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Posted to dev@opendal.apache.org by tison <wa...@gmail.com> on 2023/11/18 11:13:33 UTC
[DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Hi,
Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
members of the PMC[1].
Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
PMC unless there is a certain issue.
And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
Best,
tison.
[1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Suyan <su...@gmail.com>.
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
For me, this suggestion is unacceptable.
What the community needs most is fairness, but to do so would create a
certain unfairness.
> mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
This one is fine to me.
Sincerely,
Suyan
tison <wa...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月18日周六 19:15写道：
>
> Hi,
>
> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> members of the PMC[1].
>
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org>.
Sorry, I have made a confusion here.
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
By `included` I mean be included in `inviting`, not directly `included` in the name list.
In other words, I think current policy is acceptable. If all people are invited and included, it will be better.
On 2023/11/30 08:12:13 tison wrote:
> > warm-hearted committer
>
> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
> instead of authority on project management.
>
> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
>
> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
> candidate.
>
> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
>
> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
> even acts as release manager.
>
> > Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
>
> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
> a new thread in private@.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
>
> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
> >
> > Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
> >
> > > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> > >
> > > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> > It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
> >
> > On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> > > members of the PMC[1].
> > >
> > > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> > >
> > > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> > >
> > > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > tison.
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> > >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org>.
LGTM, I agree with Xuanwo's solution.
I have carefully read through all the discussions in this thread, and now I understand the matter.
Best,
PsiACE
On 2023/11/30 09:56:48 Xuanwo wrote:
> Taking into account feedback from PPMC members, I propose the following:
>
> Initiate an invitation to all committers at dev@o.a.o with a three-day response timeout. Committers interested in taking the responsibilities of PPMC members can respond according to their own preference.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 16:52, Mingzhuo Yin wrote:
> >> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>
> >> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> >
> > I think it’s acceptable to invite all active committers.
> >
> >>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o <ma...@o.a.o> regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
> >>> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
> >>
> >> I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
> >> going on for a relatively long time.
> >> We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
> >> participation from all.
> >
> >
> > I agree with it. Perhaps it would be better to summarize to a clearer
> > background and start voting. Furthermore, I think it is also important
> > to listen to committer's thoughts.
> >
> >> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> >> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
> >
> > Sorry for late response. I’m a little busy recently.
> >
> >> 2023年11月30日 16:12，tison <wa...@gmail.com> 写道：
> >>
> >>> warm-hearted committer
> >>
> >> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
> >> instead of authority on project management.
> >>
> >> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
> >> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
> >>
> >> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
> >> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
> >> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
> >> candidate.
> >>
> >> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
> >> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
> >>
> >> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
> >> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
> >> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
> >> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
> >> even acts as release manager.
> >>
> >>> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
> >>
> >> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
> >> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
> >> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
> >> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
> >> a new thread in private@.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> tison.
> >>
> >> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
> >>
> >> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
> >>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>
> >>> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
> >>>
> >>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >>>> members of the PMC[1].
> >>>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >>>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> tison.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >>>>
>
> --
> Xuanwo
>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
> Initiate an invitation to all committers
To be clear, this will happen along with the invitation to mentors
(i.e., almost the last step before or along with the formal graduation
discussion)?
Given that we still have other tasks before starting a graduation
resolution[1], I don't think we should go through this now/first.
Best,
tison.
[1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3283
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 17:57写道：
>
> Taking into account feedback from PPMC members, I propose the following:
>
> Initiate an invitation to all committers at dev@o.a.o with a three-day response timeout. Committers interested in taking the responsibilities of PPMC members can respond according to their own preference.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 16:52, Mingzhuo Yin wrote:
> >> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>
> >> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> >
> > I think it’s acceptable to invite all active committers.
> >
> >>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o <ma...@o.a.o> regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
> >>> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
> >>
> >> I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
> >> going on for a relatively long time.
> >> We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
> >> participation from all.
> >
> >
> > I agree with it. Perhaps it would be better to summarize to a clearer
> > background and start voting. Furthermore, I think it is also important
> > to listen to committer's thoughts.
> >
> >> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> >> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
> >
> > Sorry for late response. I’m a little busy recently.
> >
> >> 2023年11月30日 16:12，tison <wa...@gmail.com> 写道：
> >>
> >>> warm-hearted committer
> >>
> >> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
> >> instead of authority on project management.
> >>
> >> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
> >> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
> >>
> >> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
> >> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
> >> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
> >> candidate.
> >>
> >> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
> >> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
> >>
> >> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
> >> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
> >> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
> >> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
> >> even acts as release manager.
> >>
> >>> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
> >>
> >> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
> >> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
> >> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
> >> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
> >> a new thread in private@.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> tison.
> >>
> >> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
> >>
> >> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
> >>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>
> >>> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
> >>>
> >>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >>>> members of the PMC[1].
> >>>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >>>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> tison.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >>>>
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Willem Jiang <wi...@gmail.com>.
Normally we send the mail to the committer's email address and cc the
private list to ask if they are interested about being the PMC of the
graduating project.
If the response is key, we can put him into the PMC list.
Willem Jiang
Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 5:57 PM Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Taking into account feedback from PPMC members, I propose the following:
>
> Initiate an invitation to all committers at dev@o.a.o with a three-day response timeout. Committers interested in taking the responsibilities of PPMC members can respond according to their own preference.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 16:52, Mingzhuo Yin wrote:
> >> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>
> >> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> >
> > I think it’s acceptable to invite all active committers.
> >
> >>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o <ma...@o.a.o> regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
> >>> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
> >>
> >> I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
> >> going on for a relatively long time.
> >> We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
> >> participation from all.
> >
> >
> > I agree with it. Perhaps it would be better to summarize to a clearer
> > background and start voting. Furthermore, I think it is also important
> > to listen to committer's thoughts.
> >
> >> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> >> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
> >
> > Sorry for late response. I’m a little busy recently.
> >
> >> 2023年11月30日 16:12，tison <wa...@gmail.com> 写道：
> >>
> >>> warm-hearted committer
> >>
> >> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
> >> instead of authority on project management.
> >>
> >> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
> >> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
> >>
> >> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
> >> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
> >> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
> >> candidate.
> >>
> >> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
> >> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
> >>
> >> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
> >> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
> >> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
> >> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
> >> even acts as release manager.
> >>
> >>> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
> >>
> >> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
> >> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
> >> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
> >> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
> >> a new thread in private@.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> tison.
> >>
> >> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
> >>
> >> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
> >>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>
> >>> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
> >>>
> >>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >>>> members of the PMC[1].
> >>>>
> >>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >>>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> tison.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >>>>
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
Taking into account feedback from PPMC members, I propose the following:
Initiate an invitation to all committers at dev@o.a.o with a three-day response timeout. Committers interested in taking the responsibilities of PPMC members can respond according to their own preference.
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 16:52, Mingzhuo Yin wrote:
>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>
>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
>
> I think it’s acceptable to invite all active committers.
>
>>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o <ma...@o.a.o> regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
>>> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
>>
>> I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
>> going on for a relatively long time.
>> We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
>> participation from all.
>
>
> I agree with it. Perhaps it would be better to summarize to a clearer
> background and start voting. Furthermore, I think it is also important
> to listen to committer's thoughts.
>
>> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
>> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
>
> Sorry for late response. I’m a little busy recently.
>
>> 2023年11月30日 16:12，tison <wa...@gmail.com> 写道：
>>
>>> warm-hearted committer
>>
>> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
>> instead of authority on project management.
>>
>> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
>> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
>>
>> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
>> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
>> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
>> candidate.
>>
>> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
>> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
>>
>> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
>> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
>> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
>> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
>> even acts as release manager.
>>
>>> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
>>
>> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
>> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
>> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
>> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
>> a new thread in private@.
>>
>> Best,
>> tison.
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
>>
>> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
>>>
>>> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
>>>
>>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>>>
>>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>>>
>>> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
>>>
>>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>>>> members of the PMC[1].
>>>>
>>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>>>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>>>
>>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>>>>
>>>> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> tison.
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>>>>
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Mingzhuo Yin <si...@apache.org>.
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
I think it’s acceptable to invite all active committers.
>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o <ma...@o.a.o> regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
>> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
>
> I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
> going on for a relatively long time.
> We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
> participation from all.
I agree with it. Perhaps it would be better to summarize to a clearer background and start voting. Furthermore, I think it is also important to listen to committer's thoughts.
> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
Sorry for late response. I’m a little busy recently.
> 2023年11月30日 16:12，tison <wa...@gmail.com> 写道：
>
>> warm-hearted committer
>
> My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
> instead of authority on project management.
>
> If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
> regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
>
> Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
> committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
> and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
> candidate.
>
> Management includes reviewing/replying other's
> contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
>
> I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
> members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
> status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
> than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
> even acts as release manager.
>
>> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
>
> It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
> purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
> member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
> certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
> a new thread in private@.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
>
> Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
>>
>> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
>>
>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>>
>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>>
>> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
>>
>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>>> members of the PMC[1].
>>>
>>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>>
>>> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>>> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>>>
>>> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> tison.
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
> warm-hearted committer
My experience is that PMC members generally take more responsibility
instead of authority on project management.
If one submits patches, report issues, or evangelize the project, I'd
regard the people as a committer who commits to evolving the project.
Then, if any contributor (no matter whether or not he/she is a
committer already) shows interest in participate in project management
and showing a good understanding, I'll regard them as a PMC member
candidate.
Management includes reviewing/replying other's
contributions/questions, and take actions on CVE, release, etc.
I have a loose concern that OpenDAL has a much higher bar on PMC
members than committers. If you take a look at the News section in our
status page [1], you will find that we nominate many more committers
than PMC members, while some of them are around for a while also and
even acts as release manager.
> Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
It's not a goal to "nominate more PMC members", at least not at this
purpose. But we can review the unspoken bar and nominate new PMC
member according to our understanding. If you'd like to nominate
certain people (with their names referred), note that you should start
a new thread in private@.
Best,
tison.
[1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/opendal.html
Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:34写道：
>
> Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
>
> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >
> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
>
> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> > members of the PMC[1].
> >
> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >
> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Cai Lue <ca...@apache.org>.
Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy dealing with my university graduation issues this week.
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
It will be acceptable if every warm-hearted committer could be included.
On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> members of the PMC[1].
>
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 20:15写道：
>
> > This is usually measuring whether the project is fully understanding the
> > ASF culture, including don't set the bar too high, and be open.
>
> Yes, OpenDAL maintains a low bar for both committers and PPMC members: we've welcomed 2 new PPMC members and 9 new committers during the incubation period which is less than 9 months.
>
> > Committer and PMC member are same from privilege of codes. PMC members are
> > only taking more responsibilities to take actions on security, board
> > request, vote evaluation.
> > The common misunderstanding is, PMC members should have more power, or aka
> > more authority. +1 binding is a responsibility, not a power.
>
> I toally agree the comments here. PMC members will have more responsibility to take and this is why we set different bar for committers and PPMC members for now.
>
> I propose promoting committers to PPMC members based on their prior contributions before initiating our vote for graduation, rather than automatically including all existing committers as PPMC members.
About this `rather than` thing.
It is too early to say. I will hold mine until the graduation discussion comes.
To other mentors, please consider this as a factor about the maturity
of the project community, although this is from one member of the PMC.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:46, Sheng Wu wrote:
> > Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>于2023年11月18日 周六19:36写道：
> >
> >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >>
> >> LGTM.
> >>
> >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >>
> >> Could you provide more background information on this suggestion? Both
> >> committers and PMC members earn their positions through contributions.
> >> Those who haven't been included as PPMC members likely lack sufficient
> >> contributions. It wouldn't be fair to include them just because OpenDAL is
> >> graduating.
> >>
> >> Indeed, we have several potential PPMC members. However, I believe we
> >> should promote them individually and separate this process from our project
> >> graduation.
> >
> >
> > This is usually measuring whether the project is fully understanding the
> > ASF culture, including don't set the bar too high, and be open.
> > Committer and PMC member are same from privilege of codes. PMC members are
> > only taking more responsibilities to take actions on security, board
> > request, vote evaluation.
> > The common misunderstanding is, PMC members should have more power, or aka
> > more authority. +1 binding is a responsibility, not a power.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:13, tison wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >> > members of the PMC[1].
> >> >
> >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >> >
> >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >> >
> >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > tison.
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >>
> >> --
> >> Xuanwo
> >>
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
> This is usually measuring whether the project is fully understanding the
> ASF culture, including don't set the bar too high, and be open.
Yes, OpenDAL maintains a low bar for both committers and PPMC members: we've welcomed 2 new PPMC members and 9 new committers during the incubation period which is less than 9 months.
> Committer and PMC member are same from privilege of codes. PMC members are
> only taking more responsibilities to take actions on security, board
> request, vote evaluation.
> The common misunderstanding is, PMC members should have more power, or aka
> more authority. +1 binding is a responsibility, not a power.
I toally agree the comments here. PMC members will have more responsibility to take and this is why we set different bar for committers and PPMC members for now.
I propose promoting committers to PPMC members based on their prior contributions before initiating our vote for graduation, rather than automatically including all existing committers as PPMC members.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:46, Sheng Wu wrote:
> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>于2023年11月18日 周六19:36写道：
>
>> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>>
>> LGTM.
>>
>> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>>
>> Could you provide more background information on this suggestion? Both
>> committers and PMC members earn their positions through contributions.
>> Those who haven't been included as PPMC members likely lack sufficient
>> contributions. It wouldn't be fair to include them just because OpenDAL is
>> graduating.
>>
>> Indeed, we have several potential PPMC members. However, I believe we
>> should promote them individually and separate this process from our project
>> graduation.
>
>
> This is usually measuring whether the project is fully understanding the
> ASF culture, including don't set the bar too high, and be open.
> Committer and PMC member are same from privilege of codes. PMC members are
> only taking more responsibilities to take actions on security, board
> request, vote evaluation.
> The common misunderstanding is, PMC members should have more power, or aka
> more authority. +1 binding is a responsibility, not a power.
>
>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:13, tison wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>> > members of the PMC[1].
>> >
>> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>> >
>> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>> >
>> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > tison.
>> >
>> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>>
>> --
>> Xuanwo
>>
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>于2023年11月18日 周六19:36写道：
> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> LGTM.
>
> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> Could you provide more background information on this suggestion? Both
> committers and PMC members earn their positions through contributions.
> Those who haven't been included as PPMC members likely lack sufficient
> contributions. It wouldn't be fair to include them just because OpenDAL is
> graduating.
>
> Indeed, we have several potential PPMC members. However, I believe we
> should promote them individually and separate this process from our project
> graduation.
This is usually measuring whether the project is fully understanding the
ASF culture, including don't set the bar too high, and be open.
Committer and PMC member are same from privilege of codes. PMC members are
only taking more responsibilities to take actions on security, board
request, vote evaluation.
The common misunderstanding is, PMC members should have more power, or aka
more authority. +1 binding is a responsibility, not a power.
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:13, tison wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> > members of the PMC[1].
> >
> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >
> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>
> --
> Xuanwo
>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
LGTM.
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
Could you provide more background information on this suggestion? Both committers and PMC members earn their positions through contributions. Those who haven't been included as PPMC members likely lack sufficient contributions. It wouldn't be fair to include them just because OpenDAL is graduating.
Indeed, we have several potential PPMC members. However, I believe we should promote them individually and separate this process from our project graduation.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, at 19:13, tison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> members of the PMC[1].
>
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by sundyli <su...@apache.org>.
> We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
I agree with this point.
> All members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
Better to vote for the specific person to be the PMC member, not all of
them.
> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
Sorry for the less active in this thread, a little busy with work and a new
baby.
tison <wa...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:06写道：
> > But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> > I am curious, why?
>
> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
> >
> > I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important
> thing.
> > The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
> > over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
> > But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> > I am curious, why?
> >
> > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > Twitter, wusheng1108
> >
> > Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
> > >
> > > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> > >
> > > I'm ok with this.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> > > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> > > >
> > > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> > > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> > > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
> > > >
> > > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > tison.
> > > >
> > > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
> > > >>
> > > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members,
> recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers
> solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased
> responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This
> approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
> > > >>
> > > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming
> a TLP.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best regards,
> > > >> PsiACE
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an
> agreement on the
> > > >> > members of the PMC[1].
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP
> PMC. All
> > > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in
> the TLP
> > > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Best,
> > > >> > tison.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> > > >> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Xuanwo
>
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
> Two, PPMC is being measured as a high authority, which may be too
> high. The following and similar replies show up in this thread, I am
> not sure whether this is a language issue, but this kind of speaking
> in public(the dev mail list is public), is a kind of Dictatorship,
> that conflicts with ASF culture.
There might be a misunderstanding here. (I personally believe they are language issues).
PPMC members don't hold superior authority; all committers are equal within the OpenDAL community. The distinction between a PPMC member (a future PMC member) and a committer lies in their responsibilities. We nominate someone as PPMC member after they've demonstrated an increased willingness to take on responsibility through their contributions.
Let's seize this opportunity to nominate more PMC members.
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:31, Sheng Wu wrote:
> Two things from my concerns of being positive for the graduation.
>
> One, the email list is a place to talk, and ASF does not always
> request a vote, this is not how we do things.
>
> Two, PPMC is being measured as a high authority, which may be too
> high. The following and similar replies show up in this thread, I am
> not sure whether this is a language issue, but this kind of speaking
> in public(the dev mail list is public), is a kind of Dictatorship,
> that conflicts with ASF culture.
> ```
>> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> For me, this suggestion is unacceptable.
> What the community needs most is fairness, but to do so would create a
> certain unfairness.
> ```
>
> I don't plan to force PPMC to accept how to select PMC members, but
> how they see PMC members, as a higher hierarchy structure for others.
> I am not feeling well.
> This is not the first time I mentioned this concern.
>
> At ASF, to be a committer is mostly about credit and trust, mostly.
> PMC members only mean to have more responsibility to take actions on
> CVE, release, etc. None of these is not about authoritative.
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 23:18写道：
>>
>> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate. All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
>>
>> We can make sure all PPMC members presents their ideas on this consensus in this way.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:06, tison wrote:
>> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
>> >> I am curious, why?
>> >
>> > I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
>> > graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > tison.
>> >
>> > Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
>> >>
>> >> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
>> >> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
>> >> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
>> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
>> >> I am curious, why?
>> >>
>> >> Sheng Wu 吴晟
>> >> Twitter, wusheng1108
>> >>
>> >> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
>> >> >
>> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
>> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
>> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm ok with this.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
>> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
>> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
>> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
>> >> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
>> >> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Best,
>> >> > > tison.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Best regards,
>> >> > >> PsiACE
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
>> >> > >> > Hi,
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>> >> > >> > members of the PMC[1].
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> >> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> >> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Best,
>> >> > >> > tison.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>> >> > >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Xuanwo
>>
>> --
>> Xuanwo
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Two things from my concerns of being positive for the graduation.
One, the email list is a place to talk, and ASF does not always
request a vote, this is not how we do things.
Two, PPMC is being measured as a high authority, which may be too
high. The following and similar replies show up in this thread, I am
not sure whether this is a language issue, but this kind of speaking
in public(the dev mail list is public), is a kind of Dictatorship,
that conflicts with ASF culture.
```
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
For me, this suggestion is unacceptable.
What the community needs most is fairness, but to do so would create a
certain unfairness.
```
I don't plan to force PPMC to accept how to select PMC members, but
how they see PMC members, as a higher hierarchy structure for others.
I am not feeling well.
This is not the first time I mentioned this concern.
At ASF, to be a committer is mostly about credit and trust, mostly.
PMC members only mean to have more responsibility to take actions on
CVE, release, etc. None of these is not about authoritative.
Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 23:18写道：
>
> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate. All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
>
> We can make sure all PPMC members presents their ideas on this consensus in this way.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:06, tison wrote:
> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> >> I am curious, why?
> >
> > I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> > graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
> >>
> >> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
> >> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
> >> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> >> I am curious, why?
> >>
> >> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> >> Twitter, wusheng1108
> >>
> >> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
> >> >
> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >> >
> >> > I'm ok with this.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >> > >
> >> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> >> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> >> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
> >> > >
> >> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
> >> > >
> >> > > Best,
> >> > > tison.
> >> > >
> >> > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Best regards,
> >> > >> PsiACE
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >> > >> > Hi,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >> > >> > members of the PMC[1].
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Best,
> >> > >> > tison.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >> > >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Xuanwo
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Suyan <su...@gmail.com>.
> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate.
> All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
I think this could be a good way. Our current discussion has been
going on for a relatively long time.
We may need a clearer context for posting ideas to encourage active
participation from all.
Sincerely,
Suyan
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月30日周四 15:19写道：
>
> I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate. All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
>
> We can make sure all PPMC members presents their ideas on this consensus in this way.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:06, tison wrote:
> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> >> I am curious, why?
> >
> > I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> > graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
> >>
> >> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
> >> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
> >> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
> >> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> >> I am curious, why?
> >>
> >> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> >> Twitter, wusheng1108
> >>
> >> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
> >> >
> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >> >
> >> > I'm ok with this.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> >> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> >> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> >> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >> > >
> >> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> >> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> >> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
> >> > >
> >> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
> >> > >
> >> > > Best,
> >> > > tison.
> >> > >
> >> > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Best regards,
> >> > >> PsiACE
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >> > >> > Hi,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >> > >> > members of the PMC[1].
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Best,
> >> > >> > tison.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >> > >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Xuanwo
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
I suggest initiating a vote at dev@o.a.o regarding the proposed consensus and encourage everyone to participate. All PPMC members must cast their votes, while committers are welcome to leave comments.
We can make sure all PPMC members presents their ideas on this consensus in this way.
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, at 15:06, tison wrote:
>> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
>> I am curious, why?
>
> I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
> graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
>>
>> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
>> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
>> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
>> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
>> I am curious, why?
>>
>> Sheng Wu 吴晟
>> Twitter, wusheng1108
>>
>> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
>> >
>> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
>> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
>> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>> >
>> > I'm ok with this.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
>> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
>> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
>> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>> > >
>> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
>> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
>> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
>> > >
>> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > tison.
>> > >
>> > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
>> > >>
>> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
>> > >>
>> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
>> > >>
>> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
>> > >>
>> > >> Best regards,
>> > >> PsiACE
>> > >>
>> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
>> > >> > Hi,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>> > >> > members of the PMC[1].
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Best,
>> > >> > tison.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>> > >> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Xuanwo
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> I am curious, why?
I agree that this is a concern that the PPMC is less active in the
graduation discussion and moving forward tasks.
Best,
tison.
Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2023年11月30日周四 14:46写道：
>
> I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
> The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
> over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
> But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
> I am curious, why?
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
> Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
> >
> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >
> > I'm ok with this.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> > > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> > >
> > > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> > > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> > > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
> > >
> > > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > tison.
> > >
> > > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
> > >>
> > >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
> > >>
> > >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
> > >>
> > >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >> PsiACE
> > >>
> > >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> > >> > members of the PMC[1].
> > >> >
> > >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> > >> >
> > >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> > >> >
> > >> > Best,
> > >> > tison.
> > >> >
> > >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> > >> >
> >
> > --
> > Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
I don't think we should follow lazy consensus for this very important thing.
The whole thing of graduation is about making sure the PMC is taking
over the oversight responsibilities from mentors.
But, currently, it seems rare they are going to say anything.
I am curious, why?
Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108
Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org> 于2023年11月29日周三 22:40写道：
>
> > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>
> I'm ok with this.
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> > I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> > among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> > structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
> >
> > This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> > We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> > contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
> >
> > If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
> >>
> >> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
> >>
> >> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
> >>
> >> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> PsiACE
> >>
> >> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> >> > members of the PMC[1].
> >> >
> >> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> >> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >> >
> >> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> >> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >> >
> >> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > tison.
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >> >
>
> --
> Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Xuanwo <xu...@apache.org>.
> I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
I'm ok with this.
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, at 09:15, tison wrote:
> I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
> among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
> structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
>
> This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
> We can regard this round as a chance to review our
> contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
>
> If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
>>
>> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
>>
>> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
>>
>> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> PsiACE
>>
>> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
>> > members of the PMC[1].
>> >
>> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
>> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>> >
>> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
>> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>> >
>> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > tison.
>> >
>> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>> >
--
Xuanwo
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
I'd resume this discussion. AFAICS, the lazy consensus for this topic
among the PPMC is mapping the current PPMC members and committers
structure to the graduated PMC members and committers structure.
This is doable and actually what Kvrocks does during its graduation.
We can regard this round as a chance to review our
contributors/committers and nominate them if desired.
If this is the consensus, we can make an explicit agreement.
Best,
tison.
Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org> 于2023年11月18日周六 21:16写道：
>
> I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
>
> Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
>
> This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
>
> Best regards,
> PsiACE
>
> On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> > members of the PMC[1].
> >
> > Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> > members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
> >
> > I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> > PMC unless there is a certain issue.
> >
> > And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
> >
> > Best,
> > tison.
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
> >
Re: [DISCUSS] For Gradution - Have an agreement on the members of the PMC
Posted by Chojan Shang <ps...@apache.org>.
I wholeheartedly endorse Xuanwo's perspective.
Let's promote actively involved committers as PMC members, recognizing their recent contributions. Instead of promoting committers solely based on our transition to TLP, let's emphasize their increased responsibilities and active involvement in project governance. This approach aligns with our commitment to fostering a culture of collaboration.
This move marks an exciting milestone in our path towards becoming a TLP.
Best regards,
PsiACE
On 2023/11/18 11:13:33 tison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here is a sub-object on the project graduation - Have an agreement on the
> members of the PMC[1].
>
> Generally, all members of the PPMC will be included in the TLP PMC. All
> members of the IPC will be invited to join the TLP PMC.
>
> I'll additionally suggest including all the current committers in the TLP
> PMC unless there is a certain issue.
>
> And this thread is to reach a consensus on the proposal above.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-opendal/issues/3616
>