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Posted to users@maven.apache.org by Christian Cabanero <ch...@gmail.com> on 2006/02/17 06:50:03 UTC
Help with getting up and running
First off I gotta say ramping up with Maven 2 has been very hard compared to
Maven 1. I was a big fan of Maven 1 and was using it successfully and it
was doing what I wanted but now with Maven 2 it's just so much more darn
complex and customizable it makes it harder to even know where to start. I
like the high level design better but it's not user friendly. It'd be nice
if there was a cook book that went over more than just the basics of
compiling and running tests and checking dependencies.
Can someone give me pointers on the following:
* How do I make it so that when I run tests the tests results also show up
as part of the site generation? It'd be nice if I could see a test summary
and also navigate from the site the tests that failed.
* How to get continuous integration running with Maven2. Is there a guide
somewhere?
* I tried running a clover:report task and it downloaded all the proper jars
but it's giving me an error saying that the license has expired. The
documentation said that a 30-day eval license was included but I didn't see
it. I do have a valid license file however. How do I point Maven to use
the valid clover.license file? I tried putting the license file in the same
dir as the jar file as is what you normally do with clover but that didn't
work.
* How do I make it so that certain goals are always part of the default set
and always run? I just want to type "mvn" and have it execute these goals.
Thanks,
Christian
<rant>
Is Maven 2 still in a "beta" state? If not it's kind of suprising how
tricky it is to really get up and running. If one of the goals is to
replace Ant and get widespread adoption it's got to be easy for people to
actually use the thing and get functionality that goes beyond compiling,
testing and dependency checking I would think. Right now there seem to be
too many gotchas and a lot of complexity in the sake of configurability but
that's killing ease of use IMHO.
In the Maven 1 days I definitely was a big believer but now I'm not so
sure. I have the formidable task of trying to get my team to adopt Maven 2
(I work at the largest online retailer) and all I see the team members
saying is "Man, this is way too complex, Ant is just easy to use, why don't
we just use that?"
</rant>
Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Stephen Duncan <st...@gmail.com>.
On 2/17/06, Dion Gillard <di...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/06, Stephen Duncan <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's been discussed many times on the list but: 1) Maven 2 is NOT in a
> > beta state; 2) Some of the plugins still are in beta state, and these
> > are generally where the frustration comes from.
>
> Stephen,
>
> have a look at what you've written above.
>
> Most *users* of Maven don't separate the plugins which provide a huge
> amount of the functionality they use from 'Maven'. This is true of M1
> as well.
>
> Beta plugins == Beta experience.
> Beta documentation == Beta experience.
> Quality mailing list help == Happy user.
>
> Things always improve over time. M2 is a big disconnect from M1 and
> that also causes frustration. In the short term, the best thing we can
> do is improve the products, the documentation and help people, and
> listen to their rants while reading between the lines.
>
> My 2c.
I totally agree. I was trying to get out the summary of the frequent
discussions of "is Maven 2 production ready" before it turned into
another one of those conversations. I apologize if my brevity made it
sound harsh or unfair.
--
Stephen Duncan Jr
www.stephenduncanjr.com
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Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Christian Cabanero <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the replies to my "rant". Sorry about the bad term being used,
but my rant was really meant to be honest feedback from a new user trying to
decide whether to adopt M2. And that's a new user who's already adopted M1
for past projects and is trying to convince a team of developers.
You also have to realize that "mainstream" users who just want to use M2
frankly aren't going to go through the whole process of going through JIRA
trying to search for an issue and then make sure they're not entering a
duplicate then enter their own issue and then hope someone works on it.
Most brand new users won't be very inclined (yet) to participate in the
community because in order to be inclined to participate in the community
they want to see that the product (in this case M2) does what they want it
to do, and does it easily. If it doesn't seem to do what they expect it to
they're not going to go file an issue. They're just going to move on. It's
like launching a new online store with a lot of issues and saying "just make
sure that the customer service email is prominently displayed everywhere so
that if something wrong happens as they try to use the site they can send us
an email."
The point that people forget how long they spent learning Ant is a good
point. However, that's exactly the point. They've forgotten. I know I've
forgotten. At this point, most people *have* learned ant and think of it as
easy now in that they know how to use it really well. So that's where
they're coming from I think. They're looking for something that saves the
time and is easier to use than they're current level of experience with
Ant. The good thing is that most people also know how much of a pain Ant is
when you have to keep maintaining all those duplicate build scripts.
I think Brett's idea to separate out alpha/beta plug-ins is a really good
one. It's definitely hard to discern which is which.
I think what'll help most new comers is a simple cook book that gets people
started. But one that shows you how to use the core plug-ins so that
someone can easily see that this is way better than Ant. Something like "in
5 minutes you'll be running tests, generating test coverage reports,
generating your javadoc, checking dependencies, running a continuous
integration server, checking coding guidelines all hooked into one
auto-generated site. John Smart's
article<http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-2005/jw-1205-maven-p3.html>was
a great start but didn't go into some of the cooler core plug-ins.
I'm
hoping he'll do a follow-up article going into some of the core plug-ins.
If not, heck, after I hopefully figure all that stuff out I'll write the
guide!
Believe me, I'm coming from a place where I really want to see M2 succeed.
I do see the long term benefits and am sick of Ant.
Anyways, could someone point me in the direction of which plug-in to use to
do continuous integration?
Thanks,
Christian
On 2/17/06, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While I generally agree with your response, a couple of points:
>
> On 2/17/06, Dion Gillard <di...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Beta plugins == Beta experience.
>
> I've been planning to, and am even more inclined, to stop publishing
> (start pulling out?) alpha and beta releases from the central
> repository. They should be in a separate repository you have to ask
> for.
>
> There will always be plugins in alpha and beta. The critical ones (all
> the core ones related to site generation) are actually reasonably
> stable in their current beta state and will get final releases this or
> next month.
>
> > Beta documentation == Beta experience.
>
> True, but I'd also wish those complaining about it would point at the
> hole (and yes, there are many), file a JIRA issue, and says "fix this
> one". We're working through them. It's incredibly hard to know what's
> missing on the inside looking out.
>
> > Quality mailing list help == Happy user.
>
> And I think we have that. Stephen is one of the many people that
> regularly helps others here, and is to be commended for it.
>
> > Things always improve over time. M2 is a big disconnect from M1 and
> > that also causes frustration. In the short term, the best thing we can
> > do is improve the products, the documentation and help people,
>
> +1
>
> > listen to their rants while reading between the lines.
>
> I'd really rather not. Ranting gets you nowhere, and is likely to get
> a response sharing your own tone.
>
> It's not like a bunch of people are sitting here twiddling their
> thumbs doing nothing, and jumping up when someone complains. Everyone
> is working on stuff, and everyone has different priorities. Let your
> problems be known, file a bug, vote for it, prod if it doesn't get
> responded to, and if you are really desparate - patch it :) But let's
> keep it friendly.
>
> >
> > My 2c.
>
> Hey, we don't have that currency here anymore! :)
>
> - Brett
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Dion Gillard <di...@gmail.com>.
On 2/17/06, Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My 2c.
>
> Hey, we don't have that currency here anymore! :)
>
> - Brett
Dang! Rounded down to 0c!!!
--
http://www.multitask.com.au/people/dion/
Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is
afraid of the dark, but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris
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Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
While I generally agree with your response, a couple of points:
On 2/17/06, Dion Gillard <di...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Beta plugins == Beta experience.
I've been planning to, and am even more inclined, to stop publishing
(start pulling out?) alpha and beta releases from the central
repository. They should be in a separate repository you have to ask
for.
There will always be plugins in alpha and beta. The critical ones (all
the core ones related to site generation) are actually reasonably
stable in their current beta state and will get final releases this or
next month.
> Beta documentation == Beta experience.
True, but I'd also wish those complaining about it would point at the
hole (and yes, there are many), file a JIRA issue, and says "fix this
one". We're working through them. It's incredibly hard to know what's
missing on the inside looking out.
> Quality mailing list help == Happy user.
And I think we have that. Stephen is one of the many people that
regularly helps others here, and is to be commended for it.
> Things always improve over time. M2 is a big disconnect from M1 and
> that also causes frustration. In the short term, the best thing we can
> do is improve the products, the documentation and help people,
+1
> listen to their rants while reading between the lines.
I'd really rather not. Ranting gets you nowhere, and is likely to get
a response sharing your own tone.
It's not like a bunch of people are sitting here twiddling their
thumbs doing nothing, and jumping up when someone complains. Everyone
is working on stuff, and everyone has different priorities. Let your
problems be known, file a bug, vote for it, prod if it doesn't get
responded to, and if you are really desparate - patch it :) But let's
keep it friendly.
>
> My 2c.
Hey, we don't have that currency here anymore! :)
- Brett
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Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Dion Gillard <di...@gmail.com>.
On 2/17/06, Stephen Duncan <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's been discussed many times on the list but: 1) Maven 2 is NOT in a
> beta state; 2) Some of the plugins still are in beta state, and these
> are generally where the frustration comes from.
Stephen,
have a look at what you've written above.
Most *users* of Maven don't separate the plugins which provide a huge
amount of the functionality they use from 'Maven'. This is true of M1
as well.
Beta plugins == Beta experience.
Beta documentation == Beta experience.
Quality mailing list help == Happy user.
Things always improve over time. M2 is a big disconnect from M1 and
that also causes frustration. In the short term, the best thing we can
do is improve the products, the documentation and help people, and
listen to their rants while reading between the lines.
My 2c.
--
http://www.multitask.com.au/people/dion/
Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is
afraid of the dark, but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Help with getting up and running
Posted by Stephen Duncan <st...@gmail.com>.
It's been discussed many times on the list but: 1) Maven 2 is NOT in a
beta state; 2) Some of the plugins still are in beta state, and these
are generally where the frustration comes from.
I don't use Clover, but generally configuration is provided in
<build><plugins><plugin><configuration> section of your POM. Also,
the clover plugin documentation, in the clover:check goal lists
"licenseFile" as an optional parameter:
http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-clover-plugin/check-mojo.html
So I think you'd do it like this:
<plugin>
<groupId>org.apache.maven.plugins</groupId>
<artifactId>maven-clover-plugin</artifactId>
<configuration>
<licenseFile>path/to/license-file</licenseFile>
</configuration>
</plugin>
To have goals run, you specify <executions> within a plugins
configuration. The documention is here:
http://maven.apache.org/guides/introduction/introduction-to-the-lifecycle.html
under the "Plugins" section.
I think people forget how much time they spent learning Ant. I don't
think Maven 2's learning curve is any worse. And of course, long run,
Maven 2 buid's are far more maintainable and extendable, so even if
does take a little while longer to learn, the long-term benefits are
well worth it...
-Stephen
On 2/17/06, Christian Cabanero <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First off I gotta say ramping up with Maven 2 has been very hard compared to
> Maven 1. I was a big fan of Maven 1 and was using it successfully and it
> was doing what I wanted but now with Maven 2 it's just so much more darn
> complex and customizable it makes it harder to even know where to start. I
> like the high level design better but it's not user friendly. It'd be nice
> if there was a cook book that went over more than just the basics of
> compiling and running tests and checking dependencies.
>
> Can someone give me pointers on the following:
>
> * How do I make it so that when I run tests the tests results also show up
> as part of the site generation? It'd be nice if I could see a test summary
> and also navigate from the site the tests that failed.
>
> * How to get continuous integration running with Maven2. Is there a guide
> somewhere?
>
> * I tried running a clover:report task and it downloaded all the proper jars
> but it's giving me an error saying that the license has expired. The
> documentation said that a 30-day eval license was included but I didn't see
> it. I do have a valid license file however. How do I point Maven to use
> the valid clover.license file? I tried putting the license file in the same
> dir as the jar file as is what you normally do with clover but that didn't
> work.
>
> * How do I make it so that certain goals are always part of the default set
> and always run? I just want to type "mvn" and have it execute these goals.
>
> Thanks,
> Christian
>
> <rant>
>
> Is Maven 2 still in a "beta" state? If not it's kind of suprising how
> tricky it is to really get up and running. If one of the goals is to
> replace Ant and get widespread adoption it's got to be easy for people to
> actually use the thing and get functionality that goes beyond compiling,
> testing and dependency checking I would think. Right now there seem to be
> too many gotchas and a lot of complexity in the sake of configurability but
> that's killing ease of use IMHO.
>
> In the Maven 1 days I definitely was a big believer but now I'm not so
> sure. I have the formidable task of trying to get my team to adopt Maven 2
> (I work at the largest online retailer) and all I see the team members
> saying is "Man, this is way too complex, Ant is just easy to use, why don't
> we just use that?"
>
> </rant>
>
>
--
Stephen Duncan Jr
www.stephenduncanjr.com
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