee that
folk will try it. In the end if we experiment with all the different
directions enough, we'll get the best results from the darwinian process of
open source where good ideas will get cannibalized by each other until a
good solution appears from the process.
Anyway thanks for listening. And thanks for looking into this.
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2/23/12 4:09 PM, "Scott Delamater" <sc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I challenge all readers here
> >>
> >> Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
> >> prototyping tool.
> >
> > ...
> > Personally I'd prioritize and contribute to any of those long before I'd
> > devote time to a WYSIWYG tool.
> >
> The great thing about Apache Flex is that we don't really have to agree on
> prioritization. If you have time to work on something, you do it.
>
> DesignView is a bunch of stuff (Java, SWF, player). Again, because of the
> overhead of donation, I wouldn't hold my breath because I think those
> engineers are busy on some tight schedules as well.
>
> We can look into donating it (and other plugins), but I still think
> DesignView needs a serious upgrade as it is currently high maintenance. It
> is tied to an SDK version and therefore needs upgrading with each release
> (and we're going to release way more often at Apache) and doesn't support
> components from different versions.
>
> There might be some useful stuff to re-use from what would get donated, but
> the key piece is probably just how to get the SWF to play within Eclipse.
> The other key pieces (how to show properties to edit, for example) deserve
> a
> re-think.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Paul Hastings <pa...@gmail.com>.
On 2/24/2012 7:09 AM, Scott Delamater wrote:
> You could also refer to:
> http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/SDK#selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project%3Apopularissues-panel
not exactly fair, data came before adobe OS-ed flex & announced dropping design
view from FB.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/23/12 4:09 PM, "Scott Delamater" <sc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I challenge all readers here
>>
>> Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
>> prototyping tool.
>
> ...
> Personally I'd prioritize and contribute to any of those long before I'd
> devote time to a WYSIWYG tool.
>
The great thing about Apache Flex is that we don't really have to agree on
prioritization. If you have time to work on something, you do it.
DesignView is a bunch of stuff (Java, SWF, player). Again, because of the
overhead of donation, I wouldn't hold my breath because I think those
engineers are busy on some tight schedules as well.
We can look into donating it (and other plugins), but I still think
DesignView needs a serious upgrade as it is currently high maintenance. It
is tied to an SDK version and therefore needs upgrading with each release
(and we're going to release way more often at Apache) and doesn't support
components from different versions.
There might be some useful stuff to re-use from what would get donated, but
the key piece is probably just how to get the SWF to play within Eclipse.
The other key pieces (how to show properties to edit, for example) deserve a
re-think.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Scott Delamater <sc...@gmail.com>.
>
> I challenge all readers here
>
> Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
> prototyping tool.
>From an informal office poll of some of our engineers here at Shutterfly,
my thoughts included:
- A real collections API (@see
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/collections/index.html
)
- A lightweight component framework (see some of Alex's comments in past
threads)
- A formal event execution queue (e.g., immediate or deferred;
enterFrame doesn't qualify)
- Better Maven support
- More informative uncaught error handling (which is more of a
FlashPlayer issue, I suppose)
Personally I'd prioritize and contribute to any of those long before I'd
devote time to a WYSIWYG tool.
You could also refer to:
http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/SDK#selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project%3Apopularissues-panel
sD
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Cortlandt Winters <co...@cortwinters.net>.
Hi Jeffrey,
If anything is more frustrating than the Me 2's to expanding and improving
existing features it's the constant whining and noise about what adobe
could have done or isn't willing to do, or speculation about totally
throwing away the baby with the bathwate0,r or core framework features for
some conceptual idea that would take years to implement in order to cover a
niche case.
Actionscript is a good language
The Flex 3 mx components were awesome.
The Flex 4 spark ones are well designed and have the potential to be
awesome. Adobe has comitted to finishing the work up.
What we need to do as a community for v5 is to support that and to show
that a couple hundred thousand experienced UI designer/programmers can do
better than what is currently out there for interaction design and
prototyping. Rely on the fact that the Adobe guys can deliver with falcon,
they've been investigating these issues for a while now. If falcon
under-impreses lets see what alternatives we can come up with, not before.
But people, lets stick with the program, at least as it exists.
There are 3 pieces of low hanging fruit that flex developers should be
focusing on now as a community.
1) creating some good training apps.
2) create some decent skins so that a programming team of 2 doesn't have to
go html because they can't afford the ducats to skin their app otherwise
(assuming that one believes the hype that such will be easy with html in
days to come)
3) create the kick-ass prototyping tool that catalyst wanted to be.
I'm not sure that I would contribute to design view, but I certainly could
do so if it is flex rather than java based. And I can guarantee you that
I'll be contributing to some sort of designing and prototyping tool in the
next two years as that's the new frontier. Catalyst failed, Html css design
tools suck, css sucks without a good design tool to support it. When I saw
Calalyst I totally wanted to start working on my own tool because I felt
that it missed on so many critical points and I saw it as a market for the
future. But I'm just one dude with plenty of side projects as it is. Still,
I feel that there are easily 20-30k developer/interaction designers that
are the best in the world at what they do ready to take on this task for
the fun of it if they have the time to do so.
Right now we have flash content and the fact that it's (finally) become
easy to use in flex. And no way to create good visual content for html.
I used Laszlo for 3 years until flex 3 came out and what killed Laslzo was
the lack of any good wysiwyg design tools.
Design tools will determine the success of the next internet application
framework. Nothing else.
Ignore them at your peril.
Flex 3 and Flex 4 components both need them.
I think it could be a huge help to add the design view to the community. At
the very least least a dozen folk will look at it and it will either inform
them on how to do it better or they will keep in in mind until at some
point in the future it becomes important.
I challenge all readers here
Tell me a single feature that Flex needs more than a good designing and
prototyping tool. We've got native regular expressions, hell we can create
our own efficient compilers in actionscript now. Bitmap rendering, sound,
video, fancy datasets, nice layout and text frameworks.
If we could get a full html rendering engine. That's the only thing I can
think of that would be better than a good prototyping and design tool.
Whether it's based on design view or runtime rendering like the old flex
style explorer, which is more the direction I'd like to go. This should be
the primary focus of Apache flex 5.
Fancy internal rewirings should come after that.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 11:41 AM, Dimitri k. wrote:
>
>> From: "Jeffry Houser" <je...@dot-com-it.com>
>>
>>> I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>>>
>>> Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made
>>> sense when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and accessible
>>> to anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to fulfill that role,
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Maybe you haven't read my email which started this thread: This
>> discussion started because Deepa from Adobe said that it could be a
>> possibility, and said that if sufficient interest for it was shown on the
>> ML, it will help make it happen.
>>
>
> This is a high traffic mailing list; so I get frustrated with the
> occasional barrage of "me too/+1" non-vote-thread posts which add nothing
> to any discussion.
>
> I question how many of the people who want this are willing to put time
> and effort into maintaining it.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 2/22/2012 11:41 AM, Dimitri k. wrote:
> From: "Jeffry Houser" <je...@dot-com-it.com>
>> I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>>
>> Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made
>> sense when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and
>> accessible to anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to
>> fulfill that role, though.
>>
> Maybe you haven't read my email which started this thread: This
> discussion started because Deepa from Adobe said that it could be a
> possibility, and said that if sufficient interest for it was shown on
> the ML, it will help make it happen.
This is a high traffic mailing list; so I get frustrated with the
occasional barrage of "me too/+1" non-vote-thread posts which add
nothing to any discussion.
I question how many of the people who want this are willing to put
time and effort into maintaining it.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
From: "Jeffry Houser" <je...@dot-com-it.com>
> I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>
> Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made sense
> when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and accessible to
> anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to fulfill that role,
> though.
>
Maybe you haven't read my email which started this thread: This discussion
started because Deepa from Adobe said that it could be a possibility, and
said that if sufficient interest for it was shown on the ML, it will help
make it happen.
Second, we all know that a lot of people don't care about the Design View.
The question was more to see if there are still people that do care, and if
there are peope willing to contribute to it.
And with 30 positive responses in 6 hours, in a time when most Americans
were sleeping, I think it's safe to say there is interest from Apache Flex
devs, either for themselves, because they think it will benefit Flex, or
because they think we could create some cool stuff if we have access to the
DV source code.
Dimitri K.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by JP Bader <jp...@zavteq.com>.
My personal workflow wouldn't change if we had it, but I agree that it
is a useful piece of FB (especially for newer devs) and if we could
have it, then that would be terrific!
+1
JP
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
>
> Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made sense
> when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and accessible to
> anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to fulfill that role,
> though.
>
>
>
> On 2/22/2012 10:27 AM, Charles Monteiro wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> its essential for RAD , Design View is key to prototyping , getting things
>> up and running, source view is for tweaking and polishing, both are
>> essential in any modern RAD environment
>>
>> + 1000 really
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Iuri Pereira<iu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Iuri
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/2/22 Arturo Alvarado<ar...@centraldcom.com>
>>>
>>>>> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
>>>>
>>>> behaviours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>> Bruce Lane
>>>>
>>>> +1 Also
>>>>
>>>> Arturo Alvarado
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>
--
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp@zavteq.com
608.692.2468
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
I don't think any number of +1s will convince Adobe either way.
Honestly, I personally could care less about design view. It made
sense when Adobe wanted to make Flex the "new Visual Basic" and
accessible to anyone. I'm not sure if I would put effort to try to
fulfill that role, though.
On 2/22/2012 10:27 AM, Charles Monteiro wrote:
> +1
>
> its essential for RAD , Design View is key to prototyping , getting things
> up and running, source view is for tweaking and polishing, both are
> essential in any modern RAD environment
>
> + 1000 really
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Iuri Pereira<iu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> Iuri
>>
>>
>> 2012/2/22 Arturo Alvarado<ar...@centraldcom.com>
>>
>>>> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
>>>>> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
>>> behaviours.
>>>>> +1
>>>>> Bruce Lane
>>> +1 Also
>>>
>>> Arturo Alvarado
>>>
>>>
>
>
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@nycsmalltalk.org>.
+1
its essential for RAD , Design View is key to prototyping , getting things
up and running, source view is for tweaking and polishing, both are
essential in any modern RAD environment
+ 1000 really
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Iuri Pereira <iu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Iuri
>
>
> 2012/2/22 Arturo Alvarado <ar...@centraldcom.com>
>
> >
> > > Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
> > > > Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
> > behaviours.
> > > > +1
> > > > Bruce Lane
> >
> > +1 Also
> >
> > Arturo Alvarado
> >
> >
>
--
Charles A. Monteiro
www.monteirosfusion.com
sent from the road
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Iuri Pereira <iu...@gmail.com>.
+1
Iuri
2012/2/22 Arturo Alvarado <ar...@centraldcom.com>
>
> > Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
> > > Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
> behaviours.
> > > +1
> > > Bruce Lane
>
> +1 Also
>
> Arturo Alvarado
>
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Jack Freudenheim <ja...@sounder.com>.
+1
On 2/22/12 9:38 AM, Eugene Diana wrote:
> +1 on keeping DV alive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Batten [mailto:info@jasonbatten.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:18 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there
> is sufficient interest
>
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
>
>
> On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
>> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
> behaviours.
>> +1
>> Bruce Lane
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan<av...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot
>>> especially when I first started out since I had no idea what flex was
>>> all about. Its also brilliant for understanding the various
>>> containers, components etc from a learning perspective. definitely a +1
> from my side.
>>> Thanks
>>> Avinash Y
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it
>>>> would be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe
>>>> could consider to open-source it after the removal from next version
>>>> of Flash Builder.
>>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa
>>>> about that.
>>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't
>>>> believe we were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good
> idea.
>>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>>>
>>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>>>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>>>
>>>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I
>>>> rarely use it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a
>>>> good move for Apache Flex:
>>>>
>>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly
>>>> for people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and
>>>> its removal would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>>>
>>>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to
>>>> their Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based
>>>> application, where standard Flex components are use exclusively and
>>>> the Design View help avoiding "design re-compilation".
>>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold
>>>> Flex to some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the
>>>> ease they see in it to train their employees.
>>>>
>>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you
>>>> can test quickly your design with different resolutions and
>>>> orientations
>>>>
>>>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve
>>>> it in a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri K.
>>>>
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Eugene Diana <ed...@myersinfosys.com>.
+1 on keeping DV alive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Batten [mailto:info@jasonbatten.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:18 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there
is sufficient interest
Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
behaviours.
> +1
> Bruce Lane
>
> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan<av...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot
>> especially when I first started out since I had no idea what flex was
>> all about. Its also brilliant for understanding the various
>> containers, components etc from a learning perspective. definitely a +1
from my side.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Avinash Y
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it
>>> would be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe
>>> could consider to open-source it after the removal from next version
>>> of Flash Builder.
>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa
>>> about that.
>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't
>>> believe we were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good
idea.
>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>>
>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>>
>>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I
>>> rarely use it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a
>>> good move for Apache Flex:
>>>
>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly
>>> for people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and
>>> its removal would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>>
>>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to
>>> their Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based
>>> application, where standard Flex components are use exclusively and
>>> the Design View help avoiding "design re-compilation".
>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold
>>> Flex to some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the
>>> ease they see in it to train their employees.
>>>
>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you
>>> can test quickly your design with different resolutions and
>>> orientations
>>>
>>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve
>>> it in a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>>
>>> Dimitri K.
>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>.
If the DV source was donated I'd be willing to spend time on that. I have a
lot of ideas for improving the DV as I'm sure many of you do as well. As
much as I never liked DV, if we had the source I'd be interested in looking
to improve on it.
+1 for open sourcing DV! :)
--
Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC Member
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
+1 There is a lot of interest.
Also Flash Catalyst DV. The way it is able to create a skin component
classes from the design view is an important part of the learning process
for.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Jason Batten <in...@jasonbatten.com> wrote:
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
>
>
>
> On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
>
>> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
>> behaviours.
>> +1
>> Bruce Lane
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan<av...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot especially
>>> when
>>> I first started out since I had no idea what flex was all about. Its also
>>> brilliant for understanding the various containers, components etc from a
>>> learning perspective. definitely a +1 from my side.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Avinash Y
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
>>>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
>>>> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
>>>> Builder.
>>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>>>> that.
>>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe
>>>> we
>>>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>>>
>>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>>>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>>>
>>>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely
>>>> use
>>>> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
>>>> Apache Flex:
>>>>
>>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>>>> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its
>>>> removal
>>>> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>>>
>>>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
>>>> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application,
>>>> where
>>>> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>>>> avoiding "design re-compilation".
>>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex
>>>> to
>>>> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they
>>>> see
>>>> in it to train their employees.
>>>>
>>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
>>>> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>>>>
>>>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it
>>>> in
>>>> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri K.
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by saurabh jain <ja...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me too.
Design view is very helpful when you wish to see different states of your
component.
- Saurabh
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:05 PM, David Arno <da...@davidarno.org> wrote:
> +1 from me too. Even if we never make use of it, we'd be mad to decline
> such
> an offer.
>
> David.
>
>
--
Regards,
Saurabh
+91 80991-91166
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by David Arno <da...@davidarno.org>.
+1 from me too. Even if we never make use of it, we'd be mad to decline such
an offer.
David.
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by Glenn Williams <in...@tinylion.co.uk>.
Sorry the formatting of my post seems to have
gone. Hope it's still kind of readable
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Williams [mailto:info@tinylion.co.uk]
Sent: 22 February 2012 14:14
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing
the Design View if there is sufficient interest
I think the point the 'experienced user' dont use
DV is only true because DV was and is basically
broken.
I would have used it if:
When I clicked into DV it actually did display
what that part of my project looked like When I
clicked into DV I didnt just get a 'broken image'
and a list of reason why DV can't render my
project If I could select a component skin and
click DV and get a view of just that skin with its
default sizes and then change colours\gradients
sub component positions That I could click into DV
and then toggle through page or component states
and actually see that same think I would see if I
ran the app.
Basically if when I pressed DV in anything other
than a couple of screens test app that it actually
displayed the same thing that I would see when
running the app itself
IMO it's not that a DV isnt useful to even the
most experienced users is just that the
incarnation of DV thats in builder just doesnt
work.
I can think of 1000s of times that I would have
liked to quickly be able to view a page or
component or a skin and either modify it slightly
with design tools or just get a visual
confirmation that the code I'd just written was
doing what I expected it to regarding UI
I think the question of if a DV is useful
shouldnt be being based on the DV as it is now,
which is patently not useful, but on a DV that
actually worked.
I really think even the most experienced user
would like a single button press that would show
them an accurate rendering of the page of source
they were viewing
-----Original Message-----
From: piterchu@gmail.com
[mailto:piterchu@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter HO
Sent: 22 February 2012 10:28
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing
the Design View if there is sufficient interest
I add my vote to this thread. Even if most of us
"experienced flexers"
don't use it very often, design view is useful for
beginners and for mobile application layouting.
+1 for me
Peter
On 22 February 2012 11:17, Jason Batten
<in...@jasonbatten.com> wrote:
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and
getting started
>
>
>
> On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
>
>> Right, Design View is very important to learn
the Flex components
>> behaviours.
>> +1
>> Bruce Lane
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash
>>
Narayanan<avinashapr9@gmail.**com<avinashapr9@gmai
l.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I completely agree. I personally loved the
design view alot
>>> especially when I first started out since I
had no idea what flex
>>> was all about. Its also brilliant for
understanding the various
>>> containers, components etc from a learning
perspective. definitely a
>>> +1 from my side.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Avinash Y
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri
k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the
Design View, I thought it
>>> would
>>>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris
meeting if Adobe
>>>> could consider to open-source it after the
removal from next
>>>> version of Flash Builder.
>>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker
than me and ask Deepa
>>>> about that.
>>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it
because they didn't
>>>> believe we were interested, but she was
thinking it could be a good
>>>> idea.
>>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so
the community can easily
>>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should
not be such a drag.
>>>>
>>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it
happen would be to
>>>> show interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on
this list.
>>>>
>>>> I know that lots of people don't care about
the Design View (I
>>>> rarely use it myself), but here are 4 reasons
I think it could be a
>>>> good move for Apache Flex:
>>>>
>>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML
paradigm, particularly
>>>> for people coming for a Flash Pro background
(timeline+stage), and
>>>> its removal would increase the barrier of
entry to Flex.
>>>>
>>>> - I heard several times about devs for which
the DV is central to
>>>> their Flex workflow. It's often the case for
heavy form-based
>>>> application, where standard Flex components
are use exclusively and
>>>> the Design View help avoiding "design
re-compilation".
>>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise
evangelist that he sold
>>>> Flex to some big companies mainly because of
the Design View and
>>>> the ease they see in it to train their
employees.
>>>>
>>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing
Mobile apps, because you
>>>> can test quickly your design with different
resolutions and
>>>> orientations
>>>>
>>>> - If we have access to the Design View code,
maybe we could improve
>>>> it in a way that even current Design View
haters would use it ;)
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri K.
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by almansour belleh blanco <za...@gmail.com>.
2012/2/22 Glenn Williams <in...@tinylion.co.uk>:
> I think the point the 'experienced user' don’t use
> DV is only true because DV was and is basically
> broken.
That's why open sourcing it would be interesting. The community can
then work on fixing the broken parts.
RE: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by Glenn Williams <in...@tinylion.co.uk>.
I think the point the 'experienced user' dont use
DV is only true because DV was and is basically
broken.
I would have used it if:
When I clicked into DV it actually did display
what that part of my project looked like
When I clicked into DV I didnt just get a 'broken
image' and a list of reason why DV can't render my
project
If I could select a component skin and click DV
and get a view of just that skin with its default
sizes and then change colours\gradients sub
component positions
That I could click into DV and then toggle through
page or component states and actually see that
same think I would see if I ran the app.
Basically if when I pressed DV in anything other
than a couple of screens test app that it actually
displayed the same thing that I would see when
running the app itself
IMO it's not that a DV isnt useful to even the
most experienced users is just that the
incarnation of DV thats in builder just doesnt
work.
I can think of 1000s of times that I would have
liked to quickly be able to view a page or
component or a skin and either modify it slightly
with design tools or just get a visual
confirmation that the code I'd just written was
doing what I expected it to regarding UI
I think the question of if a DV is useful
shouldnt be being based on the DV as it is now,
which is patently not useful, but on a DV that
actually worked.
I really think even the most experienced user
would like a single button press that would show
them an accurate rendering of the page of source
they were viewing
-----Original Message-----
From: piterchu@gmail.com
[mailto:piterchu@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter HO
Sent: 22 February 2012 10:28
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing
the Design View if there is sufficient interest
I add my vote to this thread. Even if most of us
"experienced flexers"
don't use it very often, design view is useful for
beginners and for mobile application layouting.
+1 for me
Peter
On 22 February 2012 11:17, Jason Batten
<in...@jasonbatten.com> wrote:
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and
getting started
>
>
>
> On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
>
>> Right, Design View is very important to learn
the Flex components
>> behaviours.
>> +1
>> Bruce Lane
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash
>>
Narayanan<avinashapr9@gmail.**com<avinashapr9@gmai
l.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I completely agree. I personally loved the
design view alot
>>> especially when I first started out since I
had no idea what flex
>>> was all about. Its also brilliant for
understanding the various
>>> containers, components etc from a learning
perspective. definitely a
>>> +1 from my side.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Avinash Y
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri
k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the
Design View, I thought it
>>> would
>>>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris
meeting if Adobe
>>>> could consider to open-source it after the
removal from next
>>>> version of Flash Builder.
>>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker
than me and ask Deepa
>>>> about that.
>>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it
because they didn't
>>>> believe we were interested, but she was
thinking it could be a good
>>>> idea.
>>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so
the community can easily
>>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should
not be such a drag.
>>>>
>>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it
happen would be to
>>>> show interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on
this list.
>>>>
>>>> I know that lots of people don't care about
the Design View (I
>>>> rarely use it myself), but here are 4 reasons
I think it could be a
>>>> good move for Apache Flex:
>>>>
>>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML
paradigm, particularly
>>>> for people coming for a Flash Pro background
(timeline+stage), and
>>>> its removal would increase the barrier of
entry to Flex.
>>>>
>>>> - I heard several times about devs for which
the DV is central to
>>>> their Flex workflow. It's often the case for
heavy form-based
>>>> application, where standard Flex components
are use exclusively and
>>>> the Design View help avoiding "design
re-compilation".
>>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise
evangelist that he sold
>>>> Flex to some big companies mainly because of
the Design View and
>>>> the ease they see in it to train their
employees.
>>>>
>>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing
Mobile apps, because you
>>>> can test quickly your design with different
resolutions and
>>>> orientations
>>>>
>>>> - If we have access to the Design View code,
maybe we could improve
>>>> it in a way that even current Design View
haters would use it ;)
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri K.
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Peter HO <pe...@piterchu.info>.
I add my vote to this thread. Even if most of us "experienced flexers"
don't use it very often, design view is useful for beginners and for mobile
application layouting.
+1 for me
Peter
On 22 February 2012 11:17, Jason Batten <in...@jasonbatten.com> wrote:
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
>
>
>
> On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
>
>> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components
>> behaviours.
>> +1
>> Bruce Lane
>>
>> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan<av...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot especially
>>> when
>>> I first started out since I had no idea what flex was all about. Its also
>>> brilliant for understanding the various containers, components etc from a
>>> learning perspective. definitely a +1 from my side.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Avinash Y
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
>>>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
>>>> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
>>>> Builder.
>>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>>>> that.
>>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe
>>>> we
>>>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>>>
>>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>>>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>>>
>>>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely
>>>> use
>>>> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
>>>> Apache Flex:
>>>>
>>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>>>> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its
>>>> removal
>>>> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>>>
>>>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
>>>> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application,
>>>> where
>>>> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>>>> avoiding "design re-compilation".
>>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex
>>>> to
>>>> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they
>>>> see
>>>> in it to train their employees.
>>>>
>>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
>>>> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>>>>
>>>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it
>>>> in
>>>> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>>>
>>>> Dimitri K.
>>>>
>>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Arturo Alvarado <ar...@centraldcom.com>.
> Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
> > Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components behaviours.
> > +1
> > Bruce Lane
+1 Also
Arturo Alvarado
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Jason Batten <in...@jasonbatten.com>.
Another +1, it's good for quick wireframes and getting started
On 22/02/2012 6:14 PM, Bruce Lane wrote:
> Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components behaviours.
> +1
> Bruce Lane
>
> On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan<av...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot especially when
>> I first started out since I had no idea what flex was all about. Its also
>> brilliant for understanding the various containers, components etc from a
>> learning perspective. definitely a +1 from my side.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Avinash Y
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k.<ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
>>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
>>> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
>>> Builder.
>>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>>> that.
>>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
>>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>>
>>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>>
>>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
>>> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
>>> Apache Flex:
>>>
>>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>>> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
>>> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>>
>>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
>>> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
>>> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>>> avoiding "design re-compilation".
>>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
>>> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
>>> in it to train their employees.
>>>
>>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
>>> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>>>
>>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
>>> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>>
>>> Dimitri K.
>>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Bruce Lane <br...@gmail.com>.
Right, Design View is very important to learn the Flex components behaviours.
+1
Bruce Lane
On 22 February 2012 11:11, Avinash Narayanan <av...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot especially when
> I first started out since I had no idea what flex was all about. Its also
> brilliant for understanding the various containers, components etc from a
> learning perspective. definitely a +1 from my side.
>
> Thanks
> Avinash Y
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>
>> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
>> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
>> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
>> Builder.
>> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>> that.
>> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
>> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>>
>> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>>
>> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
>> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
>> Apache Flex:
>>
>> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
>> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>>
>> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
>> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
>> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>> avoiding "design re-compilation".
>> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
>> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
>> in it to train their employees.
>>
>> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
>> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>>
>> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
>> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>>
>> Dimitri K.
>>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Avinash Narayanan <av...@gmail.com>.
I completely agree. I personally loved the design view alot especially when
I first started out since I had no idea what flex was all about. Its also
brilliant for understanding the various containers, components etc from a
learning perspective. definitely a +1 from my side.
Thanks
Avinash Y
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
> Builder.
> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
> that.
> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
> Apache Flex:
>
> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>
> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
> avoiding "design re-compilation".
> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
> in it to train their employees.
>
> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>
> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>
> Dimitri K.
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Abdul Sattar <sa...@gmail.com>.
+1 for Design View
Abdul Sattar
(Director IT & Operations)
0321-6433805
www.powersoft.com.pk
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Art Grater <ar...@gmail.com>.
+1
Design View is crucial to my work flow.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:03 AM, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
> Builder.
> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
> that.
> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
> Apache Flex:
>
> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>
> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
> avoiding "design re-compilation".
> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
> in it to train their employees.
>
> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>
> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>
> Dimitri K.
>
--
Art Grater
P.O. Box 1747
Pebble Beach, CA 93953
831-915-7788
www.DissoCase.com
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
+1 from my side ...
A quick reminder of my former post [1] ... I have created a petition
regarding
this issue for the "Design View" in Flash Builder and Flash Catalyst [2].
Discontinuing "Design View" in Flash Builder and Flash Catalyst means:
• This is bad news for all people who prefer to design and think visually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_learning
• This is bad news for all Flex developers which have to navigate and code
large-scale Flex apps.
• This is bad news for all Flex designers that need to interact with Flex
developers.
• This is bad news for all Flex beginners because it adds another barrier
while learning Flex development … and this is bad again because we need
more highly skilled Flex developers around.
-- Sebastian
[1]
http://markmail.org/search/?q=+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+Petition%3A+Flash+Catalyst+must+survive+++++#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev%20Petition%3A%20Flash%20Catalyst%20must%20survive%20%20%20%20%20+page:1+mid:h5ecjc66tn7lgczz+state:results
[2]
http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-flash-catalyst-must-survive
http://masuland.wordpress.com/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Pierangelo Mancusi <
pierangelo.mancusi@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 of course
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno 22 febbraio 2012 11:03, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> ha scritto:
>
> > After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
> > be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
> > consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
> > Builder.
> > Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
> > that.
> > She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe
> we
> > were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> > In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> > contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
> >
> > She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> > interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
> >
> > I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
> > it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
> > Apache Flex:
> >
> > - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
> > people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its
> removal
> > would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
> >
> > - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
> > Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application,
> where
> > standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
> > avoiding "design re-compilation".
> > In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex
> to
> > some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they
> see
> > in it to train their employees.
> >
> > - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
> > test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
> >
> > - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
> > a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
> >
> > Dimitri K.
> >
>
--
Best regards,
Sebastian Mohr
Adobe Flex Developer,
Interaction Designer & Software Architect
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
Mobile Belgium:
+32 (0) 48 887 55 22
Mobile Germany:
+49 (0) 170 722 24 87
Skype name:
masuland
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Pierangelo Mancusi <pi...@gmail.com>.
+1 of course
Il giorno 22 febbraio 2012 11:03, Dimitri k. <ko...@noos.fr> ha scritto:
> After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
> be a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
> consider to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash
> Builder.
> Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
> that.
> She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
> were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
> In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
> contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
> She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
> interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
> I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
> it myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
> Apache Flex:
>
> - DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
> people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
> would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>
> - I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
> Flex workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
> standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
> avoiding "design re-compilation".
> In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
> some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
> in it to train their employees.
>
> - DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
> test quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>
> - If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
> a way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>
> Dimitri K.
>
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by James Ong <ya...@gmail.com>.
I love to see DV in a total new way like going full-screen, break out of
the IDE environment.
The components will display as 3D Max Studio toolbar.
DV should be transforming into an interactive workspace instead or I will
find myself restricted to Eclipse
which is slow, sluggy and boring.
Re: Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is
sufficient interest
Posted by Humberto Sanchez II <hs...@yahoo.com>.
+1 here. I would be willing to spend some time on the DV code.
Humberto
_________________________________________________
On 2/22/12 4:03 AM, "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr> wrote:
>After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would
>be
>a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could
>consider
>to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash Builder.
>Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
>that.
>She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe
>we
>were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
>In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
>contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
>
>She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
>interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
>
>I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use
>it
>myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for
>Apache
>Flex:
>
>- DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
>people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its
>removal
>would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
>
>- I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their
>Flex
>workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
>standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
>avoiding "design re-compilation".
>In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex
>to
>some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they
>see
>in it to train their employees.
>
>- DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can
>test
>quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
>
>- If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in
>a
>way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
>
>Dimitri K.
>
Adobe might think of open-sourcing the Design View if there is sufficient interest
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
After the discussion on the ML about the Design View, I thought it would be
a good idea to ask Deepa at the Flex Paris meeting if Adobe could consider
to open-source it after the removal from next version of Flash Builder.
Frédéric Thomas, also on the ML, was quicker than me and ask Deepa about
that.
She said that Adobe hasn't thought about it because they didn't believe we
were interested, but she was thinking it could be a good idea.
In fact, the Design View is a Flex app, so the community can easily
contribute to it, and legal scrubbing should not be such a drag.
She concluded that the best thing to make it happen would be to show
interrest for the open-sourcing of DV on this list.
I know that lots of people don't care about the Design View (I rarely use it
myself), but here are 4 reasons I think it could be a good move for Apache
Flex:
- DV is a great tool to understand the MXML paradigm, particularly for
people coming for a Flash Pro background (timeline+stage), and its removal
would increase the barrier of entry to Flex.
- I heard several times about devs for which the DV is central to their Flex
workflow. It's often the case for heavy form-based application, where
standard Flex components are use exclusively and the Design View help
avoiding "design re-compilation".
In fact, I was told by an Adobe enterprise evangelist that he sold Flex to
some big companies mainly because of the Design View and the ease they see
in it to train their employees.
- DV can be really helpful when designing Mobile apps, because you can test
quickly your design with different resolutions and orientations
- If we have access to the Design View code, maybe we could improve it in a
way that even current Design View haters would use it ;)
Dimitri K.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by "Dimitri k." <ko...@noos.fr>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dimitri k."
> At the Paris Flex meeting, I spoke with Thibault Imbert, who is Senior
> Runtimes product manager , about the fact that the Apache Flex project
> would
> really benefit from having some kind of early access to the new Falcon
> compiler, at least to undestand it and to have to opportunity to think
> about what
> we will have to do after the donation for the MXML and HTML/JS part, and
> to help the project momentum by not waiting to 2013 to start working on
> it.
> Thibault was really interested about this feedback, and quite open to
> discuss what could possibly be done before the full donation in order to
> help us move the projects forward.
To follow up, I did speak to Thibault again yesterday at the Flash Paris
meeting.
He said that he understand our needs and he will see what can possibly be
done before the donation to help us prepare the next steps (MXML and HTML/JS
compilation).
As Alex told us, he is of course concerned about the implication in term of
delay, because Falcon is not only on a tight schedule, but also a
cornerstone of lots of the things Adobe is preparing for Flash, but he said
that he will contact the person in charge of Adobe open-source effort to see
what can be done without compromising Adobe schedule, like a close
prerelease program for example.
One thing that I really try to convey is the fact that every little step
could help the Apache Flex project momentum, that we understand Adobe
priorities around deadlines but we try to avoid an all or nothing situation.
So we have to wait to hear more about this, but at least things are going in
the right direction I think.
Dimitri K.
Re: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 2/22/12 1:53 AM, "David Arno" <da...@davidarno.org> wrote:
> However, they could still provide
> access to it as you describe before then.
I think there is a difference between opening up the source under an Adobe
license and an Apache license. The Flex code we just got into Apache this
week was available on the Adobe site for months, but it took us a month and
a half to get this far. I would expect the same for Falcon. But we'll see.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
RE: Early access to Falcon compiler
Posted by David Arno <da...@davidarno.org>.
That sounds really promising Dimitri. The French guys to the rescue! :)
Having thought about it, I can see why Adobe do not want to donate the
compiler to Apache until it's ready. However, they could still provide
access to it as you describe before then. The simplest way seems to make use
of their existing infrastructure for such things. They could run an
open-invite pre-release programme like they do with the runtime and have
done with Flash Builder and the SDK in the past. What I think would be
really useful to us is if all four of your options were provided via such a
pre-release programme. Adobe could push regular update snapshots out that
let us experiment with the compiler, as well as letting as look at the code,
the APIs and any existing documentation as it develops. Also we would then
have a forum of feedback to Adobe.
As long as no non-disclosure agreement got in the way, we could drop plans
for an alternative compiler and start work on the MXML and JS stuff within
Falcon, whilst Adobe are still developing the core compiler. This would
better suite everyone I think.
So please do your best to persuade Thibault of this plan. Oh and whilst
talking to him, you might want to mention another thing. Months ago, he
promised me he'd sort out the fact that Adobe haven't published up to date
versions of the AVM2 and SWF specification documents. As mentioned in the
"Can Adobe kill Apache Flex" thread, this doesn't appear to have happened...
Thanks,
David.