You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Jaroslaw Mikluszka <ja...@op.pl> on 2004/02/15 20:31:05 UTC
The confusing publishing concept of Lenya
Hello,
Recently I heard some good reviews about Apache Lenya.
So I decided to look at this Content Management System (CMS)
in detail and I have installed Lenya a few days ago.
Unfortunatelly, after this several days with this system I still
can't understand the main publishing concept of Lenya...
Every CMS should separate the data (as main information, e.g raw,
unformatted text), structure and layout. Hovewer, Lenya's default
publication mixes the data of a website with layout in one XML-file.
There are only few XML-tags (DC tags), the text isn't coded in
structured XML-tags, but is placed within XHTML-tags.
So the default publication doesn't separate the data from the layout
information (e.g <p>,<h1>,<h2>). Nor you can build your own document
structure when using integrated XML-editors (BXE), which put the layout-
oriented tags into the document. So you mix the data with layout
and have completly no control over the structure.
Does Lenya always save the content with layout-information?
Can I define my own structure of the whole publication
(in Relax NG), store only the data (text) as valid XML-document
and produce the final(X)HTML website with a XSLT-stylesheet?
Is it possible with Lenya? How could I do this?
If I get only the data (text) into a XML-document, how could I edit
this document with Lenya editors? Is it possible for my content-authors
to see the document structure: that means XML-editor should
suggest them to enter the information into predefined tags,
e.g <article>, <title>, <author>, ... Simultanously the XML-editor
shouldn't store the layout tags in XML-document (as BXE in default
publication does). The layout should be controlled by programmers,
not by content-authors.
Do I expect to much from Lenya? Or I'm wrong?
Every reply will be appreciated!
Thanks!
Regards,
Jaroslaw Mikluszka
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: The confusing publishing concept of Lenya
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Jaroslaw Mikluszka wrote:
> Schema for the "default publication": "xhtml.rng" can be found in
> TOMCAT_HOME\webapps\lenya\lenya\pubs\default\config\doctypes\schemas ?
> It uses "xhtml-strict.rng", "lenya.rng" and "dublincore.rng".
> Can I also create my own Relax NG structure in this folder?
absolutely.
> Where can I find some info how to setup Lenya and build own publication?
> The folder structure is sometimes so complex that I loose the
> orientation in it.
you are right, and currently there is not much in that area. have you
checked the documentation on the site and the wiki?
> Thanks for the tip. I will look at it at the weekend.
> Are there somewhere another publication examples for Lenya?
http://wyona.org has some other ones
> I wanted to build a few simple Relax NG schemas for the main parts of
> my website (product descriptions, user manuals, FAQs, some news) to force
> content-authors to enter the right text into the required, predefined tags.
> The validation should ensure that they did their job well.
yes. all the editors in lenya (bxe, forms editor) validate against the
same relax ng schema.
>>>Do I expect to much from Lenya? Or I'm wrong?
>>
>>you are wrong, but admittely it could be communicated better.
>
>
> IMHO that is the strongest weakness of Lenya at this time. The whole
> system is interesting, but the documentation is either not present
> or too technical for a beginner. I would be happy to find some good
> examples or some simple Howtos.
agreed
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: The confusing publishing concept of Lenya
Posted by Jaroslaw Mikluszka <ja...@op.pl>.
Thank you for your reply! Some things are clear for me now...
> p, h1, h2 have absolutely nothing to do with layout
If these tags appear in xhtml-strict you are right - they have
nothing to do with layout. I didn't know that "default publication"
is based on xhtml-strict. But when you see this for the first time
it's a little bit confusing.
> xhtml strict is a good tradeoff between custom xml and installed base
Schema for the "default publication": "xhtml.rng" can be found in
TOMCAT_HOME\webapps\lenya\lenya\pubs\default\config\doctypes\schemas ?
It uses "xhtml-strict.rng", "lenya.rng" and "dublincore.rng".
Can I also create my own Relax NG structure in this folder?
Where can I find some info how to setup Lenya and build own publication?
The folder structure is sometimes so complex that I loose the
orientation in it.
>> So you mix the data with layout and have completly no control
>> over the structure.
> ???
I meant the structure of "defauft publication". It's probably suitable
for the simplest pages, but if you want to present documents with
rich structure (manuals, books, reviews, ...) you need better control.
> > Can I define my own structure of the whole publication
> > (in Relax NG), store only the data (text) as valid XML-document
> > and produce the final(X)HTML website with a XSLT-stylesheet?
> > Is it possible with Lenya? How could I do this?
>
> yes this is possible. take a look at the blog publication for an example
Thanks for the tip. I will look at it at the weekend.
Are there somewhere another publication examples for Lenya?
I wanted to build a few simple Relax NG schemas for the main parts of
my website (product descriptions, user manuals, FAQs, some news) to force
content-authors to enter the right text into the required, predefined tags.
The validation should ensure that they did their job well.
> > Do I expect to much from Lenya? Or I'm wrong?
>
> you are wrong, but admittely it could be communicated better.
IMHO that is the strongest weakness of Lenya at this time. The whole
system is interesting, but the documentation is either not present
or too technical for a beginner. I would be happy to find some good
examples or some simple Howtos.
Regards,
Jaroslaw Mikluszka
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: The confusing publishing concept of Lenya
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Jaroslaw Mikluszka wrote:
> So the default publication doesn't separate the data from the layout
> information (e.g <p>,<h1>,<h2>).
p, h1, h2 have absolutely nothing to do with layout
xhtml strict is a good tradeoff between custom xml and installed base
> Nor you can build your own document
> structure when using integrated XML-editors (BXE), which put the layout-
> oriented tags into the document.
oh yes you can. you can define your own relax ng
>So you mix the data with layout
> and have completly no control over the structure.
???
> Does Lenya always save the content with layout-information?
again, xhtml strict has NOTHING to do with layout.
> Can I define my own structure of the whole publication
> (in Relax NG), store only the data (text) as valid XML-document
> and produce the final(X)HTML website with a XSLT-stylesheet?
> Is it possible with Lenya? How could I do this?
yes this is possible. take a look at the blog publication for an example
> If I get only the data (text) into a XML-document, how could I edit
> this document with Lenya editors? Is it possible for my content-authors
> to see the document structure: that means XML-editor should
> suggest them to enter the information into predefined tags,
> e.g <article>, <title>, <author>, ... Simultanously the XML-editor
> shouldn't store the layout tags in XML-document (as BXE in default
> publication does). The layout should be controlled by programmers,
> not by content-authors.
the xhtml doctype was chosen because it is a good tradeoff between
ubiquity and structure.
> Do I expect to much from Lenya? Or I'm wrong?
you are wrong, but admittely it could be communicated better.
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org