Re: How can I help?

[jw...@speakeasy.net]

Hi Geoff,

I haven't forgotten you or the test cases.  I am actually getting an eclipse environment going and will come up to speed on Spindle and Tapestry 4 so I can contribute.  I haven't actually used Spindle before, I have been a "true-grit" VI kind of dude for the most part.  It will be good karma for me to get involved with the GUI stuff.

The email thread about the Future of Tapestry has been interesting.  I'm glad Howard clarified things but even before I wasn't too concerned.  What developer doesn't pine about "If I could start clean I would do such and such".  

A BIG advantage of Tapestry in the real world is that it is Java.  If I can tell my employers that it is "J2EE" technology, thats usually good enough.  Furthermore, I have been able to mix-and match Tapestry and JSP/Servlets allowing new Tapestry pages to exist alongside JSP pages with a shared session.  This capability is huge.  While Rubye, Python  etc. are definitely cool and may offer advantages over Java, Java is often an easier sell.

Jim Wilkerson


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:11 PM
> To: jwilker@speakeasy.net
> Subject: Re: How can I help?
> 
> On 7/12/05, jwilker@speakeasy.net <jw...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> > Hi Geoff,
> > 
> > No, you haven't scared me. Thanks for the opportunity.  This will actually be the first time contributing to an open-source project (shame on me) so bear with me if I ask a few stupid questions.
> > 
> 
> Ask away.
> 
> 
> > My experience so far has been with Tapestry 3 so I will have to come up to speed with 4.
> 
> An experienced T4 contributor will definitely help!
> 
> Geoff
> 
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:38 PM
> > > To: jwilker@speakeasy.net
> > > Subject: Re: How can I help?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the offer Jim!
> > >
> > > Right now I'm changing the core of Spindle and until that is done
> > > there isn't much code wise you can help with. Basicly, I work on it
> > > alternating days, working till 2 or 3 am one day and then catching up
> > > on sleep the next day. It's a bit of a mad rush :-D Hoping to have
> > > something solid by the end of the month. Solid in the core that is,
> > > not the UI.
> > >
> > > Right now the best thing you can do is learn Tapestry 4 by using it.
> > > Strange as it may sound I don't have time to do this! Which is not
> > > good as there are tons of new features that I will need to support but
> > > that I currently have no hands on experience with.
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is that the docs are lacking in places and Howard
> > > is often too busy to answer my questions in the detail I need. Or,
> > > perhaps I'm just bad at asking questions!
> > >
> > > I would recommend in the short term to build some simple apps that
> > > will be incorporated into the test cases for the new Spindle. This is
> > > a very important task as these project-lets will illustrate
> > > immediately where the code I have is lacking. Note that some features
> > > of T4 are not applicable to Spindle: like the new listener method
> > > formats.
> > >
> > > Here's the way I see it. Pick a feature - like
> > >
> > > " Components and component parameters can now be marked as deprecated.
> > > Component parameters may have aliases (used when renaming a
> > > parameter)."
> > >
> > > and make a little project with one component and one page. The
> > > component should have two parameters one that is deprecated and one
> > > that is not. The page should use the component twice, once using the
> > > deprecated component and once using the undeprecateed component.
> > > Tapestry should warn about the deprecated use. Spindle will need to
> > > reproduce this behaviour so it's a great test case.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > "Component parameters now just work, without having to worry about "direction".
> > >
> > > Does tapestry warn if DTD 3.0 spec files still use "direction"? A
> > > project demostrating this would be great too.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > The new binding prefix stuff - haven't looked too deeply at that yet.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > T4 allows one to use an xnls namespace for tapestry things in
> > > templates - like tap:jwcid
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > Tapestry no longer requires a spec to specify the component or page
> > > class. Rather a user supplies a list of packages that Tapestry will
> > > use to find the class. Spindle will need to mimic this so again a test
> > > project is useful.
> > >
> > > etc. This is not an exhastive list!
> > >
> > > The thing is that many of these "features" (not all but many) are
> > > rarely used but there is always someone who does use them so Spindle
> > > has to support it.
> > >
> > > Lastly, T4 includes support for using Annotations. This is going to be
> > > the hardest part of upgrading Spindle so the test cases will be the
> > > most important. I also think that the array of test cases needed will
> > > be large to accomodate all the possibilities. BUT I don't recommend
> > > starting with these as Annotation support will be last on my list. In
> > > other words I don't intend to look at Annotation support until
> > > everything else in Spindle 4 (for T4) is done.
> > >
> > > Once the core and test cases are available there are plenty of
> > > opportunities to help wich involve writing code, either in the Eclipee
> > > space or not. I'm doing some work to abstract the guts of Spindle away
> > > from Eclipse and that opens the door to many really cool things.
> > >
> > > - Ant tasks that validate projects the "Spindle way"
> > > - Plugins for other IDEs (maybe)
> > > - etc.
> > >
> > > Hope I haven't scared you away! :-)
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/11/05, jwilker@speakeasy.net <jw...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> > > > I am a Java developer with about 7 years experience with Java and a year or so with Tapestry.  I would love to help out.  I put out a question to the mail list asking where the greatest need was at the moment.
> > > >
> > > > Someone suggested that you could use some cycles for Spindle.  I confess that I have very little SWING experience, most of my experience has been web-based (Servlets, JSP etc. before Tapestry :) ).  However I can always pick up SWING if needed and can also help with testing and documentation.
> > > >
> > > > I will go ahead and pull down the Spindle source and Eclipse (So far I have been a vi - only kind of guy) and get some experience building Spindle.
> > > >
> > > > What is your biggest need right now?  I am not proud and will do whatever tasks are needed.
> > > >
> > > > thank you!
> > > > Jim Wilkerson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Spindle guy.           http://spindle.sf.net
> > > Get help with Spindle:
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> > > Announcement Feed:
> > > http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> > > Feature Updates:            http://spindle.sf.net/updates
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Spindle guy.           http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:   
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:    
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates:            http://spindle.sf.net/updates
> 



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