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Posted to log4j-dev@logging.apache.org by Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com> on 2006/11/12 09:51:16 UTC
Anybody home?
Perhaps the committers left for a sabbatical, but I was wondering if Log4J
development is still continuing and who is in charge.
In particular, there are a lot of outstanding bugs and changes I'd like to
get in source control.
The impression I get from reading e-mails from the list is this project is
effectively dead.
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Good, then let's start a vote.
BTW, Curt's view on CLA before committer nomination, while pragmatic,
is not reflective of all ASF projects or the guidelines. Every other
ASF project I've been involved with nominated committers as they see
fit, and if after nomination the committer can't sign a CLA so s/he
can't accept the nomination, that's fine, no harm done. Sometimes the
prestige factor of committership will get people to be OK with a CLA,
whereas doing upfront paperwork is not up their alley.
Not an issue in this case, but just a note going forward.
Yoav
On 11/14/06, Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
>
> > Excellent. Have you signed the Contributors License Agreement (CLA)
> > found at?...
> > http://www.apache.org/licenses
>
> Yes, I believe I have.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Paul Smith <ps...@aconex.com>.
On 14/11/2006, at 2:32 PM, Jacob Kjome wrote:
> At 04:33 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >--- Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Elias, are you
> >> volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth, who has been extremely
> busy
> >> the last couple days canvassing Bugzilla reports, may be what we
> need
> >> to move things along.
> >
> >I'm volunteering.
> >
> >I'd like to 1.3 released within my lifetime :-)
> >
>
> Excellent. Have you signed the Contributors License Agreement
> (CLA) found at?...
> http://www.apache.org/licenses
>
> From what I've seen, Elias, you have shown yourself to be both
> capable and willing. As soon as you sign the CLA, you have my
> nomination for committer on the Log4j project.
nomination seconded.
cheers,
Paul "lost in an alternate universe" Smith
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>.
On Nov 14, 2006, at 1:04 AM, Elias Ross wrote:
> Yes, I believe I have.
>
You are listed at http://people.apache.org/~jim/committers.html. I
believe that I asked you to sign a CLA when we committed your
"concurrent appender" contribution.
I could see that you might be frustrated by having patches stay in
limbo for a long time. I understand the issue since I have
languishing patches in the APR queue for log4cxx.
I'm not sure if we discussed your submitted patches on the dev list
or if I just had thoughts that I never communicated. I think we have
shown huge improvement on handling patches that have been simple and
low-risk with the large number of languishing patches that were
killed off with 1.2.14. I expected that there would be a similar bug
killing spree for the next 1.3 alpha release. However, your patches
were problematic in general and instead of diving in and trying to
dissect them, I skipped over them for lower risk and lower effort bug
kills. I've re-reviewed some of your patches and made sure that my
comments went into the bug entry.
Bug 34759 I would have to -1 in its current state since it removes a
public member from a class and adds a new abstract method to an base
class, both of which might break someone who is using an user-
provided pattern converter. I agree that the existing signature is
ugly, but it can't be simply changed in either 1.2 or 1.3.
Bug 35758 seemed reasonable and only affected log4j 1.3, so I
attached a patch file that corresponded with the earlier submission
(but ignoring whitespace changes) and committed the change.
Bug 34945 didn't have a patch attached and so is hard to analyze.
There seems to be an suggesting that something should be removed from
log4j and if applications running on older JVM's that depend on the
behavior they could add some more code. It is not acceptable to
break existing well-behaved apps by changes in log4j 1.2 or 1.3.
log4j 2.0 would not be bound to that level of compatibility.
Bug 39971 changed default configuration values and would change the
performance characteristics for existing apps. Though the change may
be beneficial for potentially a majority of apps using log4j, there
are likely some apps that would not desire the change and you can't
change the rules on them. I'm a pretty strong -1 for the change on
1.2, but might be persuaded to accept it on 1.3, ideally after the
next alpha.
Bug 24159 has been a long running one and some changes from the
various patches have been incorporated into log4j 1.3. It would be
good to close that issue and to spin out any missing parts into new
bug reports.
Any other open issues that I've missed?
I've got to run, so I'm going to close out this thread. I'll start a
VOTE thread to add you as a committer when I get back.
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com>.
--- Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
> Excellent. Have you signed the Contributors License Agreement (CLA)
> found at?...
> http://www.apache.org/licenses
Yes, I believe I have.
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com>.
At 04:33 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote:
>
>--- Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>> Elias, are you
>> volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth, who has been extremely busy
>> the last couple days canvassing Bugzilla reports, may be what we need
>> to move things along.
>
>I'm volunteering.
>
>I'd like to 1.3 released within my lifetime :-)
>
Excellent. Have you signed the Contributors License Agreement (CLA)
found at?...
http://www.apache.org/licenses
From what I've seen, Elias, you have shown yourself to be both
capable and willing. As soon as you sign the CLA, you have my
nomination for committer on the Log4j project.
Make sure to read Curt's response about 1.3 -vs- 2.0.
Jake
>
>
>
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>.
On Nov 12, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Jacob Kjome wrote:
>
> Maybe its time for new blood? If existing Log4j developers can't
> put in the time necessary to move things along as fast as the
> community would like, then it might be time to accept some new
> developers from the community that are willing to keep things
> moving. Elias, are you volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth,
> who has been extremely busy the last couple days canvassing
> Bugzilla reports, may be what we need to move things along.
>
> Of course, some evidence of providing quality patches and general
> dedication are prerequisites to becoming a candidate for committer
> access to the project, as well as having been nominated by a
> committer (I'm not 100% sure of all the Apache rules for committer
> access?). Maybe some of the other committers can chime in here. I
> don't want to start nominating people before we get a consensus of
> what approach, if any, should be taken.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jake
I've personally been on deadline on a project for the last few weeks,
so I know that I have not been as responsive as I would like, but
calling the project dead seems unwarranted as we had a release with a
lot of bug fixes in October and Jacob Kjome (PMC member and
committer) and James Stauffer (contributor) have been stepping up on
answering usage questions on the mailing list. The recent flurry of
bug reports and bug report changes from Kay Abendroth, while
appreciated, is going to take a little while to digest and review
even under the best of circumstances. As far as I can tell Kay has
not been previously involved with log4j before this month and
historically the PMC has declined to vote someone in as a committer
unless they have had several months of active involvement.
As for adding new committers, any potential committer will have to
agree to the Contributors License Agreement (CLA) found at http://
www.apache.org/licenses. As some people would not feel they would
not be able to sign a CLA due to terms of their employment or just a
desire to avoid talking to their employer's legal department, I feel
that a vote for commit access is not beneficial until it is known
whether the potential committer would be willing to sign a CLA. ASF
desires CLA's from all contributors of ideas, code or documentation
to have executed a CLA which basically means that earning the history
to be considered for commit access means that you should have already
filed a CLA.
For changes on the 1.2 branch, I don't think things will ever move as
fast as some would like since the committers have to be very cautious
on what goes into a very mature and widely used library. Hopefully,
in that regard the committers are reflect the desires of the silent
majority of log4j 1.2 users who don't want their app to fail in new
and different ways even if that means it still fails in the old and
expected ways. Until recently, the 1.2 branch had been effectively
stalled for years. The recent log4j 1.2.14 knocked off 20+ bugs
that had all been languishing in Bugzilla for a very long time.
There were definitely remaining bugs filed against 1.2 that were not
addressed in 1.2.14, however I think that I killed all or at least
almost all that were low risk.
log4j 1.3 is much more open to the types of changes that can get
checked in. However, I think that the branch is effectively a dead
end as it does not address the concurrency issues that are becoming
more frequently reported and is not (and likely will never be) a drop
in replacement for log4j 1.2.
log4j 2.0 is still just an idea, but my opinion is that it is the
most effective use of my personal log4j related development efforts.
I hope to get some of the things that we have been talking about for
years together in a skeleton form real-soon-now so that we can start
working collaboratively.
Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 11/12/06, Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe its time for new blood? If existing Log4j developers can't put
> in the time necessary to move things along as fast as the community
> would like, then it might be time to accept some new developers from
> the community that are willing to keep things moving.
That's what I was thinking too. That's why I asked if there were
patches ready from a couple of people, so that we can review them for
quality and such before or during a committership vote.
> Elias, are you
> volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth, who has been extremely busy
> the last couple days canvassing Bugzilla reports, may be what we need
> to move things along.
+1.
> Of course, some evidence of providing quality patches and general
> dedication are prerequisites to becoming a candidate for committer
> access to the project, as well as having been nominated by a
> committer (I'm not 100% sure of all the Apache rules for committer
> access?). Maybe some of the other committers can chime in here. I
> don't want to start nominating people before we get a consensus of
> what approach, if any, should be taken.
A committer's gotta nominate a contributor, the PMC has to approve.
It's pretty simple in that technical regard. Different people have
different personal criteria for voting on a new committer.
Personally, for a project approaching dormancy, my criteria are lower
than usual: a few good patches, some demonstrated energy on the
mailing lists, and a good attritude.
> Thoughts?
If you've got someone you want to nominate, g'ahead.
Yoav
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com>.
--- Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com> wrote:
> Elias, are you
> volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth, who has been extremely busy
> the last couple days canvassing Bugzilla reports, may be what we need
> to move things along.
I'm volunteering.
I'd like to 1.3 released within my lifetime :-)
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com>.
Maybe its time for new blood? If existing Log4j developers can't put
in the time necessary to move things along as fast as the community
would like, then it might be time to accept some new developers from
the community that are willing to keep things moving. Elias, are you
volunteering? Users like Kay Abendroth, who has been extremely busy
the last couple days canvassing Bugzilla reports, may be what we need
to move things along.
Of course, some evidence of providing quality patches and general
dedication are prerequisites to becoming a candidate for committer
access to the project, as well as having been nominated by a
committer (I'm not 100% sure of all the Apache rules for committer
access?). Maybe some of the other committers can chime in here. I
don't want to start nominating people before we get a consensus of
what approach, if any, should be taken.
Thoughts?
Jake
At 11:26 AM 11/12/2006, you wrote:
>
>I have a few personal issues with patches, there's also a number of other
>people's patches around. You can use Bugzilla search as well as I can.
>
>--- Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> It's been quiet, I imagine others (like me) are busy. These
>> outstanding issues you're talking about, do they have patches attached
>> in Bugzilla?
>>
>> Yoav
>>
>> On 11/12/06, Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps the committers left for a sabbatical, but I was wondering if
>> Log4J
>> > development is still continuing and who is in charge.
>> >
>> > In particular, there are a lot of outstanding bugs and changes I'd like
>> to
>> > get in source control.
>> >
>> > The impression I get from reading e-mails from the list is this project
>> is
>> > effectively dead.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
>
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com>.
I have a few personal issues with patches, there's also a number of other
people's patches around. You can use Bugzilla search as well as I can.
--- Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> It's been quiet, I imagine others (like me) are busy. These
> outstanding issues you're talking about, do they have patches attached
> in Bugzilla?
>
> Yoav
>
> On 11/12/06, Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps the committers left for a sabbatical, but I was wondering if
> Log4J
> > development is still continuing and who is in charge.
> >
> > In particular, there are a lot of outstanding bugs and changes I'd like
> to
> > get in source control.
> >
> > The impression I get from reading e-mails from the list is this project
> is
> > effectively dead.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
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Re: Anybody home?
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
It's been quiet, I imagine others (like me) are busy. These
outstanding issues you're talking about, do they have patches attached
in Bugzilla?
Yoav
On 11/12/06, Elias Ross <ge...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps the committers left for a sabbatical, but I was wondering if Log4J
> development is still continuing and who is in charge.
>
> In particular, there are a lot of outstanding bugs and changes I'd like to
> get in source control.
>
> The impression I get from reading e-mails from the list is this project is
> effectively dead.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
>
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>
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