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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by "Robert H. Tran" <rh...@hotmail.com> on 2003/12/03 23:09:50 UTC
Disadvantages of Struts?
I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more in
the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
appreciated.
- Robert.
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Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by "Robert H. Tran" <rh...@hotmail.com>.
Thanks, Ted. I agree that Struts is the best option available today. Like
you said, there are areas that Struts can, and probably should, improve. I
am delighted to hear that some of them will be addressed in 2.0.
- Robert.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Husted" <hu...@apache.org>
To: <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
> Yes, we should be passing an API context object instead of tucking
> things away here and there in the various contexts. We started work on
> one during the 1.1 march, but it was sidetracked by the module
> initiative. At this point, it will probably be slated for Stuts 2.0.
>
> The other questions speak to whether you want to take a declarative
> approach to writing a web application. If you are writing a small
> application, the strategy of using XML configurations to deploy object
> graphs can be more trouble than it's worth. But if you are writing a
> larger application, most developers believe it is much better than the
> alternatives. (Been there, done that.) Of course, your mileage may vary.
>
> There are several other web application frameworks available, most of
> which are tracked by the wafer project.
>
> Choosing a framework is like choosing shoes. You really need to try them
> on for yourself to be sure.
>
> Like most software products, Struts is far from perfect. But, like Java
> itself, for complex enterprise applications, many developers find it's
> the best alternative available today. Neither Struts nor Java is the
> best choice for all applications and all teams, but most people do find
> that it is a good choice for larger applications that need to be
> maintained and improved over time.
>
> If there is a disadvantage to using Struts, it's that the underlying
> design is so darn useful that people try to use it as an application
> framework rather than a WEB application framework. Many teams invest
> *way* too much business logic in ActionForms and Actions. Why? Because
> most large application do need to utilize the Context and Command
> patterns. But because they don't have a distinct business framework,
> people usurp the Struts classes.
>
> The Chain of Responsibility package in the Commons Sandbox is a first
> step toward creating a business layer framework. Webwork is doing
> something similiar with their xwork package.
>
> -Ted.
>
> Robert H. Tran wrote:
> > I am not sure that is true. Struts seems to lack of an API. IMO, there
are
> > more required configurations than necessary. Take Action for example, to
> > write an Action, one has to paddle back and forth between the code and
the
> > configuration. It is like an executable having to configure each of its
> > dlls. The visibility of the mappings is nice to have but the mappings
can
> > be generated after the fact as in a debugging view. When the application
is
> > finished, configurations become static. But since configurations are
> > required, they will be like loose ends of the application. Another
issue:
> > how can one componentize his code and deploy it in a self-contained
plug-in,
> > as with Eclipse? Please forgive my novice.
> >
> > - Robert.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Hightower" <rh...@triveratech.com>
> > To: "'Struts Developers List'" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:24 PM
> > Subject: RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
> >
> >
> >
> >>Don't be silly. Struts is perfect.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:10 PM
> >>To: Struts Developers List
> >>Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
> >>
> >>I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not
in
> >>terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more
> >
> > in
> >
> >>the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
> >>appreciated.
> >>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Yes, we should be passing an API context object instead of tucking
things away here and there in the various contexts. We started work on
one during the 1.1 march, but it was sidetracked by the module
initiative. At this point, it will probably be slated for Stuts 2.0.
The other questions speak to whether you want to take a declarative
approach to writing a web application. If you are writing a small
application, the strategy of using XML configurations to deploy object
graphs can be more trouble than it's worth. But if you are writing a
larger application, most developers believe it is much better than the
alternatives. (Been there, done that.) Of course, your mileage may vary.
There are several other web application frameworks available, most of
which are tracked by the wafer project.
Choosing a framework is like choosing shoes. You really need to try them
on for yourself to be sure.
Like most software products, Struts is far from perfect. But, like Java
itself, for complex enterprise applications, many developers find it's
the best alternative available today. Neither Struts nor Java is the
best choice for all applications and all teams, but most people do find
that it is a good choice for larger applications that need to be
maintained and improved over time.
If there is a disadvantage to using Struts, it's that the underlying
design is so darn useful that people try to use it as an application
framework rather than a WEB application framework. Many teams invest
*way* too much business logic in ActionForms and Actions. Why? Because
most large application do need to utilize the Context and Command
patterns. But because they don't have a distinct business framework,
people usurp the Struts classes.
The Chain of Responsibility package in the Commons Sandbox is a first
step toward creating a business layer framework. Webwork is doing
something similiar with their xwork package.
-Ted.
Robert H. Tran wrote:
> I am not sure that is true. Struts seems to lack of an API. IMO, there are
> more required configurations than necessary. Take Action for example, to
> write an Action, one has to paddle back and forth between the code and the
> configuration. It is like an executable having to configure each of its
> dlls. The visibility of the mappings is nice to have but the mappings can
> be generated after the fact as in a debugging view. When the application is
> finished, configurations become static. But since configurations are
> required, they will be like loose ends of the application. Another issue:
> how can one componentize his code and deploy it in a self-contained plug-in,
> as with Eclipse? Please forgive my novice.
>
> - Robert.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Hightower" <rh...@triveratech.com>
> To: "'Struts Developers List'" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:24 PM
> Subject: RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
>
>
>
>>Don't be silly. Struts is perfect.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:10 PM
>>To: Struts Developers List
>>Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
>>
>>I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
>>terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more
>
> in
>
>>the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
>>appreciated.
>>
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RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by Rick Hightower <rh...@triveratech.com>.
I don't want to clog up the dev list with a philosophical debate (however
well meaning on Robert's part); no offense intended. I will have to try
harder to avoid such bait in the future. I was being facetious (Playfully
jocular; humorous: facetious remarks), when I said Struts is perfect.
I use Struts and find it useful for projects that I have worked on. It is
not perfect, nor have I found a framework that was perfect. However, I do
not wish to defend it (time is money). Next time you are in Tucson AZ, we
can grab a beer (or coffee) and discuss the finer points at length.
I am going to go with the other well thought out responses and say this
question belongs on the user list.
I will not respond to this thread any longer. My apologies for continuing
this thread on the dev list.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:29 PM
To: Struts Developers List
Subject: Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
I am not sure that is true. Struts seems to lack of an API. IMO, there are
more required configurations than necessary. Take Action for example, to
write an Action, one has to paddle back and forth between the code and the
configuration. It is like an executable having to configure each of its
dlls. The visibility of the mappings is nice to have but the mappings can
be generated after the fact as in a debugging view. When the application is
finished, configurations become static. But since configurations are
required, they will be like loose ends of the application. Another issue:
how can one componentize his code and deploy it in a self-contained plug-in,
as with Eclipse? Please forgive my novice.
- Robert.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Hightower" <rh...@triveratech.com>
To: "'Struts Developers List'" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
> Don't be silly. Struts is perfect.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:10 PM
> To: Struts Developers List
> Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
>
> I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
> terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more
in
> the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
> appreciated.
>
> - Robert.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by "Robert H. Tran" <rh...@hotmail.com>.
I am not sure that is true. Struts seems to lack of an API. IMO, there are
more required configurations than necessary. Take Action for example, to
write an Action, one has to paddle back and forth between the code and the
configuration. It is like an executable having to configure each of its
dlls. The visibility of the mappings is nice to have but the mappings can
be generated after the fact as in a debugging view. When the application is
finished, configurations become static. But since configurations are
required, they will be like loose ends of the application. Another issue:
how can one componentize his code and deploy it in a self-contained plug-in,
as with Eclipse? Please forgive my novice.
- Robert.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Hightower" <rh...@triveratech.com>
To: "'Struts Developers List'" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
> Don't be silly. Struts is perfect.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:10 PM
> To: Struts Developers List
> Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
>
> I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
> terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more
in
> the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
> appreciated.
>
> - Robert.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
Robert H. Tran wrote:
> I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
> terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more in
> the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
> appreciated.
I battled initially to get my head around struts, as it was not clear
enough to me exactly what the software did, and exactly what the
software didn't do (which in turn answered the question "what do _I_
have to code to get something meaningful to work").
The second hassle I've had is with exceptions being caught and thrown
away, especially in the DynaBean stuff - as a result I have an unpacked
version of the struts code in my development tree, which is easy to
access and amend in a debugger.
Struts is a bit like a swiss army knife, it does many diverse and very
useful things as part of the greater goal: building a web app. It's just
not all that clear as to exactly what it does sometimes. On the whole
though, it's really useful - I have just had the opportunity to build a
system from scratch (as opposed to retrofit struts to a previous
disas^H^H^H^H^Hproject, yuck), and it has on the whole been an enormous
timesaver, and really useful.
Regards,
Graham
--
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RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by Rick Hightower <rh...@triveratech.com>.
Don't be silly. Struts is perfect.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:10 PM
To: Struts Developers List
Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback. I mean not in
terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it necessarily, but more in
the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any advice is very
appreciated.
- Robert.
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RE: Disadvantages of Struts?
Posted by Steve Raeburn <sr...@apache.org>.
This question should really be addressed to the struts-user list.
Thanks
Steve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert H. Tran [mailto:rhtran2000@hotmail.com]
> Sent: December 3, 2003 2:10 PM
> To: Struts Developers List
> Subject: Disadvantages of Struts?
>
>
> I just wonder if Struts comes with any significant drawback.
> I mean not in
> terms of when to use Struts and when not to use it
> necessarily, but more in
> the line of anyone's wishes that it had been better. Any
> advice is very
> appreciated.
>
> - Robert.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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