You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> on 2011/11/21 18:27:50 UTC
Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
At some point (and we don't know that date) the Oracle hosting of the
*.openoffice.org email forwarder will be shut down. Users of this
forwarder will be disappointed when they hear the news. But they will
be far more upset if they do not hear about until their emails start
disappearing. We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had. I
want to discuss how we can best notify users about this change, so
they can make necessarily changes on their end, and how we can
preserve continuity for some important email addresses on our end.
This is my proposal, one that I am willing to work on. I welcome
help. And if someone wants to make a counter-proposal that they would
rather work on, then feel free. We can discuss.
1) Check with Andrew on the latest date where we can be assured the
email forwarder will be still in operation. I don't want users
surprised, but neither do I want this to appear open-ended.
2) Write a blog post to notify public of the shutdown. Review on
ooo-dev, then publish. Encourage wide reposting of the blog post via
social media, legacy mailing lists, etc. "Get the word out"
3) Work on a wiki page that has a list of common destination
openoffice.org email addresses as well as the corresponding (or
closest matching) AOO address.
4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
forwarder shutdown date.
Note: I am not proposing any automatic forwarding. Automatic
forwarding would indiscriminately forward spam as well. My goal is to
avoid that. But it is a trade-off and there may be special
circumstances for specific lists. But I think we can handle 99% of
them, along with all of the personal email addresses, per the above.
72 hours, lazy consensus, etc.
-Rob
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Andrea Pescetti
>>> <pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
>>>> On 21/11/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
>>>>> or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
>>>>> made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
>>>>> general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had.
>>>>
>>>> OK, I've read it and I still believe it was probably a bad choice, but we
>>>> will have to respect it.
>>>>
>>>>> We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
>>>>> to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
>>>>
>>>> Sure. And I would actually turn your proposal in something less negative;
>>>> say, I would add that people who believe that an e-mail address is important
>>>> for community building can become Apache OpenOffice committers by
>>>> meritocracy and obtain an @apache.org e-mail address (or forwarder, or
>>>> whatever it is).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good point.
>>>
>>>>> 4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
>>>>> in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
>>>>> page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
>>>>> forwarder shutdown date.
>>>>
>>>> Here it will be important to avoid that someone receives a deluge of
>>>> notifications by some automated system that is still in place in the complex
>>>> OpenOffice.org infrastructure. So this has to be handled carefully, but I'm
>>>> in favor of an automated response.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So what systems do you think might be sending a lot of emails at once
>>> to openoffice.org email addresses?
>>>
>>> 1) Legacy OpenOffice.org mailing lists
>>>
>>> 2) Bugzilla?
>>>
>>> Any others?
>>>
>>> Give the above, it probably makes sense if we first disable the legacy
>>> mailing lists, and only then disable the email forwarder. That will
>>> eliminate the largest source of bounce notifications.
>>
>> You should discuss the details with Andrew Rist.
>>
>> Let's not forgot that we do not need the same urgency retiring email forwarders that we require for migrating the website.
>>
>
> I feel some urgency on retiring the email forwarder. As I stated
> before, with 500,000 email addresses we cannot be certain that some
> are not being used by individuals impersonating official roles for the
> project. That was hypothetical before. But know we have evidence of
> actual instances of this. Also, if you recall, the Board concerns
> about the service had nothing to do with the ease oir difficulty of
> migration. It was on policy grounds.
>
> So I'm going to continue pushing for a coordinated, clean retirement
> of that service, along with the legacy mailing lists.
+1 then - let's just not tie it directly with the site migration. Even though the order might change details we should each proceed semi-independently. If there are blanket changes you would like to make in ooo-site let us know. Making blanket changes in Kenai is what I wish to avoid.
Regards,
Dave
>
> -Rob
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Nov 27, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Andrea Pescetti
>> <pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
>>> On 21/11/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
>>>> or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
>>>> made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
>>>> general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had.
>>>
>>> OK, I've read it and I still believe it was probably a bad choice, but we
>>> will have to respect it.
>>>
>>>> We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
>>>> to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
>>>
>>> Sure. And I would actually turn your proposal in something less negative;
>>> say, I would add that people who believe that an e-mail address is important
>>> for community building can become Apache OpenOffice committers by
>>> meritocracy and obtain an @apache.org e-mail address (or forwarder, or
>>> whatever it is).
>>>
>>
>> Good point.
>>
>>>> 4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
>>>> in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
>>>> page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
>>>> forwarder shutdown date.
>>>
>>> Here it will be important to avoid that someone receives a deluge of
>>> notifications by some automated system that is still in place in the complex
>>> OpenOffice.org infrastructure. So this has to be handled carefully, but I'm
>>> in favor of an automated response.
>>>
>>
>> So what systems do you think might be sending a lot of emails at once
>> to openoffice.org email addresses?
>>
>> 1) Legacy OpenOffice.org mailing lists
>>
>> 2) Bugzilla?
>>
>> Any others?
>>
>> Give the above, it probably makes sense if we first disable the legacy
>> mailing lists, and only then disable the email forwarder. That will
>> eliminate the largest source of bounce notifications.
>
> You should discuss the details with Andrew Rist.
>
> Let's not forgot that we do not need the same urgency retiring email forwarders that we require for migrating the website.
>
I feel some urgency on retiring the email forwarder. As I stated
before, with 500,000 email addresses we cannot be certain that some
are not being used by individuals impersonating official roles for the
project. That was hypothetical before. But know we have evidence of
actual instances of this. Also, if you recall, the Board concerns
about the service had nothing to do with the ease oir difficulty of
migration. It was on policy grounds.
So I'm going to continue pushing for a coordinated, clean retirement
of that service, along with the legacy mailing lists.
-Rob
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>
>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 27, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Andrea Pescetti
> <pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
>> On 21/11/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
>>> or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
>>> made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
>>> general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had.
>>
>> OK, I've read it and I still believe it was probably a bad choice, but we
>> will have to respect it.
>>
>>> We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
>>> to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
>>
>> Sure. And I would actually turn your proposal in something less negative;
>> say, I would add that people who believe that an e-mail address is important
>> for community building can become Apache OpenOffice committers by
>> meritocracy and obtain an @apache.org e-mail address (or forwarder, or
>> whatever it is).
>>
>
> Good point.
>
>>> 4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
>>> in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
>>> page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
>>> forwarder shutdown date.
>>
>> Here it will be important to avoid that someone receives a deluge of
>> notifications by some automated system that is still in place in the complex
>> OpenOffice.org infrastructure. So this has to be handled carefully, but I'm
>> in favor of an automated response.
>>
>
> So what systems do you think might be sending a lot of emails at once
> to openoffice.org email addresses?
>
> 1) Legacy OpenOffice.org mailing lists
>
> 2) Bugzilla?
>
> Any others?
>
> Give the above, it probably makes sense if we first disable the legacy
> mailing lists, and only then disable the email forwarder. That will
> eliminate the largest source of bounce notifications.
You should discuss the details with Andrew Rist.
Let's not forgot that we do not need the same urgency retiring email forwarders that we require for migrating the website.
Regards,
Dave
>
> -Rob
>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> So what systems do you think might be sending a lot of emails at once
> to openoffice.org email addresses?
> 1) Legacy OpenOffice.org mailing lists
> 2) Bugzilla?
> Any others?
I think Bugzilla is the one more likely to send mass e-mails to
openoffice.org addresses; I've seen that now Bugzilla e-mails come from
a no-reply address, so the bounce messages would probably bounce back,
but I'm sure system administrators are savvy enough to do the right thing.
Mailing lists shouldn't be very problematic since a fraction of users
use their openoffice.org address for mailing lists, and many of them do
it because thay are involved with the project, so they are likely to be
informed. However, it would be very annoying that everybody sending a
mail to a mailing lists receives a bounce message back; but, again, this
can probably be handled when the bounce mechanism is configured.
Extensions and templates should be considered too: right now,
authentication on both sites relies on openoffice.org addresses, see
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Extensions+and+templates
The system might thus store the openoffice.org forwarder as the
extension publisher's e-mail, so it might happen (I can't check it) that
if the openoffice.org e-mail forwarders are shut down, then it becomes
impossible to contact publishers of any extensions/templates. Whatever
the destiny of the extensions/templates sites will be, it would be
important to keep the possibility to contact all of their users (i.e.,
extensions/templates publishers) at due time.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Andrea Pescetti
<pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
> On 21/11/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
>> or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
>> made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
>> general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had.
>
> OK, I've read it and I still believe it was probably a bad choice, but we
> will have to respect it.
>
>> We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
>> to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
>
> Sure. And I would actually turn your proposal in something less negative;
> say, I would add that people who believe that an e-mail address is important
> for community building can become Apache OpenOffice committers by
> meritocracy and obtain an @apache.org e-mail address (or forwarder, or
> whatever it is).
>
Good point.
>> 4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
>> in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
>> page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
>> forwarder shutdown date.
>
> Here it will be important to avoid that someone receives a deluge of
> notifications by some automated system that is still in place in the complex
> OpenOffice.org infrastructure. So this has to be handled carefully, but I'm
> in favor of an automated response.
>
So what systems do you think might be sending a lot of emails at once
to openoffice.org email addresses?
1) Legacy OpenOffice.org mailing lists
2) Bugzilla?
Any others?
Give the above, it probably makes sense if we first disable the legacy
mailing lists, and only then disable the email forwarder. That will
eliminate the largest source of bounce notifications.
-Rob
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>.
On 21/11/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
> Please note: I don't want to discuss here the merits of shutting down
> or not shutting down such a forwarding service. That discussion was
> made moot by an ASF Board decision against hosting such a
> general-access email forwarding service like the legacy OOo had.
OK, I've read it and I still believe it was probably a bad choice, but
we will have to respect it.
> We didn't create this problem, but we're the best ones
> to help reduce the pain of this shutdown.
Sure. And I would actually turn your proposal in something less
negative; say, I would add that people who believe that an e-mail
address is important for community building can become Apache OpenOffice
committers by meritocracy and obtain an @apache.org e-mail address (or
forwarder, or whatever it is).
> 4) Work with Infra@ on a custom bounce notification that would be sent
> in response to all openoffice.org emails. It would link to the wiki
> page from step #3. Coordinate this so it is ready on or before the
> forwarder shutdown date.
Here it will be important to avoid that someone receives a deluge of
notifications by some automated system that is still in place in the
complex OpenOffice.org infrastructure. So this has to be handled
carefully, but I'm in favor of an automated response.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
+1
...including Simon's suggestion.
RE: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
+1 on all of it
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 09:28
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
[ ... ]
This is my proposal, one that I am willing to work on. I welcome
help. And if someone wants to make a counter-proposal that they would
rather work on, then feel free. We can discuss.
[ ... ]
72 hours, lazy consensus, etc.
-Rob
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
+1 from me
On 11/22/11 10:04 AM, Malte Timmermann wrote:
> +1 to Rob's and Simon's suggestion.
>
> I really have no interest in keeping my @openoffice.org email forward,
> as it's only good for receiving lots of Spam.
>
> Malte.
>
> On 21.11.2011 18:41, Simon Phipps wrote:
>>
>> On 21 Nov 2011, at 17:27, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> 1) Check with Andrew on the latest date where we can be assured the
>>> email forwarder will be still in operation. I don't want users
>>> surprised, but neither do I want this to appear open-ended.
>>
>> Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses
>> Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service
>> e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is
>> able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
>>
>> S.
>>
>>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Malte Timmermann <ma...@gmx.com>.
+1 to Rob's and Simon's suggestion.
I really have no interest in keeping my @openoffice.org email forward,
as it's only good for receiving lots of Spam.
Malte.
On 21.11.2011 18:41, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 21 Nov 2011, at 17:27, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> 1) Check with Andrew on the latest date where we can be assured the
>> email forwarder will be still in operation. I don't want users
>> surprised, but neither do I want this to appear open-ended.
>
> Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
>
> S.
>
>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 28, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 22 Nov 2011, at 00:02, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>>>
>>> Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
>>
>> Andrew also indicated that there will no full blast from Oracle.
>
> Do you have a pointer to a message asserting that please, Dave? All I can find is a message in October[1] asserting that the list won't be made available to Apache, not one stating that Oracle itself refuses to send an e-mail informing users that the mail service is shutting down.
My understanding was from a verbal conversation with Andrew and Don at Apachecon. You might say it is hearsay, or inside information. You'll have to ask Andrew Rist how to characterize the situation "officially."
>
> Thanks!
You're welcome! Although you will have to appreciate that I can't answer your question.
>
> S.
> (who is catching up with the Apache backlog)
I hope you caught a quick jet stream back to the UK.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/browser
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 22 Nov 2011, at 00:02, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>>
>> Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
>
> Andrew also indicated that there will no full blast from Oracle.
Do you have a pointer to a message asserting that please, Dave? All I can find is a message in October[1] asserting that the list won't be made available to Apache, not one stating that Oracle itself refuses to send an e-mail informing users that the mail service is shutting down.
Thanks!
S.
(who is catching up with the Apache backlog)
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/browser
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 21 Nov 2011, at 17:27, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> 1) Check with Andrew on the latest date where we can be assured the
>> email forwarder will be still in operation. I don't want users
>> surprised, but neither do I want this to appear open-ended.
In verbal discussion Andrew indicated that the forwarders should work until sometime in Q1 of next year.
>
> Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
Andrew also indicated that there will no full blast from Oracle.
Of course, I am repeating "hearsay" - so this is not "official".
+1 to Rob's plan.
Regards,
Dave
>
> S.
>
>
Re: Proposal for retirement of openoffice.org email forwarder
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 21 Nov 2011, at 17:27, Rob Weir wrote:
> 1) Check with Andrew on the latest date where we can be assured the
> email forwarder will be still in operation. I don't want users
> surprised, but neither do I want this to appear open-ended.
Is Andrew also able to arrange for all the @openoffice.org addresses Oracle has on record to receive a one-time termination-of-service e-mail sent to them pointing to the blog post and wiki page? If he is able to arrange that, I suggest adding it to your step 1.
S.