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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Alvar Freude <al...@a-blast.org> on 2006/11/15 00:10:58 UTC
Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Hi mod_perl and Perl users,
There is an international contest and comparison with scientific
evaluation about programming languages (and frameworks) for web
development.
<http://www.plat-forms.org/>
It would be good for the reputation for mod_perl and Perl, if we
participate with good teams.
If you want to participate, you may contact me for further informations
etc. If you have suggestions for other teams, you may also write me.
The is also a mailing list for Perl coordination etc:
https://lists.odem.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-platform
The details:
============
The contest will take place at the end of January in Nürnberg
(Nuremberg), Germany.
As member of the German Perl Workshop team I am the "platform
representative" for Perl [1] and we are searching at least three
top teams à three developers for the Perl platform.
<http://www.plat-forms.org/>
The goal of the context is to compare the pros and cons of each
development language approach. It is not primary about comparing the
teams itself. For this, good teams for each language are searched.
The contest is organized by the Free University of Berlin, Linux
Business Campus Nürnberg (a non profit association for promoting Open
Source) and iX, a german magazine for enterprise computing.
So my question is, if YOU want to participate with a team (three
developers) at the contest?
If traveling costs are a problem: the German Perl Workshop may support
good teams.
When you have a recommendation for other top Perl web developers,
companies and/or teams, which may participate, feel free to write me!
The benefit for companies is, that their names will be promoted in the
papers written by the Free University of Berlin, and the papers will
be published not only in the computer sciences community, but also as
study and in business magazines etc. So this may be a good chance to
promote Perl as a business ready (Web-) programming language -- and
the participating companies or teams as well!
If you have further questions, feel free to ask me! You may also have
a look at the FAQ and the detailed announcement:
<http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm>
<http://www.plat-forms.org/docs/Plat_Forms-announcement.pdf>
Thanks && Ciao
Alvar
[1]:
Initially Perl was not listed as a platform, because the organizers
thought it is dead; we convinced the Organizers to include Perl and
now have to proove, that it isn't dead ;-)
--
** Alvar C.H. Freude, http://alvar.a-blast.org/
** http://www.wen-waehlen.de/
** http://odem.org/
** http://www.assoziations-blaster.de/
Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Posted by Alvar Freude <al...@a-blast.org>.
Hi,
-- Jonathan Vanasco <mo...@2xlp.com> wrote:
> honestly, that contest looks ridiculously stupid and ill conceived.
honestly, it makes no sense to talk about how ridiculously this (or any
other contest) is.
It is in the world, and we had a fight to get Perl on the list of
participanting languages. Now we have to proove that Perl isn't dead and
that Perl isn't a lame duck (or lame camel ;-) ).
Now we can use it to promote Perl/mod_perl/Framework X. Or we can get
angry about it and let the others promote themselves.
It might be interesting to discuss about language choice or about how a
"good" contest should be organised. But that is not the topic here and I
don't make the rules for the contest.
> any developer worth hiring knows that different languages/platforms/
> frameworks are better suited for different tasks.
Because of this, the contest isn't evaluated by a machine. It will be
evaluated by people, so this one have to deal with this issue.
> Honestly, i don't understand how someone could hope garner an
> objective comparison of any two platforms by simply comparing a 30hr
> project across different implementations.
if you have a better idea how to do this in a realisable and feasible
way, you may contact Prof. Lutz Prechelt and suggest it.
Ciao
Alvar
--
** Alvar C.H. Freude, http://alvar.a-blast.org/
** http://www.wen-waehlen.de/
** http://odem.org/
** http://www.assoziations-blaster.de/
Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Posted by Foo JH <jh...@extracktor.com>.
Agreed. I believe at this point in time (mod)Perl's extensive library
support + Apache integration is still a unique value proposition.
However I suspect because it is not based on a oop foundation, people
tend to favour languages like Ruby instead.
To be realistic, whatever the outcome of this competition, it will not
likely to change the perception of (mod)Perl much. The Perl environment
needs to move forward, and be accepted by the general development and
business community. Otherwise it will become the next Cobol.
I fear the lack of progress in Perl 6 is a sign of impending doom...:(
Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Oh yes in the last period I have seen that other languages are more and more
> used comparing with perl.
> I can see more and more programs made in Python, including in fields in
> which there are no perl programs at all, like a screen reader for example.
> I see a bigger and bigger interest in Ruby and Ruby on Rails framework and a
> good promotion of them.
>
> So I think that Perl should be also be promoted because otherwise less and
> less programmers will become interested in it.
>
> Teddy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hahn, Christopher" <ch...@hp.com>
> To: "Alvar Freude" <al...@a-blast.org>
> Cc: "mod_perl list" <mo...@perl.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:32 AM
> Subject: RE: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
>
>
>
> ...and yet I wonder if the gentleman is correct in suggesting that
> "It would be good for the reputation for mod_perl and Perl"
>
> If so, then while it might not be the smartest thing in everyone's
> opinion,
> I would still like to see Perl stand out well against other tools!
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Vanasco [mailto:modperl-list@2xlp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:07 PM
> To: Alvar Freude
> Cc: mod_perl list
> Subject: Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Alvar Freude wrote:
>
>
>> Hi mod_perl and Perl users,
>>
>> There is an international contest and comparison with scientific
>> evaluation about programming languages (and frameworks) for web
>> development.
>>
>> <http://www.plat-forms.org/>
>>
>
> honestly, that contest looks ridiculously stupid and ill conceived.
>
> any developer worth hiring knows that different languages/platforms/
> frameworks are better suited for different tasks.
>
> if you build '1 web application' under 20 languages / frameworks, you're
> sure to have some frameworks handle it amazingly well -- and others
> horrible -- all because of the design specs.
> If you tweak the parameters of that application ever so slightly, you'll
> easily flip the results.
>
> You'll also run into issues where benefits/limitations aren't from the
> languages themselves, but from frameworks built on top of them.
>
> Honestly, i don't understand how someone could hope garner an objective
> comparison of any two platforms by simply comparing a 30hr project
> across different implementations.
>
>
>
> // Jonathan Vanasco
>
> | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> | FindMeOn.com - The cure for Multiple Web Personality Disorder Web
> | Identity Management and 3D Social Networking
> | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> | RoadSound.com - Tools For Bands, Stuff For Fans Collaborative Online
> | Management And Syndication Tools
> | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
>
Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Posted by Octavian Rasnita <or...@gmail.com>.
Oh yes in the last period I have seen that other languages are more and more
used comparing with perl.
I can see more and more programs made in Python, including in fields in
which there are no perl programs at all, like a screen reader for example.
I see a bigger and bigger interest in Ruby and Ruby on Rails framework and a
good promotion of them.
So I think that Perl should be also be promoted because otherwise less and
less programmers will become interested in it.
Teddy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hahn, Christopher" <ch...@hp.com>
To: "Alvar Freude" <al...@a-blast.org>
Cc: "mod_perl list" <mo...@perl.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
...and yet I wonder if the gentleman is correct in suggesting that
"It would be good for the reputation for mod_perl and Perl"
If so, then while it might not be the smartest thing in everyone's
opinion,
I would still like to see Perl stand out well against other tools!
Just my $0.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Vanasco [mailto:modperl-list@2xlp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:07 PM
To: Alvar Freude
Cc: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
On Nov 14, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Alvar Freude wrote:
> Hi mod_perl and Perl users,
>
> There is an international contest and comparison with scientific
> evaluation about programming languages (and frameworks) for web
> development.
>
> <http://www.plat-forms.org/>
honestly, that contest looks ridiculously stupid and ill conceived.
any developer worth hiring knows that different languages/platforms/
frameworks are better suited for different tasks.
if you build '1 web application' under 20 languages / frameworks, you're
sure to have some frameworks handle it amazingly well -- and others
horrible -- all because of the design specs.
If you tweak the parameters of that application ever so slightly, you'll
easily flip the results.
You'll also run into issues where benefits/limitations aren't from the
languages themselves, but from frameworks built on top of them.
Honestly, i don't understand how someone could hope garner an objective
comparison of any two platforms by simply comparing a 30hr project
across different implementations.
// Jonathan Vanasco
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| FindMeOn.com - The cure for Multiple Web Personality Disorder Web
| Identity Management and 3D Social Networking
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| RoadSound.com - Tools For Bands, Stuff For Fans Collaborative Online
| Management And Syndication Tools
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date:
11/14/2006 3:58 PM
RE: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Posted by "Hahn, Christopher" <ch...@hp.com>.
...and yet I wonder if the gentleman is correct in suggesting that
"It would be good for the reputation for mod_perl and Perl"
If so, then while it might not be the smartest thing in everyone's
opinion,
I would still like to see Perl stand out well against other tools!
Just my $0.02
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Vanasco [mailto:modperl-list@2xlp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:07 PM
To: Alvar Freude
Cc: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
On Nov 14, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Alvar Freude wrote:
> Hi mod_perl and Perl users,
>
> There is an international contest and comparison with scientific
> evaluation about programming languages (and frameworks) for web
> development.
>
> <http://www.plat-forms.org/>
honestly, that contest looks ridiculously stupid and ill conceived.
any developer worth hiring knows that different languages/platforms/
frameworks are better suited for different tasks.
if you build '1 web application' under 20 languages / frameworks, you're
sure to have some frameworks handle it amazingly well -- and others
horrible -- all because of the design specs.
If you tweak the parameters of that application ever so slightly, you'll
easily flip the results.
You'll also run into issues where benefits/limitations aren't from the
languages themselves, but from frameworks built on top of them.
Honestly, i don't understand how someone could hope garner an objective
comparison of any two platforms by simply comparing a 30hr project
across different implementations.
// Jonathan Vanasco
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| FindMeOn.com - The cure for Multiple Web Personality Disorder Web
| Identity Management and 3D Social Networking
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| RoadSound.com - Tools For Bands, Stuff For Fans Collaborative Online
| Management And Syndication Tools
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date:
11/14/2006 3:58 PM
Re: Web development platform contest and Perl / mod_perl
Posted by Jonathan Vanasco <mo...@2xlp.com>.
On Nov 14, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Alvar Freude wrote:
> Hi mod_perl and Perl users,
>
> There is an international contest and comparison with scientific
> evaluation about programming languages (and frameworks) for web
> development.
>
> <http://www.plat-forms.org/>
honestly, that contest looks ridiculously stupid and ill conceived.
any developer worth hiring knows that different languages/platforms/
frameworks are better suited for different tasks.
if you build '1 web application' under 20 languages / frameworks,
you're sure to have some frameworks handle it amazingly well -- and
others horrible -- all because of the design specs.
If you tweak the parameters of that application ever so slightly,
you'll easily flip the results.
You'll also run into issues where benefits/limitations aren't from
the languages themselves, but from frameworks built on top of them.
Honestly, i don't understand how someone could hope garner an
objective comparison of any two platforms by simply comparing a 30hr
project across different implementations.
// Jonathan Vanasco
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| FindMeOn.com - The cure for Multiple Web Personality Disorder
| Web Identity Management and 3D Social Networking
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| RoadSound.com - Tools For Bands, Stuff For Fans
| Collaborative Online Management And Syndication Tools
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -