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Posted to dev@hbase.apache.org by Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com> on 2017/08/15 12:54:46 UTC

[DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Hi All,

As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
from satisfying.

This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and the
migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the task
is not getting much closer to the goal.

This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it from
the baseline.
I have created a ticket for this task:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.

What do you all think?

Thanks, Tamaas

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Ted Yu <yu...@gmail.com>.

+1 on removing HTrace 3.2.0-incubating

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
> > from satisfying.
> >
> >
> Yes.
>
>
> > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and the
> > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the
> task
> > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> >
> > Yes.
>
>
> > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
> > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it from
> > the baseline.
> > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> >
> I think a start-over a good idea as is punting on it until it has had
> proper attention.
>
> Thanks Tamaas,
> M
>
>
>
> > Thanks, Tamaas
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
> from satisfying.
>
>
Yes.


> This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and the
> migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the task
> is not getting much closer to the goal.
>
> Yes.


> This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
> have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it from
> the baseline.
> I have created a ticket for this task:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
>
> What do you all think?
>
>
I think a start-over a good idea as is punting on it until it has had
proper attention.

Thanks Tamaas,
M



> Thanks, Tamaas
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to hdfs
> would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?


Yep! From the perspective of Phoenix, HTrace API is our public API. We
should consider this as we do other places where 3rd party deps leak into
our API. Just as we removed Guava/Service, I suggest we should remove
HTrace/Span. If we want to support tracing, we should provide our own API
for it, and provide connective tissue for interop with whatever 3rd party
libs our users want to use. Or at least interfaces that downstreamers can
use to implement that connective tissue. HBase Spans -> HTrace Spans would
be a good demonstration of such an API, and give us what we need to restore
Span continuation through HDFS.

All this requires an owner, for which tracing in HBase has none. Maybe our
Tamas has some vested interest in being that owner, having brought up the
topic to start with?

On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and short
> > notice for 2.0.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > received.
> > >
> > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs to
> > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
> > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > >
> > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
> > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > ownerless
> > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I
> wanted
> > > to
> > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the
> role
> > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their
> users,
> > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > received.
> > > >
> > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the
> > > relative
> > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out
> there.
> > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases,
> > with
> > > no
> > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a
> > while,
> > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and
> > support.
> > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
> > > >
> > > > -n
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled
> > into
> > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get
> muddied
> > > > around
> > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment
> > but
> > > > IIRC
> > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me
> when
> > > > spans
> > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4
> > revamp
> > > > and
> > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> > > > finished
> > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Nod.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> > "HTrace"
> > > > get
> > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into
> > Hadoop
> > > > if
> > > > > > need be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> > > > alive).
> > > > >
> > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > >
> > > > > St.Ack
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We
> > > give
> > > > > off
> > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a
> > > story
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> > > > suggest
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into
> > > HBase
> > > > is
> > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > > maintained
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and
> looks
> > > > like
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we
> > still
> > > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then
> > > start
> > > > it
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0
> too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> from
> > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > truth's
> > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > > decrepit hands
> > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>.

Thanks Mike. If htrace goes to the attic I would be inclined to support
removal. (Do we keep in branch-1 and below, remove in 2 and up, and
document the removal?) And we should bring this to the attention of the
Hadoop and Phoenix dev communities as well. Let me write a note to
dev@phoenix.



On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Mike Drob <md...@apache.org> wrote:

> HTrace committer reporting for duty...
>
> I think that HTrace is lacking momentum right now. If there's renewed
> interest in it, then somebody really needs to speak up. I've started an
> attic discussion on the list there, based on my recent experiences with the
> project, though.
>
> If you're interested, follow along or chime in at
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ff87eb11bbfc3ca27a83c0ab377459
> 767a46175447f763b1bf052987@%3Cdev.htrace.apache.org%3E
>
> Mike
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, tracing is built on HTrace so as long as the Hadoop, HBase, and
> > Phoenix builds include the same 'generation' of htrace, spans are
> available
> > at all of those layers.
> >
> > I guess the question (and implication) is we have zero confidence that
> > HTrace will ever be any good. That correct? HTrace is dead? If the answer
> > is yes, then I don't have an objection. If the answer is no, or maybe,
> then
> > I object to removing tracing support without a replacement of equal
> > viability.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to
> hdfs
> > > > would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not
> > > show traces through hdfs [1]).
> > >
> > > St.Ack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and
> > short
> > > > > notice for 2.0.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <
> apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be
> well
> > > > > > received.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase
> > devs
> > > to
> > > > > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See
> > HBASE-18431
> > > > > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a
> > more
> > > > > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of
> HTrace.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <
> ndimiduk@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > > > > ownerless
> > > > > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back
> I
> > > > wanted
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for
> > the
> > > > role
> > > > > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to
> their
> > > > users,
> > > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be
> well
> > > > > > received.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given
> > the
> > > > > > relative
> > > > > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives
> out
> > > > there.
> > > > > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5
> > releases,
> > > > > with
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field
> in a
> > > > > while,
> > > > > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling
> and
> > > > > support.
> > > > > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more
> > > recently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -n
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version
> > pulled
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table
> reporting
> > > on
> > > > > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get
> > > > muddied
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the
> > > moment
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > IIRC
> > > > > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to
> > me
> > > > when
> > > > > > > spans
> > > > > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix
> level.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the
> htrace-4
> > > > > revamp
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a
> > half
> > > > > > > finished
> > > > > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get
> > > finished.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nod.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> > > > > "HTrace"
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches
> > into
> > > > > Hadoop
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > need be.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has
> come
> > > back
> > > > > > > alive).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > St.Ack
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we
> > mislead.
> > > We
> > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace
> > > tells a
> > > > > > story
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky
> view.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before
> we
> > > can
> > > > > > > suggest
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > > > > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2
> > > into
> > > > > > HBase
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > > > > > maintained
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451)
> and
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and
> if
> > we
> > > > > still
> > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful)
> > > then
> > > > > > start
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version
> 2.0.0
> > > > too.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning
> torn
> > > > from
> > > > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> > from
> > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > truth's
> > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > decrepit hands
> >    - A23, Crosstalk
> >
>



-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Mike Drob <md...@apache.org>.

HTrace committer reporting for duty...

I think that HTrace is lacking momentum right now. If there's renewed
interest in it, then somebody really needs to speak up. I've started an
attic discussion on the list there, based on my recent experiences with the
project, though.

If you're interested, follow along or chime in at
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/ff87eb11bbfc3ca27a83c0ab377459767a46175447f763b1bf052987@%3Cdev.htrace.apache.org%3E

Mike

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Yes, tracing is built on HTrace so as long as the Hadoop, HBase, and
> Phoenix builds include the same 'generation' of htrace, spans are available
> at all of those layers.
>
> I guess the question (and implication) is we have zero confidence that
> HTrace will ever be any good. That correct? HTrace is dead? If the answer
> is yes, then I don't have an objection. If the answer is no, or maybe, then
> I object to removing tracing support without a replacement of equal
> viability.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to hdfs
> > > would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?
> > >
> > >
> > That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not
> > show traces through hdfs [1]).
> >
> > St.Ack
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and
> short
> > > > notice for 2.0.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > > > received.
> > > > >
> > > > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase
> devs
> > to
> > > > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See
> HBASE-18431
> > > > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a
> more
> > > > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > > > ownerless
> > > > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I
> > > wanted
> > > > > to
> > > > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for
> the
> > > role
> > > > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their
> > > users,
> > > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > > > received.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given
> the
> > > > > relative
> > > > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out
> > > there.
> > > > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5
> releases,
> > > > with
> > > > > no
> > > > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a
> > > > while,
> > > > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and
> > > > support.
> > > > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more
> > recently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -n
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version
> pulled
> > > > into
> > > > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting
> > on
> > > > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get
> > > muddied
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the
> > moment
> > > > but
> > > > > > IIRC
> > > > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to
> me
> > > when
> > > > > > spans
> > > > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4
> > > > revamp
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a
> half
> > > > > > finished
> > > > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get
> > finished.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nod.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> > > > "HTrace"
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches
> into
> > > > Hadoop
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > need be.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come
> > back
> > > > > > alive).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > St.Ack
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we
> mislead.
> > We
> > > > > give
> > > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace
> > tells a
> > > > > story
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we
> > can
> > > > > > suggest
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > > > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2
> > into
> > > > > HBase
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > > > > maintained
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and
> > > looks
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if
> we
> > > > still
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful)
> > then
> > > > > start
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0
> > > too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> > > from
> > > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> from
> > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > truth's
> > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrew
>
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>    - A23, Crosstalk
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>.

Yes, tracing is built on HTrace so as long as the Hadoop, HBase, and
Phoenix builds include the same 'generation' of htrace, spans are available
at all of those layers.

I guess the question (and implication) is we have zero confidence that
HTrace will ever be any good. That correct? HTrace is dead? If the answer
is yes, then I don't have an objection. If the answer is no, or maybe, then
I object to removing tracing support without a replacement of equal
viability.


On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to hdfs
> > would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?
> >
> >
> That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not
> show traces through hdfs [1]).
>
> St.Ack
>
>
>
> 1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and short
> > > notice for 2.0.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > > received.
> > > >
> > > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs
> to
> > > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
> > > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > > >
> > > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
> > > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > > ownerless
> > > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I
> > wanted
> > > > to
> > > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the
> > role
> > > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their
> > users,
> > > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > > received.
> > > > >
> > > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the
> > > > relative
> > > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out
> > there.
> > > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases,
> > > with
> > > > no
> > > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a
> > > while,
> > > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and
> > > support.
> > > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more
> recently.
> > > > >
> > > > > -n
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled
> > > into
> > > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting
> on
> > > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get
> > muddied
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the
> moment
> > > but
> > > > > IIRC
> > > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me
> > when
> > > > > spans
> > > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4
> > > revamp
> > > > > and
> > > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> > > > > finished
> > > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get
> finished.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Nod.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> > > "HTrace"
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into
> > > Hadoop
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > need be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come
> back
> > > > > alive).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > St.Ack
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead.
> We
> > > > give
> > > > > > off
> > > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace
> tells a
> > > > story
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we
> can
> > > > > suggest
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2
> into
> > > > HBase
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > > > maintained
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and
> > looks
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we
> > > still
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful)
> then
> > > > start
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0
> > too.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> > from
> > > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > > truth's
> > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> truth's
> > > > decrepit hands
> > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to hdfs
> would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?
>
>
That is my understanding (Correct me if I am wrong but Phoenix does not
show traces through hdfs [1]).

St.Ack



1. https://phoenix.apache.org/tracing.html



> On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and short
> > notice for 2.0.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > received.
> > >
> > > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs to
> > > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
> > > and PHOENIX-4076.
> > >
> > > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
> > > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> > ownerless
> > > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I
> wanted
> > > to
> > > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the
> role
> > > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their
> users,
> > > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > > received.
> > > >
> > > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the
> > > relative
> > > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out
> there.
> > > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases,
> > with
> > > no
> > > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a
> > while,
> > > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and
> > support.
> > > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
> > > >
> > > > -n
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled
> > into
> > > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get
> muddied
> > > > around
> > > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment
> > but
> > > > IIRC
> > > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me
> when
> > > > spans
> > > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4
> > revamp
> > > > and
> > > > > the dots get connected.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> > > > finished
> > > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Nod.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> > "HTrace"
> > > > get
> > > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into
> > Hadoop
> > > > if
> > > > > > need be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> > > > alive).
> > > > >
> > > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > > >
> > > > > St.Ack
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We
> > > give
> > > > > off
> > > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a
> > > story
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> > > > suggest
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into
> > > HBase
> > > > is
> > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > > maintained
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and
> looks
> > > > like
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we
> > still
> > > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then
> > > start
> > > > it
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0
> too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn
> from
> > > > > truth's
> > > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > truth's
> > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > > decrepit hands
> > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Sean Busbey <se...@gmail.com>.

Say we replaced it with brave for 2.0, Phoenix tracing through to hdfs
would be just as broken as if we pulled it out entirely, no?

On Aug 15, 2017 7:18 PM, "Nick Dimiduk" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and short
> notice for 2.0.
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > received.
> >
> > The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs to
> > interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
> > and PHOENIX-4076.
> >
> > Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
> > extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless,
> ownerless
> > > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I wanted
> > to
> > > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the role
> > > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> > received.
> > >
> > > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the
> > relative
> > > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out there.
> > > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases,
> with
> > no
> > > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a
> while,
> > > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and
> support.
> > > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
> > >
> > > -n
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <
> apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled
> into
> > > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > > > phoenix-only spans.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A colleague made
> > > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied
> > > around
> > > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment
> but
> > > IIRC
> > > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > > >
> > > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when
> > > spans
> > > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4
> revamp
> > > and
> > > > the dots get connected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > We hollow out
> > > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> > > finished
> > > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Nod.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an
> "HTrace"
> > > get
> > > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into
> Hadoop
> > > if
> > > > > need be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> > > alive).
> > > >
> > > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > > >
> > > > Ditto HDFS.
> > > >
> > > > St.Ack
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > t
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We
> > give
> > > > off
> > > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a
> > story
> > > > > about
> > > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> > > suggest
> > > > to
> > > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > S
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> > tamaas@cloudera.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into
> > HBase
> > > is
> > > > > far
> > > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> > maintained
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks
> > > like
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > task
> > > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we
> still
> > > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then
> > start
> > > it
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > > truth's
> > > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > truth's
> > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > decrepit hands
> >    - A23, Crosstalk
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>.

Agreed that ripping with no replacement would be too extreme and short
notice for 2.0.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org> wrote:

> > If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> received.
>
> The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs to
> interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
> and PHOENIX-4076.
>
> Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
> extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless, ownerless
> > code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I wanted
> to
> > see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the role
> > currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> > their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well
> received.
> >
> > I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the
> relative
> > lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out there.
> > HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases, with
> no
> > release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a while,
> > but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and support.
> > For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
> >
> > -n
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> > >
> > >
> > > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled into
> > > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > > phoenix-only spans.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > A colleague made
> > > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied
> > around
> > > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but
> > IIRC
> > > > it's in 2.8.
> > > >
> > > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when
> > spans
> > > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> > >
> > >
> > > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4 revamp
> > and
> > > the dots get connected.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > We hollow out
> > > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> > finished
> > > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Nod.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace"
> > get
> > > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop
> > if
> > > > need be.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> > alive).
> > >
> > > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> > >
> > > Ditto HDFS.
> > >
> > > St.Ack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> > apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > t
> > > > >
> > > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > > >
> > > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We
> give
> > > off
> > > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a
> story
> > > > about
> > > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > > >
> > > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> > suggest
> > > to
> > > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > S
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <
> tamaas@cloudera.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into
> HBase
> > is
> > > > far
> > > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really
> maintained
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks
> > like
> > > > the
> > > > > > task
> > > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still
> > > want
> > > > to
> > > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then
> start
> > it
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > > truth's
> > > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> truth's
> > > > decrepit hands
> > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrew
>
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>    - A23, Crosstalk
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>.

> If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well received.

The counter point to this more mindfulness on the part of HBase devs to
interface compatibility impacts would go a long way. See HBASE-18431
and PHOENIX-4076.

Ripping out entirely the only tracing interfaces available is a more
extreme example, although not without cause. (The state of HTrace.)


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless, ownerless
> code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I wanted to
> see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the role
> currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
> their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well received.
>
> I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the relative
> lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out there.
> HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases, with no
> release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a while,
> but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and support.
> For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
>
> -n
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > >
> > >
> > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> >
> >
> > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled into
> > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > phoenix-only spans.
> >
> >
> >
> > > A colleague made
> > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied
> around
> > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but
> IIRC
> > > it's in 2.8.
> > >
> > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when
> spans
> > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> >
> >
> > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4 revamp
> and
> > the dots get connected.
> >
> >
> >
> > > We hollow out
> > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> finished
> > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > >
> > >
> > Nod.
> >
> >
> >
> > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace"
> get
> > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop
> if
> > > need be.
> > >
> > >
> > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> alive).
> >
> > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> >
> > Ditto HDFS.
> >
> > St.Ack
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > >
> > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > t
> > > >
> > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > >
> > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give
> > off
> > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story
> > > about
> > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > >
> > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> suggest
> > to
> > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > >
> > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > S
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <tamaas@cloudera.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase
> is
> > > far
> > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks
> like
> > > the
> > > > > task
> > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start
> it
> > > > from
> > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > truth's
> > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > > decrepit hands
> > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless, ownerless
> code.


+1

What else should we be looking at purging that fits this category?

St.Ack



> I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the relative
> lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out there.
> HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases, with no
> release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a while,
> but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and support.
> For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.
>
> -n
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> > >
> > >
> > We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
> >
> >
> > Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled into
> > phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> > phoenix-only spans.
> >
> >
> >
> > > A colleague made
> > > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied
> around
> > > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but
> IIRC
> > > it's in 2.8.
> > >
> > > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when
> spans
> > > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
> >
> >
> > The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4 revamp
> and
> > the dots get connected.
> >
> >
> >
> > > We hollow out
> > > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half
> finished
> > > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> > >
> > >
> > Nod.
> >
> >
> >
> > > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace"
> get
> > > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop
> if
> > > need be.
> > >
> > >
> > HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back
> alive).
> >
> > HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
> >
> > Ditto HDFS.
> >
> > St.Ack
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <
> apurtell@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > > >
> > > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > t
> > > >
> > > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > > >
> > > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give
> > off
> > > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story
> > > about
> > > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > > >
> > > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can
> suggest
> > to
> > > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > > >
> > > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > S
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <tamaas@cloudera.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase
> is
> > > far
> > > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks
> like
> > > the
> > > > > task
> > > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start
> it
> > > > from
> > > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> > truth's
> > > > > decrepit hands
> > > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > > decrepit hands
> > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Nick Dimiduk <nd...@gmail.com>.

IMHO, we should be actively pruning half-implemented, testless, ownerless
code. HTrace queues up well for that chopping block. Long back I wanted to
see this particular feature though, but I cannot volunteer for the role
currently. If Phoenix devs are advertising this feature to their users,
their contributions re: HBase and HDFS maintenance would be well received.

I question the choice of HTrace as the tool for the job, given the relative
lack of activity in that project vs. the myriad alternatives out there.
HTrace has been incubating for 2.5 years, has seen only 5 releases, with no
release in the last 18 months. I haven't evaluated the field in a while,
but there's probably something with much more mature tooling and support.
For instance, openzipkin/brave has much more activity more recently.

-n

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
> >
> >
> We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.
>
>
>
> > Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".
>
>
> Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled into
> phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
> phoenix-only spans.
>
>
>
> > A colleague made
> > a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied around
> > the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but IIRC
> > it's in 2.8.
> >
> > Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when spans
> > at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.
>
>
> The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4 revamp and
> the dots get connected.
>
>
>
> > We hollow out
> > the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half finished
> > state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
> >
> >
> Nod.
>
>
>
> > What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace" get
> > well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop if
> > need be.
> >
> >
> HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back alive).
>
> HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.
>
> Ditto HDFS.
>
> St.Ack
>
>
>
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > > >
> > > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > t
> > >
> > > What you thinking Andrew?
> > >
> > > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give
> off
> > > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story
> > about
> > > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> > >
> > > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can suggest
> to
> > > our users this system is viable debugging.
> > >
> > > What you reckon Andrew?
> > > Thanks,
> > > S
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is
> > far
> > > > > from satisfying.
> > > > >
> > > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained
> and
> > > the
> > > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like
> > the
> > > > task
> > > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still
> want
> > to
> > > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it
> > > from
> > > > > the baseline.
> > > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from
> truth's
> > > > decrepit hands
> > > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > decrepit hands
> >    - A23, Crosstalk
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.
>
>
We could do this. Update jar and doc it as broke.



> Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works".


Nit: I didn't think this was htrace. It was an old version pulled into
phoenix world where it lives storing to phoenix table reporting on
phoenix-only spans.



> A colleague made
> a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied around
> the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but IIRC
> it's in 2.8.
>
> Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when spans
> at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level.


The spans in hbase are just hanging until they get the htrace-4 revamp and
the dots get connected.



> We hollow out
> the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half finished
> state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.
>
>
Nod.



> What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace" get
> well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop if
> need be.
>
>
HTrace needs care and a viewer (zipkin I think now it has come back alive).

HBase needs a couple of narratives wired through.

Ditto HDFS.

St.Ack



>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> > >
> > > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> > >
> > >
> > t
> >
> > What you thinking Andrew?
> >
> > Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give off
> > the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story
> about
> > request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
> >
> > HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can suggest to
> > our users this system is viable debugging.
> >
> > What you reckon Andrew?
> > Thanks,
> > S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is
> far
> > > > from satisfying.
> > > >
> > > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and
> > the
> > > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like
> the
> > > task
> > > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > > >
> > > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want
> to
> > > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it
> > from
> > > > the baseline.
> > > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > > >
> > > > What do you all think?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > > decrepit hands
> > >    - A23, Crosstalk
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrew
>
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>    - A23, Crosstalk
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>.

Doc update to indicate HTrace is unfinished is fine.

Phoenix uses HTrace to support query tracing. It "works". A colleague made
a contribution to HDFS to fix a case where spans could get muddied around
the WAL. We are carrying that patch on top of 2.7 for the moment but IIRC
it's in 2.8.

Removing all of our HBase level spans doesn't make sense to me when spans
at HDFS level will not be removed, nor at the Phoenix level. We hollow out
the middle. I think this is worse than leaving things at a half finished
state. At least in the half finished state it might get finished.

What are the most pressing issues? I'm up for supporting an "HTrace" get
well. I'll need your (community) help for getting patches into Hadoop if
need be.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
> >
> > Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
> >
> >
> t
>
> What you thinking Andrew?
>
> Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give off
> the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story about
> request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.
>
> HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can suggest to
> our users this system is viable debugging.
>
> What you reckon Andrew?
> Thanks,
> S
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
> > > from satisfying.
> > >
> > > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and
> the
> > > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the
> > task
> > > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> > >
> > > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
> > > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it
> from
> > > the baseline.
> > > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> > >
> > > What do you all think?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Tamaas
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Andrew
> >
> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> > decrepit hands
> >    - A23, Crosstalk
> >
>

-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Stack <st...@duboce.net>.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>
wrote:

> -1 to removing HTrace from HBase.
>
> Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.
>
>
What you thinking Andrew?

Trace is broke whether we upgrade or not. As is, we mislead. We give off
the impression that hooking up hbase and hdfs via trace tells a story about
request traversals when it at best you'd get a wonky view.

HTrace needs work. HBase and HDFS also need work before we can suggest to
our users this system is viable debugging.

What you reckon Andrew?
Thanks,
S




>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
> > from satisfying.
> >
> > This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and the
> > migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the
> task
> > is not getting much closer to the goal.
> >
> > This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
> > have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it from
> > the baseline.
> > I have created a ticket for this task:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> > The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > Thanks, Tamaas
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Andrew
>
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>    - A23, Crosstalk
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Remove HTrace 3.2.0-incubating from HBase

Posted by Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org>.

-1 to removing HTrace from HBase.

Upgrade to the desired version, that would be fine.


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Tamas Penzes <ta...@cloudera.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> As far as I know the actual integration of HTrace 3.2 into HBase is far
> from satisfying.
>
> This version of the library is old, buggy, not really maintained and the
> migration to version 4.x is quite hard (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-14451) and looks like the task
> is not getting much closer to the goal.
>
> This is why I think we should remove HTrace now and if we still want to
> have some art of tracing (I think it would be useful) then start it from
> the baseline.
> I have created a ticket for this task:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18601
> The removal could be quite fast and reach version 2.0.0 too.
>
> What do you all think?
>
> Thanks, Tamaas
>



-- 
Best regards,
Andrew

Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
decrepit hands
   - A23, Crosstalk