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Posted to server-dev@james.apache.org by Danny Angus <Da...@slc.co.uk> on 2005/09/15 10:13:47 UTC
jars in cvs/svn
I **really** don't think we should have derby jars in svn
We can document the required version(s) and zip/tar them into
distributions, but please not more jars in svn.
d.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, I think we did this once before. It was actually what I had in
mind, I don't think Maven is right for James, but that doesn't make it
a Bad Thing, we use it very sucessfully at work. :-)
d.
On 19/09/05, Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I try to stay clear from advocating Maven but you can also use ANT to
> download JARs from a remote repository ... :-)
>
> check out
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/ws-xmlrpc/build.xml?rev=1.33
> and have a closer look at "copy-deps" target
>
> Cheers,
>
> Siegfried Goeschl
>
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
> >On 19/09/05, Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>We could use maven, if we wanted to.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Maybe this will convince you not to do it :) :
> >>http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=maven_refresher_course
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Sorry mate, unsubstantiated criticisms directed at the developers from
> >a guy who has to vent bile by his own definition don't really compete
> >with experience.
> >
> >People who don't like Maven generally don't like it because they can't
> >be bothered to use it, don't work well in a structured enviroment, and
> >can't stand to have their failings highlighted by a machine.
> >
> >Maven may not be pretty, but it works. It helps to manage
> >dependancies, documentation, and quality standards, and can save a
> >whole load of time and effort being wasted doing things by hand.
> >
> >I guess you'd rather write your own variation of an ant build.xml
> >differently for every project, manage dependancies in hand written
> >documentation and store your jars in cvs just in case you want to do
> >something "special".
> >In my experience the special thing becomes the weakness in your project.
> >
> >d.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Siegfried Goeschl <si...@it20one.at>.
Hi folks,
I try to stay clear from advocating Maven but you can also use ANT to
download JARs from a remote repository ... :-)
check out
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/ws-xmlrpc/build.xml?rev=1.33
and have a closer look at "copy-deps" target
Cheers,
Siegfried Goeschl
Danny Angus wrote:
>On 19/09/05, Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>We could use maven, if we wanted to.
>>>
>>>
>>Maybe this will convince you not to do it :) :
>>http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=maven_refresher_course
>>
>>
>
>Sorry mate, unsubstantiated criticisms directed at the developers from
>a guy who has to vent bile by his own definition don't really compete
>with experience.
>
>People who don't like Maven generally don't like it because they can't
>be bothered to use it, don't work well in a structured enviroment, and
>can't stand to have their failings highlighted by a machine.
>
>Maven may not be pretty, but it works. It helps to manage
>dependancies, documentation, and quality standards, and can save a
>whole load of time and effort being wasted doing things by hand.
>
>I guess you'd rather write your own variation of an ant build.xml
>differently for every project, manage dependancies in hand written
>documentation and store your jars in cvs just in case you want to do
>something "special".
>In my experience the special thing becomes the weakness in your project.
>
>d.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: server-dev-unsubscribe@james.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: server-dev-help@james.apache.org
>
>
>
>
Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@gmail.com>.
On 19/09/05, Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > We could use maven, if we wanted to.
> Maybe this will convince you not to do it :) :
> http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=maven_refresher_course
Sorry mate, unsubstantiated criticisms directed at the developers from
a guy who has to vent bile by his own definition don't really compete
with experience.
People who don't like Maven generally don't like it because they can't
be bothered to use it, don't work well in a structured enviroment, and
can't stand to have their failings highlighted by a machine.
Maven may not be pretty, but it works. It helps to manage
dependancies, documentation, and quality standards, and can save a
whole load of time and effort being wasted doing things by hand.
I guess you'd rather write your own variation of an ant build.xml
differently for every project, manage dependancies in hand written
documentation and store your jars in cvs just in case you want to do
something "special".
In my experience the special thing becomes the weakness in your project.
d.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>.
>>Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with
>>something like this?
>
>
> We could use maven, if we wanted to.
Maybe this will convince you not to do it :) :
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=maven_refresher_course
Ahmed.
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RE: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > > In fact only build dependencies (jars needed to build the sources)
> > > should be in the repository.
> > Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with
> > something like this?
> I don't know how the current releases are created.
I, as anyone who builds from SVN, have to manually acquire various binary
jar files and place them in the build structure, then it can build and
package. We have to do that for the Sun jars. We have thus far chosen to
keep copies of the particular dnsjava and other binary jars.
I'm not sure that we can count on outside projects to keep the version(s)
that we want to use available, but we can talk with the Derby folks about
keeping old jars available until we are ready to move forward. Keep in mind
that dnsjava has changed interfaces from time to time, requiring source
changes on our end to upgrade to newer versions.
--- Noel
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Mike Heath <mh...@avaloninc.com>.
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 09:16 +0100, Danny Angus wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with
> > something like this?
>
> We could use maven, if we wanted to.
+1
I've moved a lot of my work projects and pet projects to Maven and can't
see myself ever going back to Ant.
One of my biggest frustrations with working on James has been updating
my Eclipse classpath to reflect the changing dependencies. With Maven I
can just do "maven eclipse" and I'm done. I think this kind of
simplicity could help attract more developers to James. I know I'm more
likely to dig into an open-source project if they're using Maven because
I know it's going to be easy to get things up and running.
-Mike
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Danny Angus <Da...@slc.co.uk>.
> Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with
> something like this?
We could use maven, if we wanted to.
> If we (Noel) create binary releases manually then it doesn't matter:
simply
> the release will need to manually download jars we intend to distribute
> (just like we currently do with mail and activation?).
Correct (again!).
d.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>.
> > In fact only build dependencies (jars needed to build the sources)
> > should be in the repository.
>
> Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with
> something like this?
I don't know how the current releases are created.
If we (Noel) create binary releases manually then it doesn't matter: simply
the release will need to manually download jars we intend to distribute
(just like we currently do with mail and activation?).
Stefano
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Serge Knystautas <sk...@gmail.com>.
On 9/15/05, Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org> wrote:
> > > I **really** don't think we should have derby jars in svn
> > Why not?
> > AFAIK derby would be default configured with derby as DB - so
> > it should work out-of-the-box. Since it's embedded(not
> > installed like mysql), the jars should be there.
>
> Probably Danny just want to remove the jars from the sources repository but
> still bundle them in the default binary distribution.
> We could even do the same thing with the whole phoenix thing if we were
> using an official release of phoenix.
>
> In fact only build dependencies (jars needed to build the sources) should be
> in the repository.
Wouldn't we need to switch to maven to get away with something like this?
--
Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>.
> Even then I'm -0 to having jars in the repository, we should have a
> download script (or something) which gets them from download sites.
Oh no, Maven - we are lost :).
Ahmed.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Danny Angus <Da...@slc.co.uk>.
> Probably Danny just want to remove the jars from the sources repository
but
> still bundle them in the default binary distribution.
Correct.
> We could even do the same thing with the whole phoenix thing if we were
> using an official release of phoenix.
Also correct.
> In fact only build dependencies (jars needed to build the sources) should
be
> in the repository.
Even then I'm -0 to having jars in the repository, we should have a
download script (or something) which gets them from download sites.
Having them there is only a convenience for our laziness and has licence
implications.
d.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>.
> > I **really** don't think we should have derby jars in svn
> Why not?
> AFAIK derby would be default configured with derby as DB - so
> it should work out-of-the-box. Since it's embedded(not
> installed like mysql), the jars should be there.
Probably Danny just want to remove the jars from the sources repository but
still bundle them in the default binary distribution.
We could even do the same thing with the whole phoenix thing if we were
using an official release of phoenix.
In fact only build dependencies (jars needed to build the sources) should be
in the repository.
Stefano
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>.
> I **really** don't think we should have derby jars in svn
Why not?
AFAIK derby would be default configured with derby as DB - so it should work
out-of-the-box. Since it's embedded(not installed like mysql), the jars should be there.
Ahmed.
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Re: jars in cvs/svn
Posted by Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>.
> I **really** don't think we should have derby jars in svn
>
> We can document the required version(s) and zip/tar them into
> distributions, but please not more jars in svn.
+1!
I simply don't know how to make it available in distributions without adding
it to svn.
I've seen that we was bundling the mm.mysql driver so I've done the same
thing for derby.
Feel free to remove it!
Stefano
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