You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to l10n@openoffice.apache.org by Vladislav Stevanovic <st...@gmail.com> on 2013/08/25 18:18:20 UTC
One suggestion for easier translation
Hello,
I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
AOO.
(Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
easier?) That is good.
I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
ui, and how to find them in ui.
Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to translate
is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action. So,
somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
and is it possible to do this.
We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
much more better translation.
Regards
Stevanović Vladislav
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Yes, indeed. It's both/and, not either/or.
Best regards,
Aivaras
2013.08.25 22:44, janI rašė:
> On 25 August 2013 21:36, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That would be heaven, Jan!
>>
> but you do realize, that you still need pootle ?
>
> Chances are that you miss one or more of the 73.000 strings we have in the
> system, so you still need a pootle server (or equivalent) to show you the
> strings you forgot.
>
> While I think the UI method is good, it has a number of drawbacks.
>
> - with pootle you can (and should) make a terminology file, that ensures
> you translate e.g. "cancel" identical in all strings. I made a test for
> fun, running trough our active languages, and in the best language "cancel"
> was only translated to 2 different words (worst had 8 different words).
>
> - Its hard to monitor progress (what did I already do, what have I left).
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>>
>> 2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė:
>>
>>> On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
>>>> current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
>>>> paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project
>>>> platform).
>>>>
>>>> A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
>>>> intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient
>>>> once
>>>> it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
>>>> goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
>>>> caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.
>>>>
>>>> No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating
>>>> services"
>>>> there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
>>>> decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
>>>> in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only
>>>> to
>>>> return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>
>>>> 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>>
>>>> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
>>>>> ever !
>>>>>
>>>>> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
>>>>> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to
>>>>> maintain
>>>>> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
>>>>>
>>>>> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO
>>>>> forums,
>>>>> I will vote for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The
>>>>>> objective
>>>>>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
>>>>>> translation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far
>>> fetched
>>> to make something like that.
>>>
>>> Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
>>> just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
>>> translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application
>>> that
>>> edit a language pack.
>>>
>>> Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
>>> keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
>>> I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.
>>>
>>> However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus
>>> on
>>> other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
>>> tools to help the translation workflow.
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic
>>>>>> base on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you
>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>> surprise.
>>>>>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing &
>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> have to get contact with them first).
>>>>>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using
>>>>>>> API
>>>>>>> from Google & Bing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And about the speed stuff.
>>>>>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>>>>>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>>>>>>> xvideos for free.
>>>>>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3
>>>>>>> unstranslated,
>>>>>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>>>>>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the
>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
>>>>>>> money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is
>>>>>>> really a
>>>>>>> disaster.
>>>>>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>>>>>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
>>>>>>> leading
>>>>>>> role.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>>>>>>> attack,
>>>>>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a
>>>>>>> translator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>>>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the
>>>>>>>> PO
>>>>>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with,
>>>>>>>> say,
>>>>>>>> Virtaal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>>>>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>>>>>>> Lithuanian
>>>>>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for
>>>>>>>> syntactical
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>>>>>>> amateurish,
>>>>>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>>>>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete
>>>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>>>>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of
>>>>>>>> efficiency
>>>>>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the
>>>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>>>>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>>>>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> this sort.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> translating
>>>>>>>>> AOO.
>>>>>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make
>>>>>>>>> translation
>>>>>>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>>>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language.
>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are
>>>>>>>>> located
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>>>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>>>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>>>>>>> sentence,
>>>>>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess,
>>>>>>>>> present
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better
>>>>>>>>> translation,
>>>>>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>>>>>>> translate
>>>>>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what
>>>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>>>>>>> considering
>>>>>>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>>>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------********------------------------**
>>>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --**---------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.********
>>>>>>>> apache.org<
>>>>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@****openoffice**.apache.org<http:/**
>>>>>>>> /openoffice.apache.org <http://openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.******
>>>>>>>> **org<
>>>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.****org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org <l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**
>>>>>>>> org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --**---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org<
>>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****
>>>>>> **org<
>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>>> --**---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:36, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That would be heaven, Jan!
>
but you do realize, that you still need pootle ?
Chances are that you miss one or more of the 73.000 strings we have in the
system, so you still need a pootle server (or equivalent) to show you the
strings you forgot.
While I think the UI method is good, it has a number of drawbacks.
- with pootle you can (and should) make a terminology file, that ensures
you translate e.g. "cancel" identical in all strings. I made a test for
fun, running trough our active languages, and in the best language "cancel"
was only translated to 2 different words (worst had 8 different words).
- Its hard to monitor progress (what did I already do, what have I left).
rgds
jan I.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Aivaras
>
>
> 2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė:
>
>> On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
>>> current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
>>> paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project
>>> platform).
>>>
>>> A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
>>> intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient
>>> once
>>> it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
>>> goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
>>> caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.
>>>
>>> No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating
>>> services"
>>> there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
>>> decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
>>> in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only
>>> to
>>> return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> A.
>>>
>>> 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>
>>> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
>>>> ever !
>>>>
>>>> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
>>>> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to
>>>> maintain
>>>> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
>>>>
>>>> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO
>>>> forums,
>>>> I will vote for you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>>>>>
>>>>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The
>>>>> objective
>>>>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
>>>>> translation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far
>> fetched
>> to make something like that.
>>
>> Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
>> just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
>> translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application
>> that
>> edit a language pack.
>>
>> Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
>> keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
>> I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.
>>
>> However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus
>> on
>> other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
>> tools to help the translation workflow.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>>>
>>>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic
>>>>> base on
>>>>>
>>>>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you
>>>>>> big
>>>>>> surprise.
>>>>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing &
>>>>>> Google
>>>>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> have to get contact with them first).
>>>>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using
>>>>>> API
>>>>>> from Google & Bing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And about the speed stuff.
>>>>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>>>>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>>>>>> xvideos for free.
>>>>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3
>>>>>> unstranslated,
>>>>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>>>>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the
>>>>>> speed
>>>>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
>>>>>> money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is
>>>>>> really a
>>>>>> disaster.
>>>>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>>>>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
>>>>>> leading
>>>>>> role.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>>>>>> attack,
>>>>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a
>>>>>> translator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the
>>>>>>> PO
>>>>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with,
>>>>>>> say,
>>>>>>> Virtaal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>>>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>>>>>> Lithuanian
>>>>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for
>>>>>>> syntactical
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>>>>>> amateurish,
>>>>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>>>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete
>>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>>>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of
>>>>>>> efficiency
>>>>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the
>>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>>>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>>>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> this sort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> translating
>>>>>>>> AOO.
>>>>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make
>>>>>>>> translation
>>>>>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language.
>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are
>>>>>>>> located
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>>>>>> sentence,
>>>>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess,
>>>>>>>> present
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better
>>>>>>>> translation,
>>>>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>>>>>> translate
>>>>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what
>>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>>>>>> considering
>>>>>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------********------------------------**
>>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --**---------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.********
>>>>>>> apache.org<
>>>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@****openoffice**.apache.org<http:/**
>>>>>>> /openoffice.apache.org <http://openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.******
>>>>>>> **org<
>>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.****org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org <l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**
>>>>>>> org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --**---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org<
>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>> >
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****
>>>>> **org<
>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>> --**---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> >
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:41, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In fact, when discussing about this, we dont need to update or reprogram
> pootle for anything.
> why?
>
> as I have said about taking screenshots, then past the link to the comment
> box.
> in my language.
> then, the moderator such as Jan, will copy the content of my comment
> box'content (contains the link to the picture) to all the rest of the other
> languages.
>
> the thing in here, is the "copy" in multiple. Can we do this Jan?
>
Please have a look at the po file definition, using pictures is not a
pootle restriction, the po files only define text in comments. And copying
po files can be done by anyone.
rgds
jan I.
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
Suddenly, I think about the bandwith.
With such a bandwith like that, google picasa service is a good choice to
start: free, unlimited bandwith (with the usage just from L10n team).
Even more, we will take not only single sreenshot to each entry.
We could put for example.
The screenshot for Format Dialog is 10, put it in one, paste the link.
This solution will cause less the "copying feature".
Well, this is more interesting!
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
In fact, when discussing about this, we dont need to update or reprogram
pootle for anything.
why?
as I have said about taking screenshots, then past the link to the comment
box.
in my language.
then, the moderator such as Jan, will copy the content of my comment
box'content (contains the link to the picture) to all the rest of the other
languages.
the thing in here, is the "copy" in multiple. Can we do this Jan?
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
That would be heaven, Jan!
Best regards,
Aivaras
2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė:
> On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
>> current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
>> paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project
>> platform).
>>
>> A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
>> intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient once
>> it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
>> goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
>> caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.
>>
>> No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating services"
>> there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
>> decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
>> in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only to
>> return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> A.
>>
>> 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>
>>> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
>>> ever !
>>>
>>> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
>>> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
>>> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
>>>
>>> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
>>> I will vote for you.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
>>>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>>>>
>>>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
>>>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
>>>> translation.
>>>>
> Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far fetched
> to make something like that.
>
> Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
> just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
> translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application that
> edit a language pack.
>
> Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
> keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
> I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.
>
> However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus on
> other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
> tools to help the translation workflow.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Aivaras
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>>
>>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
>>>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
>>>>> you
>>>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
>>>>> surprise.
>>>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing &
>>>>> Google
>>>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
>>>>> have to get contact with them first).
>>>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
>>>>> from Google & Bing.
>>>>>
>>>>> And about the speed stuff.
>>>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>>>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>>>>> xvideos for free.
>>>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
>>>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>>>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
>>>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
>>>>> money.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is
>>>>> really a
>>>>> disaster.
>>>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>>>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
>>>>> leading
>>>>> role.
>>>>>
>>>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>>>>> attack,
>>>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a
>>>>> translator
>>>>>
>>>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the
>>>>>> PO
>>>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with,
>>>>>> say,
>>>>>> Virtaal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
>>>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
>>>>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>>>>> Lithuanian
>>>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>>>>> amateurish,
>>>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete
>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
>>>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of
>>>>>> efficiency
>>>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the
>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
>>>>>> this sort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>>>>> translating
>>>>>>> AOO.
>>>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>>>>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>>>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are
>>>>>>> located
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>>>>> sentence,
>>>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>>>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>>>>> translate
>>>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what
>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>>>>> considering
>>>>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --**---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org<
>>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****
>>>>>> **org<
>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>>> --**---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
Sharing an idea, discuss it is a good way to cooperate.
We work for volunteer, and that's the beauty of it.
Sharing the idea about this become more interesting and with this, I can
even join in the process of Po Edit.
You shouldnt limit the idea exchanging about the translation progress.
That's the basic rule to apply, not only to translator, but also
maintainers and moderators.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:58 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 25 August 2013 21:53, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > the link, just the link to the comment box.
> > the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict
> the
> > link type.
> > besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need
> that.
> > we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
> >
>
> If you use IRC #dev.openoffice.org, you could exchange ideas much faster
> and not filling the inbox of all subscribers to this channel.
>
> just an idea.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
> Ps. I dont know if you have been told, but we have a series of introduction
> modules, which explains how we operate with mailing lists, IRC etc.
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
> > > >
> > > no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as
> comments.
> > >
> > > rgds
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
> > > > > Here again is my plan:
> > > > > 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste
> > to
> > > > > comment box
> > > > > 2. Do it with one language.
> > > > > 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:53, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the link, just the link to the comment box.
> the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict the
> link type.
> besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need that.
> we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
>
If you use IRC #dev.openoffice.org, you could exchange ideas much faster
and not filling the inbox of all subscribers to this channel.
just an idea.
rgds
jan I.
Ps. I dont know if you have been told, but we have a series of introduction
modules, which explains how we operate with mailing lists, IRC etc.
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
> > >
> > no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as comments.
> >
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
> > > > Here again is my plan:
> > > > 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste
> to
> > > > comment box
> > > > 2. Do it with one language.
> > > > 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Exactly, it's all there, it's just disconnected.
1) Online connection of AAO to Pootle,
2) In-place editing of menu descriptors in AAO,
3) Online communication of edit changes back to Pootle.
4) Done.
Best wishes,
Aivaras
2013.08.26 00:31, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
> Hello,
> Is there chance to using what we have already on Pootle: location.
>
> (Example:
> Location:
> ParaPropertyPanel.src#RID_SVXSTR_GRAPHICS_DESCRIPTION_0.string.text)
>
> How? Maybe with some extension. When I want to translate I will open my
> AOO. Than I will go on Pootle. If there is some problems with translating,
> I will click on button (on Pootle), near from problematic word. That will
> activate this extension, sendig to him this location. Extension will (if it
> is possible) processed this string (location) in that manner that will run
> action and open exactly place in AOO in my computer, just that I can see
> where is that location in UI... Even closer location will be fine (e.g.
> attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box; it would be enough for me if
> I can see desired dialog box).
> If it is possible, we already have data base of all words/sentences with
> written locations. It is already on Pootle.
>
> Regards,
> Vladisav Stevanović
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Vladislav Stevanovic <st...@gmail.com>.
Hello,
Is there chance to using what we have already on Pootle: location.
(Example:
Location:
ParaPropertyPanel.src#RID_SVXSTR_GRAPHICS_DESCRIPTION_0.string.text)
How? Maybe with some extension. When I want to translate I will open my
AOO. Than I will go on Pootle. If there is some problems with translating,
I will click on button (on Pootle), near from problematic word. That will
activate this extension, sendig to him this location. Extension will (if it
is possible) processed this string (location) in that manner that will run
action and open exactly place in AOO in my computer, just that I can see
where is that location in UI... Even closer location will be fine (e.g.
attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box; it would be enough for me if
I can see desired dialog box).
If it is possible, we already have data base of all words/sentences with
written locations. It is already on Pootle.
Regards,
Vladisav Stevanović
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Those sequences are already there, aren't they?
Just find an elegant and simple way for translators to (1) see them (2)
while translating.
2013.08.25 23:29, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> Using Sequences will be hell.
> Why?
> For example, that would be disaster for maintainers/moderators.
> They have to work very hard for those strings.
> As Jan has said, 75k words, well, this is enormous stuff.
> With the suggestion such as sequences in text, that is not just hard, it's
> imposible to do that.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
Using Sequences will be hell.
Why?
For example, that would be disaster for maintainers/moderators.
They have to work very hard for those strings.
As Jan has said, 75k words, well, this is enormous stuff.
With the suggestion such as sequences in text, that is not just hard, it's
imposible to do that.
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
If it can be stated in the sequential fashion of "A > B > C > D", that
is more than enough to solve the issue of translating disconnected words.
A.
2013.08.25 23:20, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> This displaying of txt file for table is ok, but with just simple situation.
> For example, we will get more complicated cases such as the inside
> attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box.
> Well, this will kill the idea of txt file as a table displaying.
> So far, pictures is the shortest way.
>
> The thing in here, that, Po edit doesnt accept this kind of action.
> We can make a request about on going feature to the Po-Edit developer.
> I translated Po-Edit in the early version but then I discontinued.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> As far as I'm concern, we don't need pictures that much. It could simple
>> simple table of words retaining the order of words as they occur in the
>> menu dropdown lists.
>>
>> Say:
>>
>> File
>>
>>
>>
>> New
>>
>>
>>
>> Text Document Cntr+N
>>
>>
>> Spreadsheet
>>
>>
>> Drawing
>>
>>
>> [etc.]
>>
>> Open Cntr+O
>>
>> Recent Documents
>>
>>
>>
>> My Document
>>
>>
>> This would allow me to quickly determine how to properly correlate the
>> words "File," "New," and "Text Document."
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>> PS: I hope you can see the table.
>>
>> 2013.08.25 22:53, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>
>> the link, just the link to the comment box.
>>> the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict
>>> the
>>> link type.
>>> besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need
>>> that.
>>> we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
>>>>> no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as
>>>> comments.
>>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
>>>>>> Here again is my plan:
>>>>>> 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
>>>>>> comment box
>>>>>> 2. Do it with one language.
>>>>>> 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
This displaying of txt file for table is ok, but with just simple situation.
For example, we will get more complicated cases such as the inside
attribute from drop-down list in a dialog box.
Well, this will kill the idea of txt file as a table displaying.
So far, pictures is the shortest way.
The thing in here, that, Po edit doesnt accept this kind of action.
We can make a request about on going feature to the Po-Edit developer.
I translated Po-Edit in the early version but then I discontinued.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
<as...@gmail.com>wrote:
> As far as I'm concern, we don't need pictures that much. It could simple
> simple table of words retaining the order of words as they occur in the
> menu dropdown lists.
>
> Say:
>
> File
>
>
>
> New
>
>
>
> Text Document Cntr+N
>
>
> Spreadsheet
>
>
> Drawing
>
>
> [etc.]
>
> Open Cntr+O
>
> Recent Documents
>
>
>
> My Document
>
>
> This would allow me to quickly determine how to properly correlate the
> words "File," "New," and "Text Document."
>
> Best regards,
>
> Aivaras
>
> PS: I hope you can see the table.
>
> 2013.08.25 22:53, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>
> the link, just the link to the comment box.
>> the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict
>> the
>> link type.
>> besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need
>> that.
>> we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
>>>>
>>>> no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as
>>> comments.
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
>>>>> Here again is my plan:
>>>>> 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
>>>>> comment box
>>>>> 2. Do it with one language.
>>>>> 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
As far as I'm concern, we don't need pictures that much. It could simple
simple table of words retaining the order of words as they occur in the
menu dropdown lists.
Say:
File
New
Text Document Cntr+N
Spreadsheet
Drawing
[etc.]
Open Cntr+O
Recent Documents
My Document
This would allow me to quickly determine how to properly correlate the
words "File," "New," and "Text Document."
Best regards,
Aivaras
PS: I hope you can see the table.
2013.08.25 22:53, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> the link, just the link to the comment box.
> the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict the
> link type.
> besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need that.
> we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
>>>
>> no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as comments.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
>>>> Here again is my plan:
>>>> 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
>>>> comment box
>>>> 2. Do it with one language.
>>>> 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
>>>>
>>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
the link, just the link to the comment box.
the comment box doesnt restrict the type of text, so it doesnt restrict the
link type.
besides, we dont need feature of displaying picture. no, we dont need that.
we just need the link as a text file on the comment box.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:50 AM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
> >
> no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as comments.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
> > > Here again is my plan:
> > > 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
> > > comment box
> > > 2. Do it with one language.
> > > 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:48, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
>
no you need a different system. PO files cannot have images as comments.
rgds
jan I.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
> > Here again is my plan:
> > 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
> > comment box
> > 2. Do it with one language.
> > 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
> >
> >
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
And we dont need any changes in Pootles!
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
> Here again is my plan:
> 1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
> comment box
> 2. Do it with one language.
> 3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
The discussion will be gone in a melting iceberg.
Here again is my plan:
1. Taking screenshot, upload it to XYZ service, get the link, paste to
comment box
2. Do it with one language.
3. Copying multiple to the rest languages.
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Vladislav Stevanovic wrote:
> How I can find in KeyIDbuild if I have only "8+>ddj"? With this I still
> have no clear path. Maybe I miss something...
This is the reason why KeyID is not the perfect solution. You still need
to click around and find the string in the KeyID build, by checking all
menus (or all the possibly relevant ones)...
Regards,
Andrea.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Vladislav Stevanovic <st...@gmail.com>.
>The result, if it doesn't crash your browser (huge file) contains the key:
"8+>ddj"
>5) I can now find this in the KeyID build and know exactly what I am
translating.
How I can find in KeyIDbuild if I have only "8+>ddj"? With this I still
have no clear path. Maybe I miss something...
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, Andrea!
That is exactly what I'm doing. It's nice to have it, given the fact
that no such aid was available just a short while ago. Nonetheless, it's
cumbersome and time-consuming.
I am confident a more elegant solution can be thought out.
Best wishes,
Aivaras
2013.08.26 00:56, Andrea Pescetti rašė:
> Ricardo Berlasso wrote:
>> IMO, a way to tell where the string is located on the UI (the steps to
>> arrive there) will be more than enough... but I don't think that even
>> such
>> thing will be easy to obtain.
>
> What we do have available at the moment (I write this for the new
> volunteers) is the so-called "KeyID Build". The procedure is still
> cumbersome and I hope to fix KeyID in time for the next snapshot, but
> more or less this is what I would do to retrieve context:
>
> 1) I install a KeyID version. See a screenshot at
> http://imagebin.org/268759
> It looks incredibly ugly and must still be prepared for 4.0.1, but it
> provides a unique ID for each string.
>
> 2) Imagine I have to translate the word "Default":
> https://translate.apache.org/it/aoo40/translate.html#unit=12866249
> I want to find where it is.
>
> 3) On the left, I see in "Location": STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARD
>
> 4) I open OpenGrok and search it in the "kid" file:
>
> http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/search?q=STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARD&defs=&refs=&path=%2Faoo-trunk%2Fextras%2Fl10n%2Fsource%2Fkid%2F&hist=&project=aoo-trunk
>
>
> The result, if it doesn't crash your browser (huge file) contains the
> key: "8+>ddj"
>
> 5) I can now find this in the KeyID build and know exactly what I am
> translating.
>
> Very tedious, but works. Of course, all the possible improvements you
> are discussing here, especially screenshots or langpack editing, would
> be awesome.
>
> By the way, if we manage to load "kid" into Pootle after the SDF for
> it has been updated, steps 3 and 4 can be omitted: translators will be
> able to setup their environment so that they see both "Deafult" and
> "8+>ddj|Default" immediately, so they can open the KeyID version and
> look it up.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Ricardo Berlasso wrote:
> IMO, a way to tell where the string is located on the UI (the steps to
> arrive there) will be more than enough... but I don't think that even such
> thing will be easy to obtain.
What we do have available at the moment (I write this for the new
volunteers) is the so-called "KeyID Build". The procedure is still
cumbersome and I hope to fix KeyID in time for the next snapshot, but
more or less this is what I would do to retrieve context:
1) I install a KeyID version. See a screenshot at
http://imagebin.org/268759
It looks incredibly ugly and must still be prepared for 4.0.1, but it
provides a unique ID for each string.
2) Imagine I have to translate the word "Default":
https://translate.apache.org/it/aoo40/translate.html#unit=12866249
I want to find where it is.
3) On the left, I see in "Location": STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARD
4) I open OpenGrok and search it in the "kid" file:
http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/search?q=STR_POOLPAGE_STANDARD&defs=&refs=&path=%2Faoo-trunk%2Fextras%2Fl10n%2Fsource%2Fkid%2F&hist=&project=aoo-trunk
The result, if it doesn't crash your browser (huge file) contains the
key: "8+>ddj"
5) I can now find this in the KeyID build and know exactly what I am
translating.
Very tedious, but works. Of course, all the possible improvements you
are discussing here, especially screenshots or langpack editing, would
be awesome.
By the way, if we manage to load "kid" into Pootle after the SDF for it
has been updated, steps 3 and 4 can be omitted: translators will be able
to setup their environment so that they see both "Deafult" and
"8+>ddj|Default" immediately, so they can open the KeyID version and
look it up.
Regards,
Andrea.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Ricardo Berlasso <rg...@gmail.com>.
2013/8/25 Mr. Phan Anh <pp...@gmail.com>
> With the comment box, we dont need anything, just paste the link to the
> comment box.
> The attributes of comment box is text.
> The thing in here, is , we dont need the displaying images feature from
> Pootle.
> If the translator wants to see the image, copy the link, paste to another
> tab of the browser!
> That's it.
>
> I didnt say about: displaying image feature in Pootle.
>
4.0 had several changes on the UI, some really big (new features like the
sidebar) and other small (new layout for cross references). While a
collection of screenshots seems tempting, in my opinion will be a hell to
maintain. I agree that the "context problem" is a real problem (faced it
several times translating to Spanish), but a screenshot database does not
seems the right solution, even if it were possible to figure out how to
link to it: we are not talking about hundred (which would be already an
almost impossible feat), but about *thousands* of strings here...
IMO, a way to tell where the string is located on the UI (the steps to
arrive there) will be more than enough... but I don't think that even such
thing will be easy to obtain.
Regards
Ricardo
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
With the comment box, we dont need anything, just paste the link to the
comment box.
The attributes of comment box is text.
The thing in here, is , we dont need the displaying images feature from
Pootle.
If the translator wants to see the image, copy the link, paste to another
tab of the browser!
That's it.
I didnt say about: displaying image feature in Pootle.
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
That is exactly what I am doing. What I'm missing is UI context (as a
carrier of additional semantics) for the proper translation of discrete
expressions. That's what it is all about. As a side note, I started with
Poedit and moved on to Virtaal.
A.
2013.08.25 22:49, janI rašė:
> On 25 August 2013 21:44, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate back
>> the language data to the remote server.
>>
>> If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also
>> could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just a
>> complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a much
>> more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.
>>
> please take a short time, to look how po files are defined and work. You
> can already today download po files and work offline, whenever I do a
> bigger translation its done offline with poedit.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>> 2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>
>> This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!
>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:44, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate back
> the language data to the remote server.
>
> If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also
> could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just a
> complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a much
> more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.
>
please take a short time, to look how po files are defined and work. You
can already today download po files and work offline, whenever I do a
bigger translation its done offline with poedit.
rgds
jan I.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Aivaras
>
> 2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>
> This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
If it is done locally, one should think of a procedure to communicate
back the language data to the remote server.
If it is done via a remote UI to begin with, just like Pootle, it also
could (could it?) act like Pootle. The way I would look at it: it's just
a complimentary interface to perform a set of translating chores in a
much more streamlined way. Aootle, so to speak.
Best wishes,
Aivaras
2013.08.25 22:32, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
This would be a total revoulutionary action and vision!!!
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
So, what about, for example, me, will volunteer in taking sreenshots.
For example, screenshot for table menu, format dialog....
Then, I will upload those pictures to a site, take back the links to those
ones.
Then, I will send to you a text file that contains those link.
Then, you will insert links as comment.
How about that?
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
> current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
> paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project
> platform).
>
> A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
> intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient once
> it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its
> goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering
> caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.
>
> No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating services"
> there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
> decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done
> in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only to
> return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!
>
> Best regards,
>
> A.
>
> 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>
>> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
>> ever !
>>
>> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
>> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
>> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
>>
>> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
>> I will vote for you.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
>>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>>>
>>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
>>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
>>> translation.
>>>
>>
Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far fetched
to make something like that.
Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but
just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new
translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application that
edit a language pack.
Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches
keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works,
I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO.
However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus on
other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on
tools to help the translation workflow.
rgds
jan I.
>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Aivaras
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>>
>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
>>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>>>
>>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source,
>>>> you
>>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
>>>> surprise.
>>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing &
>>>> Google
>>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
>>>> have to get contact with them first).
>>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
>>>> from Google & Bing.
>>>>
>>>> And about the speed stuff.
>>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>>>> xvideos for free.
>>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
>>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
>>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>>>
>>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>>>
>>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and
>>>> money.
>>>>
>>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is
>>>> really a
>>>> disaster.
>>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>>>
>>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the
>>>> leading
>>>> role.
>>>>
>>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>>>> attack,
>>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a
>>>> translator
>>>>
>>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the
>>>>> PO
>>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with,
>>>>> say,
>>>>> Virtaal.
>>>>>
>>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
>>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
>>>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>>>
>>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>>>> Lithuanian
>>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical
>>>>> and
>>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not
>>>>> only
>>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form
>>>>> for
>>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>>>
>>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender,
>>>>> and
>>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>>>> amateurish,
>>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>>>
>>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete
>>>>> linguistic
>>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
>>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of
>>>>> efficiency
>>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the
>>>>> willingness
>>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>>>
>>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
>>>>> this sort.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at
>>>>> the
>>>>> moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Aivaras
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>>>> translating
>>>>>> AOO.
>>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>>>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are
>>>>>> located
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>>>> sentence,
>>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>>>> translate
>>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what
>>>>>> action.
>>>>>> So,
>>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>>>> considering
>>>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>>>>>> --**
>>>>>>
>>>>> --**---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org<
>>>>> http://apache.org**>
>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>>> >
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****
>>>>> **org<
>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> <
>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>> --**---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> >
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
This email exchanging part and conversation is interesting.
I like to discuss in this way, it likes opening a whole new vision and door
of concept.
Thank bro.
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of
current programming practices and quitely likely against the current
paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project
platform).
A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even
intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient
once it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion
for its goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human
suffering caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful.
No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating
services" there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete
decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be
done in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D
only to return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A!
Best regards,
A.
2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
> ever !
>
> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
>
> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
> I will vote for you.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>>
>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
>> translation.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>>
>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>>
>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>>
>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
>>> surprise.
>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & Google
>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
>>> have to get contact with them first).
>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
>>> from Google & Bing.
>>>
>>> And about the speed stuff.
>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>>> xvideos for free.
>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>>
>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>>
>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.
>>>
>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is really a
>>> disaster.
>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>>
>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
>>> role.
>>>
>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>>> attack,
>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>>
>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
>>>> Virtaal.
>>>>
>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>>
>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
>>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>>
>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>>> Lithuanian
>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical
>>>> and
>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>>
>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>>> amateurish,
>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>>
>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>>
>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
>>>> this sort.
>>>>
>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at
>>>> the
>>>> moment.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Aivaras
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>>> translating
>>>>> AOO.
>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located
>>>>> in
>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>>> sentence,
>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present
>>>>> and
>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>>> translate
>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action.
>>>>> So,
>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>>> considering
>>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will
>>>>> get
>>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>>> --**---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea
ever !
But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project.
The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain
when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :)
But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums,
I will vote for you.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
<as...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the
> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
>
> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
> translation.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Aivaras
>
>
> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
>
>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>>
>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
>> surprise.
>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & Google
>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
>> have to get contact with them first).
>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
>> from Google & Bing.
>>
>> And about the speed stuff.
>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
>> xvideos for free.
>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>>
>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>>
>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.
>>
>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is really a
>> disaster.
>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>>
>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
>> role.
>>
>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart
>> attack,
>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
>> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>>
>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
>>> Virtaal.
>>>
>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>>
>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
>>> there is no UI to look at!
>>>
>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
>>> Lithuanian
>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical
>>> and
>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>>
>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
>>> amateurish,
>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>>
>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>>
>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
>>> this sort.
>>>
>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at
>>> the
>>> moment.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Aivaras
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for
>>>> translating
>>>> AOO.
>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>>>> easier?) That is good.
>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located
>>>> in
>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or
>>>> sentence,
>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present
>>>> and
>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>>> translate
>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action.
>>>> So,
>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in
>>>> considering
>>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will
>>>> get
>>>> much more better translation.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**
>>> --**---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org>
>>> <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> >
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org<
>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l1...@openoffice.apache.org>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing
the Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would!
As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective
here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of
translation.
Best regards,
Aivaras
2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė:
> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
>
> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
> surprise.
> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & Google
> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
> have to get contact with them first).
> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
> from Google & Bing.
>
> And about the speed stuff.
> Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
> xvideos for free.
> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
>
> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
>
> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.
>
> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is really a
> disaster.
> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
>
> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
> role.
>
> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart attack,
> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
> <as...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>>
>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
>> Virtaal.
>>
>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>>
>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
>> there is no UI to look at!
>>
>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native Lithuanian
>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical and
>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>>
>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and amateurish,
>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>>
>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>>
>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
>> this sort.
>>
>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at the
>> moment.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Aivaras
>>
>>
>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>>
>> Hello,
>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
>>> AOO.
>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>>> easier?) That is good.
>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
>>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>>> translate
>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action.
>>> So,
>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
>>> and is it possible to do this.
>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
>>> much more better translation.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on
the percentage of the words/phrases/characters.
Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, you
can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big
surprise.
Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & Google
inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you
have to get contact with them first).
Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API
from Google & Bing.
And about the speed stuff.
Yeah, this is really a hell for us.
When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as
xvideos for free.
But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated,
that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file
have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed
after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting.
Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website.
So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and money.
At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is really a
disaster.
Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though.
Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good.
But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the leading
role.
>From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart attack,
honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis
<as...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
> has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
>
> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
> Virtaal.
>
> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
>
> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
> there is no UI to look at!
>
> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native Lithuanian
> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical and
> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not only
> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form for
> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
>
> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and amateurish,
> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad
> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
>
> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete linguistic
> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a
> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the
> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of efficiency
> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the willingness
> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
>
> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
> this sort.
>
> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at the
> moment.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Aivaras
>
>
> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
>
> Hello,
>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
>> AOO.
>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
>> easier?) That is good.
>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
>> ui, and how to find them in ui.
>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to
>> translate
>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action.
>> So,
>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
>> and is it possible to do this.
>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
>> much more better translation.
>>
>> Regards
>> Stevanović Vladislav
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l1...@openoffice.apache.org>
>
>
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by Aivaras Stepukonis <as...@gmail.com>.
I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a translator
has to go through to get his/her job done properly.
I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the PO
file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, say,
Virtaal.
For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go.
The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e.
decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in
whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that
there is no UI to look at!
If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native
Lithuanian (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for
syntactical and grammatical context is even greater because one has to
get right not only the concept of the original term but also the target
grammatical form for that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few...
Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, and
case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and
amateurish, pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all
the sad consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation...
The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete
linguistic elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to
have a translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to
edit the words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of
efficiency and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the
willingness of AOO end users to opt for the native UI.
A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic
elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be
surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of
this sort.
These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at
the moment.
Best wishes,
Aivaras
2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė:
> Hello,
> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for translating
> AOO.
> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation
> easier?) That is good.
> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My
> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help if
> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are located in
> ui, and how to find them in ui.
> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count
> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or sentence,
> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present and
> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation,
> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to translate
> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what action. So,
> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in considering
> and is it possible to do this.
> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will get
> much more better translation.
>
> Regards
> Stevanović Vladislav
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: One suggestion for easier translation
Posted by "Mr. Phan Anh" <pp...@gmail.com>.
I love this idea. But through my experience in translations, both on
Transifex and couple of projects, this hasn't been discussed about before.
The way to do this is under each entry / important entry / misunderstood
entry / confusing entry, there would be a link to the image in comment box.
If this is true, and supported by the community, wow, would be a
revolutionary in translation.
Because of showing images/sreenshots for terms, not only good for
translation, but it's also better in reviewing.
But.
When this becomes real, at least 500 hundred pictures (with the progress of
translation in AOO 4x).
A lot of people have discussed about this feature, some translators even
suggested that "reeditting the code of pootle server to display image in
the comment box".
Well, this is a step further, at this time for Pootle Server and on their
plan, Pootle Developers Group show no interest in this kind of ideas.