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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by bj...@yahoo.com on 2005/08/04 15:17:52 UTC
[OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Hi Gurus,
Sorry for the OT.
I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping (hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please let me know.
Thanks,
Bob
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RE: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by David Thielen <da...@windward.net>.
Hi;
I'm still a newbie to JSF so take this with a grain of salt. JSF is a lot
like the Mac - you have to do things it's way but if you can fit within it's
paradigm, it works very very well.
- dave
David Thielen
303-499-2544
www.windwardreports.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Husted [mailto:ted.husted@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 4:38 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
A good starting point would be Mastering JavaServer Faces, which does
a good job of comparing Struts, JSF, and Swing in the context of
introducing JSF.
*
http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=
278
My favorite book for Struts newbies is Struts for Dummies
*
http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=
278
Pro Spring has some nice chapters on Hibernate and iBATIS, as well as
excellent coverage of both Spring and Spring MVC.
* http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594614/apachesoftwar-20/
Pro Sping is a huge book, but you don't have to read it all. :)
After that, my advice would be to design a test workflow of your own
that represents some miniscule piece of your application. Maybe a
single find/list/view/edit workflow for the simplest entity you are
likely to have, and try implementing it with the likely suspects.
If your project hasn't selected a source repository, Subversion is
about the best there is :)
*
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131855182/apachesoftwar-20/
And, just to round things out, my favorite IDEs are still by JetBrains
* http://www.jetbrains.com/
HTH, Ted.
On 8/4/05, bjester_2004@yahoo.com <bj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Gurus,
>
> Sorry for the OT.
> I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web
pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a
dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming
up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This
project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping
(hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please
let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
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Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>.
A good starting point would be Mastering JavaServer Faces, which does
a good job of comparing Struts, JSF, and Swing in the context of
introducing JSF.
* http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=278
My favorite book for Struts newbies is Struts for Dummies
* http://opensource.atlassian.com/confluence/oss/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=278
Pro Spring has some nice chapters on Hibernate and iBATIS, as well as
excellent coverage of both Spring and Spring MVC.
* http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1590594614/apachesoftwar-20/
Pro Sping is a huge book, but you don't have to read it all. :)
After that, my advice would be to design a test workflow of your own
that represents some miniscule piece of your application. Maybe a
single find/list/view/edit workflow for the simplest entity you are
likely to have, and try implementing it with the likely suspects.
If your project hasn't selected a source repository, Subversion is
about the best there is :)
* http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131855182/apachesoftwar-20/
And, just to round things out, my favorite IDEs are still by JetBrains
* http://www.jetbrains.com/
HTH, Ted.
On 8/4/05, bjester_2004@yahoo.com <bj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Gurus,
>
> Sorry for the OT.
> I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping (hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
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Re: {Spam?} Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by GR...@intellicare.com.
So is anybody using struts-faces and trying to integrate struts with jsf?
Or is that project kind of abandoned now..?
Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
08/05/2005 12:18 PM
Please respond to
"Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
To
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{Spam?} Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
On 8/5/05, David Thielen <da...@windward.net> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> Ok, that brings up this question. If we are creating a portlet and it
has to
> run on every portal, is Shale+JSF as easy to install and portable as
just
> JSF?
Not yet ... but that's a definite goal. There are still some spots
where the code is specific to the servlet API which need to be shaken
out, but I plan to do that *after* a 1.0.0 milestone release.
> We're willing to live with more pain during development to make the
> final product as easy as possible to install and totally portable.
>
Part of the challenge here is that the JSF 1.0 spec doesn't go quite
all the way towards seamless portability across JSR-168 compliant
environments. I've used the jsf-portlet bridge code that is available
in the JSF RI's java.net project with good success, but primarily with
Sun's tools (and pluto). And the MyFaces integration with portlets is
"similar but different", so it'll take a bit of work at the framework
level to settle all this out.
> And same question on Spring?
Spring integration is a breeze ... and is a feature I didn't mention.
If you include Spring in your app, Shale has an adapter that makes the
managed beans facility automatically use Spring's bean factory if
there is no managed beans definition, so you can use Spring to create
and configure all your instances (if you like). And you can use
standard JSF value binding and method binding expressions to trigger
creation of Spring beans, too.
> Thanks - dave
Craig
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Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 8/5/05, David Thielen <da...@windward.net> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> Ok, that brings up this question. If we are creating a portlet and it has to
> run on every portal, is Shale+JSF as easy to install and portable as just
> JSF?
Not yet ... but that's a definite goal. There are still some spots
where the code is specific to the servlet API which need to be shaken
out, but I plan to do that *after* a 1.0.0 milestone release.
> We're willing to live with more pain during development to make the
> final product as easy as possible to install and totally portable.
>
Part of the challenge here is that the JSF 1.0 spec doesn't go quite
all the way towards seamless portability across JSR-168 compliant
environments. I've used the jsf-portlet bridge code that is available
in the JSF RI's java.net project with good success, but primarily with
Sun's tools (and pluto). And the MyFaces integration with portlets is
"similar but different", so it'll take a bit of work at the framework
level to settle all this out.
> And same question on Spring?
Spring integration is a breeze ... and is a feature I didn't mention.
If you include Spring in your app, Shale has an adapter that makes the
managed beans facility automatically use Spring's bean factory if
there is no managed beans definition, so you can use Spring to create
and configure all your instances (if you like). And you can use
standard JSF value binding and method binding expressions to trigger
creation of Spring beans, too.
> Thanks - dave
Craig
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Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
Struts and JSF are apples and oranges. Read Rod Johnson on this.
Putting them together in an application will inevitably lead to
someone who does know that is going on to realizing that you do not.
On 8/5/05, David Thielen <da...@windward.net> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> Ok, that brings up this question. If we are creating a portlet and it has to
> run on every portal, is Shale+JSF as easy to install and portable as just
> JSF? We're willing to live with more pain during development to make the
> final product as easy as possible to install and totally portable.
>
> And same question on Spring?
>
> Thanks - dave
>
>
> David Thielen
> 303-499-2544
> www.windwardreports.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:03 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
>
> On 8/4/05, bjester_2004@yahoo.com <bj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi Gurus,
> >
> > Sorry for the OT.
> > I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web
> pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a
> dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming
> up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This
> project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping
> (hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please
> let me know.
> >
>
> It should be noted, of course, that a choice to use Shale would also
> necessarily be a choice to use JSF ... Shale assumes that JSF is there
> and adds value around the edges (view helper, dialogs, Commons
> Validator, Tiles, alternative rendering technologies, remoting
> support, ...). All the stuff you learn about JSF, though, is equally
> usable with JSF+Shale.
>
> http://struts.apache.org/shale/
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
> Craig
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
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RE: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by David Thielen <da...@windward.net>.
Hi;
Ok, that brings up this question. If we are creating a portlet and it has to
run on every portal, is Shale+JSF as easy to install and portable as just
JSF? We're willing to live with more pain during development to make the
final product as easy as possible to install and totally portable.
And same question on Spring?
Thanks - dave
David Thielen
303-499-2544
www.windwardreports.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 10:03 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
On 8/4/05, bjester_2004@yahoo.com <bj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Gurus,
>
> Sorry for the OT.
> I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web
pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a
dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming
up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This
project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping
(hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please
let me know.
>
It should be noted, of course, that a choice to use Shale would also
necessarily be a choice to use JSF ... Shale assumes that JSF is there
and adds value around the edges (view helper, dialogs, Commons
Validator, Tiles, alternative rendering technologies, remoting
support, ...). All the stuff you learn about JSF, though, is equally
usable with JSF+Shale.
http://struts.apache.org/shale/
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [OT] What to choose: Struts, JSF, Shale or Spring
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 8/4/05, bjester_2004@yahoo.com <bj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Gurus,
>
> Sorry for the OT.
> I have been working on jsp/servlets for a last four years to create web pages. Now that I have found out there is more out there, I am in a dilemma. Which one should I learn and why? I have a big web project coming up and was wondering which of these I should choose to work on. This project needs good validation and object relational or sql mapping (hibernate or ibatis). If you have any books or site links to name, please let me know.
>
It should be noted, of course, that a choice to use Shale would also
necessarily be a choice to use JSF ... Shale assumes that JSF is there
and adds value around the edges (view helper, dialogs, Commons
Validator, Tiles, alternative rendering technologies, remoting
support, ...). All the stuff you learn about JSF, though, is equally
usable with JSF+Shale.
http://struts.apache.org/shale/
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
Craig
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